ram87, so it wasn't so much that they didn't run well generally, but were I assume at the lower end of the class weight/factor wise. 12.60s for a stocker RR sounds pretty good to me from back then, but I assume the 440 GTXs were going a bit better than that in stock class. I know the 440 SS/F GTXs ran in same class as the Z28s but all the old ET and MPH #s I see that the 440 Mopars always quicker and faster than the SB Camaros, like 11.70s at 115-119 for the GTXS compared to 12.0s and 11.90s at 112-114 for the Chebbies. Dave Stricklers Z28 was dominant but it didn't run the #s the GTXs in same class ran.