pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,263
Southwestern Ontario Canada
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Quote:
“Will an Alterkation make a muscle car handle like a vette?” I don’t know but this is what works for me and I can beat up most corvettes and other fast cars but not all. There are quality packages to make your car handle like that Tupperware [vette] but many of them are out of the common man’s realm. [$$$$$] I have not found anyone running an alterkation like I run my T bars. Since 1990 I have been regularly flogging an E body 4 speed around Watkins Glen Racetrack with Phoenix CMR driving School. The approach since day one has always been it’s a street car that gets driven on the road course. This has always been for fun and to make my car a better driving/handling street car-I think it’s called pro touring now…
Let’s do some math: average of 18 laps per session @ 3.4 miles per lap is 61.2 miles, 4 x a day is 244.8 miles a day for 2 days. 489.6 miles x19 years is 9302 miles. For 5 years I ran the Glen 2x yr so add 2448 miles. 11750 miles. I might know what’s working by now. As the years go by the car & I both have gotten faster and better. I have had some wonderful instructors in the passenger seat and I have been passenger doing HOT laps in cars like Ford GTs, SCCA mustangs, track mustangs, Z06 corvettes etc. In addition to seat time there is classroom instruction & a lot of post run discussion among us as well as helpful advice and the sharing of ideas. My fellow speed demons are always watching my car & lap times-go figure-they are always surprised at the go & whoa…and then again so am I.
I started with 15 inch rallye wheels with 235 60 15 BFG tires, KYB Shocks & stock disc/drum brakes with Velvetouch brake linings front & rear, stock sway bars, engine trans seats and seat belts etc. stock stock stock
In the process I learned the 4 most important items to have on your handling car are: Sticky tires Real seats & seat belts Adjustable shocks Brakes that don’t fade away Everything after that improves on the basics.
Even the stock suspension set up was limited by the tire and shock choice and the overall handling [think lap times] was severely handicapped by not being held firmly in the seat by a 5 pt seat belt.
Let me show you where the money goes
Level Q Sub Zero AAR ‘Cuda as currently configured, the numbers are the $$$$
Tubular UCA urethane bushing RMS Chassis Components 250 Tubular adj strut rods w/rod ends RMS Chassis Components 199 Boxed lca with rubber pin bushing 50 Shocks QA1 adjustable… RMS 580 Springs 160 lbs/in ESPO 260 Urethane Spring bushings ESPO 40 Torsion Bars 1.120 Mopar 150 Sway Bars 1-1/8 front ¾ rear Firm Feel 500 adj front leaf spring hanger 3 position [lowers car] Mopax 100 11/16 Seamless Tie Rod sleeves Firm Feel 175 16:1 Manual Steering Flaming River 400 Brake upgrade: RMS wilwood dynalyte calipers w/12 inch stock rotors, spindles 625 11 drum rear w/small wheel cyl and Velvetouch shoes 150 Bracing across entire pkge tray for seat belts and x braces reinforced for the: Corbeau seats and 5 pt belts 1000 Front spoiler MAS 60 Passon Alum OD 4 sp 2799 3.55 sure grip Synthetic lubricants Driveshaft Denny’s 400 Accusump 400 Aluminum head six pak 416 Muscle Motors/Repine 400 rwhp 8000 MSD ignition 200 16x8 Alum wheels 1000 255-50ZR16 competition tire Toyo RA1 1000 Air ducts on the front rotors, no splash shields Clutch 10.95 Custom “Emerald” by Rochester Clutch & Brake w/6 paddle Velvetouch disc 300 SFI flywheel 300 Good tach SW 275 Light Battery in trunk 200 Seat belts 250
Body flex-every year the car gets an inspection, every year there are no surprises. 11000 miles and counting…want to come and inspect yourself, pm me for an appointment. Nothing has broken, twisted or cracked & the doors, trunk & hood close as they always have. I do not beat the equipment and that makes a difference in the body stresses. Design me an X brace for the floor pan that fits like a glove as has been suggested here and I will install it and be faster than I am now. Smoooth is fast and you can only go so fast smoothly. No serious body stresses when smooth and it is such a blast to run up and down the gear box with your foot buried in the throttle. If you hate Miatas on your butt then make sure you have enough ponies for the straight-aways.
If you spend any time flogging the road course you will meet many a driver who gets the gleam in their eye as they talk about the car “rotating thru the turn”. When the car finally does “rotate” you have arrived. To get my po$ to “rotate” the 3 key items were seats, seatbelts, and TIRES more than anything else...Yes my car rotates and that is a treat!
Rear spring rates: Remember I have street car that runs the road course. I ran 115lb/inch 5 leaf springs that were not enough. I currently have installed ESPO 6 leaves that come in at 160 lbs/inch. I had to soften up the rear bar by using rubber sway bar bushings. I am thinking about removing the smallest leaf from each spring to reduce the rate slightly. Cost and availability was the reason I used the ESPO 6 leaves. I am not dissatisfied with the results so far but in hindsight I wish I had started with the 5 leaf instead of the 6 leaf as my first choice. I have a nice set of lightly used E body six leave springs for sale…
Shocks: KYB, Edelbrock and most others “porpoise” when hot. Nuff said. With every car being different there is no one size fits all so adjustable shocks are the only way to go. Konis are too stiff for my SOTP meter. Remember street car driven on the roadcourse.
Tires & wheels: 16x8 wheels with the same 255-50 ZR16 competition tires. I am not going to argue with anyone about other tire/wheel combinations as this is what works extremely well with out compromise and shoe horns.
Several years ago I helped prepared a common man’s 440+6 real Superbird for the Glen and the results were phenomenal. I am looking for the paperwork so I can post the hardware and costs. It was not expensive; the owner drives the bird a lot and loves the car.
BTW I can’t out run a Z06, an AC Cobra, a Ford GT or Tim Werner'68 Valiant but I make them work hard for the lead.
WOW!!! The information on this site can be priceless. I know that I will never see or experience what you have personally accomplished. I am happy to learn from your experience. Thanks for putting things in perspective.
Too many cars, too many parts, too little coin, too little space to work in, too little time left to make it all happen!
Update: down to one ride, still too many parts, a little more jingle in the pocket, gaining space, and it's going to happen this year!
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