How many N code BH27 Barracudas built

Posted By: ebodyseast

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/03/08 06:00 PM

GG had an article in a Mopar mag a few years back wherein he forecast his 'top ten' rarest E body conv's, the moulin rouge auto 318 made the top ten because of its rarity/desireability in color. Pink being more desireable over plain Jane EW1 white anyday of the week. This is off topic.

Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/03/08 06:24 PM

Quote:

GG had an article in a Mopar mag a few years back wherein he forecast his 'top ten' rarest E body conv's, the moulin rouge auto 318 made the top ten because of its rarity/desireability in color. Pink being more desireable over plain Jane EW1 white anyday of the week. This is off topic.

My God, the attitude continues.

Posted By: 62maxwgn

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/03/08 06:28 PM

Quote:

GG had an article in a Mopar mag a few years back wherein he forecast his 'top ten' rarest E body conv's, the moulin rouge auto 318 made the top ten because of its rarity/desireability in color. Pink being more desireable over plain Jane EW1 white anyday of the week. This is off topic.

Since when is the hobby based on one mans opinion?

Like the old saying,"everyone has one"!

Posted By: ebodyseast

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/03/08 07:29 PM

For everyone's info, I did apologize, not to Dan pesonally, so now, Dan, I do aplogize for being a moron and a horse's [Edited by Moparts - Keep it clean] for 'striking' out after maybe implying I am here to convince myself and others that my car is rarer than it actually may or may not be. I may have even insulted you as one member here said, again, many apologies, sincerely. are we good? I hope so. I respect any one that spends time researching Mopar. I forgot my respect last night and the members have come down hard on me and rightly so...basically runnin' me outta town.

That's not why I posted this question. It's quite obvious its not clear yet

, I have read many of the membes say they think, and then concede they think Dan is right, and he may be, GG costs too much to ask personally, he's the expert witness.

Now then, I stated, I use the 1970 factory service manual, the 1970 Mopar parts catalog, and 1970 Barracuda owner's manual to find my answers. I have researched for 19 years, maybe not as hard as others here. In this official factory literature, it states, the N code 383 is a HiPo in 5th VIN digit, and all others are L code. This only leaves two versions, the 2bbl and the 4bbl 330hp. This does it for me, the N in the VIN for engine is only used for one engine, the 335hp Road Runner engine from 1968. No one has convinced me otherwise that there are mutiple N code engines, that goes against everything Mopar printed in their factory literature! Why belive anyone but Mother Mopar.

All info I've ever seen states the 335hp 383 was standard on 'Cuda and Challenger. What members here are saying is a 'Cuda or R/T with an automatic didn't get a super commando/magnum engine. Wrong. For one, I have an article from a book 'Plymouth Barracuda' full of 1970 road tests by different magazines like Road and Track from Road test magazine June 1970 in where there is an automatic 383 'Cuda being tested and it has a SuperCommando pie tin and did the 1320 in 14.4 seconds @ 98.97 mph. Sounds like a hi po motor to me.

Think about it, why would they not install a HP motor in their two performance models, the Ebodies, just because customer ordered an automatic, that makes no sense. The carb certainly didn't give the extra 5 horses.

Also, break out a 1970 Mopar parts catalog if you have one handy. Fuel - section 14-11. The 383 4bbl automatic cars came with both Holleys and Carter's, it depends on shaker hood option, w/ECS, w/out ECS, a/c, no A/C as well as auto or manual (3 & 4 speeds). So there is another false statement provided by one member that only Carter's were installed on automatics. A 383 4BBL auto w/out A/C and w/out ECS came with either a Holley R4368A or a Carter 4732S, as is in my case, I got the Carter 4732S.

All 4bbl 383's had high compression 10.5 to 1 pistons, unless an export model. The 440HP cam and springs makes the extra 5 horses, not the Holly carb found on most 4 speeds.

So, what carb came on a 383 4bbl with a 3 speed? Depends on above.

My N code 383 does not have an HP stamped next to 383 on the pad near distributor hole. This too may be a clue. Always bothered me, kept me curious.

Why am I wrong in quoting Mopar literature directly that all 1970 N codes are HP 383 335hp, & all others (290hp/330hp) are L code? Don't blame the messenger! I'll believe my Mopar literature before believing anyone here or anywhere for that fact. You'd think that the added weight and power loss of the A/C would dictate the added 5 horses was neccessary.

Also, there were 59 2bbl E convs, but, there are also 59 total 4bbl's w/ 3, 4spd, and auto, combined, do the math, 118 total 383's built. It just so happens that adding 36 + 17 + 6 = 59 = the 59 2bbl as well = 118 total.

Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/03/08 07:51 PM

We're good.

last time around - '70 383 carbs

Dragging the BS & JS cars into the questions may ad confusion instead of clarity.
I'm sure there are orange HP 383s in BH & BP cars but not the majority.
I doubt there are blue non-HP 383s in BS cars, but never say never.

More to follow ... that "pesky" work thing getting in the way.

Posted By: hemi71

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/03/08 09:52 PM

I pulled out my 70 parts manual myself...looked to see what the difference was between a 330HP 383 and a 335HP 383 in model year 1970.

The book lists a piston for a 2 bbl motor, a .020 O/S piston for a 2 bbl motor, and a piston for a 4 bbl motor. Note no different pistons for the 4bbl motors in 1970. They also list special "low compression" pistons for export..no model year specified. BTW, compression on the 383 in 1970 was 9.7 to 1, not 10.5 to 1. Even in 1968, the 383 HP engine had 10 to 1 comp, not 10.5 to 1.The owners manual on a 70 B'cuda states 9.7 to 1 for the 4bbl, 8.5 to 1 for the 2bbl 383, and also there is no differentiation between a 330HP engine and a 335HP engine. They only list a 383 2bbl and a 383 4bbl in the owners manual.

The cams have what looks like two listings...a 4 bbl cam with a .05 raised ring, and a 4bbl cam with out raised ring. Maybe someone can check in as to what this "raised ring" reference means?

As has been stated, the carbs are pretty specific to options, etc..on whether you got a Holley or a Carter. No mention of any 383 335hp or 330HP anywhere. No mention of a 383 4bbl NON-hi performance version engine there. Could a carb difference make a 5 HP difference? YES!

I looked thru the factory service manual to see if there was any different cam specs listed for the 383 4 bbl in 1970. The cam specs only show a 4bbl version, and a 2 bbl version. NO mention of any different cam specs for 4 bbl engines. One set of specs for 2bbl versions, one set for 4bbl versions.

I looked at the front of the FSM for the VIN decode...what it says is L=383 and N=383HP. Now seeing that there is no reference to any different 383 4bbl motors in either the FSM or parts book, it's obvious that the L or N in the VIN refers to a 383 2 bbl motor as a L code, and the 383 4bbl motor as a N code. So all 4 bbl 383's in 1970 are HP motors.

Why would ma Mopar have a VIN desigination of L equal either a 383 2bbl engine, or a 383 4 bbl engine? Those two engines have MANY external differences, IE...carbs, intake and exhaust manifolds, air cleaners, etc (not to mention the internal differences I show above)..that would cause WAY too much confusion when ordering parts.

So, is there a 335HP and a 330HP 383 in 1970 model year? From what i can see in the parts and service manuals, just a marketing ploy if anything. If i have some time, I'll research the 68 and 69 parts books i have to see if two different versions of a 383 4 bbl engine show up.

I just did a little further research as to heads/valves in 1970 383 4 bbls. looks like there are some differences in valve sizes on 383's in the non-performance car engines ( C bodies )but in the B and E body cars, all the 4bbl valves and heads are the same. Same with valve springs also, there are different versions for performance oriented car lines ( B and E ), and a different spring for the C bodies. No different springs amongst a car line. So, seeing this...there was a different 4 bbl 383, but it was used in the C bodies, and not mixed in like model lines. So there seems to be more here than just marketing, but different 4bbl 383's were not used from what i can see in the same model.

One more thing...what code on a broadcast sheet calls out a 383 4 bbl non-HP motor? E63 = 383 4 bbl HP, and E61 = 383 2bbl. Where is the 383 4 bbl without the HP designation?

Posted By: 69CoronetRT

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/03/08 09:56 PM

I have a feeling I'm going to regret this.....

Quote:

That's not why I posted this question. The answer to your question has been posted. It's quite obvious its not clear yet , I have read many of the membes say they think, and then concede they think Dan is right, and he may be, GG costs too much to ask personally, he's the expert witness. GG is not the only person qualifed to speak on Mopars. He's just very visible and published. While he's acknowledged as a great source of info and respected for compiling a ton of useful information, his works and statments are know to contain errors.

Now then, I stated, I use the 1970 factory service manual, the 1970 Mopar parts catalog, and 1970 Barracuda owner's manual to find my answers. I have researched for 19 years, maybe not as hard as others here. In this official factory literature, it states, the N code 383 is a HiPo in 5th VIN digit, and all others are L code. This only leaves two versions, the 2bbl and the 4bbl 330hp. This does it for me, the N in the VIN for engine is only used for one engine, the 335hp Road Runner engine from 1968. No one has convinced me otherwise that there are mutiple N code engines, that goes against everything Mopar printed in their factory literature! Why belive anyone but Mother Mopar. The 70 N code is an administrative code that only indicates the car has a 383-4bbl. It does not tell you which version, HP or non HP, engine the car recieved. Only the broadcast sheet, or the tag on a Lynch Road built car, can verify which assembly the car car recieved

All info I've ever seen states the 335hp 383 was standard on 'Cuda and Challenger. What members here are saying is a 'Cuda or R/T with an automatic didn't get a super commando/magnum engine. That's not what has been said. Installation of the HP engine in some models was contingent on tranny. A/C is another component that affects whether or not the car got an HP engine. Wrong. For one, I have an article from a book 'Plymouth Barracuda' full of 1970 road tests by different magazines like Road and Track from Road test magazine June 1970 in where there is an automatic 383 'Cuda being tested and it has a SuperCommando pie tin and did the 1320 in 14.4 seconds @ 98.97 mph. Sounds like a hi po motor to me.

Think about it, why would they not install a HP motor in their two performance models, the Ebodies, just because customer ordered an automatic, that makes no sense. The carb certainly didn't give the extra 5 horses. The auto tranny did not affect which engine a 'Cuda recieved.

Also, break out a 1970 Mopar parts catalog if you have one handy. Fuel - section 14-11. The 383 4bbl automatic cars came with both Holleys and Carter's, it depends on shaker hood option, w/ECS, w/out ECS, a/c, no A/C as well as auto or manual (3 & 4 speeds). So there is another false statement provided by one member that only Carter's were installed on automatics. A 383 4BBL auto w/out A/C and w/out ECS came with either a Holley R4368A or a Carter 4736S, as is in my case, I got the Carter 4736S.

All 4bbl 383's had high compression 10.5 to 1 pistons, unless an export model. The 440HP cam and springs makes the extra 5 horses, not the Holly carb found on most 4 speeds.

So, what carb came on a 383 4bbl with a 3 speed? Depends on above.

My N code 383 does not have an HP stamped next to 383 on the pad near distributor hole. This too may be a clue. Always bothered me, kept me curious. If anything, there is difinitve proof your car is not an HP car and that N does not equal HP

Why am I wrong in quoting Mopar literature directly that all 1970 N codes are HP 383 335hp, & all others (290hp/330hp) are L code? Because that info is incorrect even if it is from Chrysler. Don't blame the messenger! I'll believe my Mopar literature before believing anyone here or anywhere for that fact. Then you will miss out on A LOT of very interesting information on this Board. Mopar issued publications that contain known errors or have been found to not be entirely correct. If you believe everything published by Mopar is absolutly, entirely and without question 100% correct is to do so at your own risk. You'd think that the added weight and power loss of the A/C would dictate the added 5 horses was neccessary.

Also, there were 59 2bbl E convs, but, there are also 59 total 4bbl's w/ 3, 4spd, and auto, combined, do the math, 118 total 383's built. It just so happens that adding 36 + 17 + 6 = 59 = the 59 2bbl as well = 118 total.

My suggestion is to relax a little, pop a top on a cold drink, sit back, and read some of the posts by folks like Dan, Nigel and Randy. I think you'll find out how truly amazing some of these members are in their depth and breadth of knowledge and the resources they have at their fingertips. (plus they'll do it for free) There are some of the best e-body guys in the world on this site. You could learn a lot from them if you want...

Posted By: cudaized

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/03/08 10:17 PM

Quote:

Also, there were 59 2bbl E convs, but, there are also 59 total 4bbl's w/ 3, 4spd, and auto, combined, do the math, 118 total 383's built.

Nick,
Yes, you are correct in those figures. These are the totals for the Built for USA Specifications.
To date, I have the following cars in the 1970-71 E-Body Convertible Registry:
BH27N0B - 383 4 bbl engine USA specs
D13 3-speed .... 1 car
D21 4-speed .... 3 cars
D32 Automatic . 7 cars
Trans unknown . 1 car
--------------------------
Total .............. 12 cars
As per Scheduled Build Date, your car is the second to last one that I have in the Registry.

BH27L0B - 383 2 bbl engine USA specs
Automatic ....... 14 cars

These cars are included in the Registry. I do have several more to add. Perhaps as many as 9 cars.

Send me an e-mail and we can discuss the Registry. I do not visit moparts.com that often. We haven't e-mailed since 98 and it would be good to talk about your convertible.

Ola Nilsson

cudaized@cudaized.com

Posted By: ebodyseast

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/03/08 10:20 PM

Quote:

Sounds like you own a really rare and cool car.

The "N" code and E63 on the fender tag only tell you the car came with a 383-4bbl; it does not tell you which version, 330 horse or 335 horse, the car actually recieved. Many sources incorrectly list the 68 and 69 H code and the 70 N code as the HP version of the 383.

You need the broadcast sheet to know which engine assembly was installed.

"L" is the code for the 2bbl 383. I don't think I've seen a source that lists the "L" code for a 383-4bbl 330 horse car.

------------------------------------------
Thanks for the great comments, it seems my manners were left at the door.

Do you also consider official 1970 Plymouth service manuals and official Mopar 1970-71 parts catalogs to be among the sources you 'know' that have incorrectly stated that N is a wrong code letter for 1970 HP 383 335hp?

If not an N, then what letter do you say your prayers to every night? If you were president of Chrysler in 1970...what code would you give the HP motors to differentiate to assembly workers that a 4 door Fury should never get a 'Cuda or R/T's V8? Its tantamount to saying that a 1970 R/T Chally got a 350hp 440 station wagon motor. Lol!!

'Cuda and Challenger were performance models, not 4 door grocery getters. They may have only gotten Hi Po motors installed, no two barrels, the Magnum and Super Commando engines and one hot 340. I like that, never say never, who am I to say. Don't you guys have the same Mopar factory books I do, why do you see it differently?

If one letter, N in this case, was designated for a HP engine, then all others naturally fall under a different letter, in this case, Mopar would give the 2bbl and non-performance 330hp 4bbl's the letter L. Non-performance 383 = L in VIN's 5th place. Just like a 440/440HP/440sxpk (T, U, V)

Also, I've never seen one source that lists a non-performance 330hp 383 as an N code!! Mopar sources state N is 383HiPerformance in 1970...only. Read...only. N = HiPerformance -nothing else, no other motors included. Why so hard to understand?

The sales code was E63, N codes installed into E Body - L code 330hp 4bbl into C body, B body 4 door, etc. Same with 440, non-performance engines installed into grocery getter, 375hp HiPo for all 'Cuda's and R/T's, GTX, etc. That is simple enough, keeps the non-optional Magnum engines from ending up in a 4 door Satellite.

Why would the N represent 383 4bbl's as a whole. The E63 was given to do just that - they didn't need to offer two distinctions, N and E63, did they?!?! Think about it before replying guys.

There were E61 L code 383 2bbl's, and E63 L code 383 4bbl non-HP 330 hp motors (most destined for 4 doors and the like.) Who agrees? Nobody here agrees?!?!

Posted By: hemicar1971

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/03/08 11:04 PM

I have worked in Automotive Production most of my life and still do. The way a line worker knows how to put a motor on the line would be to look at the build. This would be done in 1970 by looking at the broadcast sheet and seeing what number that is assigned to this S/O and VIN and go to the location that number is assigned and pick the motor up from that location and move it to the line and put it on the conveyor or other mech. 1971 Hemis are coded E74 but on the line they are coded diffently either 407 or 408 and this is on the Hamtramic Broadcast Sheets.

Back to the "N" code for a motor. N is to reference to a 383 4 barrel motor. The plant then decides if it gets what "N" motor via the difference already preset in the build.(AIR ETC) So getting back to the beginning of the post that Dan posted it all depends on what options were ordered on the car and then the Broadcast sheet would varify the motor with the code for the motor that would be put in the car.This number would corespond to the number on the broadcast sheet and then you either get a 5 extra horses or not.

As for Galen and his list,he can stuff it in the garbage.That is only one mans opinion of what RARE is and this has been stated before,sometimes rare does not mean desirable because only one person ordered a certain car does not mean anyone would want it. Forget that Galen list we all have are own lists of what rare is and with my Challenger it is still one of one with the options it has, big deal.Be happy you own one.

Posted By: ebodyseast

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/03/08 11:12 PM

Wow...thanks guys.

I too scanned my 70-71 Mopar parts catalog and found these same anomolies. I would agree that all 383's in 1970 were HiPo 335 hp only if they share same 9.7 to 1 pistons & had the same part# 440HP cam/lifters, same 440HP valve springs. I'm surely reading the FSM wrong!

BTW - I quoted my Road Test magazine June 1970 article when posting 10.5 to 1 compression earlier - should have checked my FSM first.

Painting the engine blue or orange, what's the significance? Does A/C dictate or does Holley carb or does Tranny or a combo of above? Must be combo. Interesting topic. My engine is blue, has A/C, has Carter 4732S, has 727 auto, for the record, dual exhaust without cutouts and tips.

I will say a motor should have been stamped with HP or HP2 on its pad, maybe not all were stamped, mine surely isn't.

Posted By: beepbeep

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/03/08 11:18 PM

Quote:

Also since the car was a N95 California car it originally had the turn down exhaust which I changed

It has nothing to do with California emissions. No JH car with the exception of the A66 ever came with rear exit bright tips.

Posted By: beepbeep

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/03/08 11:19 PM

Quote:

Wow...you guys are the best, I knew I came to the right place for answers. I'll leave my opinions of GG at the door with my cockey attitude from now on.

I am totally seeing the bigger picture here. I too scanned my 70-71 Mopar parts catalog and found these same anomolies. I think I can agree that all 383's in 1970 were HiPo 335 hp. They all had the same 9.7 to 1 pistons had the same part # 440HP cam/lifters, same color coded valve springs, same oil pan w/ factory windage tray, etc.(BTW - I quoted my Road Test maazine June 1970 article when posting 10.5 to 1 compression earlier - should have checked my FSM first, oh no, one member is right that the factory literature is not always 100% correct)

Painting the engine blue or orange, what's the significance? Does A/C dictate or does Holley carb or does Tranny or a combo of above? Interesting topic. My engine is blue, has A/C, has Carter 4732S, has 727 auto, for the record, dual exhaust without cutouts and tips.

I'd like to hear back from the few members that stated I do not have an HP motor in their educated opinions...

I will say a motor should have been stamped with HP or HP2 on its pad, maybe not all were stamped, mine surely isn't.

I'm not exactly sure if L code is 2bbl only, neither is Dan, so you guys can argue, I'm done...to have that cold-one a member suggested earlier. (applause from crowd)

Confirms my decision to stop posting.

Posted By: Danan

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/03/08 11:27 PM

Rarity+high demand=Desirability

Just because a car (or other item) is 'rare' does not mean it is necessarily desirable. Many people confuse the two. A BS cuda will, all things being equal, be more desirable than a BH car. In fact, a rough cuda will always sell for more than a cleaner barracuda.

I have a 70 challenger (N code) that is a rallye hood away from being an R/T. But at the end of the day, the RT will always be more valuable/desirable than my car. If it really bothered me, I'd sell my car and buy an R/T.

Interestingly, a super bee is generally more desirable than a Coronet R/T, even though you get a bigger engine in the R/T! This is true to a lesser degree with road runners and GTXs as well.

My suggestion is to ignore the numbers and have fun with your car. It sounds like a winner to me!

Posted By: Mastershake340

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/03/08 11:50 PM

My JH27N0B code Challenger 'vert is rarer, production wise than an JS27N0B R/T, but never has and probably never will be as desirable. In fact I've only seen pictures of a couple other stock ones, mine's the only one I have seen in person, that I know about. That's because most, and most BH27N0B Barracudas, have been dressed up do look like R/T's and cudas.
Mine is a 330 hp automatic AC car, same engine as used in many other '70 Mopars like Furys and Coronets. Not the 335 hp motor, but I'm not sure why that would worth worrying about?
I like being having a car that's a little unusual, even if the crowds at the shows and cruises are drawn to the hood scooped and striped examples!

Posted By: Mastershake340

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/03/08 11:55 PM

Quote:

I have a JH Challenger Convertible with N code, I will pull the build sheet tonight and post those codes. I am curious, hopefully someone can tell us what they mean. I also have the original carb 4218 Holley with N95 on the car. I went through the same thing before starting the resto, and decided to keep it original instead of another R/T clone.

Nice! What's the SPD of your car? Mine's 11-24 and I know of another similiarly well optioned JH27N0B car a few VIN's away from mine built the same day. Makes me wonder if any more were built the same day as these two?

Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/04/08 12:22 AM

Quote:

Rarity+high demand=Desirability

Just because a car (or other item) is 'rare' does not mean it is necessarily desirable. Many people confuse the two. A BS cuda will, all things being equal, be more desirable than a BH car. In fact, a rough cuda will always sell for more than a cleaner barracuda.

I have a 70 challenger (N code) that is a rallye hood away from being an R/T. But at the end of the day, the RT will always be more valuable/desirable than my car. If it really bothered me, I'd sell my car and buy an R/T.

Interestingly, a super bee is generally more desirable than a Coronet R/T, even though you get a bigger engine in the R/T! This is true to a lesser degree with road runners and GTXs as well.

My suggestion is to ignore the numbers and have fun with your car. It sounds like a winner to me!

Right on Danan! Well said. Couldn't agree more, yet the obvious (to me anyway) is not so obvious to others. Oh well.

Posted By: RoadRunnerJD

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/04/08 12:26 AM

I think his second post at 4:something dark thirty AM was an appology of a sort. In any case the 383 4 bbl A/C cars all had blue 330 HP engines B and E body cars 69 & 70 and were not stamped HP. I believe it had a different cam because of the A/C? I don't know about 71's? I have a 69 4 speed Barracuda fastback with A/C. Apparently they did not list different horse power ratings for the 340's with A/C and non A/C. I guess that means my 340 with A/c is an HP and your 383 with A/C is a non HP.

Does it really matter. It's a cool car. When you rebuild it, just change the rear ratio, add a little cam and blue print it a little and fool those 335 HP guys with your blue A/C engine sleeper!

Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/04/08 12:30 AM

He seems to be an odd duck that thinks the world should lick his feet because he has a white on white barracuda!?! It would take a LOT more than that for me to think I was that great!!!

Posted By: RoadRunnerJD

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built DELETED - 04/04/08 12:40 AM

Post deleted by RoadRunnerJD

Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/04/08 01:09 AM

Here's one I helped my uncle restore back in 1990, seems like yesterday! BH27N car.

Attached picture 4328611-70GranCoupeFront.jpg

Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/04/08 01:10 AM

rear

Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/04/08 01:11 AM

Side

Attached picture 4328613-GranCoupeInterior2A.jpg

Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/04/08 01:11 AM

Dash

Attached picture 4328615-GranCoupeInterior1A2.jpg

Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/04/08 01:20 AM

engine

Posted By: Furyman

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/04/08 01:31 AM

Scott..your uncles car is nice but its a BP27N0B car i think

Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/04/08 01:32 AM

Scott ... Any b'cast numbers for ENG & CARB?

Posted By: formula_s

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/04/08 01:46 AM

Quote:

Why belive anyone but Mother Mopar.

Now there's a naive statement if there ever was one. Chrylser published literature is full of contradictions. I have parts books that show cars that Chrysler NEVER made. You need to stop reading so much.

Posted By: Diego (not Ted)

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/04/08 01:58 AM

Regarding the pink Barracuda 318 car that keeps on being mentioned . . . the deal is that US records show 1 FM3 Gran Coupe ragtop being built. It survives, and if it couldn't be any more special enough, it's a 318 4-speed - an interesting combination.

I don't think this has been clarified yet, but if it has, my apologies . . . there's a lot of confusion with the hp ratings and what was installed. A lot of the confusion is related to the advertised hp for a respective model.

For example, Barracuda N-code cars received 330hp engines according to the ads. 'Cudas, due to their special status as the performance version of the Barracuda, received 335hp engines. However, the assembly line dictated things that would contradict this, and the buyer was not aware of this.

So, for example, if you bought a Barracuda with an N-code engine and a 4-speed, you got the 335hp engine even though it was advertised at 330hp - kinda a step up. And if you got the 'Cuda with an auto and AC, you received the 330hp engine even though the car was advertised with the 335hp engine. It was not unusual for companies to downgrade engines a bit when equipped with AC (I know the GTO 400HO received a different cam if it had AC, and the buyer was not aware of this), but the fact that a base car like a Barracuda could have an engine slightly better than advertised is unusual.

If I've mixed something up, please correct this grasshopper's post.

Posted By: Furyman

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/04/08 01:59 AM

Hey...Ebodyeast...no disrespect but you must have been playing hooky cruising in your white bomb when the Ma Mopar Decode Class 101 was running.In 69 an L code was a 440/375 A/B/C option.In 1970 an L code was a 383/290 2bbl B/C/E option.In 1970 an N Code was a 383/330 or 383/335 B/C/E option.Station wagons (C) in 68/9/70 did not use a 440/350 horse engine but a 440/365 horse 4 bbl/dual ex,dual snorkel STND camshaft engine.

Posted By: ebodyseast

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/04/08 03:15 AM

Many thanks to you and most all others for time on this topic. A few are only here to help bash me some more, the new meat - I did deserve it at first, but only so much will I tolerate, u guys will just have to understand. I can't take back what I wrote, but I'll aplogize no more. I did and still do apologize to any and all I have wrongly offended, and as a new member I have earned zero respect and most all ensuing hostile comments. I took what Dan said the wrong way and have been put in my rightful place...for now. I need to start earning some respect. Most here have quickly earned mine. Others, the night is still young here in Cali.

Some of you though are all over the place with this. You say it, but where did some of you guys get your info, decode 101...no disrespect

Some seem quick to agree just to help bash the new guy. Its cool.

I've used the PFSM for my decode info and said so. So where did you guys get this knowledge? Is it something you know for fact or something you heard. Dan is correct to ask anyone with a surviving example to provide build sheet info to get to the bottom, I provided my B-cast info without hesitation.

To order a replacement cam for a 1970 383 4bbl using the factory part # you'll get a 440HP cam. To order valve springs for a 1970 383 4bbl using factory part #, again, you get 440HP valve springs delivered. These were the two main ingredients that gave birth to a legend in 1968 in the Road Runner 383 engine 335hp and new for '68 440 heads. I think hemi71 touched on something when stating every 383 in 1970 may be HP except those going into a C Body, according to his research of the FSM.

From the info provided earlier, every blue 1970 383 was 330hp. Every orange was 335hp. But, has anyone ever seen a 1970 'Cuda BS23 OR BS27 with A/C and auto with anything but an orange motor?

One way to clarify would be to find an owner with either a BH27LOB/BP27LOB/JH27LOB 4bbl car, most all here say they don't exist, or they think they don't exist, or they think they know. I still believe they do...but only if N = HP only.

Maybe the engines in 68 and 69 were 330hp/335hp, but by 1970 maybe Mopar found it easier to make them all with one cam and same 440HP springs and dropped the 330hp version altogether as in 1971 all 383's were HP 300hp lower compression...yes? That would mean no one here is correct yet. I never claimed to know for a fact, I quoted my Mopar literature directly.

Thanks for accepting my apology to those that have...

Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/04/08 03:24 AM

OK, I'll back off. apologies accepted Mr. Vanilla B. Vert! (Get it? GREAT NICKNAME huh????) As an owner of a BS23N car I took interest. ANY e-body vert is a cool car. I wish I owned one. Peace, we're e-quals.

Posted By: ebodyseast

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/04/08 03:54 AM

Thanks a ton pacnorthcuda, you don't know me but it feels great right now to have some forgiveness for past wrong doings from one's peers. So, let me guess, you have an orange 383 in your BS23N? And maybe you also won't mind saying if it has an HP or HP2 stamped anywhere on the engine pad near distributor hole? Thanks again bro.

One thing I noticed in all of this.

One person said they had an 087 in line 4 of b-cast sheet. Mine is 086. Here must be the final answer. The logic however is eluding us. Why rob a customer of 5 hp when A/C is installed when the A/C robs us of even more hp and adds weight?

Were 335hp engines on assembly line 087...and 330hp were 086. If so, then that wasn't so hard.

Where does one get the breakdown info for engine assembly codes on line 4 to decipher the difference between 086 and 087 on b-cast sheet.

If I had the ability to decipher every code in Lines 3 and 4 on VIN info years ago when I found the broadcast sheet I could have helped set the facts straight long ago.

Most of line 3 and 4 VIN codes are simply the last few digits of the factory designated part numbers...easy enough to decode with a parts catalog. Yet engine codes are not found there when orering a replacement engine short block.

Thanks again bro!

Posted By: Diego (not Ted)

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/04/08 03:54 AM

You might as well forget about it - the L is a 383-2!

Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/04/08 03:57 AM

Yea, it was a BP (gran coupe) car, typo sorry

Posted By: Furyman

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/04/08 04:14 AM

Heres a nicely optioned 71 L code 2bbl canukian car

Oh ya...buddy that bought this car traded in a 69 340 GTS hardtop....dealer allowed $2500 on trade.

Attached picture 4329215-HPIM2762.JPG

Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/04/08 04:22 AM

Quote:

Scott ... Any b'cast numbers for ENG & CARB?

No Dan, it was a fender tag only car, no engine, no trans, no sheet. VIN, cowl, core, and fender tag all matched though. It was a well optioned "Luxo Vert"

Posted By: Furyman

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/04/08 04:23 AM

A 383/330 N code ....nicely optioned

Attached picture 4329241-HPIM2763.JPG

Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/04/08 04:27 AM

I seem to have posted something that is still confusing?

I just went thru the whole thread looking for another Dan.

(but he's "ph23v0" & hasn't chimed in, yet)

WHAT I KNOW:
1 - all 1970 "L"/E61 code 383s are 2bbl & are painted blue.
2 - all 1970 "N"/E63 code 383s are 4bbl.
3 - all 1970 4bbl 383s painted blue have a CARTER carb and a 330hp rating.
4 - all 1970 4bbl 383s painted orange have a HOLLEY carb and a 335hp rating.
5 - all 1970 4bbl 383s are NOT HP engines.

Any arguements/disagreements on the above 5 items?

Posted By: Furyman

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/04/08 04:29 AM

And a 383/335 N Code on a 69 Broadcast

Attached picture 4329253-HPIM2764.JPG

Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/04/08 04:50 AM

Quote:

2 - all 1970 "N"/E63 code 383s are 4bbl.
3 - all 1970 4bbl 383s painted blue have a CARTER carb and a 330hp rating.
4 - all 1970 4bbl 383s painted orange have a HOLLEY carb and a 335hp rating.

Back when I was working on the blue car I wasn't sure about those details so I asked Galen what the car should have for an engine color and carb (since the engine was MIA with no BS or photo history on the car). He said that "N" code 383 cars with AC had blue 383's with Holley carbs so that's what we searched out and used. Doesn't matter anyway, it was sold in 93, probably has a Shaker hood and a Hemi by now anyway

Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/04/08 04:57 AM

Quote:

Heres a nicely optioned 71 L code 2bbl canukian car Oh ya...buddy that bought this car traded in a 69 340 GTS hardtop....dealer allowed $2500 on trade.

Check out the wheels -
W23 - CAST/STYLED ROAD WHEELS

October of '69 & "recall wheels" showing up on paperwork (paperwork ONLY-not on car) instead of the '70 "chrome road wheels". More than a year after the "recall".

Posted By: ebodyseast

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/04/08 04:58 AM

No arguements here Dan. None. Thanks a million for taking time on this. Too cool.

One question. One.
Do you feel it is the Holley carb that deserves credit for the xtra 5hp in 1970. All Mopar books state the extra 5 horses comes from the 440HP's cam/springs, not the Holley carb install.

Was it a marketing scheme by Mopar? You can't feel the 5 horses, who would ever know the difference. Most owners like me probably just assumed they had a HP motor from VIN's 5th digit of N.

TY everyone. Loved seeing the '70 yellow GC...and the b5 conv GC pics.

Posted By: ebodyseast

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built DELETED - 04/04/08 05:05 AM

Post deleted by ebodyseast

Posted By: Furyman

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/04/08 05:07 AM

I have the remains of a 68 Sport Satellite convert 383/330 auto.Weird car...10" drums,no sway bar,3.23 open triple green.It has no HP stamped on block and standard valve spring with no dampner.

Posted By: Furyman

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/04/08 05:13 AM

Ya strange about the W23....the tentative billing from Sept mentions Cast Road Wheels only

Posted By: ebodyseast

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/04/08 05:43 AM

Have a look guys, I may have made enemies talking about it.

You'll notice first the white convertible top was replaced by former owner in 1984...with black

Next, you can't miss the after market passenger RH side plasti-chrome mirror and his friend on LH side too!! This car came w/ standard non-remote chrome mirror. Must have fallen off!!!! Lol!

You can't make out - but under the Barracuda script on both fenders, factory correct '383 four barrel' emblems reside directly underneath.

Also, grille was painted black by a former owner, looks cool, but not correct.

What can I say guys...she's my baby, and I'll defend her against all shi**ers! Lol! (from the movie Christine) None here that I've seen.

For an East coast car, she's like 95% rust free, best condition E body I ever saw to buy. I bought a 1970 Conv Challenger from my neighbor 5 houses down a year after buying this one. It sat in his yard since I was a kid, since 1978. Oh was she a rotten, green 318 Chally vert. Sold her and my first car, a non-Mopar purple '71 318 Gran Coupe at Carlisle one year mid 90's. I should have saved her in '87 when I got my license. Waited too long, din't know she was special till I bought the Barracuda. Then I was like...hey, what about the conv green machine w/ four flat tires and a snake living in the trunk and an inch of water in floor pans from top ripped open.

When I was a kid my next door neighbor had a 1970 GTX. It was rotten, beat up, and in primer, even in 1978. His mother asked if I wanted to buy the 1970 440HP that was left in the garage since '78 when it was towed away for junk for $100 and jumped on it. Never could figure why an 8 year old car was in such bad shape.

My first love in 1986 - a guy down the street had a blue '68 Road Runner original owner, says he should have bought one w/ a hemi, yeah pop, ya think! Wanted more than a 16 year old could afford working at Hardies. Every year he wanted more.

The baddest ride in this area of NoVa was a plum crazy 1970 Road Runner hemi w/ 4 spd pistol - it's said to have sold for $5000 right after I bought the Barracuda for $4250. I almost cried. Its the closest I've ever come to owning greatness guys...the BH27NOB is all I got now.

Attached picture 4329365-005_5.JPG

Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/04/08 06:08 AM

round two ... ding-ding

1970 -
1 - The 383-2bbl and Carter 383-4bbl engines share the same cam & valve springs.
2 - The Holley 383-4bbl & the 440HP 4bbl engines share the same cam, valve springs w/damper, & windage tray.

as I see it -
The orange 383 engines were for the "muscle-cars" in Plymouth "pony car" speak - the "'Cudas", for plenty of show -n- go!
----- ( you won't find any blue-383s as original equiptment in one! )

The blue 383 engines were for the "personal luxury cars" in Plymouth "pony car" speak - the "Gran Coupe", plenty of torque for the added weight of A/C and other options. 2bbl or 4bbl? How do you like to roll? The b'cast above (thanks Nigel) shows a BP with a 4-spd w/HOLLEY & orange "HP" engine.
----- ( who has a b'cast for a BP with N/auto, A/C & 3.55s? any HOLLEYs on there? )
----- ( who has a b'cast for a BP with N/auto & 3.91s? I bet we have HOLLEYs on there! )

That leaves the Barracuda with a 383 - any way you want it.
----- ( who has a b'cast for a BH with N/auto, A/C & 3.55s? any HOLLEYs on there? )
----- ( who has a b'cast for a BH with N/auto & 3.91s? I bet we have HOLLEYs on there! )

Posted By: ebodyseast

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/04/08 07:21 AM

Quote:

round two ... ding-ding

1970 -
1 - The 383-2bbl and Carter 383-4bbl engines share the same cam & valve springs.
2 - The Holley 383-4bbl & the 440HP 4bbl engines share the same cam, valve springs w/damper, & windage tray.

as I see it -
The orange 383 engines were for the "muscle-cars" in Plymouth "pony car" speak - the "'Cudas", for plenty of show -n- go!
----- ( you won't find any blue-383s as original equiptment in one! )

The blue 383 engines were for the "personal luxury cars" in Plymouth "pony car" speak - the "Gran Coupe", plenty of torque for the added weight of A/C and other options. 2bbl or 4bbl? How do you like to roll? The b'cast above (thanks Nigel) shows a BP with a 4-spd w/HOLLEY & orange "HP" engine.
----- ( who has a b'cast for a BP with N/auto, A/C & 3.55s? any HOLLEYs on there? )
----- ( who has a b'cast for a BP with N/auto & 3.91s? I bet we have HOLLEYs on there! )

That leaves the Barracuda with a 383 - any way you want it.
----- ( who has a b'cast for a BH with N/auto, A/C & 3.55s? any HOLLEYs on there? )
----- ( who has a b'cast for a BH with N/auto & 3.91s? I bet we have HOLLEYs on there! )

----------------------------------------------

I took a closer look at the FSM, yes, the 2bbl and 4bbl 383 B and J (E bodies) did share a cam. You are correct here. The 383 4bbl for Dodge, Plymouth, Chrysler also had a separate cam, the 440HP cam's same part#. Bingo.

I also see 383 2bbl/4bbl springs are part#2658471 and 383 4bbl springs directly underneath are part#2658204. These must be the correct springs for 383HP. The 440HP springs are then carried over to all 1971 300hp 383's too. BTW - All 1971 383 4bbl are HP, SO THERE IS NO CONFUSION. Confusion exists in 1968-70 383 4BBLS & the A/C cars adds to it.

I see no mention of springs w/dampers in FSM for 440HP. I knew that street hemi springs had dampers. I'm 99.999% sure my engine has valve dampers in the springs. I'll inspect closer.

The windage tray was welded to the oil pan...yes? Unlike the modern Mopar trays that are separate items and sandwich between oil pan and block. Factory tray does not have its own part number. I can't find a windage tray anywhere in oil section, only an oil scraper for front of crank for all 340, 383, 440, & 426. The 383 has different pan then the 440 and hemi that share a pan. So the oil pan & windage tray would be found on all 383HP/335hp engines.

There is one Holley carb for 383 4bbl and H51 a/c: the R4369A - FSM REF#45. Its for a 383 w/727, w/A/C, and w/o ECS. This should be one of two or three correct carbs for a 335hp 'Cuda that was ordered with A/C. What you are saying is that it would not be blue, even when ordered with A/C because of the Holley carb. I think I can agree there too. A/C may not have dictated engine color, but may have dictated hp ratings.

There is no 4bbl Carter carb listed at all for a 383 and 3 or 4 spd, either w/A/C or w/o A/C. It seems only Holley supplied all carbs for all manual transmissions...So any BH/JH or BP and manual would be a 383HP by virtue of its Holley carb. Maybe, lets see a BCS or two surface to clear it up.

Is it the 3 digit engine code (087)of the BP 4 speed B-sheet that also convinces you it is an HP - forget the Holley carb code for a moment for arguements sake.

It seems the VIN line 4 code for 'Cuda engine would be 087 or other (088/089?) for 383HP and 086 or other (084/085?) for 330hp. If we can hear from you again on this oh great one, will be much abliged.

What still strikes me as odd and over looked.

The factory states N = 383HP and L = 383.

Mopars 70 FSM and 70-71 parts catalog never, repeat, never states L = 383 2bbl, never states that L = 383 330hp...just that L = 383. Period.

Remember guys that T = 440 and U = 440HP and V = 440 SxPK. There is a VIN distinction of either a T or a U for 440 and 440HP, then why not a VIN distinction for 383 and 383HP too?

So why does everyone seem to not see like I can that L = 383(2&4bbl/330hp) and N = 383HP 335hp.

6bblgt said that the internals are different and makes too confusing when ordering parts, but if the 2 and 4 bbl 330hp share the same cam/springs there is little confusion. Cast vs forged crank, there is a maltese cross on 2bbl's block to aid mechanics. All the parts counter person needs to know for pistons is: (1) is it a 2 or 4 bbl 383, easy enough, just pop the hood if owner or parts counter person is in doubt. Its more confusing to go in and say you have a 383 4bbl and need a cam and they say "which do you have a 330hp or a 335hp. Easy enough if you could simply go to the the 5th digit in car's VIN and end any confusion as N may stand exclusively for 383HP. You'd quickly get the right cam installed. Think about it.

You supplied a list earlier, a list of carbs and engine colors. Were did you get this list if you don't mind.

This list seems to dictate Holleys and orange paint verify HP383's and nothing else, no VIN distinction as the 3 different 440's (T, U, & V), so its very important to know. Customers weren't told or didn't know there was a broadcast sheet tucked under front seat, rear seat, or dash pad, or under front carpet, this was for assembly line workers not average car owner to produce to verify codes, some or most cars didn't even come with a b-sheet and some even had the wrong one. You need the VIN for help as it is readily visible and the fender tag has most options ordered on car for service replacement parts to be correct. GG said he started out reading fender tags for paint, not b-sheets! B-sheets only came about years later after cars were restored and seats and dash pads removed, years after.

I wonder now why Holley would get exclusive rights to all HP motors in any combo with A/C, ECS, shaker, etc. and even all w/out said featurs. For every Carter carb and combo, there was a Holley to match it, HP motors would never even need a Carter unless the factory ran out or supplies from Holley were delayed, etc. (leaking fuel bowls) only then would a Carter carb make it onto a 'Cuda or R/T, an engine still painted orange though. Lol!

What was wrong with Carters carbs that they may have been excluded from all the HP 383's, which is either cold hard facts or our best educated guess and opinion.

Guys, you are the best. Surround your self with the best and you'll go where you want to be.

Posted By: cudaized

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/04/08 09:02 AM

Quote:

Makes me wonder if any more were built the same day as these two?

I have 16 JH27N0B in the Registry.

Posted By: ErikR

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/04/08 01:14 PM

There was at least one other B5/B5/V3W BH27N0B that came out of FL a few years ago. I saw pictures of it on a rotisserie and it appeared to be an original 4-speed car but no fender tag or bcs or original engine. No A/C either (funny, it did also have a leather interior). It was trashed pretty good in FL then it went to OH to a new owner who restored it to a purple/white combo with a 383 6bbl. I may have lost the vin as I was not keeping good records then but I have an ad I wrote that has the info so I'll check. It now has a hemi and I would not be surprised if it resurfaces with fake docs.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/04/08 01:16 PM

Quote:

Quote:

round two ... ding-ding

1970 -
1 - The 383-2bbl and Carter 383-4bbl engines share the same cam & valve springs.
2 - The Holley 383-4bbl & the 440HP 4bbl engines share the same cam, valve springs w/damper, & windage tray.

as I see it -
The orange 383 engines were for the "muscle-cars" in Plymouth "pony car" speak - the "'Cudas", for plenty of show -n- go!
----- ( you won't find any blue-383s as original equiptment in one! )

The blue 383 engines were for the "personal luxury cars" in Plymouth "pony car" speak - the "Gran Coupe", plenty of torque for the added weight of A/C and other options. 2bbl or 4bbl? How do you like to roll? The b'cast above (thanks Nigel) shows a BP with a 4-spd w/HOLLEY & orange "HP" engine.
----- ( who has a b'cast for a BP with N/auto, A/C & 3.55s? any HOLLEYs on there? )
----- ( who has a b'cast for a BP with N/auto & 3.91s? I bet we have HOLLEYs on there! )

That leaves the Barracuda with a 383 - any way you want it.
----- ( who has a b'cast for a BH with N/auto, A/C & 3.55s? any HOLLEYs on there? )
----- ( who has a b'cast for a BH with N/auto & 3.91s? I bet we have HOLLEYs on there! )

----------------------------------------------

I took a closer look at the FSM, yes, the 2bbl and 4bbl 383 B and J (E bodies) did share a cam. You are correct here. We are good there. The 383 4bbl for Dodge, Plymouth, Chrysler also had a separate cam, the 440HP cam's same part#. Slightly confusing here is the mention of Chrysler along with Dodge and Plymouth. I don't recall any Chrysler that got a Super Commando/Magnum/TNT 383 335hp engine in '70.

I also see 383 2bbl/4bbl springs are part#2658471 and 383 4bbl springs directly underneath are part#2658204. These must be the correct springs for 383HP. The 440HP springs are then carried over to all 1971 300hp 383's too.

I see no mention of springs w/dampers in FSM for 440HP, just springs, enlighten us all if you will please. I knew that street hemi springs had dampers. I'm 99.98% sure my engine has valve dampers in the springs. I'll inspect closer and maybe send pics when I get back this weekend. Carry me back to ole Virginia. TY

The windage tray was welded to the oil pan...yes? My original pan also has the windage tray. Unlike the modern Mopar trays that are separate items and sandwich between oil pan and block. Factory tray does not have its own part number. I can't find a windage tray anywhere in oil section, only an oil scrapper for front of crank for all 340, 383, 440, & 426. The 383 uses a different pan part #2532401 then the 440 and hemi that share a pan part #32951564 (7 qt v 6qt?). So the oil pan w/ welded windage tray would be found on all 383's then...either 290/330/335. Not just HP 335hp engines.

There is one Holley carb for 383 4bbl and H51: the R4369A - REF#45. Its for a 383 w/727, w/A/C, and w/o ECS. This should be the correct carb for a 335hp 'Cuda that was ordered with A/C if you are indeed correct. What you are saying is that it would not be blue, even when ordered with A/C because of the Holley carb. I think I can agree there too.

There is no 4bbl Carter carb listed at all for a 383 and 3 or 4speed, either w/A/C or w/o A/C. It seems only Holley supplied all carbs for all manual transmissions...So any BH/JH or BP and manual would be a 383HP by virtue of its Holley carb. We are also good here too. Whew!!

Is it the 3 digit engine code in line 4 of the BP 4 speed B-sheet that also convinces you it is an HP - forget the Holley carb for a moment for arguements sake. I can't make out either codes in the pic he posted for carb or engine, what are they, what do they say? One says 202 I think, is it Canadian? Whatever. Please explain further. TY

It seems the VIN line 4 code for engine would be 087 for 383HP and 086 as in mine for a non HP? If we can hear from you again on this oh great one, will be much abliged.

What still strikes me as odd and over looked.

The factory states N = 383HP and L = 383.

Mopars 70 FSM and 70-71 parts catalog never, repeat, never states L = 383 2bbl, never states that L = 383 330hp...just that L = 383. Period.

Remember guys that T = 440 and U = 440HP and V = 440 SxPK. There is a VIN distinction of either a T or a U for 440 and 440HP, then why not a VIN distinction for 383 and 383HP too? Think about it. I have for 15+ years now.

So why does everyone seem to not see like I can that L = 383(2&4bbl/330hp) and N = 383HP 335hp.

Dan, you said that the internals are different and makes too confusing when ordering parts, but if the 2 and 4 bbl 330hp share the same cam/springs there is no confusion. Cast vs forged crank, there is a maltese cross on 2bbl's block to aid mechanics. All the parts counter person needs to know for pistons is: (1) is it a 2 or 4 bbl 383, easy enough, just pop the hood if owner or parts counter person is in doubt. Its more confusing to go in and say you have a 383 4bbl and need a cam and they say "which do you have a 330hp or a 335hp. Easy enough if you could simply go to the the 5th digit in car's VIN and end any confusion as N may stand exclusively for 383HP. You'd quickly get the right cam installed. Think about it.

You supplied a list earlier, a list of carbs and engine colors. Were did you get this list if you don't mind, what is it, where can the rest of us get one. I've never seen it and it may be a GG issued document Galen found that is genuine Chrysler literature, or maybe he made the list of engine colors over the years of his research. Please explain, is it a factory service bulletin, what?

This list seems to dictate Holleys and orange paint verify HP383's and nothing else, no VIN distinction as the 3 different 440's (T, U, & V), so its very important to know. Customers weren't told or didn't know there was a broadcast sheet tucked under front seat, rear seat, or dash pad, or under front carpet, this was for assembly line workers not average car owner to produce to verify codes, some or most cars didn't even come with a b-sheet and some even had the wrong one. You need the VIN for help as it is readily visible and the fender tag has most options ordered on car for service replacement parts to be correct. GG said he started out reading fender tags for paint, not b-sheets! B-sheets only came about years later after cars were restored and seats and dash pads removed, years after.

I wonder now why Holley would get exclusive rights to all HP motors in any combo with A/C, ECS, shaker, etc. and even all w/out said featurs. For every Carter carb and combo, there was a Holley to match it, so all HP motors would never even need a Carter unless the factory ran out or supplies from Holley were delayed, only then would a Carter carb make it onto a 'Cuda or R/T, probably still painted orange though. Lol!

What was wrong with Carters carbs that they were totally excluded from all the HP 383's, which is either cold hard facts or your best educated guess and opinion. I'm starting to believe both are true and facts and not opinions.

I love it guys, you are the best. Surround your self with the best and you'll go where you want to be.

The windage tray was welded to the oil pan...yes?

I seriously doubt it.The scraper you speak of is the windage tray.pt.# 2863983.The 340 tray is listed first in the parts book along with the attaching bolts.Scraper = windage tray.Separate item,not welded to the pan.

Posted By: sixpackbee

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/04/08 01:34 PM

The 70 383 4bbls are the same with the following exceptions:
330 Carter AVS 4734 & 4736 Manual trans
4732 Auto
335 Holley 4160 4217, 4367 Manual
4218, 4369 Auto
330 Cam same as 290 Cam both valvesprings w/o damper
335 Cam same as 375/440 and valve spring w/ damper
330 had no windage tray where 335 did.

The 5hp difference had nothing to do wth the carb. The switch to Holley was I beleive partly a racing decision. The mid classes in stock and super stock, between where a 440 would fit and a 340 would fit were still GM's domain. By putting the piston below deck, as opossed to the 68/69 above deck, you could actually fit a cam worth a darn and the Holley carb is bigger and more tunable.

Quote:

The windage tray was welded to the oil pan...yes?

The windage tray was an add on piece btween the oil pan a nd block just like the ones they still sell. Also some was said about 440 heads bolted on the 383. There were no different 906 heads. They were all the same, 383 2bbl. all the way to the 440 Six Pack.

Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/04/08 01:38 PM

Quote:

The windage tray was welded to the oil pan...yes?

I seriously doubt it.The scraper you speak of is the windage tray.pt.# 2863983.The 340 tray is listed first in the parts book along with the attaching bolts.Scraper = windage tray.Separate item,not welded to the pan.

I think he talking about the sheet metal pan baffles in the sump. Did all 70 383's get that?

Posted By: Furyman

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/04/08 02:15 PM

All 1970 383's get the 402 stamp # oil pan when in E bodys.L code 2 bbl and 330 horse N codes do not get the windage tray that goes between the pan and block.
In 1970 T code 440's have different horse power ratings as well.The most common one is the 440/350 ...single exhaust,single snorkel ,stnd cam versions.Sport Fury GT's, Wagons and Fleet cars get the other version....dual exhaust,dual snorkel,stnd camshaft,stnd valve springs which was still advertized in the 1970 factory Fury literature as a 440/350...seen it advertized in Chrysler literature as a 440/360 or 440/365...have to look it up.When I get some time tonight I see if I have some broadcasts with other N code variations an post them.

Posted By: DPelletier

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/04/08 05:32 PM

Wow, 3 pages of this.

Does everyone (including Nick) agree that the "N" VIN code was used for both the 330 hp and 335 hp motors or not? and that the car in question (Barracuda, with A/C, blue engine, carter carb with no HP stamp) was originally equipped with the 330 hp motor?

Dave

Posted By: 1_WILD_RT

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/04/08 05:41 PM

Quote:

The parts catalog mentions screw w/ washer for oil scraper is (4) required. The new tray from Mopar does not include any screws. What this must mean is the tray is secured o engine w/ these (4) screws w/washer. Yet the new w/trays from Mopar simply are attaced by the original (20) oil pan bolts/screws - that have a separate part# then the oil scraper screws. I wasn't aware the tray was attached to engine using 4 screws.

The windage tray/scraper your looking at is small block..Attached to the special main bearing cap bolts...

The tray...

This place can be educational..

BTW for those who haven't seen a big block tray...

Posted By: 426runner

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/04/08 05:53 PM

Quote:

Wow, 3 pages of this.

Does everyone (including Nick) agree that the "N" VIN code was used for both the 330 hp and 335 hp motors or not? and that the car in question (Barracuda, with A/C, blue engine, carter carb with no HP stamp) was originally equipped with the 330 hp motor?

Dave

Never a doubt in my mind. This thread certainly clouded it up in a smoke amd mirrors kind of way. I think "east" had convinced himself that his "perception" of his materials was fact. I use to do the same thing, but then I joined Moparts

L=383 2bbl
N=383 4bbl (both flavors)

Posted By: Dogpro

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/04/08 11:28 PM

I have a BP23N code with 4spd a/c and a holley and it came with the 335hp orange engine, it's been in the family since 1975 so I know it has not been tampered with.

Posted By: blue67440's

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/05/08 04:24 AM

Quote:

Wow, 3 pages of this.

Does everyone (including Nick) agree that the "N" VIN code was used for both the 330 hp and 335 hp motors or not? and that the car in question (Barracuda, with A/C, blue engine, carter carb with no HP stamp) was originally equipped with the 330 hp motor?

Dave

I one billion % agree, what was set in stone still is

Posted By: ebodyseast

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/07/08 01:14 AM

Thank you Masters...
Many here said to drop this subject many times and to just enjoy my car. I do enjoy restoring/finding Moparts, occasionally researching is like a treat too and sure beats knitting.

I claimed to only ever see one other BH27N conv. in my years, and that it was on the internet, well, I remembered after maybe seeing he�s a member here - I think, I did remember it from the uscartool web site uscartool.com as being Gil�s drop top fish from seeing two years ago or so. I can�t make out the B-sheet he has posted there, but it looks like a 086 engine code is present? And a 37? carb code. Any help here would be appreciated by any of the uscartool guys that know Gil and ask him if he�d kindly post clear pics of his B-sheet that are readable for future documentation of these cars by our Masters here please.

My opinions are as good as anyone�s here, and it is in that spirit and in that name that I dare to go forward with this. Missing in this is when my friend Tony asked me, �Where is the M code engine?� Where indeed, Tony�where indeed. I always liked the way Tony thinks. Where is the M.

IMO, had Chrysler designated an L to the 383 2bbl (which it did) and an M to the 383/330hp and an N to the 383/335hp�well we wouldn�t be having this discussion now & could all quickly agree. As in the (E85)T (E86)U (E87)V given to 440�s VIN spot. Jokingly, I told Tony that the M was reserved for the cop motors we were also discussing when researching the replacement parts for a �70 383HP. Not seeing any Hi Po cop parts for the 383 or 440HP engines listed anywhere (valve rotators, girdles, extended oil fillers, etc.?) This is off topic. Was it so confusing to mistake an M for an N that Chrysler chose to not even use the letter M in their VIN lettering system � as in mistaking a P for an R, etc. Or is their lettering system already so simple that they assumed nobody should be clueless. �Where�s the M?� he says. LMFAO.

If I was working at parts counter in mid-June 1970, and I needed to know if the motor was an HP or not, and my May �70 warranty customer came in for a cam for his 383HP automatic and no a/c - I wouldn�t expect to ask them the same question our good man Dan first asked of me which was what is the line 4 code of the engine and carb code. I simply could have asked him if there was an M or an N in the VIN (had Chrysler assigned the M.) and gotten him the 440HP cam. Same goes for my �70 440 six bbl customer. I ask him if there is a V in the VIN and get him the three bolt cam instead of the 440HP single bolt. I could have sat there and gotten fatter. If I actually get off my rear, then an HP stamped next to or near model year & engine size on the top pad would be the quickest visual verification for a mechanic. Let�s revisit this one later. Second is seeing a matching #�s Holley carb. Do I really want to unbolt his shaker hood in the parking lot to see it, its as big as a sewer cover. Third is factory orange paint.

How was same new customer to know there is a b-sheet (or two) tucked up under his passenger�s leather seat. (Leather seats were standard on BH/JH/BP27; as was M31 (V5X) black side belt moldings & tinted glass � options are fairly common & first two were credit/delete.) When was the last time you looked under your new seat in your new car? Lol! What are you expecting to find there if you were looking. No, I wouldn�t expect that same customer to discover his BCS until the mid 80�s came around. I freed my two from captivity in 1995. After 40 years, some of us still don�t know what a few of the codes on them mean (like the engine codes) and come sniffing around & asking the same darn questions answered easily on BCS decode forums.

My misinterpretation in 1989 of Chrysler�s VIN decode system had me blinded initially to the facts until now, year 2008. I prefer to deal in the truth, and in seeking the truth I am finding it here with your help. My 2 close friends, when I posed the same questions, they too thought as I did earlier on, that N only stood for HP and L was for 2 and 4bbl. That is, until the bigger picture evolved as I informed them of the E63 sales codes and the 086 and the 087 B�sheet codes on line 4 and everything else posted then discussed here on the forum last week. Quickly changing their minds - as I have.

With all due respect to my Master DPelletier, this thread was never solely about ebodyseast and his 1970 Barracuda. Thank you for presenting us a forum for such discussions. My car was never to be the sole or even main topic of discussion.

All E61 and E63 E Body owners will have benefited from my bringing this up in 3 pages of awesome stuff. How many of our members have ever seen a 383 �Cuda automatic with a/c that was painted blue or had a Carter? Probably none. Are there any 383 �Cuda�s or R/T�s that wear a Carter carb as original? My answer is probably no again. All �Cuda�s may have a 087 or different BCS engine code, and never an 086 or the like (084/085, etc. ). Any owner of a BS23NOB that has auto with a/c with a BCS can tell us what their engine code is. Let�s hear from you. Is it 086 or is it 087? All should be 087 and a Holley Carb code. Yes? Please include your BCS carb code too. All that is needed is two cars here to confirm its true.

One member in particular, autoxcuda, had asked that I stay on in the forum to help educate him and every other member at all interested in this thread. I educated my self too along the way. Thank you for making me feel welcome autoxcuda. There were a few members here that were under the same wrong impressions I was at the time, the ones telling me automatics are blue and manuals orange. We�ll beat it to death that most all the 3 & 4 speeds shold be orange, but don�t tell me all automatics are blue before the owners may have a chance to come forward. While others here like Tav and dgt71 were clueless and eating pop corn while waiting for answers made of pure gold

Luv ya guys�stay glued, remember�lots of butter.

Some answers had contradicted even the expert testimony at one time or another, leaving us all to decide for our selves what the truth is. Member Diego (not Ted)�s explaining that a �Cuda or R/T with auto and a/c would have been 330hp, but failing to include what color he thought it would also be and what carb would be atop. Remember Diego (not Ted) that I have found in FSM to be a Holley carb listed in the parts catalog for every �Cuda & R/T app. including the auto and a/c cars. Now think of one original owner R/T whose 383 auto w/ a/c was painted blue and had a Carter like my BH combo, you probably haven�t ever seen one because they may all have originally been a orange/Holley 335hp combo. You may have a hard time convincing �Cuda and R/T owners of this. No disrespect Diego (not Ted) & thank you for your valuable time and input.

Being that 4bbl 383�s were sharing the same E63 sales code, it also stands to reason they also shared the same N in the VIN. That I did finally concede to - even when the 440 would go on to designate its 440HP counterpart and even its six-pack with totally different VIN letters. And especially because there were so many external (intake, carb, etc.) and internal (pistons, cast v forged crank, etc.) differences between a 2bbl and 4bbl 383. That�s my story and I�m sticking to it.

But Hemi71 saw it differently when posing the argument that E63 did not even include a non-performance (330hp) 383 engine after his researching this topic. Where is the E62 Tony? LMWFAO! Much along the same lines as my posing the initial argument that N only stood for 383 HP engines, his being the same argument as mine was�only different. No one has touched that one yet either. If we ignore him, maybe he�ll go away!! Just kidding Hemi71, don�t go anywhere - we luv & respect you and need your valuable input and research.

This E63 sales code is for the salesperson at a dealership to order his customer a 4bbl 383�correct? The 086 and 087 engine codes on line 4 of B-sheet were for the assembly line workers to also help get it right before leaving the factory. This stands to reason as true.

Hemi71 with his research and input also did open a few brand new questions for debate that as of yet have gone unanswered. He didn�t go away already did he?! I told him not too. Because he has concluded all 1970 383 4bbls are HP by virtue of their identical internal parts that year. He also stated as he sees it that there weren�t two versions of a 4bbl in the same model line - whether there is a HP stamp on the distributor pad next to engine size or no HP stamp there at all it would then stand to reason. RoadRunnerJD here in my home state of VA went as far as to say that none of the �69 or �70 engines were stamped with an HP or HP2. I�ve taken that to mean he has included the �70 383 like I own for our discussion. While pacnorthcuda hasn�t told us yet if his BS23NOB has a HP stamp at distributor hole.) And lastly, Hemi71 also felt that the Holley carbs alone boosted the 5 horse power as well as being more tunable at the drag strip

I can hardly argue after checking through his research. Only I see it differently - in parts catalog it states a 383 4bbl has two cam options, and 2nd option is a 440HP cam. There is the proof for me that only orange HP engines w/a Holley had this cam�when ordered with A/C is still a mystery. I can easily see why he would conclude this even with his experience and his interpretation of the FSM that the engine�s all shared the same 4bbl cam specs, same HP valve springs. I checked and the springs in my non-HP 383 engine do have a valve damper just like a brand new Mopar street hemi spring that will also fit the 915/906 heads and matches the .484 lift Mopar cam. Who here over checked Hemi71�s cam spec research, etc. and can argue? Did anyone look into it? Re-read his conclusions. No one has yet checked into the .05 �raised ring� reference in the FSM when ordering and specifying 383 4bbl cams that he�s brought up. I see it there, I�m clueless what it means unless it means stick in a HiPo motor! And I have also made this response to finally answer his question when he asked the forum early on what code you will find on a B-sheet for a non-HP 383 engine. The answer I give him and everyone else is �086�, as was the identical answer provided first by Dan to me.

Galen was 100% wrong in 1990 to advise Scott to paint a 383 w/ auto blue when an E Body also has the A/C option and a Holley code on B-sheet. GG then went on to contradict himself in the same statement by thinking and advising Scott that a non �Cuda with a 383 4bbl with a/c and an automatic would come with a Holley carb in the first place! As none have surfaced, only a few other blue a/c motor examples like mine.

No, we�ve all learned an auto with a/c is blue and requires a Carter to be correct. Scotts uncle�s Gran Coupe should have been orange or had a Carter carb and never both! Without the B-sheet, Scott had no clue either, like me...even with a B-sheet 15 years later. Just as he was selling his uncle�s conv in �93�I was buying mine shortly after in early �94. So were I to ask Galen back in �94 what he thought of mine after his seeing Scott�s uncle�s only a year earlier, who knows what he would have said. Eat your heart out GG. Hope you�ve learned since then! If not you�d better keep reading on.

What we�ve all learned by now is that ALL of the �Cuda and R/T Challenger�s should be HP 335hp engines. What we also learn is that most ALL non �Cuda & non-R/T 383 manuals (3&4 spd); and ost all 383 automatics without A/C were also HP 335hp. We know so far the only cars guaranteed to not get an HP engine are only cars to get 330hp in every situation were like mine, the auto and a/c blue engines.

It has occurred to me, that Chrysler made a point in 1970 to only install the Holley for the Hi Po 383. Refusing to equip the 383 auto and a/c base model cars like mine with one. There must have been a bottom line issue with this combo in the base models. A luxury v performance issue as Dan stated. Hard top automatic and a/c 383 �Cuda�s and R/T�s should be fairly common - along with the few convertibles built. The engine was there, just not for every Barracuda, Gran Coupe & Challenger V8 engine/trans/a/c - w/o a/c combo.

Keep those N code B-sheet combos comin� as you kindly promised to Nigel. TY. Furyman is probably thinking �do I know him?�

As of yet I�m the only member to provide their engine codes to help clarify the 086 and 087 issue except Nigel�s engine code from the Gran Coupe 4 speed.

Anybody can repaint an engine from blue to orange when restoring them. I could tell an unsuspecting buyer that this is a fender tag car only. I can also easily fool someone and find a Holley carb for my A/C application on any �Cuda or R/T with A/C and shelf the Carter for some one expecting this combo.

What is needed is for our omnipotent and benevolent forces that be, our Masters & our Mods, to provide us as members here (smile) Chrysler�s decode document(s) for the line 4 383 engine codes in B-sheet from 1960�s to mid 1970�s. Mastershake340 would be kind to show us pics of his JH27NOB�s build sheet to verify Challengers were identical. Mastershake340, thanks for the nice comments about my car. Lets get a look see at that limited production E conv of yours some time!

The document that 1 Wild RT furnished us with �69 & �70 hp ratings for 383, truthfully, it fails to mention & acknowledge a �70 manual trans and a/c combo, if it does it only rates a 4 speed with a/c at 330hp (Dogpro�s family owned BP27NOB since 1975 already attested to this being untrue) - and also fails to mention an automatic and no a/c and 335hp. Three strikes you�re out. Truthfully, it is very hard to say it does not contradict itself in these ways and is thus only one small source of info when looking at the bigger picture here. Correct me when wrong please or correct and update that document of yours and repost it!

There is nothing stamped for us on the fender tags of a Hamtramck built car either. Is the engine code there on a Lynch Road built car? The N is present, the E63 is present, no engine code is present on my fender tag. After reading current post about some one thinking wrongly that an E body didn�t come with elasto rubber bumpers front and back only because it wasn�t anywhere on a fender tag for all to see and worship makes me even bring this issue up. The BCS is only source to turn to unless you also have something like the sales invoices (magnificent documents) that Furyman has posted. (Drool!!!) Or a window sticker. I�d enjoy to know the �official� names used for all these pre-delivery documents that you have. Even with the �sales invoice� that shows engine ordered, and trans, and either a/c or no a/c, you still need to know everything else that is discussed here. Remember some cars have no b-sheet and no fender tag and no sales voice, nothing.

Correct Mr. Vanila B.Vert the magician where required. Hey 426runner - I never work with smoke and mirrors on stage. I did cloud things here with previous ignorance on my part. The thread was bogged down at the end by the windage tray info, you won�t be tearing the engine apart looking for valve springs and windage trays when buying your next one, no, you�ll be looking it over and scanning the fender tag, BCS, and any sales invoice/window sticker that are still present along with everything else still original. My contribution to this forum has been to spend my time researching and to offer my conclusions from evidence presented, if I have failed you all in this, then I am a failure.

A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

Posted By: ebodyseast

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/12/08 12:03 AM

Do you also have a BCS dogpro? If so, can you post the engine & carb codes. Thanks bro.

I see in Paul Herd's Challenger Barracuda resto guide on page 42 when speaking of radiators. Mine has the 61 radiator so it also has a fan shroud. Look at the note next to 3/4 speed no a/c with a 54 radiator and auto with no a/c and a 60 radiator. The only left is a 383 4bbl Max Cool rad, the ultra expensive hemi '56' radiator also found in 383 4bbl. Any way, it states no fan shroud for 330hp engines with 54 or 60 radiator.

Is it a clue, is it fact?

Posted By: Furyman

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/12/08 12:23 AM

So I guess this BS23 is an E86 not E63 cause it's orange with AC eh?

Attached File

4350159-wack.bmp (167 downloads)

Posted By: Diego (not Ted)

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/12/08 12:28 AM

My head hurts.

Posted By: 69CoronetRT

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/12/08 12:50 AM

Quote:

My head hurts.

Mine too....
Anyone have the Cliff notes to that post?

Posted By: ebodyseast

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/12/08 12:56 AM

Hey ErikR,

Thank for the heads up on the bogus B5 conv - a sister car in ways to Nigel's uncle's old BP27 B5.

You have a 1970 'Cuda with a 383, is it auto or manual and with or w/o a/c. do you mind sharing what your engine code and carb code on BCS? Is there an HP stamped next to a correct model year (F)and engine size on its pad near distributor hole? Thanks bro!

Posted By: ebodyseast

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/12/08 01:10 AM

I'm not sure what Furyman is saying about the E86 and E63 and orange paint. If it was a joke...I missed it. But I will laugh if I ever do get it. The only reason I brought the 440 into the discussion was its lettering system to aid in VIN id as well as a possible engine id. for 383 and is easier to understand then the 383, since the M and the E62 were excluded for a reason that is beyond me .

We were discussing the 383 4bbl and its oranage paint to help us identify in one of a few different ways if it is a genuine HP engine in '70. Having an HP stamp is another obvious identifier. JDRoadRunner here said '69 & '70 engines weren't stamped HP. Is he correct?

Posted By: RoadRunnerJD

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/12/08 01:11 AM

I think we can now safely believe that the 383 330 motor is not marked HP and is painted blue and was the standard motor when you ordered a 4 bbl with a/c whether 4 speed or automatic! I'm glad I have a 4 speed BH29P9 with A/C. I know which 340 it has! It's turquoise but so are the 340 non A/C cars. Hey! Maybe all the 69 340's are the same whether a/c or not? Which brings back the question why did the engineers feel that the 383 a/c cars should be 330 HP? They didn't put a 350 HP 440 CID in a GTX with air?

Posted By: blue67440's

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/12/08 01:16 AM

Quote:

My head hurts.

Nothing like a mountain made of a molehill.

084 = 383/4, manual, a/c, painted blue, 330hp
085 = 383/4, auto, no a/c, blue, 330 hp
086 = 383/4, auto, a/c, blue, 330 hp
087 = 383/4, manual, no a/c, orange, 335 hp
088 = 383/4, auto, no a/c, orange, 335 hp
089 = 383/4, auto a/c, orange, 335 hp

The only way you'll ever know what your trying to find out is to have all the broadcast sheets for all the cars in question - not gonna happen.

This is part of the mystique that makes the mopar hobby fun, enjoy your car and quit worrying about L's, M's, N's and whatever the heck else.

blue

Posted By: ebodyseast

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/12/08 01:34 AM

RoadRunnerJD - you may have a hard time convincing Dogpro he doesn't have an orange 335hp engine that has a/c. Especially now that the engines codes were supplied, now he can check them to his BCS, and know him self...but he already knew and was kind enough to tell us all.

If he's interested in checking his BCS to this list that is, and if he does, maybe he'll also tell us what he found and maybe even send in a pic to show you proof how you are wrong, maybe he won't.

I did state that only two cars were needed to verify, not every single one ever built. Guys like Dogpro, that haven't messed with them came here to help us all out...to learn.

Life does need a mystery, you are too correct. I'll drop it. If anyone wants to post anything else that helps like the engine codes did.

Posted By: Mastershake340

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/12/08 03:04 AM

I skimmed through some of your novel and spotted my name a few times.

My broadcast sheet apparently was destroyed. The previous owner found a few small bits that the mice missed, nothing with any codes.

However he did meet up with another JH27NOB owner at the Nats in the mid 90's whose car was very similarly equipped to his (now mine) and had a very, very close VIN.

The owner sent him a copy of his broadcast sheet and it was included in the paperwork when I bought the car. I just looked at it and the engine code is 085 and the carb code code is 38. Taking a look at this broadcast sheet I see my cars "brother" has an H11 heater/AC code which means that it doesn't have AC like my car does. My H51 equipped car's engine code should be 086.
As for your request to see pictures of my car, I've posted many here on Moparts over the years, rather than post some again, I can direct you to some pictures still present on another site:
second car posted on this thread-
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=43825.0
Another picture and brief description on the bottom of page 3 of this thread-
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=39796.0

Posted By: RoadRunnerJD

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/12/08 03:11 AM

At this point, I don't think I would say you couldn't special order the 335HP with a/c just that the 330 horse motor was blue and seems to be the standard 4 bbl motor when you ordered a/c. It seems that a 383/335 with a 4 speed and a/c would be very rare. I wonder how many new owners who added a/c to their 383 musclecar thought they were getting 335 horses or if the salesperson explained the options?

Posted By: 69CoronetRT

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/12/08 03:19 AM

Quote:

At this point, I don't think I would say you couldn't special order the 335HP with a/c ...

How would you 'order' it? What sales code would you use? How much more did it cost if anything? Would it be listed on the window sticker? The fender tag? The invoice?

Posted By: blue67440's

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/12/08 03:27 AM

Wouldn't it have to be handwritten in? Does anyone have a 70 order checkoff sheet to see if you could check the magic box?

Was a 383/335 orange motor mandatory in a cuda or chally r/t with an axle package A31/A36?

Adding to the molehill

blue

Posted By: Alaskan_TA

My head hurts too....... - 04/12/08 03:33 AM

Any special order engine would have a "Z" in the VIN as the engine code in 1970.

Posted By: ebodyseast

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/12/08 03:46 AM

084 = 383/4, manual, a/c, painted blue, 330hp
085 = 383/4, auto, no a/c, blue, 330 hp
086 = 383/4, auto, a/c, blue, 330 hp
087 = 383/4, manual, no a/c, orange, 335 hp
088 = 383/4, auto, no a/c, orange, 335 hp
089 = 383/4, auto a/c, orange, 335 hp

Dogpro states his Gran Coupe is 4 speed & a/c & orange & 335hp. It would not make this list above as his combo is not even acknowledged.

Where are these engine combos on that list...what are their engine assembly codes?
0?? = 383/4, manual, no a/c, painted blue, 330hp
0?? = 383/4, manual, a/c, painted orange, 335hp

If Dogpro could produce BCS documentation for us it would be a real party then...

Posted By: JRepucci

Re: My head hurts too....... - 04/12/08 04:00 AM

This post rates right up there with......

I have had several barracuda's and cuda's with the 383 engine... I have never had a BS23N car with a blue engine.

I have had BH23N/BP23 cars with blue engines...and orange engines.

I have the build sheet right here from a BP23N0E(Yes, an Los Angeles built car that had a sheet) it had a blue engine 086 code and a 41 carb code.

I also have a Build sheet and window sticker from a BH23N1B it WAS a 4spd car, no A/C and it had an orange engine...and it said HP on the pad. window sticker 383 code is E65 (383 CID ENGINE 8CYL - 4BBL.) and buildsheet engine code is 418 and carb 48.

Posted By: 1_WILD_RT

Re: My head hurts too....... - 04/12/08 04:06 AM

Ya know, I read codes to educate & amuse myself, this post just continues to beat a dead horse...My head hurts so I think I'll jump in my JS27N0B &

....

Posted By: blue67440's

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/12/08 04:12 AM

Quote:

I have a BP23N code with 4spd a/c and a holley and it came with the 335hp orange engine, it's been in the family since 1975 so I know it has not been tampered with.

Well maybe if dogpro has some validity to prove this we may discover something.

Posted By: ebodyseast

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/12/08 04:25 AM

Can't decipher the BCS graciously supplied us for the Gran Coupe BP D21 4spd & H11 non-a/c car, other then the engine code is what looks to be a '202' - and cannot make out at all what the carb code to the right is; unless my eyes decieve it is 0 (zero?)

Posted By: blue67440's

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/12/08 04:32 AM

It's a 70 car's sheet printed on a 69 format sheet.

look at line 4, 2 digits in, there is 087 for engine and 36 for carb, dead on with the info. we'realready beating to death.

Posted By: ebodyseast

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/12/08 04:54 AM

Yes, on my BCS, if you go to line four, two 'digits' over, it is 086 and carb code to right is 40.

If you go to line four on this BCS - two 'digits' over, you see axle code 873 , etc.

I don't see where you see a code 087 and carb 36 anywhere.

Look instead - at line three to the very right and see if you see what I do, a engine code '202, and carb code to right is 0, and choke to right of carb is blank.
----------------------------------

Just beat it...beat it.

Attached picture 4350959-4329253-HPIM2764.jpg

Attached picture 4350959-4329253-HPIM2764.jpg

Posted By: stwheels

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/12/08 04:55 AM

Quote:

I have a BP23N code with 4spd a/c and a holley and it came with the 335hp orange engine, it's been in the family since 1975 so I know it has not been tampered with.

I guess that there is no way the motor could have been rebuilt and painted Orange before 1975 then? Lots of "stuff" can happen in 4 years.

Posted By: 69CoronetRT

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/12/08 04:56 AM

That a 70 car printed on a 69 sheet. The boxes are different. Look at line 4 and numbers 3, 4 and 5

Posted By: blue67440's

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/12/08 05:00 AM

Quote:

That a 70 car printed on a 69 sheet. The boxes are different. Look at line 4 and numbers 3, 4 and 5

YES, what Doug said!!!

70 info on a 69 sheet doesn't match the boxes!!!

CRIPES!!!!

Posted By: ebodyseast

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/12/08 05:14 AM

Easy kid...I'm sorry. Pardon me all over the place. So I'm not as sharp as everyone else is.

Hmmmm..."I see said the blind man.."

The 70-71 parts catalog lists a reference #37 carb as a 383 export 2 bbl Carter for automatic as a #4730S!!

Furyman would have an absolute fit if he hought I was going to question him about this misprint!!

Posted By: 69CoronetRT

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/12/08 05:27 AM

Quote:

Easy kid...I'm sorry. Pardon me all over the place. So I'm not as sharp as everyone else is.

Hmmmm..."I see said the blind man.."

The 70-71 parts catalog lists a reference #37 carb as a 383 export 2 bbl Carter for automatic as a #4730S!!

Furyman would have an absolute fit if he hought I was going to question him about this misprint!!

I think you're reading the parts book incorrectly...

Posted By: ebodyseast

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/12/08 06:33 AM

69CoronetRT. Glad to know you. Everytime you get in here I see you are looking for 68 383 2bbl codes off of other people's BCS. What in the world ever possesed you my new friend!! The Coronet. Ah, you see as we are cut of the same mold.

Now only a week later, it is I it seems who is shaking down innocent owners this week for their BCS codes too, only for '70 383 4bbl. Lol!!

You of all can at least side with me a little.
What are the 2bbl codes for that you seek? Research for your Coronet? Cool bro, I'll keep my ears open. best of luck.

Supplying those engine codes I never had and pics of convertible E Bodys is my treat and some of your worst nightmares. Tune out if you aren't interested. This topic hasn't had 1000+ views for nothing.

I can get my Mopar friend to measure lift of old cam before replacing with my new repro from Mopar for a 383 HP - and since the motor has 100K+ it needs the fresh new cam/lifters/springs, etc. I'm sure. And since no one knows what cam you have, they only know what you want them to hear

I'll also add the new windage tray I have.

The new HP cam and street hemi springs will be nice with that new windage tray.

I must be looking at it incorrectly you are right. On Text page 14-11, Feul 14-30-0. There is a column full of reference numbers.

It can't be now that I look closer as a 40 in the reference column is for a 383 without a/c, and my car did come with a/c. So the carb code is just like alot of the main parts wherein the last few digits of the factory part number are the actual BCS codes. Stupid reference numbers.

"Why separate knob Jerry? Why?!?!"

-------------------------------------------

You need the bad guy...so you can say look everybody...there's the bad guy. Well take a look...

Posted By: MRVCODE

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/12/08 07:12 AM

Quote:

This is a bit confusing and does hurt the head.

I'm not sure what Furyman is saying about the E86 and E63 and orange paint. If it was a joke...I missed it. But I will laugh if I ever do get it. The only reason I brought the 440 into the discussion was its lettering system to aid in VIN id as well as a possible engine id. for 383 is easier to understand then the 383, since the M and the E62 were excluded for a reason that is beyond me .

We were discussing the 383 4bbl and its oranage paint to help us identify in one of a few different ways if it is a genuine HP engine in '70. Having an HP stamp is an obvious identifier. JDRoadRunner here said '69 & '70 engines weren't stamped HP. Is he correct?

After reading this diatribe I have come to the conclusion;NO ONE CARES!!!! Enough already, it's a cool car welcome to Moparts, but for the love of God relax.......and please sell it and buy a camaro and join

another board.

Posted By: ebodyseast

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/12/08 09:41 AM

m46Rat has a Gran Coupe Conv 383, 4 spd, no a/c, with a 087 engine and a 37 carb. I found this on previous thread Dan posted where '70 E body owners needed to know what carb and color engine their car came with. Most in the thread were clueless (even m46Rat) that the BCS would help them find the carb code answers or that there even was a such a thing as an engine code.

m46Rat claimed his 087 335hp orange Super Commando engine didn't have an HP stamped on the pad. Even though 087 is clearly one of the orange HP engines listed. Must not have been stamped or stamped on 'strange' place like under the head was answer given to this. I wonder if he ever did find that HP was stamped some where. Maybe a P for premium fuel instead of R for regular fuel...something!!

That makes 2 Gran Coupe's found with a 4 speed and no a/c that are confimed Super Commando engines, m46Rat's and the one Furyman posted the BCS info.

In that thread, from last year, Dan asked if anyone could add 383 4bbl engine code numbers to his list of '70 carb codes. It seems I have become the man for the job of getting his list a kick in the bleep. Seems somebody here cares, and not just me, so lighten up a bit and watch it all happen.
Also in that '70 383 carb thread, Dan claimed a carb code is on the fender tag for his July 2, 1970 383 Challenger. My car was a July 3, 1970 build. A '70 'Cuda owner who had never heard of such a code being present on a fender tag later questioned Dan who has since never replied as to proof of this carb code that is also subsequently absent from my fender tag too.
I think Dan was simply mistaken and said fender tag when he really meant to say his build sheet is where the info is kept. I've made more than my share of mistakes here already. But the picture is getting very clear and my work is soon done.

Since there is no engine code for a 4 speed and a/c that is 335hp, in the 383 engine code list provided earlier, then the non 'Cuda and non R/T 4 speed and a/c cars must have been 330hp 084 engines with a Carter and painted blue. You heard it, a blue 4 speed with a Carter!! Lol. Maybe one other than Dogpro's will surface before this thread dies out to confirm or refute my conclusion.

The only cars not found in this thread yet are:
1) no 3 speed cars have come forward with BCS documentation; either a/c or non a/c
2) no automatic non a/c cars yet either...

Posted By: rm23j8g

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/12/08 11:50 AM

Sorry to get maybe just a little bit off topic here, but I've been reading this thread and the others concerning '70 383 carbs with great interest, as I have wondered about this issue for quite a while as well.
I bought an original paint very nice survivor JS29N0E Challenger a couple of years ago, and after extensive examination, the only thing that had been changed on it was the carb. It had some mid '70s Ford application Carter on it.
Of course, I wanted to put the correct carb back on it, and I ran into some of the issues and questions found in this thread. Unfortunately, among all of the paperwork, and maybe just because this is an LA built car, there is no broadcast sheet to know for sure what the carb code is.
After some early research soon after getting the car, I made an assumption, since whoever replaced the original carb probably wanted something "close" to what was on it, so I went with a Carter 4734S...the "ECS" carb shown on some of the lists. But after doing more research and reading threads like this one, I'm not sure I made the correct choice.
The usual '70 383 carb lists I see have some ambiguities as far as this particular car is concerned, so I've been trying to find someone with a broadcast sheet with my option combination to totally be sure I go with the correct carb.
In my Oct. 69 built car, the untouched engine is orange, is stamped "HP", and has A/C. It is an automatic, with the 3.55 axle package and a "956" radiator.
Now, here is the part that is causing me the most grief...it also has N95..ECS.
Does anyone have a broadcast sheet for a 'Cuda or another R/T equipped like this? I'd love to know the carb code!
thanks

Posted By: ErikR

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/12/08 12:27 PM

Quote:

Hey ErikR,

Thank for the heads up on the bogus B5 conv - a sister car in ways to Nigel's uncle's old BP27 B5.

Man for someone who can type a novel you should have spent some time reading it. The car I am referring to is not bogus. I said it did not have bcs or tag and may show up with them in the future.

Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/12/08 12:46 PM

A very interesting and worthwhile thread!

Busy & longwinded, but doesn't ramble; asks for help, proof and answers. What's the problem?
If some members would rather talk about the neighbor's sheep with AIDS there's the GENERAL forum.

Quote:

084 = 383/4, manual, a/c, painted blue, 330hp
085 = 383/4, auto, no a/c, blue, 330 hp
086 = 383/4, auto, a/c, blue, 330 hp
087 = 383/4, manual, no a/c, orange, 335 hp
088 = 383/4, auto, no a/c, orange, 335 hp
089 = 383/4, auto a/c, orange, 335 hp

The only way you'll ever know what your trying to find out is to have all the broadcast sheets for all the cars in question - not gonna happen.

383 manual - E & B-body - w/o ECS
... orange HP engine 335hp engine on b'cast 084 wA/C & 087
---------- Holley R4367-A ----------part number 3418 536 (on b'cast 36)

I believe the first engine listed (084) will be an orange HP - HOLLEY 383, as there are NO '70 Carter manual trans 4bbl 383s, and a few b'cast sheets with examples of each combination would confirm or contradict the current belief or mis-understanding often associated with 383s A/C & HP.

Although the 383 4bbl 3-speed manual seems odd to be all HP (HOLLEY/orange), with few exceptions (some Chargers/Sport Satellites sleepers/insurance beaters etc.) it will only be found in 'Cuda, Challenger R/T, Super Bee & Road Runner. The new "cheaper" for 1970 base musclecars.

Posted By: blue67440's

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/12/08 01:26 PM

Quote:

Sorry to get maybe just a little bit off topic here, but I've been reading this thread and the others concerning '70 383 carbs with great interest, as I have wondered about this issue for quite a while as well.
I bought an original paint very nice survivor JS29N0E Challenger a couple of years ago, and after extensive examination, the only thing that had been changed on it was the carb. It had some mid '70s Ford application Carter on it.
Of course, I wanted to put the correct carb back on it, and I ran into some of the issues and questions found in this thread. Unfortunately, among all of the paperwork, and maybe just because this is an LA built car, there is no broadcast sheet to know for sure what the carb code is.
After some early research soon after getting the car, I made an assumption, since whoever replaced the original carb probably wanted something "close" to what was on it, so I went with a Carter 4734S...the "ECS" carb shown on some of the lists. But after doing more research and reading threads like this one, I'm not sure I made the correct choice.
The usual '70 383 carb lists I see have some ambiguities as far as this particular car is concerned, so I've been trying to find someone with a broadcast sheet with my option combination to totally be sure I go with the correct carb.
In my Oct. 69 built car, the untouched engine is orange, is stamped "HP", and has A/C. It is an automatic, with the 3.55 axle package and a "956" radiator.
Now, here is the part that is causing me the most grief...it also has N95..ECS.
Does anyone have a broadcast sheet for a 'Cuda or another R/T equipped like this? I'd love to know the carb code!
thanks

I think you need a holley R4218 carb, broadcast sheet code 43 - listed for 70 383 4 barrel, automitic and a/c with N95.

No, no, back the wagon up - the carb I listed above makes no mention of a/c appliaction, the only other carb on my app list is a R4369 holley, sheet code 62 and used on 383/4 with auto and a/c - but it doesn't mention N95.

Dan, what can you add to this?

Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/12/08 01:59 PM

383 automatic - E & B-body - with ECS (N95)..................... orange HP engine 335hp
---------- Holley R4218-A ----------part number 3418 543 on b'cast 43

I went through a bunch of b'cast sheets, this is what I have examples of:
4-speed
BS E63 D21 eng-087 carb-36
BP E63 D21 eng-087 carb-36
JS E63 D21 eng-087 carb-36
JH E63 D21 eng-087 carb-36
RP E63 D21 eng-087 carb-36
XH E63 D21 eng-087 carb-36

4-speed with A/C
JS E63 D21 eng-084 carb-36

automatic
BS E63 D32 eng-088 carb-42
JS E63 D32 eng-088 carb-42
RM E63 D32 eng-088 carb-42
WM E63 D32 eng-088 carb-42
XP E63 D32 eng-088 carb-42

automatic with A/C
BS E63 D32 eng-089 carb-62
JS E63 D32 eng-089 carb-62
RM E63 D32 eng-089 carb-62
XP E63 D32 eng-089 carb-62

automatic with N96
RM E63 D32 eng-088 carb-65

Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/12/08 02:18 PM

Quote:

Dan, what can you add to this?

per my interpretation of the Parts Catalog ...
there are five 4bbl carbs for ECS (N95) 383s. HP & non-HP. A/C doesn't affect the carb choice.

383 manual - E & B-body - with ECS (N95).......... orange HP engine 335hp
---------- Holley R4217-A ----------part number 3418 537 on b'cast 37
383 Manual - E & B-body - with ECS (N95) & with "fresh air" (N96). orange HP engine 335hp
---------- Holley R4738-1A ----------part number 3512 974 on b'cast 74

383 automatic - E, C & B-body - with ECS (N95)................... blue engine 330hp
---------- Carter 4734S ----------part number 3418 541 on b'cast 41

383 automatic - E & B-body - with ECS (N95)..................... orange HP engine 335hp
---------- Holley R4218-A ----------part number 3418 543 on b'cast 43
383 Automatic - E & B-body - with ECS (N95) & with "fresh air" (N96). orange HP engine 335hp
---------- Holley R4739-1A ----------part number 3512 975 on b'cast 75

Posted By: rm23j8g

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/12/08 02:20 PM

This is the problem I ran into with the carb lists.
There is a carb for automatic with N95.
Another for automatic with A/C.
But I couldn't find any listing for automatic, A/C AND N95.
I'm assuming that none of those broadcast sheets you have for automatic A/C cars have N95?

Posted By: rm23j8g

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/12/08 02:29 PM

Sorry 6bbl...you beat me in there with your last post.
So the consensus is, as I'm reading here...is that, with an orange HP automatic N95, the only thing it could be is a Holley R4218, broadcast sheet code 43.
Okay, I better start looking for one...but I sure wouldn't mind seeing a sheet coded as such!

Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/12/08 02:33 PM

I think the ...

383 automatic - E & B-body - with ECS (N95)..................... orange HP engine 335hp
---------- Holley R4218-A ----------part number 3418 543 on b'cast 43

... is your only choice as the with A/C carb is listed as w/o ECS.

383 automatic - E & B-body - with A/C (H51) & w/o ECS....... orange HP engine 335hp engine on b'cast 089
---------- Holley R4369-A ----------part number 3418 562 on b'cast 62

Posted By: rm23j8g

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/12/08 02:36 PM

Quote:

I think the ...

383 automatic - E & B-body - with ECS (N95)..................... orange HP engine 335hp
---------- Holley R4218-A ----------part number 3418 543 on b'cast 43

... is your only choice as the with A/C carb is listed as w/o ECS.

383 automatic - E & B-body - with A/C (H51) & w/o ECS....... orange HP engine 335hp engine on b'cast 089
---------- Holley R4369-A ----------part number 3418 562 on b'cast 62

That was my big issue....which option took priority..wondering if the N95 trumped the A/C or not.
Thanks for your help!

Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/12/08 03:18 PM

Anybody have a b'cast to confirm the following carb (all 1970 "N" E63) applications/numbers?

b'cast - CARB - 37 - HOLLEY
---- California B or E body with 3/4-speed (with & without A/C)
** (Road Runner, Super Bee, 'Cuda, Challenger R/T) ??**

b'cast - CARB - 38 - Carter
---- automatic B, C or E body
** (4-door/wagon Bs, any Cs, Gran Coupes, Challenger SEs) ??**

b'cast - CARB - 40 - Carter
---- automatic B, C or E body with A/C
** (4-door/wagon Bs, any Cs, Gran Coupes, Challenger SEs) ??**

b'cast - CARB - 41 - Carter
---- California automatic B, C or E body (with & without A/C)
** (4-door/wagon Bs, any Cs, Gran Coupes, Challenger SEs) ??**

b'cast - CARB - 43 - HOLLEY
---- California automatic B or E body (with & without A/C)
** (Road Runner, Super Bee, Charger, 'Cuda, Challenger R/T) ??**

b'cast - CARB - 64 - HOLLEY
---- B-body with 3/4-speed & RAMCHARGER/AIR GRABBER
** (Road Runner, Super Bee) ??**

b'cast - CARB - 74 - HOLLEY
---- California B-body with 3/4-speed & RAMCHARGER/AIR GRABBER
** (Road Runner, Super Bee) ??**

b'cast - CARB - 75 - HOLLEY
---- California automatic B-body with RAMCHARGER/AIR GRABBER
** (Road Runner, Super Bee) ??**

Yes, No, Maybe!!!????

Posted By: Mastershake340

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/12/08 03:49 PM

Quote:

Anybody have a b'cast to confirm the following carb (all 1970 "N" E63) applications/numbers?

b'cast - CARB - 38 - Carter
---- automatic B, C or E body
** (4-door/wagon Bs, any Cs, Gran Coupes, Challenger SEs) ??**

Yes, No, Maybe!!!????

I've got a copy of the BCS for another JH27N0B car similiar to my car's which has a 38 carb code.

Posted By: BJohnson

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/12/08 03:54 PM

What about all the engines that got Carters instead of Holleys when Holley had the leaking problem?

Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/12/08 04:09 PM

Quote:

What about all the engines that got Carters instead of Holleys when Holley had the leaking problem?

Is this an "old wives tale" or is there a TSB or similar that confirms this actually took place?

Posted By: Mastershake340

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/12/08 04:18 PM

Quote:

[quoteI've got a copy of the BCS for another JH27N0B car similiar to my car's which has a 38 carb code.

Thanks Brad,

& the engine code is?

Engine code is 085.

Posted By: 62maxwgn

Re: My head hurts too....... - 04/12/08 04:56 PM

Quote:

Ya know, I read codes to educate & amuse myself, this post just continues to beat a dead horse...My head hurts so I think I'll jump in my JS27N0B & ....

I'll go drive something!
I hope the end is near.

Posted By: ebodyseast

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 04/12/08 06:11 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I think the ...

383 automatic - E & B-body - with ECS (N95)..................... orange HP engine 335hp
---------- Holley R4218-A ----------part number 3418 543 on b'cast 43

... is your only choice as the with A/C carb is listed as w/o ECS.

383 automatic - E & B-body - with A/C (H51) & w/o ECS....... orange HP engine 335hp engine on b'cast 089
---------- Holley R4369-A ----------part number 3418 562 on b'cast 62

That was my big issue....which option took priority..wondering if the N95 trumped the A/C or not.
Thanks for your help!

---------------------------------------------
Another satisfied customer.

Hey rm23j8g - I took some heat keeping this thread alive that guys maybe like in your situation can find these answers made of gold. If I can help just one guy, like you, it was worth it. I bet the others feel the same since some continued to join in. Git R Done.

I like that 6bblgt produced a 084 engine for us, the Challenger R/T 383 4 speed with a/c.

We all see an 084 doesn't have a Carter carb like I prematurely forecasted. Its easy to see why I concluded an 084 engine would wear a Carter since we've learned blue equals Carter equals 330hp.
6bblgt is right to remind us there are no Carter carbs listed for either manual transmissions.

What in the world is that poor little R/T doing with a 084 330hp engine code. Some might cringe to know of such evil treacherousness!! We see it shares the same 37 Holley carb like the 087 code 335hp engines did. Too bad we also don't know what color it is/was.

Even though the list states this engine combo is blue, 6bbgt knows alot more than I do and I like his style. Maybe one will surface later to confirm or deny. Can't be too hard to find another 383 'Cuda or R/T or two with a 4 speed and A/C...can it? Furyman posted us a picture of one - a mangled up green 'Cuda 383 with 4 speed and a/c orange engine, I wonder if he has the BCS sheet and if it is also an 084/37 combo too.

Cause its either that, or Dan just blew the lid on this whole thing and found us the first 'public' documentation in 38 years of an R/T that may or does NOT have a 383 Magnum.

There is no code for 383 manual w/o A/C 335hp orange listed, the same anomolies may or do exist as with the 084/087 engine.

So many members came in to give their input that together we've all shed enough light on this subject.

I had a good idea that only a very small percentage of the Super Commando and Magnum 383's wound up in the base model E Bodys. To everyone, thanks for helping to explain the few possible reasons why guys. All the rest of those HP motors found their rightful homes into safe places like 1 Wild RT's R/T. No hard feelings. Hey 1 Wild RT, after reading this, what is your engine code/carb code/engine color? Do you hav A/C or not? You have an N code '70...

62mxwgn is the big dog up in Pa. That Superbird of his is hard to miss in a small town or anywhere for that fact. Him and J Bauchman are the old dogs that know Mopar like nobody else. Tony told me I needed to listen to everything you say, never had the honor to hear or meet you. If you've grown tired of this it's really time for me to step off.

The squeaky wheel always gets the grease.

P.S.
The b5 conv is not...repeat...not bogus - that is if any one cares.

Posted By: Diego (not Ted)

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 05/10/08 09:40 PM

So I remember on a thread someone was saying they haven't seen a road test for a 383 Barracuda. I found one. Was the discussion in this thread?

Anyway, it's a '69 383-S car, which was rated at 330hp. It appeared in "Supercars Annual '69". This magazine was notorious for making things up if they didn't like the way they were treated by the manufacturers, so take this for what it's worth.

The best time they got with a 4-speed 3.91-geared coupe was 14.12 at 97mph.

Posted By: beepbeep

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 05/10/08 09:52 PM

Quote:

I had a good idea that only a very small percentage of the Super Commando and Magnum 383's wound up in the base model E Bodys.

Both Plymouth 383-4's were called Super Commandos, Dodge had the 383-4 and 383 Magnum.

Posted By: ebodyseast

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 05/11/08 12:16 AM

The road test I mentioned is from the book 'Plymouth Barracuda 1964-74' by Brooklands Books/Motorbooks Int. In it are a bunch of tests of Barracudas from back in the day.

The '69 'Cuda 440 test article is my favorite.

Anyway, the article is from 'Road Test' - June 1970.
Best time of 383 with automatic was 14.4/98.97mph.

Best time by same mag in Feb '70 for a 340 'Cuda is 15.3.

Carlife got a 340 'Cuda to do 15.0/94mph in same month.

Car and Driver got an AAR to do 14.3/99.5mph in July of '70.

Posted By: Diego (not Ted)

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 05/11/08 02:56 AM

I know it was not you who was curious about the road test for an A-body 383. I just don't remember if this was the thread where it was posed whether any tests existed with a car like this.

Writing this, I do recall a Hot Rod test of a '67 car that did 15.2, I think?

Posted By: Triggerfish

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 05/11/08 05:25 AM

I've been glued to this post & trying to digest all the research & info brought out by many. I gotta ad one fact that I know first hand. I bought a brand new 70 Cuda, Lemon Twist & black, Super Commando 383 4 speed, 3:23's, AC, rear window slats, magnum 500's. Paid $6k cash & drove it off the showroom of Sam Krug Chrysler Plymouth in Vegas. I remember vividly the 335 HP orange 383 w/ the Holley carb. I know for a fact it was rated over 10:1 compression & used the factory literature to impress my bro w/ his 69 Charger R/T. I buried the speedo (past 150) racing my friend's 63 fulie Vette. Only mod I had was headers. Ran like a raped ape...even with AC.

Posted By: ebodyseast

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 05/11/08 06:09 AM

And one member here said "NO ONE CARES!"

Thanks for staying glued Triggerfish, but it seems this thread has died out of its own fruition.

I'm convinced - more so from stories such as yours and the pic of Furyman's car, that the 4 speed A/C cars were also 335hp, even when that list Dan presented of engine codes and engine colors basically leads one to think otherwise.

I bet having that baby buried at 150 was balls out my new friend! Thats livin the dream fellas.

Posted By: Diego (not Ted)

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 05/11/08 11:50 AM

Anecdotes are not good ways to document a car. Especially from a guy who claims he spent $6000 on a 383 'Cuda.

I thought we were over this already - you can hope all you want, but that doesn't make something real. There are plenty of guys here who know a hell of a lot and have given you advice, and by ignoring them, you run the risk of giving us a car where some owner in the future will swear his car is 1 of 1 because it has a certain configuration that perhaps never existed.

Posted By: Triggerfish

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 05/11/08 04:59 PM

The Vette had lower gears, after racing 10 miles down from Lees Canyon ski area, we got to US 95 toward Vegas & punched off ag 30 mph. The heavy Cuda pulled away around 90 & the front end started floating & porpoising around 120-155. All on F70 Polyglass tires, (prone to the fiberglass belts separating). Lookin back, that ranks w/ the most stupid thing I ever did!

My bro & many of our friends had Mopars & were always working on them or at Las Vegas Dodge trying to get the mechanics to "super tune" our cars for the latest edge. (Here's a pic of my bro staging a pic for the yearbook in 69 w/ this CHarger R/T. Sticker price was $4900.

Call it what you want, I don't have to prove anything to anyone. I know for a fact what my Cuda had. I'll bet someone will tell me my engint block was blue cause my Cuda had AC, but when I put the headers on, I sure don't think I was colored blind.
Not trying to fuel an arguement, but don't really care what other's think, cause I know its the truth & that's all that matters.

Attached picture 4419911-prayyouhaveinsuranceweb.jpg

Attached picture 4419911-prayyouhaveinsuranceweb.jpg

Posted By: ebodyseast

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 05/11/08 07:34 PM

Quote:

Anecdotes are not good ways to document a car. Especially from a guy who claims he spent $6000 on a 383 'Cuda.

I thought we were over this already - you can hope all you want, but that doesn't make something real.

There are plenty of guys here who know a hell of a lot and have given you advice, and by ignoring them, you run the risk of giving us a car where some owner in the future will swear his car is 1 of 1 because it has a certain configuration that perhaps never existed.

-------------------------------------------------

Hope is the thing in life that makes it worth living my new friend. My only hopes were that I had a 335hp/orange engine, and yes, there are many here with what they do know who have set me straight, I have ignored nobodody here - so i have lost hope that my car has an HP/orange engine.

Its a matching numbers block that is blue with not a speck of orange, auto and A/C - so I cannot and will never claim otherwise. The only HP part on my engine are valve springs with surge dampers and a cam I have not yet been able to measure its stock lift to see if it is up tp 440HP specs. There is still speculation if a 330hp engine would even have HP springs. I do have many here to thank (thanks guys) for what they've brought to the table, those same cars like mine also have convinced me.

But there is a whole nother realm of '70 383 cars out there unlike mine and it has been attempted to set the facts straight on these other cars. I have little to gain except education/knowledge of my favorite cars, E Bodys. Its been my pleasure to hear from most of these great owners, some, not so great.

The only questions that have remained are to get the BCS info on those 383 BH/JH/BP/JP/BS/JS cars that were not covered.

Mainly, a 1970 383 4 speed w/ A/C in any model confiuration. Nobody has given BCS engine codes for this example except for one person, and this engine code they provided is 'listed' as a blue 330hp engine - only it wears the Holley carb code too. Nobody has proven yet that these 4 speed/Holley/with A/C engines were orange, only 'stories' - and this is what has been ignored in this thread. I've ignored nobody and only waited for the owners to perhaps kindly provide us here pictorial evidence as to their engine codes and perhaps actual original pictures of the engine installed, and with their testimony, like our latest entry.

So no, this thread has not been completely 'covered' and I'm keeping it alive to help prove what 'most cars' came through with. Mainly, the engine coding differences between a 'Cuda and R/T and their lower performance siblings...like mine.

Like I said way back, how hard is it to find real documentation for 4 speed A/C 383's to help us prove the 'facts'?? The only thing I've ignored is that list Dan presented for this one engine combo. I, like him, think the list is wrong/trumped by the Holley carb code.

Posted By: ECS

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 05/11/08 08:38 PM

I would like to commend you on your unique vehicle and thank you for sharing it�s profile with everyone here. Our hobby continues to grow with the addition of individuals such as yourself and your apologies for previous statements were certainly not necessary. You will find that unless you are in the �fraternity� or have earned your imaginary �right of passage�, comments will be hypocritically called out against you. It never surprises me how some people pass or skip over the MANY instigating rude comments of their friends, only to cry foul when given a defensive taste of their own medicine. Keep up the good work and never let the ill sentiments of others deter your progress! Welcome aboard.

Posted By: Diego (not Ted)

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 05/11/08 11:13 PM

Oh, brother. . . .

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 05/11/08 11:38 PM

If everyone keeps giving more warm fuzzies,this d@mn thing that started as a simple question could go on forever!

Posted By: ebodyseast

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 06/14/08 03:49 AM

One of my car's lost brothers is for sale on Ebay, $90K. First thing I wanted to see was the color of the engine. While it is a BH27 N code 383 4bbl and auto with A/C - the engine is painted orange and the owner claims it is a 335hp 'Cuda engine - it being a June of '70 SPD and mine a July of '70 - there should be little differences...if any. Potential buyers would be wise to do some research.

I emailed the owner and asked if they could provide the line 4 BCS engine code and carb code - as of yet no answer back, and I'm not holding out to hear back from them.

Galen G. may have provided to them that only 4 of the 36 autos came with A/C, so as my car has not yet been GG documented...it may be number 5 of the 36 autos with A/C.
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Just when you thought it was safe to go back into the water... Da Dum, Da dum.

Posted By: Diego (not Ted)

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 06/15/08 02:30 AM

I can't believe this is still going on . . .

The advertised hp for a 383 'Cuda is 335, regardless whether it came with AC or not. As this is a Barracuda (BH), it should be listed as 330hp, so the seller wrote it incorrectly.

Additionally, there are no numbers that show how many were built with AC. I suspect they are quoting Galen's Registry and using it as "fact" rather than "registered."

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 06/15/08 11:41 AM

Quote:

I can't believe this is still going on . . .

The advertised hp for a 383 'Cuda is 335, regardless whether it came with AC or not. As this is a Barracuda (BH), it should be listed as 330hp, so the seller wrote it incorrectly.

Additionally, there are no numbers that show how many were built with AC. I suspect they are quoting Galen's Registry and using it as "fact" rather than "registered."

What I said a month ago! Some will try to justify anything. Does anybody really care?

On another note,Galen's registry is just that,"Galen's registry".

Posted By: Diego (not Ted)

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 06/15/08 02:14 PM

Well, I think he cares, or he wouldn't be trying to learn about his car.

I just didn't think it would take 7 pages!

Posted By: ebodyseast

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 06/17/08 04:38 AM

Looks like you two clowns finally cracked the case with your in depth knowledge on the subject.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 06/17/08 12:59 PM

Quote:

Looks like you two clowns finally cracked the case with your in depth knowledge on the subject.

Yep,took this long for you to figure it out!

Now go play with you're N code Barraminnow!

Posted By: Diego (not Ted)

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 06/17/08 02:01 PM

I really don't get it . . . there are some very knowledgeable people here - I am not one of them - who have given their advice, which didn't fit his perception, so he chose to ignore it. Then you and I get called names because we point this out?

This is a great place to learn, but if he doesn't want to learn, that's his own prerogative. I, for one, welcome him with open arms.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 06/17/08 05:32 PM

Didn't really have a problen with him until he got a little ignorant after an earlier post.lacks a litttle maturity.

Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 06/17/08 05:40 PM

Quote:

Didn't really have a problen with him until he got a little ignorant after an earlier post.lacks a litttle maturity.

Like his sixth-ever post, on his first day! The guy seems to think the earth revolves around him.

Posted By: beepbeep

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 06/17/08 06:39 PM

IIRC "IF" it is an untouched engine, their is a real easy way to find out which engine it is.

Posted By: 69CoronetRT

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 06/17/08 11:38 PM

Quote:

IIRC "IF" it is an untouched engine, their is a real easy way to find out which engine it is.

That would take five minutes instead of 2+ months and nine pages. That's way too easy.....

Posted By: ebodyseast

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built DELETED - 06/18/08 06:53 AM

Post deleted by 69DartGT

Posted By: 69CoronetRT

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 06/18/08 12:02 PM

Quote:

Now that two of the top guys here I totally respect (Beepbeep and 69CoronetRT) are also responding again I have to ask... what is the dealy-O?

Joe can speak for himself but my comment was not directed at you personally or your car. It was more an observation that we here at Moparts can get bogged down in the process and sometimes tend to take the long way around to get to an answer when there may be easier and quicker ways to get to the same place.

What could have been finished in 1-2 pages has taken 9 and wound up in unnecessary name calling and sniping at fellow Board members.

That was my point.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built DELETED - 06/18/08 01:04 PM

Post deleted by 69DartGT

Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 06/18/08 02:09 PM

The mods should lock this. It certainly serves NO further purpose!

Posted By: Diego (not Ted)

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 06/18/08 02:10 PM

Quote:

What could have been finished in 1-2 pages has taken 9 and wound up in unnecessary name calling and sniping at fellow Board members.

Perhaps that's true, but I also see a stubborn habit of only listening to answers that jibe with his perception instead of listening to those who speak from experience. The recent post on that eBay car only proves that point. That's not to say everything is cast in stone or that there are people who have "the answer", but there are some people here who have played around with these cars since the 1970s or deal with them professionally today - they have something to offer. Should their views go without a critical eye? Of course not! But I don't see that going on here.

Of course, the Net is an imperfect form of communication, and lord knows joining a site is not always as simple as posting an entry in a thread. I hope, whatever the case, he knows more about his car and it'll be done in the manner that makes him happy.

Posted By: ebodyseast

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built DELETED - 06/19/08 06:16 AM

Post deleted by 69DartGT

Posted By: BS27R1B

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 06/19/08 12:00 PM

All this dribble over a barraCUDA with a boat anchor engine.

Who Cares???

Get real and drop a real engine in it.

Sales numbers mean very little sometimes for a vehicle. Just ask anyone that has owned a Hemi 4 door.

Posted By: 62maxwgn

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 06/19/08 12:08 PM

Well,since you singled me out,I'll take the time to respond to you coment!

Pal,you need to cut out the crap.If you go back and read 99% of my posts over the 5+ years I have been on here you will find I don't go for this stuff.That is not what this forum is about.All I see is that you ask a question and didn't get the answers you expected.With your attitude,don't expect everyone to respond as you wish.You really need to think about what you are saying before you post.

As for my Superbird,no I do not drive around with my nose in the air.I drive the car I have owned for 26yrs on a regular basis.Its a car.You are also wrong on the "bad a$$ attitude remark".You don't know me so that is a moot point and a statement you are not qualified to make.If some here have ruffled your feathers,get over it.You brought most of it on yourself.Enjoy this forum for what it is,not what you want it to be.If that doesn't suit your taste,go somewhere else.

Now have a nice day,life's short.

Posted By: Diego (not Ted)

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 06/19/08 01:29 PM

I was doing my best to give the benefit of the doubt in my long-winded, roundabout way. I didn't want you to have any sort of "cliquish" pressures scare you off. But I think you just don't get it.

Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 06/19/08 01:53 PM

ebodyseast....I am honestly embarrased that we have interest in the same cars in common. Thanks for joining Moparts and lowering its quality as a forum to to discuss what captivates us.

Have a good day sir.

Posted By: DPelletier

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 06/19/08 04:25 PM

Quote:

enjoy your vacation

No it's not OK. I hit the "notify mod" button, but I see someone has beaten me to it. This sort of personal attack and name calling isn't allowed on Moparts. Besides, it's just childish.

If you're still here after this thread, try to limit your posts to something smaller than a novella and avoid any comments about other members' wives!

Bill, Doug and even Diego have been fairly restrained IMO.....so far.

Dave

Posted By: RangerDan440

Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built - 06/20/08 01:54 AM

enough already

How many N code BH27 Barracudas built