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round two ... ding-ding

1970 -
1 - The 383-2bbl and Carter 383-4bbl engines share the same cam & valve springs.
2 - The Holley 383-4bbl & the 440HP 4bbl engines share the same cam, valve springs w/damper, & windage tray.

as I see it -
The orange 383 engines were for the "muscle-cars" in Plymouth "pony car" speak - the "'Cudas", for plenty of show -n- go!
----- ( you won't find any blue-383s as original equiptment in one! )

The blue 383 engines were for the "personal luxury cars" in Plymouth "pony car" speak - the "Gran Coupe", plenty of torque for the added weight of A/C and other options. 2bbl or 4bbl? How do you like to roll? The b'cast above (thanks Nigel) shows a BP with a 4-spd w/HOLLEY & orange "HP" engine.
----- ( who has a b'cast for a BP with N/auto, A/C & 3.55s? any HOLLEYs on there? )
----- ( who has a b'cast for a BP with N/auto & 3.91s? I bet we have HOLLEYs on there! )

That leaves the Barracuda with a 383 - any way you want it.
----- ( who has a b'cast for a BH with N/auto, A/C & 3.55s? any HOLLEYs on there? )
----- ( who has a b'cast for a BH with N/auto & 3.91s? I bet we have HOLLEYs on there! )



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I took a closer look at the FSM, yes, the 2bbl and 4bbl 383 B and J (E bodies) did share a cam. You are correct here. We are good there. The 383 4bbl for Dodge, Plymouth, Chrysler also had a separate cam, the 440HP cam's same part#. Slightly confusing here is the mention of Chrysler along with Dodge and Plymouth. I don't recall any Chrysler that got a Super Commando/Magnum/TNT 383 335hp engine in '70.

I also see 383 2bbl/4bbl springs are part#2658471 and 383 4bbl springs directly underneath are part#2658204. These must be the correct springs for 383HP. The 440HP springs are then carried over to all 1971 300hp 383's too.

I see no mention of springs w/dampers in FSM for 440HP, just springs, enlighten us all if you will please. I knew that street hemi springs had dampers. I'm 99.98% sure my engine has valve dampers in the springs. I'll inspect closer and maybe send pics when I get back this weekend. Carry me back to ole Virginia. TY

The windage tray was welded to the oil pan...yes? My original pan also has the windage tray. Unlike the modern Mopar trays that are separate items and sandwich between oil pan and block. Factory tray does not have its own part number. I can't find a windage tray anywhere in oil section, only an oil scrapper for front of crank for all 340, 383, 440, & 426. The 383 uses a different pan part #2532401 then the 440 and hemi that share a pan part #32951564 (7 qt v 6qt?). So the oil pan w/ welded windage tray would be found on all 383's then...either 290/330/335. Not just HP 335hp engines.

There is one Holley carb for 383 4bbl and H51: the R4369A - REF#45. Its for a 383 w/727, w/A/C, and w/o ECS. This should be the correct carb for a 335hp 'Cuda that was ordered with A/C if you are indeed correct. What you are saying is that it would not be blue, even when ordered with A/C because of the Holley carb. I think I can agree there too.

There is no 4bbl Carter carb listed at all for a 383 and 3 or 4speed, either w/A/C or w/o A/C. It seems only Holley supplied all carbs for all manual transmissions...So any BH/JH or BP and manual would be a 383HP by virtue of its Holley carb. We are also good here too. Whew!!

Is it the 3 digit engine code in line 4 of the BP 4 speed B-sheet that also convinces you it is an HP - forget the Holley carb for a moment for arguements sake. I can't make out either codes in the pic he posted for carb or engine, what are they, what do they say? One says 202 I think, is it Canadian? Whatever. Please explain further. TY

It seems the VIN line 4 code for engine would be 087 for 383HP and 086 as in mine for a non HP? If we can hear from you again on this oh great one, will be much abliged.

What still strikes me as odd and over looked.

The factory states N = 383HP and L = 383.

Mopars 70 FSM and 70-71 parts catalog never, repeat, never states L = 383 2bbl, never states that L = 383 330hp...just that L = 383. Period.

Remember guys that T = 440 and U = 440HP and V = 440 SxPK. There is a VIN distinction of either a T or a U for 440 and 440HP, then why not a VIN distinction for 383 and 383HP too? Think about it. I have for 15+ years now.

So why does everyone seem to not see like I can that L = 383(2&4bbl/330hp) and N = 383HP 335hp.

Dan, you said that the internals are different and makes too confusing when ordering parts, but if the 2 and 4 bbl 330hp share the same cam/springs there is no confusion. Cast vs forged crank, there is a maltese cross on 2bbl's block to aid mechanics. All the parts counter person needs to know for pistons is: (1) is it a 2 or 4 bbl 383, easy enough, just pop the hood if owner or parts counter person is in doubt. Its more confusing to go in and say you have a 383 4bbl and need a cam and they say "which do you have a 330hp or a 335hp. Easy enough if you could simply go to the the 5th digit in car's VIN and end any confusion as N may stand exclusively for 383HP. You'd quickly get the right cam installed. Think about it.

You supplied a list earlier, a list of carbs and engine colors. Were did you get this list if you don't mind, what is it, where can the rest of us get one. I've never seen it and it may be a GG issued document Galen found that is genuine Chrysler literature, or maybe he made the list of engine colors over the years of his research. Please explain, is it a factory service bulletin, what?

This list seems to dictate Holleys and orange paint verify HP383's and nothing else, no VIN distinction as the 3 different 440's (T, U, & V), so its very important to know. Customers weren't told or didn't know there was a broadcast sheet tucked under front seat, rear seat, or dash pad, or under front carpet, this was for assembly line workers not average car owner to produce to verify codes, some or most cars didn't even come with a b-sheet and some even had the wrong one. You need the VIN for help as it is readily visible and the fender tag has most options ordered on car for service replacement parts to be correct. GG said he started out reading fender tags for paint, not b-sheets! B-sheets only came about years later after cars were restored and seats and dash pads removed, years after.

I wonder now why Holley would get exclusive rights to all HP motors in any combo with A/C, ECS, shaker, etc. and even all w/out said featurs. For every Carter carb and combo, there was a Holley to match it, so all HP motors would never even need a Carter unless the factory ran out or supplies from Holley were delayed, only then would a Carter carb make it onto a 'Cuda or R/T, probably still painted orange though. Lol!

What was wrong with Carters carbs that they were totally excluded from all the HP 383's, which is either cold hard facts or your best educated guess and opinion. I'm starting to believe both are true and facts and not opinions.

I love it guys, you are the best. Surround your self with the best and you'll go where you want to be.




The windage tray was welded to the oil pan...yes?

I seriously doubt it.The scraper you speak of is the windage tray.pt.# 2863983.The 340 tray is listed first in the parts book along with the attaching bolts.Scraper = windage tray.Separate item,not welded to the pan.