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accident at Phoenix?
#619797
02/21/10 04:53 PM
02/21/10 04:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,763
Walton's Mountain, Pa
Steve1118
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Walton's Mountain, Pa
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They are reporting on another board that there has been a bad accident at Phoenix, involving a fuel dragster. Apparently somethng came apart, and a woman spectator has lost her life after being hit by a slick that was tossed into the stands.....I pray not. Has anyone heard anything?
"Old age and treachery trumps youth and enthusiasm, every time!" East Central Director / Chrysler Power Magazine www.reasbeckracing.webs.com
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: ademon]
#619799
02/21/10 05:05 PM
02/21/10 05:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,763
Walton's Mountain, Pa
Steve1118
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Yesterday Vinnie Declegglia destroyed his new PS Avenger, as did old Pro Gordie Rivera.
What I'm getting now is that some parts were tossed into the stands, and an errant drag slick flew over the stands and into the pit area. It has apparently struck Jegs' truck, and then struck someone. They are saying there is a whole area of the pits that has been roped off, and no one is being permitted in that area.
I guess it was Anton Brown's fueler that was involved.
Those cars are too violent and too unpredictable. Make them go back to single mags, smaller blowers, and slow them down.
"Old age and treachery trumps youth and enthusiasm, every time!" East Central Director / Chrysler Power Magazine www.reasbeckracing.webs.com
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: dOrk !]
#619801
02/21/10 05:10 PM
02/21/10 05:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,763
Walton's Mountain, Pa
Steve1118
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It's being discussed on nitromater.com, apparently someone is in phone contact with someone there. It must be a real mess.....doggone it!!! I pray for all involved.
"Old age and treachery trumps youth and enthusiasm, every time!" East Central Director / Chrysler Power Magazine www.reasbeckracing.webs.com
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: dOrk !]
#619804
02/21/10 05:22 PM
02/21/10 05:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,763
Walton's Mountain, Pa
Steve1118
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Apparently it was a middle aged woman on a scooter. You know, now maybe is not the time to say this but NHRA needs to get back to its roots. Slow those things down and go back to quarter mile racing. A single mag, a small blower, limit the size of the fuel pump so they are not quite as violent and uncontrolable. You can still have your fire and smoke, but a five second run at 260 is just as exciting as a 4 whatever at 330. There seems to be some question as to how good the track was....a couple of Pro cars rolled yesterday, it has been rainy and cold all night, and now it is raining again. Apparently earlier today some were questioning the wisdom of trying to get the event in. NHRA has to take a good hard look in the mirror...and re-assess how they do things. It may tee off some big money sponsors, but someone needs to turn this back into more of a sport and less of a business entity. The pits are packed, and now that NHRA serves beer in the pits incidents are just waiting to happen. And, now, this..... 
Last edited by Steve1118; 02/21/10 05:23 PM.
"Old age and treachery trumps youth and enthusiasm, every time!" East Central Director / Chrysler Power Magazine www.reasbeckracing.webs.com
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: ThermoQuad]
#619806
02/21/10 05:25 PM
02/21/10 05:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,763
Walton's Mountain, Pa
Steve1118
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This is also being reported...
"A friend of mine called and said he was standing three people away from the woman that got killed and had to dive to get out of the way of being hit. He said the safety safari ignored the fans pleas to help the lady and were only concerned with Antron. Said it took a good 10 minutes for an ambulance to arrive and by then she was dead. Her husband, who was in a handicapped scooter, was taken to the hospital."
"Old age and treachery trumps youth and enthusiasm, every time!" East Central Director / Chrysler Power Magazine www.reasbeckracing.webs.com
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: Steve1118]
#619807
02/21/10 05:32 PM
02/21/10 05:32 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 34,884
S.E. South Dakota !
bigdad
Still Posting A Lot
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Still Posting A Lot
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S.E. South Dakota !
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Bummer .. It happens why more often than you think at racing events . When god calls yah home he just does .. RIP 
The lips of fools bring them strife, and their mouths invite a beating.Proverbs 18:6
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: Steve1118]
#619808
02/21/10 05:33 PM
02/21/10 05:33 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,544
Syracuse,NY
CompWedgeEngines
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Syracuse,NY
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Geez...what a shame...thats horrible.I think Antron is a pretty decent individual. I cant imagine how he will feel.
I saw Greg Anderson talking the other night about what he thought was a very poorly prepped track. He basically said they need to figure out how to prep the track correctly and many cars were reporting a very slippery surface, and witht he lack of downforce, the ProStocks especially get dancing very quick.
RIP Monte Smith
Your work is a reflection of yourself, autograph it with quality.
WD for Diamond Pistons,Sidewinder cylinder heads, Wiseco, K1 rods and cranks,BAM lifters, Morel lifters, Molnar Technologies, Harland Sharp, Pro Gear, Cometic, King Engine Bearings and many others.
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: ademon]
#619810
02/21/10 05:47 PM
02/21/10 05:47 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,489
Pacifica, CA
Devilbrad
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,489
Pacifica, CA
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Quote:
they need to cover the tires and everything else up, i wont take my kids to one of the fuel events.
Cover them with what? Those tires will go through any body panel at those rpm's. I think a better option is an arched catch fence over the top of the entire track well down through the shutdown area.
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: ThermoQuad]
#619812
02/21/10 06:28 PM
02/21/10 06:28 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 961
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TMP66
super stock
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super stock
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Quote:
Nostalgia Motorsports’ Jim Broome phoned to share that during the NHRA Arizona Nationals first round eliminations Antron Brown’s top fuel dragster crashed shortly before the finish line losing the left rear tire. The tire flew into the crowd instantly killing one woman
Nothing official at this point (3:20 PM) NHRA announced the woman was transported to the hospital and no word on her condition. I wish people would shut the Hell up about unconfirmed rumors/info and stop running their mouths via the damn internet.
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: TMP66]
#619816
02/21/10 07:07 PM
02/21/10 07:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
Quote:
Nostalgia Motorsports’ Jim Broome phoned to share that during the NHRA Arizona Nationals first round eliminations Antron Brown’s top fuel dragster crashed shortly before the finish line losing the left rear tire. The tire flew into the crowd instantly killing one woman
Nothing official at this point (3:20 PM) NHRA announced the woman was transported to the hospital and no word on her condition. I wish people would shut the Hell up about unconfirmed rumors/info and stop running their mouths via the damn internet.
don't think it's a rumor
TRACKSIDE TRAGEDY
Nostalgia Motorsports’ Jim Broome phoned to share that during the NHRA Arizona Nationals first round eliminations Antron Brown’s top fuel dragster crashed shortly before the finish line losing the left rear tire. The tire flew into the crowd instantly killing one woman then leaping over the nostalgia Funny Car teams Powers Steel, Jolly Rogers and Candies & Hughes’s racecar trailers before slamming into Steve Plueger’s hauler. The tire caved in the hauler’s door and smashed out the window before coming to a final rest. It is reported that the female spectator was pushing another woman in a wheelchair just below the grandstands when she was struck by the tire. NHRA medical and safety crew pronounced her dead on the scene. This is a somber reminder of the dangers involved with any form of racing and our hearts go out to the victim’s family.
RIP
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: mopacltd]
#619819
02/21/10 07:51 PM
02/21/10 07:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 465
Oconomowoc, WI.
Cudahlr
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 465
Oconomowoc, WI.
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From Competition Plus http://www.competitionplus.com/index.php/drag-racing/news/13401-woman-injured-on-brown-crashA female attending the NHRA Arizona Nationals received serious injuries today after being struck by debris at Firebird Int'l Raceway. She was transported by helicopter to Good Samaritan Medical Center for treatment. The debris came from Antron Brown's dragster following an incident during the first round of eliminations. Brown was not injured but went to Chandler Regional Hospital at the insistence of his team.
Last edited by Cudahlr; 02/21/10 07:53 PM.
1968 Barracuda 360/727 11.20 @ 121 mph 421 rwhp
1985 Harley Sportster Bobber
2006 Ram 2500 sport - The Cudahlr
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: TMP66]
#619823
02/21/10 10:12 PM
02/21/10 10:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 268
pa
Kyle Reasbeck
enthusiast
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enthusiast
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pa
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Quote:
Quote:
Nostalgia Motorsports’ Jim Broome phoned to share that during the NHRA Arizona Nationals first round eliminations Antron Brown’s top fuel dragster crashed shortly before the finish line losing the left rear tire. The tire flew into the crowd instantly killing one woman
Nothing official at this point (3:20 PM) NHRA announced the woman was transported to the hospital and no word on her condition. I wish people would shut the Hell up about unconfirmed rumors/info and stop running their mouths via the damn internet.
ESPN is reporting that a woman spectator was killed, confirmed by the police dept. there. Rest in Peace, prayers sent.
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: Moparnut426]
#619828
02/21/10 10:59 PM
02/21/10 10:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
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Quote:
Crazy day of racing @ firebird. Sad to hear about the death, thought and prayers to the family members. They do nee some tall fences though. I know its a pain to watch through a fance, but that beats debri hitting ya.
Kasey
how tall would you make the fence? that tire was 20' up in the air. as sad as it is being around racing is dangerous and not a lot you can do to prevent an accident like that.
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: Quicktree]
#619830
02/21/10 11:06 PM
02/21/10 11:06 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,008
Finally a HUSKER again
Moparnut426
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Mar 2007
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Finally a HUSKER again
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Quote:
Quote:
Crazy day of racing @ firebird. Sad to hear about the death, thought and prayers to the family members. They do nee some tall fences though. I know its a pain to watch through a fance, but that beats debri hitting ya.
Kasey
how tall would you make the fence? that tire was 20' up in the air. as sad as it is being around racing is dangerous and not a lot you can do to prevent an accident like that.
It didnt get 20 ft up untill it got outside the guard rail, and gained momentum. The fence at 18FT might have helpped if it was 10ft on either side of the track.
Just a thought??
KAsey
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: Redsled]
#619831
02/21/10 11:08 PM
02/21/10 11:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,763
Walton's Mountain, Pa
Steve1118
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Walton's Mountain, Pa
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I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but it's time to slow those fuel cars down. The accident rate in the past several years has been very high....the last period I remember being like this was the 67-69 period when all the cars were being sawed in half by slider clutches.
It seems to me that the sport, professionally, is at a crossroads. NASCAR had the same decision to make back around 1970 or so when the winged cars were running speeds actually faster than what they run today.
My way of thinking is that those cars are so powerful, so violent, and so quick that it is almost impossible to react if something goes wrong. The driver just belts himself in and goes for the ride.
They can be slowed down without sacrificing the show. Smaller blowers, single mags, and a limit on fuel pump size would be a good place to start.
Instead, my fear is that NHRA will make some sweeping rule change, applying some new rule to everyone from TF to the regular bracket guy to spend several hundred dollars on the latest trick from some sponsor that just happens to post some contingency money. They will do this rather than make some changes in the way the fuel classes are run, lest they tick off some big money sponsor or Fuel owner.
Did you hear Greg Anderson's comments regarding the Pro Stockers? What were they doing running when the track was in that shape? NHRA hosts Full Throttle events one on top of the other, no break, no latitude to change the schedule to make things right. It is all about TV, and the "show must go on".
I am sorry for my cynicism, but NHRA has basically lost credibility to me, and has for several years. I remember when the motto was "dedicated to safety". I really don't like feeling this way about the grandfather of drag racing organizations. But, I do.
The more I see what is going on, the more I continue to love Nostalgia racing. Give me my Nostalgia Super Stocks any day.
"Old age and treachery trumps youth and enthusiasm, every time!" East Central Director / Chrysler Power Magazine www.reasbeckracing.webs.com
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: Moparnut426]
#619832
02/21/10 11:18 PM
02/21/10 11:18 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,886
Bowling Green KY / Nashville, ...
300by500
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2005
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Bowling Green KY / Nashville, ...
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Very sad to hear. There's a risk to ANYTHING we do, you just hate to see stuff like that.
I used to deliver to the old Diamond P Motorsports offices in Nashville. In their front room was a glass-topped table, the base of which was a Keith Black long-block with a huge hole in the side where a rod had come out of it. It had missed their top-end cameraman (on an elevated lift) by just a few inches during a T/F crash.
A friend of mine in elementary school was hit by a loose tire-wheel from a stock car in the 1970's, and suffered a broken collarbone. My dad; sitting right next to me; was hit in the head with by a good-sized rock at the same track 25 years later. (Mansfield, Ohio, before it was paved.)
I love watching fuel cars at the big-end, but I usually try to sit as high as possible... those parts are moving really fast.
My condolences to those involved.
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: maximum entropy]
#619834
02/21/10 11:27 PM
02/21/10 11:27 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,008
Finally a HUSKER again
Moparnut426
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Mar 2007
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Finally a HUSKER again
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My dad and I were at a local truck pull in Carrol Nebraska about 10 years ago, maybee 15, but there are no grand stands, just nice rolling hills on each side of the track, and we bring lawn chaires. Well my dad was sitting on an old colman aluminum cooler full of beer/pop. A 4x4 super stock was pulling and he had broken the tcase/driveline directly in front of us. He was towed off, and about 3 trucks later dad reaches into the cooler, and there was a few burst cans, and a planitery gear chunk tht had gone through the cooler, and we didnt even know it due to the noise, and excitement. EVERY motorsports event is dangerous, and sad things happen, but as was stated earlier, when the big guy needs ya you have no choice.
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: maximum entropy]
#619835
02/21/10 11:38 PM
02/21/10 11:38 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,977
new jersey usa
11secdart
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,977
new jersey usa
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Its a shame plain and simple RIP mam, I`m not a Greg Anderson fan, I really don`t care for him much. But I respect him credit for speaking up and saying what he did about the track conditions, I`m surprised he wasn`t bleaped out by NHRA/ESPN. He`ll probably get fined because as we all know the NHRA brass doesn`t like being told anything!
68 Dart 410 / 904
92 D150 original owner
21 Ram 1500 Quad Cab, Big Horn , Hemi ,4x4
23 Audi Q5
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: mopacltd]
#619839
02/22/10 12:09 AM
02/22/10 12:09 AM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 316
Utah
dragnduster
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 316
Utah
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Quote:
Why was my original post deleted?
I don't think it was deleted, I just looked at it. It is on page 3 right now.
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: jamesc]
#619842
02/22/10 12:13 AM
02/22/10 12:13 AM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
camastomcat
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
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Quote:
i don't think the average fan has any idea of just how violent these TF cars are, participants generally understand and accept the risks involved. TF has been the premiere drag racing class and in principle limiting them just doesn't seem right. that said they really should put some severe restrictions on the class. as mentioned single mag, fuel pump/blower size etc. i don't know if they're still using the rev limiter but for those engines that's a bad idea. i'm sure a lot of people would object but personally i believe overall it would be better for the sport as a whole. the costs associated with TF have escalated to the point it's severely hurting the class. limiting the class would provide larger fields, greater safety and they would still put on a good show, maybe even go back to 1320. i don't know what happened but it seems they've had trouble over the years with cars shucking tires/wheels and having one of those monstrous things flying around something like this was bound to happen. i know they made changes to the wheels but maybe they're still not strong enough. i doubt fences are the answer even if they limit the class parts could still easily clear any reasonable fence. they should make changes to reduce the potential for cars shucking parts in the first place. it's a shame but it's time to really tighten down on the output of these cars...imho it would do more good than harm.
Well....I was trying to keep my mouth shut....but that's hard for me. The NHRA has turned into the organization everyone loves to hate. Esspecially those like me who are members. But from a small piece of the show like me, it seems they just want to hang around and collect money. Guys like Force, Medlen and Head do the leg work and spend the money for the NHRA, when it comes to safety. And that just names a few. I still can't figure out why the sportsman racer is the one being forced to take classes like the new one for oil and hazardous waste disposal before being able to compete in a national event. When the economy dips, they charge the sportsman, and at the same time cut the pay of their employees. Just a guess, but I'd bet Compton and Light didn't. So if they limit the fuel cars (blower size, single mag, fuel pumps etc) will that insure there will never be another terrible accident at a drag race? Hell no, but it would get us back to drag racing at 1320ft and IMO is needed for that, if nothing else. And they need to find their collective wallets instead of expecting people like Wilkerson to do it for them for nothing. They always try to treat the symptom instead of fixing the sickness, or the line of least resistance. The bottom line is, until the upper managment are thrown out on their ears, things will remain the same. I could go on for days, so I'll stop with that, because I still love this stupid sport.
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: FM370RR]
#619845
02/22/10 12:54 AM
02/22/10 12:54 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,363
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,363
Las Vegas
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Tragic day for sure. Not a good weekend at all for the NHRA. Seems with two Pro Stockers upside down and two Super Gas cars in the wall along with a few TD guys not being able to make it down
the track that they are sure missing something. I seem to recall this being an issue at maybe the Z Max race last year as well. Something about the track conditions for the fuel guys being way wrong for the rest of us. hmmm.
Well I see they have moved the remainder of Pro Stock elimiations to the Gators, to be run during time trials there. Seems the Pro Stock guys said either move it or we will not run.
I also see they will not run the Sportsman eliminations from this race til next Friday during what was to be the Div 7 opener. I was planning on being in Phoenix on Thursday to get a few shots at the track during the scheduled T&T as we have not run this car there before and need the data. Now it is looking like IF I go to the Divisional I maybe not even get to run the track til Saturday and at best will get two shots before we race. Of course with rain in the forecast next Saturday that may be wishful thinking. I am thinking maybe I need to reconsider my plans. Long haul for nothing really.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: camastomcat]
#619846
02/22/10 12:54 AM
02/22/10 12:54 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,448
Phoenix, AZ
MoparBilly
master
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Posts: 4,448
Phoenix, AZ
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Quote:
I could go on for days, so I'll stop with that, because I still love this stupid sport.
Truer words were never spoken!!
Everyone I've talked to on the scene knew the injured woman was dead, unfortunately. But to pronounce that at the scene would have meant a stoppage of the event, and an official police investigation on the grounds, so she had to be whisked away to be pronounced at the hospital and the show could go on. It's a sickening reality, but it's standard protocol for any large sporting or public event in this country.
Steve 1118 I think you are overcenter on many of your NHRA comments, but I agree 100 percent with the Idea that it's time to limit pump/mag/blowers in the fuel classes.
I think fences are a bad idea, I dont want to see a blow-over getting entangled in a fence...but the sport changes constantly so we have to look at every option...
"Livin' in a powder keg and givin' off sparks"
4 Street cars, 5 Race engines
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: MoparBilly]
#619848
02/22/10 01:14 AM
02/22/10 01:14 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,363
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,363
Las Vegas
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Billy, I already was planning on D6, Boise or Medford, maybe now I will do both and throw Seattle in the mix too. Was already gonna skip Tucson to far from here, to close together. Besides i will have more fun at the MATS. Now with this deal looks like I will be baggin Phoenix as well. Oh well maybe next year.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: Steve1118]
#619849
02/22/10 01:32 AM
02/22/10 01:32 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,245
Between a rock & a hard place
cudadoug
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,245
Between a rock & a hard place
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Quote:
I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but it's time to slow those fuel cars down. The accident rate in the past several years has been very high....the last period I remember being like this was the 67-69 period when all the cars were being sawed in half by slider clutches.
It seems to me that the sport, professionally, is at a crossroads. NASCAR had the same decision to make back around 1970 or so when the winged cars were running speeds actually faster than what they run today.
My way of thinking is that those cars are so powerful, so violent, and so quick that it is almost impossible to react if something goes wrong. The driver just belts himself in and goes for the ride.
They can be slowed down without sacrificing the show. Smaller blowers, single mags, and a limit on fuel pump size would be a good place to start.
Instead, my fear is that NHRA will make some sweeping rule change, applying some new rule to everyone from TF to the regular bracket guy to spend several hundred dollars on the latest trick from some sponsor that just happens to post some contingency money. They will do this rather than make some changes in the way the fuel classes are run, lest they tick off some big money sponsor or Fuel owner.
Did you hear Greg Anderson's comments regarding the Pro Stockers? What were they doing running when the track was in that shape? NHRA hosts Full Throttle events one on top of the other, no break, no latitude to change the schedule to make things right. It is all about TV, and the "show must go on".
I am sorry for my cynicism, but NHRA has basically lost credibility to me, and has for several years. I remember when the motto was "dedicated to safety". I really don't like feeling this way about the grandfather of drag racing organizations. But, I do.
The more I see what is going on, the more I continue to love Nostalgia racing. Give me my Nostalgia Super Stocks any day.
Steve, well said. I agree, single mags, pumps and slow the blowers down. They could still have a 4.80-.90/300 QUARTER MILE show and be alot safer than they are now. You're also dead on about NASCAR; those 3500+ lb cars simply weren't designed to run 200 mph and they took the steps NHRA needs to. I think they are still "dedicated to safety", but the dog is out of the yard and NOW they are trying to "fix the fence".
A sad day (again) for motorsports. I wish the best possible for all involved.
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: MoparBilly]
#619850
02/22/10 02:25 AM
02/22/10 02:25 AM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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It happens at small circle tracks more often than you would think. Just a few years back a young girl was killed at the local 81 Speedway when a tire went into the stands.
Accidents happen.
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: qwkmopardan]
#619852
02/22/10 04:41 AM
02/22/10 04:41 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,667
Arizona
Chris'sBarracuda
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,667
Arizona
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Billy D was there and said the tire went right through where we always pit. Glad I wasn't there now.  Prayers for the family. RIP to the innocent woman.. Chris.. 
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#619853
02/22/10 04:49 AM
02/22/10 04:49 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,667
Arizona
Chris'sBarracuda
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master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,667
Arizona
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Quote:
Billy, I already was planning on D6, Boise or Medford, maybe now I will do both and throw Seattle in the mix too. Was already gonna skip Tucson to far from here, to close together. Besides i will have more fun at the MATS. Now with this deal looks like I will be baggin Phoenix as well. Oh well maybe next year.
Al..
I was planning on testing on Thursday, then making a decision on the race.
Billy D said a S/ST Mustang crashed a pair behind Jeff Jackson. Only 2 pair ran first round, then they stopped them for the show.. Luckily.. 
Then the Pro Stockers revolted together and said they refused to run. They basically told NHRA to DQ all of them.. Good for them..  Way to stick together.
Funny thing about Firebird is that the Fuelers seem to get down the track there fairly well, but real cars have a big problem.. 
BTW my front end paint was matched so badly, I would have rather had primer.. Man am I steamed about it.. Don't know if I'll have time to fix it.. 
Chris.. 
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: dragnduster]
#619854
02/22/10 05:38 AM
02/22/10 05:38 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
dOrk !
The village idiot's idiot
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The village idiot's idiot
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
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Quote:
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Why was my original post deleted?
I don't think it was deleted, I just looked at it. It is on page 3 right now.
Page 3 ? ... your post here is on "page 1.5" !!
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: Quicktree]
#619856
02/22/10 08:42 AM
02/22/10 08:42 AM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 970
Backwater, PA
bwdst6
Bob George Racing #1 Fan
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Bob George Racing #1 Fan
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 970
Backwater, PA
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Quote:
how tall would you make the fence? that tire was 20' up in the air. as sad as it is being around racing is dangerous and not a lot you can do to prevent an accident like that.
Stronger and more numerous wheel studs!
Last edited by bwdst6; 02/22/10 08:44 AM.
This post is available in double vision where drunk.
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: quickd100]
#619857
02/22/10 09:09 AM
02/22/10 09:09 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
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Accidents happen at racing events ( pick your venue )and they will continue to happen at racing events. IMO, the frequincy is less now than it was 50 years ago, so I think NHRA has, for the most part, stayed ahead of the curve. I don't agree with the 1000 foot change, as it detracks too much from the foundation of drag racing itself, but limiting to 1 mag /fuel pump would be a way to go. Each accident has to be looked at individualy and if it can be addressed, great, but you will never eliminate accidents at racing events. Unfortunately, this type of thing makes for great press with the news media ( "the bubble headed bleach blonde comes on at 5" )and todays information highway travels at the speed of light.
Fastest 300
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: Rhinodart]
#619859
02/22/10 10:46 AM
02/22/10 10:46 AM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,257
acworth / N. georgia - south e...
cheapstreetdustr
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,257
acworth / N. georgia - south e...
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does that track have a handi-cap section at the stripe!.. atlanta has a raised section /platform at the 1100 ft mark...for handi cap spectators. it gives them a great elevated view...fwiw.... i understand the family of the deceased..is from the nostalgia class..? Rip.. cheapst
365" Iron J heads,,3480lbs best 1.39 60ft on SS springs.10.54,124 mph ...6.67 1/8th et.average 60fts 1.46 w/ small cam &.063 no2 pill tagged & insured
[image][/image]
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: Rhinodart]
#619862
02/22/10 12:08 PM
02/22/10 12:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
I was there and saw it, it was just that, a freak accident. I also believe what happens in life is pre-ordained, so believe what you will it was just her time and not Antron's. I went by the pits and hour later and there was a guy being treated still for a knee injury but didn't hear about the woman until after I got home. A bad day at the track is still a much better day than normal! RIP lady...
if everthing in life is pre-ordained why do we need helmets and safety equipment? if it's your time to go it doesn't matter right?
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: Quicktree]
#619863
02/22/10 01:08 PM
02/22/10 01:08 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
BobR
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
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Quote:
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I was there and saw it, it was just that, a freak accident. I also believe what happens in life is pre-ordained, so believe what you will it was just her time and not Antron's. I went by the pits and hour later and there was a guy being treated still for a knee injury but didn't hear about the woman until after I got home. A bad day at the track is still a much better day than normal! RIP lady...
if everthing in life is pre-ordained why do we need helmets and safety equipment? if it's your time to go it doesn't matter right?
You jumped in before I could.
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: bwdst6]
#619870
02/22/10 03:17 PM
02/22/10 03:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,763
Walton's Mountain, Pa
Steve1118
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,763
Walton's Mountain, Pa
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Don't forget, Phoenix' Firebird Raceway is not on United States soil....it is part of an Indian Reservation. The Tribal police and Tribal authorities were there on the spot and pronounced her passed.
"Old age and treachery trumps youth and enthusiasm, every time!" East Central Director / Chrysler Power Magazine www.reasbeckracing.webs.com
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: bwdst6]
#619871
02/22/10 04:53 PM
02/22/10 04:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
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Everyone I've talked to on the scene knew the injured woman was dead, unfortunately. But to pronounce that at the scene would have meant a stoppage of the event, and an official police investigation on the grounds, so she had to be whisked away to be pronounced at the hospital and the show could go on. It's a sickening reality, but it's standard protocol for any large sporting or public event in this country.
Well, the only way she could have been pronounced dead at the scene is if there was an Doctor, Coroner or Undertaker there to do it! Those are the only professionals that can legally declare someone deceased!
well if they are not breathing and have no pulse what would you call it? doesn't take a doctor to figure that out. except for legal purposes.
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: Quicktree]
#619872
02/22/10 06:49 PM
02/22/10 06:49 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,095
Idaho
Runner
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,095
Idaho
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Quote:
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Everyone I've talked to on the scene knew the injured woman was dead, unfortunately. But to pronounce that at the scene would have meant a stoppage of the event, and an official police investigation on the grounds, so she had to be whisked away to be pronounced at the hospital and the show could go on. It's a sickening reality, but it's standard protocol for any large sporting or public event in this country.
Well, the only way she could have been pronounced dead at the scene is if there was an Doctor, Coroner or Undertaker there to do it! Those are the only professionals that can legally declare someone deceased!
well if they are not breathing and have no pulse what would you call it? doesn't take a doctor to figure that out. except for legal purposes.
glad your not a doctor, how many people on this planet are alive and well that at some point didnt have a pulse and were not breathing. i say give the person all the help and medical attension they need before throwing in the towel.
props to the prostock guys fgor standing up to nhra!!
my condolences for the family of the woman that died
i also think the wheel wasnt torqued down properly.
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: Runner]
#619873
02/22/10 06:58 PM
02/22/10 06:58 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,173
PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,173
PA.
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NHRA finally made it and has been mentioned on our local nightly news. As always it was bad news about someone dying while at a racing event. Gloom and doom does it every time.
1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: Moparnut426]
#619876
02/22/10 07:27 PM
02/22/10 07:27 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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Crazy day of racing @ firebird. Sad to hear about the death, thought and prayers to the family members. They do nee some tall fences though. I know its a pain to watch through a fance, but that beats debri hitting ya.
Kasey
how tall would you make the fence? that tire was 20' up in the air. as sad as it is being around racing is dangerous and not a lot you can do to prevent an accident like that.
It didnt get 20 ft up untill it got outside the guard rail, and gained momentum. The fence at 18FT might have helpped if it was 10ft on either side of the track.
Just a thought??
KAsey
Unless it was deflating thru an orifice, falling and/or flying in a vacum, it was NOT gaining momentum.
After pondering my above comment, let me clarify my main point, once the tire left the car, it would unlikely ever gain energy, it could store energy in compressing the inflated tire when it struck a solid object, but most of that would be released on the rebound, it might change direction, and it would change velocity as gravity effected it, but eventually thru friction, air drag, energy absorbed even by thought to be "solid" objects, it would eventually come to rest. However if the wheel was accelerated to very high speeds/rpms thru slippage with the track or the fact that tire was in the air before seperation, it could easily increase is ground speed after seperation as the rotational energy is converted to velocity as the loose tire gets traction, hence the appearance of gaining "momentum", which really is just a conversion of rotational inertia to ground speed. Which is also why so much harm can from a low speed wheel seperation.
Reducing chances of wheel seperation likely should be the focus of prevention IMO.
Last edited by jcc; 02/22/10 09:31 PM.
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: jcc]
#619877
02/22/10 07:50 PM
02/22/10 07:50 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 8,647
ELYRIA,OH
blownzoom440
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 8,647
ELYRIA,OH
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edited by me.
Last edited by METAL STORM; 02/25/10 04:52 PM.
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: cheapstreetdustr]
#619880
02/22/10 08:24 PM
02/22/10 08:24 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,489
St. Louis Mo.
10 o to go
"Happy Don"
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"Happy Don"
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,489
St. Louis Mo.
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Why would I if handicapped want to sit at 1100 feet where they are almost full speed and MPH .
In a wheel chair or some other disability .
I believe ORP has the same seating .
Years past they moved the score boards at the finish line 1320 ,to save some racers and the boards .Bet most haven't moved them to 1000 ft.
DR
2009 418" build dan smith built
new 9.96 131.82
6.23 108
1.30 60 foot
best to date 9/15/09
8in 727 430 dana 2860 lb 3040 lb w driver
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: ademon]
#619881
02/22/10 09:07 PM
02/22/10 09:07 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,608
fresno ca
mikeysmopars
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,608
fresno ca
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Saw a slick come off of Blane Johnson's rail at the Autolite Nationals in cailf, and flew about 200 feet into the air and ironically hit a sportsman's car. a 70 air grabber GTX right in the center of the hood and crushed it. Same year when Blane died at Indy. They should announce a HEADS UP When they launch the fuel cars!
Founder and CEO of the Central Valley Mopar Drag Pack
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: mikeysmopars]
#619882
02/22/10 09:22 PM
02/22/10 09:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,875
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,875
Weddington, N.C.
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They could easily design a wheel with larger studs and wider bolt spacings, or better yet (for example) a heavy gauge plate (like a stud girdle) held on with a seperate set of bolts to the wheel that goes over the studs to prevent the nut from backing all the way off. There's no reason what happened yesterday couldn't happen again next sunday....or for that matter DIDN'T HAPPEN LAST SUNDAY does anyone know why Pro stock was postponed to be run Saturday at the Gatornats? If they said why they ran Fuel cars but no P/S I must have missed it
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: Streetwize]
#619883
02/22/10 09:29 PM
02/22/10 09:29 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 8,647
ELYRIA,OH
blownzoom440
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 8,647
ELYRIA,OH
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Quote:
does anyone know why Pro stock was postponed to be run Saturday at the Gatornats?
If they said why they ran Fuel cars but no P/S I must have missed it
i think he said it was a mutual agreement by the racers,track.
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: blownzoom440]
#619884
02/22/10 10:00 PM
02/22/10 10:00 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: Streetwize]
#619885
02/22/10 10:01 PM
02/22/10 10:01 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 329
tx
craigsmytcudas
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 329
tx
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Quote:
They could easily design a wheel with larger studs and wider bolt spacings, or better yet (for example) a heavy gauge plate (like a stud girdle) held on with a seperate set of bolts to the wheel that goes over the studs to prevent the nut from backing all the way off. There's no reason what happened yesterday couldn't happen again next sunday....or for that matter DIDN'T HAPPEN LAST SUNDAY
does anyone know why Pro stock was postponed to be run Saturday at the Gatornats?
If they said why they ran Fuel cars but no P/S I must have missed it
Why not just tighten the wheels correctly, then they wouldnt sheer or pull the studs . 
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: mopacltd]
#619887
02/22/10 10:49 PM
02/22/10 10:49 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 329
tx
craigsmytcudas
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 329
tx
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Quote:
And you slept at a Holiday Inn last night. Right? You need to be there and know first hand before making such an assumption. Please.
I think you should reread the post i was responding to .My point is that a redesign is a bit premature . But since your going there I do belive that nearly all failures in racing is human error . By the way If you need to know I sleep in the front living qtrs of my race trailer when on the road .
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: BobR]
#619889
02/23/10 02:55 AM
02/23/10 02:55 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,274
s.w.fl
bonefish
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,274
s.w.fl
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Quote:
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I was there and saw it, it was just that, a freak accident. I also believe what happens in life is pre-ordained, so believe what you will it was just her time and not Antron's. I went by the pits and hour later and there was a guy being treated still for a knee injury but didn't hear about the woman until after I got home. A bad day at the track is still a much better day than normal! RIP lady...
if everthing in life is pre-ordained why do we need helmets and safety equipment? if it's your time to go it doesn't matter right?
You jumped in before I could.
yeh,and what if your in a big jet liner at 30,000 ft and its the guy next to ya,s time to go,splain me that one.
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: bonefish]
#619890
02/23/10 09:42 AM
02/23/10 09:42 AM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 13,189
aZLiViN
J_BODY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 13,189
aZLiViN
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I was there and saw it, it was just that, a freak accident. I also believe what happens in life is pre-ordained, so believe what you will it was just her time and not Antron's. I went by the pits and hour later and there was a guy being treated still for a knee injury but didn't hear about the woman until after I got home. A bad day at the track is still a much better day than normal! RIP lady...
if everthing in life is pre-ordained why do we need helmets and safety equipment? if it's your time to go it doesn't matter right?
You jumped in before I could.
yeh,and what if your in a big jet liner at 30,000 ft and its the guy next to ya,s time to go,splain me that one.
...maybe it was YOUR time not his. Or perhaps you just become collateral damage in the scheme of things.
That vid of the tire bouncing along is incredible. Talk about energy.
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: craigsmytcudas]
#619891
02/23/10 09:47 AM
02/23/10 09:47 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
BobR
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
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Quote:
Quote:
And you slept at a Holiday Inn last night. Right? You need to be there and know first hand before making such an assumption. Please.
I think you should reread the post i was responding to .My point is that a redesign is a bit premature . But since your going there I do belive that nearly all failures in racing is human error . By the way If you need to know I sleep in the front living qtrs of my race trailer when on the road .
Are you kidding? You are assigning definite blame to human error as the cause of this accident without knowing ANY of the details? These are professionals. They have a routine for lug nut tightening and I can assure you that the severe tire shake Antron was driving through had everything to do with the stud failure.
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: craigsmytcudas]
#619892
02/23/10 10:11 AM
02/23/10 10:11 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:
Quote:
They could easily design a wheel with larger studs and wider bolt spacings, or better yet (for example) a heavy gauge plate (like a stud girdle) held on with a seperate set of bolts to the wheel that goes over the studs to prevent the nut from backing all the way off. There's no reason what happened yesterday couldn't happen again next sunday....or for that matter DIDN'T HAPPEN LAST SUNDAY
does anyone know why Pro stock was postponed to be run Saturday at the Gatornats?
If they said why they ran Fuel cars but no P/S I must have missed it
Why not just tighten the wheels correctly, then they wouldnt sheer or pull the studs .
Some of you don't have clue...
I wrecked at the finish line at 240 MPH at the NHRA nats at Col oH in 2003. tHE REAr tire bounced into the air several hundred feet and landed on a NHRA truck, destroyed the hood. Luckly it didn't hit anyone. How can you keep it from coming off? It tore 3 wheels off of my car, I was clocked at 225MPH going thru the traps backward after hitting the wall first. The lug nuts weren't loose!! Part of the wheel stayed bolted to the car.
The NHRA closed the track early that year, Same lane, same day Jason Line crashed Gregs pro stock car and 3 other sportsman cars in the same left lane.
Accidents happen at car races, it sucks. If it bothers you don't go.
RIP to the person killed.
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: torredcuda]
#619895
02/23/10 10:37 AM
02/23/10 10:37 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,448
Phoenix, AZ
MoparBilly
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,448
Phoenix, AZ
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Cut and Pasted from the NHRA Pacific Division website. If they stick with this plan, no way they finish the divisional on time! Extended forcast is for showers on Saturday. I'll bet right now that the 1 time run at friday, and MAYBE 1 on Saturday are all the divisional competitors get.
Final eliminations for all NHRA Sportsman competitors in the NHRA Arizona Nationals will be completed this Friday in conjunction with the Division 7 Lucas Oil Drag Racing Series event scheduled at Firebird International Raceway Feb. 26-28.
Competitors in the six classes being contested for the Arizona Nationals will get one time trial beginning at 8 a.m. and go straight into eliminations from there. The run Friday will count for qualifying toward the Lucas Oil Drag Racing Series event and all cars entered into the Lucas Oil Drag Racing Series event will be eligible to make the run Friday morning. All competitors in all classes for the Lucas Oil Drag Racing Series will only have one run allotted on Friday.
Stock and Super Stock eliminations for the Arizona Nationals will be random-paired for the first round and laddered second round based on furthest under the index runs during first-round eliminations. Competitors in Top Dragster and Super Street had already been paired and will remain with those pairing as eliminations are already underway. Super Gas had already completed first round and laddered second-round pairings will be retained for the completion.
In addition to the six classes being contested for Arizona Nationals eliminations, Top Alcohol Dragster, Top Alcohol Funny Car, Comp, Top Sportsman, and Sportsman Motorcycle competitors will have a single qualifying session on Friday. All 11 classes will receive two qualifying sessions on Saturday and Lucas Oil Drag Racing Series eliminations will be run in their entirety on Sunday.
Torredcuda,
Those kinds of capital improvements will bankrupt more than a few tracks. Do a search on Memphis...
"Livin' in a powder keg and givin' off sparks"
4 Street cars, 5 Race engines
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: Challenger 1]
#619896
02/23/10 10:38 AM
02/23/10 10:38 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,875
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,875
Weddington, N.C.
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Well with full respect....being in industrial engineering for 30 years and being flown 1/2 around the world to seek my opinions for FMEA (Failure Modes and Effect analysis) studies I think I have at least a "clue"...any safety system designed by man gets improved upon and upgraded as soon as something that was "NOT supposed to Happen" happens, Darrel Russell is a very good example of something that everyone knew could happen (a tire breaking apart and tail-whipping) but was not addressed until a low probability occurence quite tragicly took his life. Fatalities happen in racing and in industry, it all comes down to "acceptable risk" and hoping the safety measures enacted are adequate to mitigate that risk.....upgrading those measures are often expensive (except DR's accident seems not so expensive and in a tragic irony now almost seems "common sense"....quite unfortunately from time to time the bar must be raised and there are always those who resist because of the expense of the redesign. I'm sure may of you may be familiar that in Industry we use many "torque to yield" break -away bolts and nuts that are essentially double nuts where torque is applied to the top nut and it shears off leaving only the properly torqued bottom nut in place. That's only mentioned as an example of how often engineering must take the human error factor out of the equation but even that is only as good as its certification method. There is no question in my mind that a wheel/wheel securing system could be designed with adequate strength for TF and F/C that would keep the wheel secure to a axle hub....it may not keep the tire on the wheel or (for that matter) the axle itself in the frame (another matter for discussion) but it could certainly keep the wheel on the axle. 
Last edited by Streetwize; 02/23/10 10:43 AM.
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: Streetwize]
#619897
02/23/10 10:42 AM
02/23/10 10:42 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:
Well with full respect....being in industrial engineering for 30 years and being flown 1/2 around the world to seek my opinions for FMEA (Failure Modes and Effect analysis) studies I think I have at least a "clue"...any safety system designed by man gets improved upon and upgraded as soon as something that was "NOT supposed to Happen" happens, Darrel Russell is a very good example of something that everyone knew could happen (a tire breaking apart and tail-whipping) but was not addressed until a low probability occurence quite tragicly took his life.
Fatalities happen in racing and in industry, it all comes down to "acceptable risk" and hoping the safety measures enacted are adequate to mitigate that risk.....upgrading those measures are often expensive (except DR's accident seems not so expensive and in a tragic irony now almost seems "common sense"....quite unfortunately from time to time the bar must be raised and there are always those who resist because of the expense of the redesign.
I'm sure may of you may be familiar that in Industry we use many "torque to yield" break -away bolts and nuts that are essentially double nuts where torque is applied to the top nut and it shears off leaving only the properly torqued bottom nut in place. That's only mentioned as an example of how often engineering must take the human error factor out of the equation but even that is only as good as its certification method.
There is no question in my mind that a wheel/wheel securing system could be designed with adequate strength for TF and F/C that would keep the wheel secure to a axle hub....it may not keep the tire on the wheel (another matter fro discussion) but it could certainly keep the wheel on the axle.
I'll bet you Antron's wheel looks just like mine did. The inner wheel stayed bolted to the car and the outer separating. I guess they have to make the wheels heavier?
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: Streetwize]
#619898
02/23/10 10:53 AM
02/23/10 10:53 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,840
The Swamp
Sixpak
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,840
The Swamp
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Quote:
Well with full respect....being in industrial engineering for 30 years and being flown 1/2 around the world to seek my opinions for FMEA (Failure Modes and Effect analysis) studies I think I have at least a "clue"...any safety system designed by man gets improved upon and upgraded as soon as something that was "NOT supposed to Happen" happens, Darrel Russell is a very good example of something that everyone knew could happen (a tire breaking apart and tail-whipping) but was not addressed until a low probability occurence quite tragicly took his life.
Fatalities happen in racing and in industry, it all comes down to "acceptable risk" and hoping the safety measures enacted are adequate to mitigate that risk.....upgrading those measures are often expensive (except DR's accident seems not so expensive and in a tragic irony now almost seems "common sense"....quite unfortunately from time to time the bar must be raised and there are always those who resist because of the expense of the redesign.
:
Sadly, this is a factor in a LOT of industry today and yesterday. Look at Ford's decision not to spend $50 per car on a redesign of the Pinto gas tank...the airlines have an expression for this, not trying to be glib, but they call it 'tombstone technology'.....
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: torredcuda]
#619900
02/23/10 11:55 AM
02/23/10 11:55 AM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 85
Arizona
Jeffaary
member
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member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 85
Arizona
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Quote:
Wheel tethers,fences-Nascar has 3500# cars hit the fence and bounce off.
NASCAR & Indy cars have also had their tires bounce OVER those catch fences and kill spectators. Catch fences are not a 100% solution. Did you see the footage of this crash? The tire was pretty low at first, just barely clearing the chest-high concrete wall. Then it hits something, either the unfortunate lady or the yellow truck, and at that point it starts bouncing sky-high. A wheel/tire that heavy and with that much inertia/momentum/energy is tough to contain. I'd rather focus my efforts on not letting the tire break away in the first place.
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: jcc]
#619903
02/23/10 01:04 PM
02/23/10 01:04 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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Maybe this pic makes more sense
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: Jeffaary]
#619904
02/23/10 01:08 PM
02/23/10 01:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,030
NH
torredcuda
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,030
NH
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Quote:
Quote:
Wheel tethers,fences-Nascar has 3500# cars hit the fence and bounce off.
NASCAR & Indy cars have also had their tires bounce OVER those catch fences and kill spectators. Catch fences are not a 100% solution. Did you see the footage of this crash? The tire was pretty low at first, just barely clearing the chest-high concrete wall. Then it hits something, either the unfortunate lady or the yellow truck, and at that point it starts bouncing sky-high. A wheel/tire that heavy and with that much inertia/momentum/energy is tough to contain. I'd rather focus my efforts on not letting the tire break away in the first place.
There are no 100% solutions as yes,accidents will always happen but I think a lot more can be done to improve safety.Look at all Nascar has done in recent years-safer barriers,complete new car,better seats,hans device etc.
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: torredcuda]
#619905
02/23/10 02:44 PM
02/23/10 02:44 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
BobR
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
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Quote:
Quote:
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Wheel tethers,fences-Nascar has 3500# cars hit the fence and bounce off.
NASCAR & Indy cars have also had their tires bounce OVER those catch fences and kill spectators. Catch fences are not a 100% solution. Did you see the footage of this crash? The tire was pretty low at first, just barely clearing the chest-high concrete wall. Then it hits something, either the unfortunate lady or the yellow truck, and at that point it starts bouncing sky-high. A wheel/tire that heavy and with that much inertia/momentum/energy is tough to contain. I'd rather focus my efforts on not letting the tire break away in the first place.
There are no 100% solutions as yes,accidents will always happen but I think a lot more can be done to improve safety.Look at all Nascar has done in recent years-safer barriers,complete new car,better seats,hans device etc.
As far as the nitro cars go these rockets are breaching sanity and that's their primary draw. You start taming them then their popularity will dwindle. That said, there is no reason why a better/stronger wheel/hub assembly cannot be devised.
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: maximum entropy]
#619910
02/23/10 05:59 PM
02/23/10 05:59 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
BobR
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
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Quote:
Quote:
I don`t mean to sound dumb but whats a wheel tether? I`ve never seen/heard of it.
f1 uses 'em. in the event of wheel/ suspension failure the wheel (usually) stays with the car.
Don't know how that would have made any difference in this situation. The F1 tethers are attached to the suspension assembly and not the wheel.
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: BobR]
#619911
02/23/10 06:09 PM
02/23/10 06:09 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,080
organ
maximum entropy
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,080
organ
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really, i'm amazed this doesn't happen almost every time they rattle the tires. the slomo video is painful to watch, literally shaking the car (and driver) to pieces.
for what is the good life if not doing things thoughtfully?
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: maximum entropy]
#619912
02/23/10 06:12 PM
02/23/10 06:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
really, i'm amazed this doesn't happen almost every time they rattle the tires. the slomo video is painful to watch, literally shaking the car (and driver) to pieces.
thats when you should lift and try it again, which is what he did and what probably caused the problem
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: jcc]
#619916
02/23/10 07:35 PM
02/23/10 07:35 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:
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really, i'm amazed this doesn't happen almost every time they rattle the tires. the slomo video is painful to watch, literally shaking the car (and driver) to pieces.
I asked this question a couple of years back and got no response, then if "tire shake" is the main culprit, what causes it, what would prevent it, and it is a recent problem ( don't remember it in the 60's??)? Myabe we can't see the forest from the trees.
Tire shake...one of the hardest things to tune around with a car with big power. There's many different reasons it happens, but it's always from the car not getting up on the tire at the right time.
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: jcc]
#619917
02/23/10 07:53 PM
02/23/10 07:53 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,168
Wichita Kansas
B Dartman
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,168
Wichita Kansas
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Quote:
Unless it was deflating thru an orifice, falling and/or flying in a vacum, it was NOT gaining momentum.
After pondering my above comment, let me clarify my main point, once the tire left the car, it would unlikely ever gain energy, it could store energy in compressing the inflated tire when it struck a solid object, but most of that would be released on the rebound, it might change direction, and it would change velocity as gravity effected it, but eventually thru friction, air drag, energy absorbed even by thought to be "solid" objects, it would eventually come to rest. However if the wheel was accelerated to very high speeds/rpms thru slippage with the track or the fact that tire was in the air before seperation, it could easily increase is ground speed after seperation as the rotational energy is converted to velocity as the loose tire gets traction, hence the appearance of gaining "momentum", which really is just a conversion of rotational inertia to ground speed. Which is also why so much harm can from a low speed wheel seperation.
Reducing chances of wheel seperation likely should be the focus of prevention IMO.
To carry these thoughts even further, what we may be seeing as well is the effects of gyroscopic precession. It appears in the video the wheel was spinning at a significant speed well past separation from the axle hub. I've seen aircraft gyro's literally tear themselves from their mounts in an event called gimbal lock. This can be a very violent event and some of the tires reactions to each hit (bounce) may have induced a more violent reaction/response by the tire (especially when you see it bouncing around the trucks). This may be what we are seeing vs. it appearing to gain velocity.
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: Locomotion]
#619919
02/23/10 08:33 PM
02/23/10 08:33 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:
I know that there is a slow motion video somewhere that shows what a T/F dragster or funny car tire looks like when they launch. One of tire shake would be better and would help get a better perspective. It is surprising that more stuff doesn't break.
Stuff breaks on the car you never hear about as a spectator. When tire shake ocurs there always something broke on the car. That's why we don't paint our chassis because I weld on it almost every week from tire shake. I have had some big time bruises on my legs from tire shake, big time.
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: torredcuda]
#619920
02/23/10 09:04 PM
02/23/10 09:04 PM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 85
Arizona
Jeffaary
member
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member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 85
Arizona
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Quote:
Look at all Nascar has done in recent years-safer barriers,complete new car,better seats,hans device etc.
All for the driver, not the track workers or spectators.....
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: BobR]
#619921
02/23/10 09:14 PM
02/23/10 09:14 PM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 85
Arizona
Jeffaary
member
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member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 85
Arizona
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Quote:
As far as the nitro cars go these rockets are breaching sanity and that's their primary draw. You start taming them then their popularity will dwindle.
I'm not sure I agree with that. Of the three top classes in NHRA, I think pro-stock is the most fun to watch BY FAR. Almost every run has both drivers make a clean, competitive pass. In TFD and funny car, very few runs have both drivers make a clean pass. Almost every nitro run has at least one driver, if not both, smoke the tires/get out of the groove/blow supercharger/etc.... If they would slow the nitro classes down the racing would be more competitive, it would cost less, there would be less breakage, there would be more teams, someone not named Schumacher or Force might win a title, and getting back to the original topic - less chance of racers/fans/track workers getting killed.
I love top fuel and funny cars, but I'd love them just as much if they ran in the fives or sixes.
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: Jeffaary]
#619922
02/23/10 09:49 PM
02/23/10 09:49 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
BobR
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
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Quote:
Quote:
As far as the nitro cars go these rockets are breaching sanity and that's their primary draw. You start taming them then their popularity will dwindle.
I'm not sure I agree with that. Of the three top classes in NHRA, I think pro-stock is the most fun to watch BY FAR. Almost every run has both drivers make a clean, competitive pass. In TFD and funny car, very few runs have both drivers make a clean pass. Almost every nitro run has at least one driver, if not both, smoke the tires/get out of the groove/blow supercharger/etc.... If they would slow the nitro classes down the racing would be more competitive, it would cost less, there would be less breakage, there would be more teams, someone not named Schumacher or Force might win a title, and getting back to the original topic - less chance of racers/fans/track workers getting killed.
I love top fuel and funny cars, but I'd love them just as much if they ran in the fives or sixes.
You, Jeff, are the exception. Go to a national event and watch what happens after the fuelers are done running.
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: BobR]
#619923
02/23/10 09:58 PM
02/23/10 09:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,763
Walton's Mountain, Pa
Steve1118
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,763
Walton's Mountain, Pa
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"As far as the nitro cars go these rockets are breaching sanity and that's their primary draw. You start taming them then their popularity will dwindle."
I can't see it. Most folks who watch them like the smoke, the flames, the ground pounding. Back in the day, the fields with five second passes and 270 mph speed offered the same thrill, and, at least as good if not better, show. And, there were more of them. Slow them all down, and no one would notice the difference. You'll still have the same sensory experiences, and even more cars.
"Old age and treachery trumps youth and enthusiasm, every time!" East Central Director / Chrysler Power Magazine www.reasbeckracing.webs.com
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: BobR]
#619924
02/23/10 10:12 PM
02/23/10 10:12 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
camastomcat
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
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You, Jeff, are the exception. Go to a national event and watch what happens after the fuelers are done running.
That's just a perception on your part. They wouldn't be in the sixes, but perhaps in the low 5's and high 4's. We would be back to 1/4 mile racing for everyone, and you would see more people that would and could come out to race because they could afford it again. And if that's not enough, racers wouldn't need multi-million sponsorships and would be more likely to do what the prostock racers did last weekend, tell NHRA to f off! I hate to say it, but we need a throttle stop on the sport these days IMO. Just like they stopped racing the rocket cars,blown fuel altereds, and front engine fuel cars in the 70's. And before you say they still do race those classes, they have restrictions on them. It's supposed to be fun for all and on the edge, not over the edge.
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: camastomcat]
#619925
02/23/10 10:28 PM
02/23/10 10:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,176
Park Forest, IL
slantzilla
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,176
Park Forest, IL
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Quote:
You, Jeff, are the exception. Go to a national event and watch what happens after the fuelers are done running.
That's just a perception on your part. They wouldn't be in the sixes, but perhaps in the low 5's and high 4's. We would be back to 1/4 mile racing for everyone, and you would see more people that would and could come out to race because they could afford it again. And if that's not enough, racers wouldn't need multi-million sponsorships and would be more likely to do what the prostock racers did last weekend, tell NHRA to f off! I hate to say it, but we need a throttle stop on the sport these days IMO. Just like they stopped racing the rocket cars,blown fuel altereds, and front engine fuel cars in the 70's. And before you say they still do race those classes, they have restrictions on them. It's supposed to be fun for all and on the edge, not over the edge.
One of the main reasons they need the big dollar sponsorships is travel expenses and upkeep for going to 23 national events if they race the full circuit. In the old days teams used to match race to make money and go to the 4 (maybe) national events a year. Now, running the circuit is a full time job and then some. No time for match racing anymore. The old days are long gone. Slowing the cars down will never bring them back.
And BobR is correct. There is only one reason that P/S and PS/B run BEFORE the fuel cars. The stands would be empty if they didn't. Every class from P/S on down is merely space filler between rounds of fuel.
"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: 67Satty]
#619928
02/23/10 11:50 PM
02/23/10 11:50 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,095
Idaho
Runner
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,095
Idaho
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Quote:
Putting any kind of restriction on them takes away the whole point of Top Fuelers. They are meant to be unlimited and to go as quick/fast as possible. You may as well just have them do exhibition burnouts and/or runs and just forget about the competition aspect of it if you restrict them.
there are already piles of restictions on them. they are far from unlimited.
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: BobR]
#619929
02/23/10 11:53 PM
02/23/10 11:53 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 329
tx
craigsmytcudas
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 329
tx
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Quote:
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And you slept at a Holiday Inn last night. Right? You need to be there and know first hand before making such an assumption. Please.
I think you should reread the post i was responding to .My point is that a redesign is a bit premature . But since your going there I do belive that nearly all failures in racing is human error . By the way If you need to know I sleep in the front living qtrs of my race trailer when on the road .
Are you kidding? You are assigning definite blame to human error as the cause of this accident without knowing ANY of the details? These are professionals. They have a routine for lug nut tightening and I can assure you that the severe tire shake Antron was driving through had everything to do with the stud failure.
Bob with all due respect you made a human error ,you over looked the word nearly .I didn't assume anything, but human failure still stands formost as the place to look first .regards
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: Runner]
#619930
02/24/10 01:07 AM
02/24/10 01:07 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,271
Vista, California
67Satty
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,271
Vista, California
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Quote:
Quote:
Putting any kind of restriction on them takes away the whole point of Top Fuelers. They are meant to be unlimited and to go as quick/fast as possible. You may as well just have them do exhibition burnouts and/or runs and just forget about the competition aspect of it if you restrict them.
there are already piles of restictions on them. they are far from unlimited.
Good point. I guess I should have said putting any further restrictions on them will make them slanted even further to the exhibition side.
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: slantzilla]
#619931
02/24/10 05:01 AM
02/24/10 05:01 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,840
The Swamp
Sixpak
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,840
The Swamp
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Quote:
One of the main reasons they need the big dollar sponsorships is travel expenses and upkeep for going to 23 national events if they race the full circuit. In the old days teams used to match race to make money and go to the 4 (maybe) national events a year. Now, running the circuit is a full time job and then some. No time for match racing anymore. The old days are long gone. Slowing the cars down will never bring them back.
And BobR is correct. There is only one reason that P/S and PS/B run BEFORE the fuel cars. The stands would be empty if they didn't. Every class from P/S on down is merely space filler between rounds of fuel.
NHRA is partly complicit here in doing away with match racing - seeing as to how fuel teams are now limited as to the number of 'test' runs they can make after the start of the year. That was billed as a way to cut costs but it sure put the knife in the match racing circuit.
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: camastomcat]
#619932
02/24/10 05:13 AM
02/24/10 05:13 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,840
The Swamp
Sixpak
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,840
The Swamp
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Quote:
I'm sorry, but I have to respectfully disagree. The reason the stands empty after the fuel car run is because S/C, S/G and S/street comes out. And just because they limit blower speed, mags, fuel pumps, doesn't mean that people won't watch and pay to see the show. They still watch Nascar don't they? And they went restrictor plates years ago. And they still watch the Alcohol classes don't they? How about Pro Mod? Think about it, people will watch the show that is offered if it's loud, pounds the ground and smells of nitro. That's the draw.
And a BIG reason the stands empty for the Super classes is because of the throttle stops and timers - no one, even educated spectators, wants to go from seeing flat out runs in the pro categories to cars falling on their face right out of the hole.
And please, save your whining, t-stop racers, I've heard it all before - those cars STILL SUCK to watch from the stands, no matter how much you sugarcoat how it 'makes the racing closer at the finish line.' The paying customer isn't watching you at the finish line if you've already turned their interest off at the starting line. Stock and Super Stock still can attract some fans at a National event, because they haven't lost their visual appeal at the stating line, unlike the Super categories.
Here's another area where less could be more - slow the fuelers down by taking fuel, blower and magneto away, bring the costs down - the sound and fury will STILL be there.
Same thing in the Super categories - get rid of all the doodads and junk, down track timers, t-stops, etc. Less expense, and make the driver actually DRIVE the car or slow the car down via mechanical t-stops not controlled by a damn computer or electronic timer.
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: Jeffaary]
#619934
02/24/10 10:20 AM
02/24/10 10:20 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,030
NH
torredcuda
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,030
NH
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Quote:
Quote:
Look at all Nascar has done in recent years-safer barriers,complete new car,better seats,hans device etc.
All for the driver, not the track workers or spectators.....
Not true,they did install tethers on the hoods and trunk lids but ya,they could more.That truck at Daytona a couple years ago did some pretty good damage to the fence and a couple spectators did get injured
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: B Dartman]
#619935
02/24/10 10:44 AM
02/24/10 10:44 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
BobR
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
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Quote:
Years ago was at Texas Motorplex and opted to sit in the brand new finish line seats. Cory Mac had a blower come apart at about 1300 ft. As he hit the chutes, one of the rotors managed to free itself from the case and come flying across the track at a good 300+ mph, whizzed past the bleachers and bounced off the ground creating a huge dirt plume. There was two girls walking up the return road and the rotor continues after the bounce to whiz right over their heads missing them by a foot or two. The rotor then bounced in the dirt again and cartwheeled over a row of park cars and disappeared into a corn field. When the rotor bounced over the girls on the return road we were all in the finish line stands screaming for them to "WATCH OUT!". They never saw it go whizzing by. I opted out of the stands for the remainder of the day and hit the fence line near the starting line where in my opinion the probability of getting hit with debris is reduced. I'd say most are not cognizant of the possibility of getting hit until you see something like what just happened at Phoenix...
The 1978 US Nationals a blower came off of a car and hit a photographer in the back of the head(killed him immediately) as he panned the camera around following the car. That led to some serious blower strap/restraint implementations. Some time before that Clayton Harris, in one of his "New Dimension" dragsters, had a clutch come apart at the starting line and that killed a fan in the bleachers adjacent to it. I believe that was in Martin Mi.
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: Sixpak]
#619936
02/24/10 11:04 AM
02/24/10 11:04 AM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,110
toledo, ohio
plasticfantastic
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,110
toledo, ohio
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Quote:
And a BIG reason the stands empty for the Super classes is because of the throttle stops and timers - no one, even educated spectators, wants to go from seeing flat out runs in the pro categories to cars falling on their face right out of the hole.
speak for yourself, because right here is someone that enjoys Super class racing, and its not the sugar coated finish line excuses that you said. I also know many others that enjoy watching it.
I enjoy it because of the engineering side of it, what they are doing to make the car do what its doing.
Life would be great at the drag races if it was all 1/4 mile and all flat out first to the finish line, you people dont like bracket racing, but sit in the stands and watch super stock and stock racing all day long.
Now I'm not bashing SS, ot STK, but trying to make a point that there is enough room for all types of classes, and to say no one, not even educated people like to watch... well get off your soap box and speak for yourself.
DO AWAY WITH THIS AND THAT, MAKE IT SO AND SO... well how about you just stick with the classes you like and leave the other ones to the people that race those, and enjoy them... chances are even if they made the super classes how you wanted, you'd still be sitting in the stands complaining that nobody wants to watch index racing, its a retarded form of bracket racing...
the stands are empty after top fuel runs probably because people are going to get thier autographs, on the tshirts they buy, on the little cars they carry around, want thier picture taken to post on moparts that LOOK I KNOW ROY JOHNSON, or watch them tear the cars down, they want to be on the rope line when ESPN comes with the camera, They want to be standing there when the Kalitta camp burps the throttle on thier warm ups... give me a break its not becuase a certain class is in the lanes, its because a majority of people that go to national events go to see the stuff they see on TV, and when the TV stuff is in the pits, thats where the crowds go.
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: slantzilla]
#619937
02/24/10 11:58 AM
02/24/10 11:58 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
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Quote:
Quote:
You, Jeff, are the exception. Go to a national event and watch what happens after the fuelers are done running.
That's just a perception on your part. They wouldn't be in the sixes, but perhaps in the low 5's and high 4's. We would be back to 1/4 mile racing for everyone, and you would see more people that would and could come out to race because they could afford it again. And if that's not enough, racers wouldn't need multi-million sponsorships and would be more likely to do what the prostock racers did last weekend, tell NHRA to f off! I hate to say it, but we need a throttle stop on the sport these days IMO. Just like they stopped racing the rocket cars,blown fuel altereds, and front engine fuel cars in the 70's. And before you say they still do race those classes, they have restrictions on them. It's supposed to be fun for all and on the edge, not over the edge.
One of the main reasons they need the big dollar sponsorships is travel expenses and upkeep for going to 23 national events if they race the full circuit. In the old days teams used to match race to make money and go to the 4 (maybe) national events a year. Now, running the circuit is a full time job and then some. No time for match racing anymore. The old days are long gone. Slowing the cars down will never bring them back.
And BobR is correct. There is only one reason that P/S and PS/B run BEFORE the fuel cars. The stands would be empty if they didn't. Every class from P/S on down is merely space filler between rounds of fuel.
The main reason the stands are empty is the $$$$$$$$$$. If NHRA is to survive in the future, that will have to change. Compitition does not have to be a multi million dollar indeavor. Most racing venues are family affairs ( watching and participating ), and the average family, in todays environment, can't afford it. Change will come! Trust me, I'm a mechanic!
Fastest 300
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: Challenger 1]
#619939
02/24/10 01:07 PM
02/24/10 01:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,668
Mi,U.S.A.
mike s
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,668
Mi,U.S.A.
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I do not think anyone wants to see a fuel car of any kind that can barely outrun a Pro-Mod.I would prefer the cars ran a 1/4 mile also.If the track can not handle the cars safely (pro stocks etc incl) don't run them there.Tragically these types of freak accidents do happen.One lost life is too many.They will come up with a tether deal to prevent this from happening again.Where are the safer barriers to absorb some of the energy of a crash.All I have seen is cars careening off of concrete.All sanctioning bodies need to step up too.Remember overall the cars are much much safer than in the old days.
I was at Indy in 79 when the photographer was killed and the Top Fuel bike rider was also killed.There were also 2 or 3 fatal heart attacks and several nasty Top Fuel crashes with injuries.With heavy hearts we learn from these tragic events and carry on.
Leave the gun.......take the Cannoli's....Mike
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: plasticfantastic]
#619943
02/24/10 04:34 PM
02/24/10 04:34 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,840
The Swamp
Sixpak
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,840
The Swamp
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Quote:
speak for yourself, because right here is someone that enjoys Super class racing, and its not the sugar coated finish line excuses that you said. I also know many others that enjoy watching it.
I enjoy it because of the engineering side of it, what they are doing to make the car do what its doing.
That's the problem - I DID like watching the Super class cars, in the early days when cars left the line at full throttle and stayed there most of the way, but all that "engineering" you speak of that's so interesting one day is going to be the death of them at the national event level.
Drag racings' most unique feature is a full acceleration start. Anything less SUCKS - period. Your throttle stop and timer ruin it for the majority of spectators - THE PAYING CUSTOMERS. Forget about not needing fans at some Bracket Bash - we're talking about National events. NHRA seems to keep thinking of more new forms and classes to squeeze into the show - well, guess what, an event is only so many hours and so many days long. Now, if you were Compton or some other NHRA business man, and had to trim something from the program for some new class, which classes would YOU trim? That's right, the ones where the fans leave the stands. They've already done it to some of Stock, S/S and Super Street, where else can they trim? And I can bet that there will STILL be more people interested in 8 second wheel standing SS/AH and 9 second stockers than the Super Class cars at a National event - hell, even the nitro teams watch the SS Hemi Shootout.
Yup, Super Class racing of today - real interesting.. ..Look how clever this guy was to string together all these timers and electro-pneumatic devices just so he could....Hurry up, wait....then hurry up again, then wait some more at the top end.... endlessly thrilling, if you're engrossed in the engineering it takes to do that, but like having root canal to everyone else.
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: Sixpak]
#619946
02/24/10 06:31 PM
02/24/10 06:31 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 9,366
Lehigh Acres, Florida
rickstershemi
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 9,366
Lehigh Acres, Florida
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Quote:
Quote:
speak for yourself, because right here is someone that enjoys Super class racing, and its not the sugar coated finish line excuses that you said. I also know many others that enjoy watching it.
I enjoy it because of the engineering side of it, what they are doing to make the car do what its doing.
That's the problem - I DID like watching the Super class cars, in the early days when cars left the line at full throttle and stayed there most of the way, but all that "engineering" you speak of that's so interesting one day is going to be the death of them at the national event level.
Drag racings' most unique feature is a full acceleration start. Anything less SUCKS - period. Your throttle stop and timer ruin it for the majority of spectators - THE PAYING CUSTOMERS. Forget about not needing fans at some Bracket Bash - we're talking about National events. NHRA seems to keep thinking of more new forms and classes to squeeze into the show - well, guess what, an event is only so many hours and so many days long. Now, if you were Compton or some other NHRA business man, and had to trim something from the program for some new class, which classes would YOU trim? That's right, the ones where the fans leave the stands. They've already done it to some of Stock, S/S and Super Street, where else can they trim? And I can bet that there will STILL be more people interested in 8 second wheel standing SS/AH and 9 second stockers than the Super Class cars at a National event - hell, even the nitro teams watch the SS Hemi Shootout.
Yup, Super Class racing of today - real interesting....Look how clever this guy was to string together all these timers and electro-pneumatic devices just so he could....Hurry up, wait....then hurry up again, then wait some more at the top end.... endlessly thrilling, if you're engrossed in the engineering it takes to do that, but like having root canal to everyone else.
What you fail to realize is NHRA doesn't want and has never intended on keeping spectators butts planted in their seats ... NHRA wants as many spectators spending as much time as possible touring the midway spending their money on food and souvenirs....period 
Also you need to realize that many a PRO Class Drivers have ran many many laps in the Super Classes
There was a 180 combined car count at Gainesville last weekend in S/G & S/C.....they ain't going anywhere anytime soon
Rickster
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: Sixpak]
#619947
02/24/10 09:09 PM
02/24/10 09:09 PM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,110
toledo, ohio
plasticfantastic
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,110
toledo, ohio
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Quote:
Quote:
speak for yourself, because right here is someone that enjoys Super class racing, and its not the sugar coated finish line excuses that you said. I also know many others that enjoy watching it.
I enjoy it because of the engineering side of it, what they are doing to make the car do what its doing.
That's the problem - I DID like watching the Super class cars, in the early days when cars left the line at full throttle and stayed there most of the way, but all that "engineering" you speak of that's so interesting one day is going to be the death of them at the national event level.
Drag racings' most unique feature is a full acceleration start. Anything less SUCKS - period. Your throttle stop and timer ruin it for the majority of spectators - THE PAYING CUSTOMERS. Forget about not needing fans at some Bracket Bash - we're talking about National events. NHRA seems to keep thinking of more new forms and classes to squeeze into the show - well, guess what, an event is only so many hours and so many days long. Now, if you were Compton or some other NHRA business man, and had to trim something from the program for some new class, which classes would YOU trim? That's right, the ones where the fans leave the stands. They've already done it to some of Stock, S/S and Super Street, where else can they trim? And I can bet that there will STILL be more people interested in 8 second wheel standing SS/AH and 9 second stockers than the Super Class cars at a National event - hell, even the nitro teams watch the SS Hemi Shootout.
Yup, Super Class racing of today - real interesting....Look how clever this guy was to string together all these timers and electro-pneumatic devices just so he could....Hurry up, wait....then hurry up again, then wait some more at the top end.... endlessly thrilling, if you're engrossed in the engineering it takes to do that, but like having root canal to everyone else.
the majority of the spectators are not there to watch anything else but what they see on TV...
youre talking all over the board about things that dont matter, or personally I dont care about. if you dont like some of the classes that are running, then go get your spectator goodie bag, grab your autographs, and wait for the things you like to run.
MEANWHILE, you did it again, you are speaking for a whole lot of people, based on your narrow views.
I wrote and said that I like super racing, and you just put it down like what you think is what matters, whats wrong with you? why cant you just say something like, you know, I dont care for that type of racing, but if its something you enjoy, for whatever reason, then I'm glad theres something for you to see.
seriously what is wrong with some of you people?
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: plasticfantastic]
#619948
02/24/10 10:25 PM
02/24/10 10:25 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,257
acworth / N. georgia - south e...
cheapstreetdustr
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,257
acworth / N. georgia - south e...
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
speak for yourself, because right here is someone that enjoys Super class racing, and its not the sugar coated finish line excuses that you said. I also know many others that enjoy watching it.
I enjoy it because of the engineering side of it, what they are doing to make the car do what its doing.
That's the problem - I DID like watching the Super class cars, in the early days when cars left the line at full throttle and stayed there most of the way, but all that "engineering" you speak of that's so interesting one day is going to be the death of them at the national event level.
Drag racings' most unique feature is a full acceleration start. Anything less SUCKS - period. Your throttle stop and timer ruin it for the majority of spectators - THE PAYING CUSTOMERS. Forget about not needing fans at some Bracket Bash - we're talking about National events. NHRA seems to keep thinking of more new forms and classes to squeeze into the show - well, guess what, an event is only so many hours and so many days long. Now, if you were Compton or some other NHRA business man, and had to trim something from the program for some new class, which classes would YOU trim? That's right, the ones where the fans leave the stands. They've already done it to some of Stock, S/S and Super Street, where else can they trim? And I can bet that there will STILL be more people interested in 8 second wheel standing SS/AH and 9 second stockers than the Super Class cars at a National event - hell, even the nitro teams watch the SS Hemi Shootout.
Yup, Super Class racing of today - real interesting....Look how clever this guy was to string together all these timers and electro-pneumatic devices just so he could....Hurry up, wait....then hurry up again, then wait some more at the top end.... endlessly thrilling, if you're engrossed in the engineering it takes to do that, but like having root canal to everyone else.
the majority of the spectators are not there to watch anything else but what they see on TV...
youre talking all over the board about things that dont matter, or personally I dont care about. if you dont like some of the classes that are running, then go get your spectator goodie bag, grab your autographs, and wait for the things you like to run.
MEANWHILE, you did it again, you are speaking for a whole lot of people, based on your narrow views.
I wrote and said that I like super racing, and you just put it down like what you think is what matters, whats wrong with you? why cant you just say something like, you know, I dont care for that type of racing, but if its something you enjoy, for whatever reason, then I'm glad theres something for you to see.
seriously what is wrong with some of you people?
i hate to bash..but judging by the fans left in the seats during super runs..he's not the one in the minority..
by the way ...i waved at you up there at the top of the stands.....all by your self....
you never wave back...
i always wondered who that guy was..in the stands
cheapst.
365" Iron J heads,,3480lbs best 1.39 60ft on SS springs.10.54,124 mph ...6.67 1/8th et.average 60fts 1.46 w/ small cam &.063 no2 pill tagged & insured
[image][/image]
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: Sixpak]
#619949
02/25/10 01:19 AM
02/25/10 01:19 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,448
Phoenix, AZ
MoparBilly
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,448
Phoenix, AZ
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Quote:
That's the problem - I DID like watching the Super class cars, in the early days when cars left the line at full throttle and stayed there most of the way, but all that "engineering" you speak of that's so interesting one day is going to be the death of them at the national event level.
Drag racings' most unique feature is a full acceleration start. Anything less SUCKS - period. Your throttle stop and timer ruin it for the majority of spectators - THE PAYING CUSTOMERS. Forget about not needing fans at some Bracket Bash - we're talking about National events. NHRA seems to keep thinking of more new forms and classes to squeeze into the show - well, guess what, an event is only so many hours and so many days long. Now, if you were Compton or some other NHRA business man, and had to trim something from the program for some new class, which classes would YOU trim? That's right, the ones where the fans leave the stands. They've already done it to some of Stock, S/S and Super Street, where else can they trim? And I can bet that there will STILL be more people interested in 8 second wheel standing SS/AH and 9 second stockers than the Super Class cars at a National event - hell, even the nitro teams watch the SS Hemi Shootout.
Yup, Super Class racing of today - real interesting....Look how clever this guy was to string together all these timers and electro-pneumatic devices just so he could....Hurry up, wait....then hurry up again, then wait some more at the top end.... endlessly thrilling, if you're engrossed in the engineering it takes to do that, but like having root canal to everyone else.
Sixpack,
How many National Events have you competed at?? Why do you choose to bash a class you obviously know nothing about?? Never ONCE, have I been running SST at a National, and seen empty grandstands, period. Never ONCE has anyone said to me, "Man, your t-stop ruined the Nationals for me". GET A GRIP!! There are plenty of things to see and do at a National event, and everyone can make their own choice as to when they want to sit on their butt in the stands.
I can't tell you how many times I've been sitting in the stands during SG, and a fan will ask his buddy whats going on..as soon as I start explaining it, I'll have 15 or 20 people around me listening intently, and eager to learn and understand the class
"Livin' in a powder keg and givin' off sparks"
4 Street cars, 5 Race engines
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: MoparBilly]
#619950
02/25/10 07:52 AM
02/25/10 07:52 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,667
Arizona
Chris'sBarracuda
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,667
Arizona
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Well said Billy. I agree that Super Class may be boring to some, but like Billy said, it's mostly because they don't understand it. My Dad didn't get it until I explained it fully--during elims. Then he got it and really understood it. It's all math he said.. Anyway.. To each his own... I enjoy it, and have a handful of Wallys from doing it... Can't get those from the Grandstands or Internet, complaining.  BTW.. I don't refer to Super Classes as racing. But it is a COMPETITION, and a damn good one.. Stand at the finish line some time.. Chris..
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: Chris'sBarracuda]
#619951
02/25/10 12:24 PM
02/25/10 12:24 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
camastomcat
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
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Quote:
Well said Billy.
I agree that Super Class may be boring to some, but like Billy said, it's mostly because they don't understand it.
My Dad didn't get it until I explained it fully--during elims. Then he got it and really understood it. It's all math he said..
Anyway.. To each his own... I enjoy it, and have a handful of Wallys from doing it... Can't get those from the Grandstands or Internet, complaining.
BTW.. I don't refer to Super Classes as racing.
But it is a COMPETITION, and a damn good one.. Stand at the finish line some time..
Chris..
I couldn't agree more. But that being said, that's the problem with our sport. It's a little too technical for the average slack jawed goober to cling to. And our people in the know aren't the ones that get a chance to explain the technical part of super class racing. Heck alot of bracket racers can't grasp the technique that goes into it. And as for the typical fan, all they see is the car launch, slow, then speed up again and they can't understand why the guy who gets to the finish line first looses. That's the issue and why eventually IMO Top Dragster and Top Sportsman will take over. It's still bracket racing, but there is qualifying and it's fast. Juat my thoughts, and by the way, too bad about the woman killed at the races. I hear she was married to one of the racers. Very sad indeed.
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: cudasteve68]
#619954
02/25/10 02:18 PM
02/25/10 02:18 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
camastomcat
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
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Quote:
I am a little worried of the type of person that would post a video that showed the death of that woman. Even more worried about a person who would watch it time after time in slow motion......
Remeber we lost a humon life here, please think of that while you posting pictures and videos.
How would you feel if someone posted videos of your wife being killed in a freak accident.
NHRA pulled them for a reason.
Really, I don't think it had to do with anything more than just trying to figure out what happened. It wasn't anything morbid IMO. I am sure the NHRA and insurance companies are doing the same thing.
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: camastomcat]
#619955
02/25/10 03:20 PM
02/25/10 03:20 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
dOrk !
The village idiot's idiot
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The village idiot's idiot
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
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Hey Guyz ... something INTERESTING I feel I should add to this conversation ..... Last nite(2am-ish) I was doing some cruising-of-topics and went into WHO'S ONLINE and GUESS WHO was reading this topic ? .... .... NDragster ! ..... and like Sgt Schlutz ...... he says and "knows" NOTHING ? .. !!  
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: dOrk !]
#619958
02/25/10 03:27 PM
02/25/10 03:27 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
camastomcat
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
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Quote:
Hey Guyz ... something INTERESTING I feel I should add to this conversation .....
Last nite(2am-ish) I was doing some cruising-of-topics and went into WHO'S ONLINE and GUESS WHO was reading this topic ? ....
.... NDragster !
..... and like Sgt Schlutz ...... he says and "knows" NOTHING ? .. !!
Who cares? Perhaps they'll get a clue????
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: cudasteve68]
#619959
02/25/10 04:26 PM
02/25/10 04:26 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 8,647
ELYRIA,OH
blownzoom440
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 8,647
ELYRIA,OH
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Quote:
How would you feel if someone posted videos of your wife being killed in a freak accident.
NHRA pulled them for a reason.
and it was so nice of NHRA to keep racing. 
i have a lot to say but wont.useless here to try.
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: maximum entropy]
#619962
02/25/10 05:38 PM
02/25/10 05:38 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,977
new jersey usa
11secdart
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,977
new jersey usa
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Thats thinking with your dipstick I`m still getting N.D. though my membership expired in Jan. and I got the credit card statement so they got the $$$.
68 Dart 410 / 904
92 D150 original owner
21 Ram 1500 Quad Cab, Big Horn , Hemi ,4x4
23 Audi Q5
16 Honda HRV
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: 11secdart]
#619963
02/25/10 05:44 PM
02/25/10 05:44 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,257
acworth / N. georgia - south e...
cheapstreetdustr
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,257
acworth / N. georgia - south e...
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Fwiw.. I attend alot of Nhra national events.. if ...God forbid i die during or at an event.. buy all means please continue the races after my issues have been addressed... id hate to spoil the day for everyone... no kidding... unless i am electricuted by a loose wire...then by all means fix the wire... then proceed with the show... cheapst. 
365" Iron J heads,,3480lbs best 1.39 60ft on SS springs.10.54,124 mph ...6.67 1/8th et.average 60fts 1.46 w/ small cam &.063 no2 pill tagged & insured
[image][/image]
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: cheapstreetdustr]
#619964
02/25/10 05:46 PM
02/25/10 05:46 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,095
Idaho
Runner
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,095
Idaho
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Quote:
Fwiw.. I attend alot of Nhra national events..
if ...God forbid i die during or at an event..
buy all means please continue the races after my issues have been addressed...
id hate to spoil the day for everyone...
no kidding...
unless i am electricuted by a loose wire...then by all means fix the wire...
then proceed with the show...
cheapst.
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: cheapstreetdustr]
#619965
02/25/10 05:52 PM
02/25/10 05:52 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
BobR
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
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Quote:
Fwiw.. I attend alot of Nhra national events..
if ...God forbid i die during or at an event..
buy all means please continue the races after my issues have been addressed...
id hate to spoil the day for everyone...
no kidding...
unless i am electricuted by a loose wire...then by all means fix the wire...
then proceed with the show...
cheapst.
Exactly. Some people seem to have an exaggerated sense of importance in the overall scheme of things. Maybe we should also close down a freeway for a few days after a fatal accident?
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: Challenger 1]
#619967
02/25/10 09:21 PM
02/25/10 09:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,120
City of Champions
Prostock
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,120
City of Champions
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Quote:
Quote:
And BobR is correct. There is only one reason that P/S and PS/B run BEFORE the fuel cars. The stands would be empty if they didn't. Every class from P/S on down is merely space filler between rounds of fuel.
Not true
The main reason PS run in front of the fuelers is because of the clutch dust the fuelers leave on the track.
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: mopacltd]
#619969
02/26/10 09:15 AM
02/26/10 09:15 AM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
camastomcat
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
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Quote:
The call I got a couple of hours ago said that a S/C door car was on the roof in the left lane at 1,000 foot mark.
Was that at the divisional this weekend?
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: MoparBilly]
#619971
02/26/10 09:45 AM
02/26/10 09:45 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 9,366
Lehigh Acres, Florida
rickstershemi
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 9,366
Lehigh Acres, Florida
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Quote:
Quote:
The call I got a couple of hours ago said that a S/C door car was on the roof in the left lane at 1,000 foot mark.
C'mon ChuckO',
S/C door car is just a Pro-Stocker with a t-stop!!
Hardly
Rickster
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: cheapstreetdustr]
#619972
02/26/10 11:37 AM
02/26/10 11:37 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,840
The Swamp
Sixpak
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,840
The Swamp
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
speak for yourself, because right here is someone that enjoys Super class racing, and its not the sugar coated finish line excuses that you said. I also know many others that enjoy watching it.
I enjoy it because of the engineering side of it, what they are doing to make the car do what its doing.
That's the problem - I DID like watching the Super class cars, in the early days when cars left the line at full throttle and stayed there most of the way, but all that "engineering" you speak of that's so interesting one day is going to be the death of them at the national event level.
Drag racings' most unique feature is a full acceleration start. Anything less SUCKS - period. Your throttle stop and timer ruin it for the majority of spectators - THE PAYING CUSTOMERS. Forget about not needing fans at some Bracket Bash - we're talking about National events. NHRA seems to keep thinking of more new forms and classes to squeeze into the show - well, guess what, an event is only so many hours and so many days long. Now, if you were Compton or some other NHRA business man, and had to trim something from the program for some new class, which classes would YOU trim? That's right, the ones where the fans leave the stands. They've already done it to some of Stock, S/S and Super Street, where else can they trim? And I can bet that there will STILL be more people interested in 8 second wheel standing SS/AH and 9 second stockers than the Super Class cars at a National event - hell, even the nitro teams watch the SS Hemi Shootout.
Yup, Super Class racing of today - real interesting....Look how clever this guy was to string together all these timers and electro-pneumatic devices just so he could....Hurry up, wait....then hurry up again, then wait some more at the top end.... endlessly thrilling, if you're engrossed in the engineering it takes to do that, but like having root canal to everyone else.
the majority of the spectators are not there to watch anything else but what they see on TV...
youre talking all over the board about things that dont matter, or personally I dont care about. if you dont like some of the classes that are running, then go get your spectator goodie bag, grab your autographs, and wait for the things you like to run.
MEANWHILE, you did it again, you are speaking for a whole lot of people, based on your narrow views.
I wrote and said that I like super racing, and you just put it down like what you think is what matters, whats wrong with you? why cant you just say something like, you know, I dont care for that type of racing, but if its something you enjoy, for whatever reason, then I'm glad theres something for you to see.
seriously what is wrong with some of you people?
i hate to bash..but judging by the fans left in the seats during super runs..he's not the one in the minority..
by the way ...i waved at you up there at the top of the stands.....all by your self....
you never wave back...
i always wondered who that guy was..in the stands
cheapst.
I've done my share of bracket racing over the years, never competed at a National Event or a Divisional. Even considered building a Super Gas car in the early 90's, til I saw where things were going with the electronics and such...
I've been on both sides of the fence, and can see a particular race from both perspectives - a competitor, and a spectator (and not a slack-jawed one, at that...). Scoff at those slack jawed spectators if you will, but their entertainment dollars are just as green as any well educated Super class fan.
Someone posted on another topic the new rules for the NHRA Unleashed series - No delay boxes or T stops...admittedly these classes are new and are contested at limited venues, but they seem to be modeled after what the fans want to watch from other series, and if they gain in popularity  Could these classes eventually replace at least some of the Super classes as we know them? 
INDEX CLASSES
DESIGNATION
There will be 5 index classes contested at all NHRA Unleashed events:
· 8.50 Index (.400 Pro Tree)
· 10.00 Index (.400 Pro Tree)
· 11.00 Index (.500 Pro Tree)
· 12.00 Index (.500 Pro Tree)
· 13.00 Index (.500 Pro Tree)
Racers competing in these classes refer to the 2010 NHRA Rulebook, Section 4, E.T. HANDICAP
RACING and Section 20, GENERAL REGULATIONS for rules and regulations for the appropriate
E.T. and vehicle type used with the following exceptions:
· Reserved for full-bodied cars with full fenders, hood, grille, top, windshield, and
functional doors.
· Delay boxes and/or timed throttle stops prohibited
· Transbrakes permitted
· Two-steps permitted
I ain't picking on anyone's particular class, per se, I'm trying to suggest ways to reduce costs and bring the fun back to drag racing, for both the fan and the participant.
It seems the more these cars cost, the less fun they are. Eliminating fuel and magneto may make the fuel cars safer and bring the costs down. Same holds true by eliminating electronics and other timing accessories in the Super categories, and it returns the visual appeal to these cars for the fans.
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: mopacltd]
#619974
02/26/10 12:29 PM
02/26/10 12:29 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:
Got word that the said car was licensing and did the unthinkable. Got out of shape, got it straightnened out and stabbed the throttle again.
If that is what happened, then I sure as hell wouldn't sign his license. No one else should either.
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Post deleted by Defbob
[Re: MoparBilly]
#619975
02/26/10 12:45 PM
02/26/10 12:45 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
#619976
02/26/10 01:00 PM
02/26/10 01:00 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:
Man...I would love to spend a day with all the bashers who have no clue and let them drive my car in a S/R race...just to see how boring it really is....Seriously...just show up at the track and I'll strap you in....
When I went to Frank Hawleys drag race school years ago, I had trouble staying on the gas and getting there SG car to the finish line. It was a eye opening/scary experience. Nothing boring about it.
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
#619978
02/26/10 01:26 PM
02/26/10 01:26 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,231
State of retirement
52savoy
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,231
State of retirement
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just to see how boring it really is....Seriously...just show up at the track and I'll strap you in.... -------------------- It's a deal!!!
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: 52savoy]
#619979
02/28/10 08:17 AM
02/28/10 08:17 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,030
NH
torredcuda
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,030
NH
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Quote:
just to see how boring it really is....Seriously...just show up at the track and I'll strap you in....
--------------------
It's a deal!!!
I`m sure it is NOT boring to drive but it is boring for many of the spectators to watch,even those of us who also race and know what is happening.
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: torredcuda]
#619980
02/28/10 11:00 AM
02/28/10 11:00 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 9,366
Lehigh Acres, Florida
rickstershemi
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 9,366
Lehigh Acres, Florida
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Quote:
Quote:
just to see how boring it really is....Seriously...just show up at the track and I'll strap you in....
--------------------
It's a deal!!!
I`m sure it is NOT boring to drive but it is boring for many of the spectators to watch,even those of us who also race and know what is happening.
Then go buy a T-Shirt or get some Autographs....see simple fix 
I usually get my Autographs when the bicycles line up.....
Rickster
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: rickstershemi]
#619981
02/28/10 11:57 AM
02/28/10 11:57 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,448
Phoenix, AZ
MoparBilly
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,448
Phoenix, AZ
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For anyone who wants to see some amazing photos of both Pro-Stock crashes, Antron's crash, and even the SST crash check out this blog...unbeleivable!!! Mark J Rebilas Photography
"Livin' in a powder keg and givin' off sparks"
4 Street cars, 5 Race engines
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Re: accident at Phoenix?
[Re: MoparBilly]
#619982
02/28/10 12:45 PM
02/28/10 12:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
For anyone who wants to see some amazing photos of both Pro-Stock crashes, Antron's crash, and even the SST crash check out this blog...unbeleivable!!! Mark J Rebilas Photography
great pics, it showed the tire over 20' in the air before leaving the track. so you can throw the fence idea out.
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