This is for '70 E-body, I got the Energy Suspension front bushing kit 5.3112g

Is this how it goes together in the picture, grease everything up and push it all together ? I'm not missing any washers or anything am I ?

The outer shell is in the LCA and the inner shell is on the spindle.

You MUST use that thick and gooey white/clear urethane paste-grease or these will S-q-u-e-a-k !

Thanks Kern Dog, I bought an extra tub of that stuff, they never give you enough with those itty bitty packets.

Sand the rubber out off the inner and outer shells.

I sanded then polished mine. Never squeak since 1997.

Agreed More is better and wipe off the excess after assembly.
BTW Great stuff isn't it? I've even thought of putting it on door knobs, car door handle's of those that have uhh PMO. Also be great on a co-workers tools, tool box drawers etc.

"Also be great on a co-workers tools, tool box drawers etc. "


so YOU are the guy that was always greasing my office door knob at work !

Your assy process is correct, however I recommend you purchase the front 2 pc strut rod poly package, the stock strut rod bushings in the K frame will splay the LCA's rearward when you start to mount everything up

DAYCLONA, I was leaning against doing those on the strut rod, but this is my first rodeo.

Are you saying the stock rubber bushings don't compress quite enough ?
I see that the OE setup does not appear to have any length adjustability.

Well guess what, I found a new set of Moog K7026 strut rod bushings,
I think I bought these about 25 years ago.

Performance Suspension Technology, p-s-t.com, has adjustable strut rods for $325 a pair

Anybody tried them ?

NOT ME I wouldn't do such a thing to a decent person

The problem with those IMO is you are side loading the bushing to achieve adjustment (usually more caster) that was not designed in. If you desire more adjustment I would recommend Adjustable upper control arms.

Side loading the LCA bushing, OK I see that.

Our cars have, unfortunately, not the greatest front suspension geometry. The fulcrum axis of the strut rod is not co-linear with the the torsion bar axis,
so the LCA bushing is going to be deformed anyway by the different arcs of movement of the LCA and the strut rod, moving up and down. Oh well.

I was just thinking about ease of assembly. I guess it's not that bad.

Hmmm, if putting ‘grease’ on the bushing what keeps the LCA from coming off? Or at the very least moving back and forth? There’s a reason the pin is so hard to get out when replacing.

Exactly the reason why I wouldn't put poly bushings on the front end of a street driven car ... but that's me .

People that swear by them say they don't move back and forth ....

The rubber is the part that twists or moves. Not much since the wheel should only move up and down 3-4” in normal day to day driving, I doubt many do Dukes of Hazard jumps everyday.

Torsion bar keeps the LCA in place....

I do not use this system, I replace with NOS lower control arm bushings. It's not that difficult. I have seen cars with them on and they did move.
my 2cents
Bob

I thought this debate was put to bed years ago and the poly lost due to squeaks and movement. Seems not.

I've used both polyurethane and poly graphite-impregnated on other cars and never had a squeak.
The issue of movement, of either the T-bar or the LCA, is new to me.

The proper use of an adjustable strut rod will allow you to fine tune the Poly LCA bushing so it's snug against the K-frame.

I just cut 3/16" off the rear poly strut bushing to bring mine tight. Ran it that way from 1997 to 2011. Nothing wrong with them. Just got a prototype/promo Hotchkis setup.

The LCA poly bushings are the same ones from 1997. The guy at Hotchkis said they were still good and fit well. So he left them in.

I doubt by much as the factory boys weren't stupid and the failure rate of the bushings would have made it apparent. However that is providing the LCA and Strut remain in a fixed position to each other as designed. When one starts playing with the length of the strut that goes in the sh-tter Bubba's ideas are not always good for the distance and many times lead to other problems. One would have to geometrically lay it out to see exactly how much movement was at the pivot point in the factory design.
I strongly suspect the adjustable struts came into use as other mfr's did use the strut for adjustment BUT with a different LCA design and Bubba couldn't get his caster where he wanted so let's do what them people at Ford and GM did on SOME of their cars. Hey Leroy, go get a couple of cases of beer while I start hacking this idea out. Next thing one sees is they're being marketed as a solution. Remember Slick 50? MPG improvers, engine rebuild pellets for your oil burner? LOL Those and thousands of other products were all designed to get money form your pocket to theirs and some were quite successful LOL

As far as the urethane goes, had them in my 68 Charger for 30 years without an issue. Other cars as well

The T-bar moves forward and back too, it doesn’t fit tight in the LCA

Agreed... BTDT

RUBBER AND POLY PIECES CAN BE MIXED UP ANYWHERE BUT between those two mentioned as explained.

It will compress too much. The poly bushings on LCA doesn't have the same friction than rubber, so LCA will be able to move in and out. The strut rod is not strong enough to absorb this move and will compres up to crack. BTDT

You’re right, the T-bar is not a tight fit.

But it doesn’t move. Mark and measure them at the rear. No movement for and aft. There’s ~1/4” of distance between T-bar rear end and the wire C-clip if you install the T-bar pushed forward.

There’s a massive amount of pound per square inch on the hex edge contact points.

I’ve been off course on the track and couple times and never a movement. Once I bent a rallye rim center section and bottomed a shock. Another time almost rolled it and went into infield desert 200ft or so sideways.

All with poly LCA bushings.

Yes a lot of pressure on the bar, but it could move. What I said was the LCA moves on the bar, as you said 1/4” lateral play. With that being said the strut acts as a pivot between tire and bushing with friction of tire pushing back and bushing moving forward, hard reverse will move it back. IF a loose movable type bushing is used

I


Ya that is not quite the story on adjustable strut rods. They are designed to make up for the [censored], shoddy construction of the cars and especially the k-frames. What you do is put the car on a frame machine or alignment rack and square the frame, get the rear end in the car square, then get the left and right wheelbase the same. You would be amazed at how well these cars align after you do that. Ever measure a dozen mopar strut rods? They vary a lot. Anyway you can do this at home on a garage floor with plumb bobs, rear spring bracket shims, various strut rods and a little time. I set it axle center to lower ball joint center at ride height with just the lower arm in. Lower bushing style is not a big deal to me, but the urethane strut bushings will need that 3/16" removed from the back side to get the wheelbase right. If I remember right the moog improved strut bushings were also too thick. Adjustable struts are fantastic, your alignment guy can get it right real fast without bushing mods, restorations are a different animal, will need various strut rods or the ability to machine or shim them, but you can get it perfect. If you want a bunch of caster, and I would give it more
with radials, use the problem solver upper bushings or adjustable upper arms.

l'll not disagree on the first part of your commentary as I have NO experience with what you say but will 100% agree with the bolded part
To me the adjustable struts are comparable to cutting coil springs to lower a car. IT does lower the car BUT screws up suspension geometry, travel and ride quality in the process. So Bubba accomplishes his goal while being UHH? (be nice) on the effects.
If you have a sense of humor and the time, some other examples of his work can be found here BUBBA'S SHOP IDEAS AND FIXES
LOL And yes, I have a lot more examples LOL

I think you would change your mind on adjustable struts if you ever tried to get a car squared up, keep in mind 1/4" at the strut socket is more at the wheel, then if the other side is off the opposite way you end up 3/4-1" off on your wheel base. 1/2" is about 2 degrees so we are out of adjustment to start. Worst I have seen a mopar is 1-1/8" off side to side. Now add in strut bushings that are wrong and we wonder why these cars can drive so bad, and alignment guys hate working on them. Adjustable struts are a fantastic for mopars, just not to add caster we can all agree on that. Good alignment guys love it when the car has both I can tell you that. I figured this out 36 years ago when I redid the front end on the wife's Cuda with moog parts, drove worse than when it was stock, threw it on a frame machine and said OIC junk parts. I fix the wheelbase on every mopar I touch now that I know.

On the fixed radius of strut and LCA on an A-body k-frame I found the true pivot point to be on the forward side of the strut ‘hole’ (where the rubber biscuits go) so I made my heim joint bracket on that side, now both (strut and arm) swing in the same arc, not moving back and forth. I’ve also made the lower arm with a greasable bronze bushing with a bolt in the back to keep it ON the pin, But I’ve been called stupid and wrong so I’ll leave it at that.

Cudaman69, I sure would be interested in seeing a picture of your strut setup, if possible. Thank you !

I'm not a fan of the poly lower control arm bushings. I have installed them in the past, and would not use them again. I know plenty of people do, but i also do not like switching to the green axle bearings in an 8 3/4 either. The lower control arm bushings are not only a pivot, but they also fix the lower control arm in for and aft movement. I think Chrysler engineers got this right, and I would not change that on my own car.
My personal bushing recipe on my Mopars:

OEM style upper and lower control arm bushings.
Poly strut rod bushings
Poly sway bar and link bushings.

Do not tighten the upper control arm adjusters or lower control pivot nut until the car is set at correct ride height, and aligned, so the bushings are relaxed at rest. This helps them last.

Hope pics come out ok. Had vid of me working it up and down with one finger but can’t seem to find it

Found it but wouldn’t load. Started out with the QA1 piece but it would bind on full travel, this for a race car with tires off ground (hopefully)
street car wouldn’t need this setup (I would hope your street car don’t have tires in the air)

Thanks Cudaman, that's quite the interesting idea !

This guy gets it. Another trick is cutting down the steel strut rod bushing. They are usually too long and get crushed on one end when the steel bushing binds up.

On the subject of poly bushings I see two aspects not discussed.

First is that oil and poly bushings do not mix. If you have a long standing engine oil leak it will kill the LCA bushings. Most of the cars I have seen with short poly bushing life were leakers. Do not use petroleum products on poly bushings. Summit and others sell a high viscosity silicone grease that is packed in a tube for your grease gun.

I have had issues with aftermarket greasable LCA pins (QA1, Proforged, etc.) not registering correctly in the stock k frame. The profile of the aftermarket pins is different than the stock pieces. I end up cutting the profile back to 1.150" from the threaded end and tilt the cutter to give a .100 chamfer for a total of 1.250". I informed QA1 of this issue in 2013.

That said, I think the poly bushings finally became viable on a street/low maintenance car when the greasable LCA pivots and UCA's with grease fittings on the bushing housing bore. Prior to that you had to r&r the LCA bushing if they started to squeak. Not the end of the world if you have the means, yet very annoying as a maintenance item.

This was contrary to what I knew of polyurethane bushings A bit of research shows that depending on the materials used when making the the raw material some are in fact susceptible to petroleum products while others are resistant. I would expect that a REPUTABLE supplier would be sourcing the latter. There is more info in the following link and comments
LINKY

I'm wondering how many ppl actually use their cars as a drivers to really test all the parts. Anybody can say "I have a poly assembly since 20 years now and I haven't had any problem"... but, how many miles?

In my experience, is just about match correctly the parts to guarantee the effectiveness on the assembly.

This is it exactly, they putt-putt around to car shows. I hate urethane and poly end link bushings, always deformed and wiped out, and will be switching the front and rear bar to the Ford expedition style ball joint end links. I figure it will break the rear spring sway bar plates but I will gusset them. Stock lower bushings and moog problem solver uppers have served me well. End link bushings not so much.

Oil resistant is like water resistant. Not oil PROOF.

The difference in our knowledge on the subject is that my side is based on first hand experience and discussion with various manufacturers. Save the google fact checking for someone else please.

Stop in at any diesel repair shop that does front end work and they will confirm what I have conveyed.

While we are googling; see if you can find a poly bushing manufacturer that recommends petro grease. I'd be interested to see the products and which grease they suggest.

I have had several cars with poly front end bushings and driven them year round in 4 seasons (studded tires, mountain passes etc) with no issue other than the lack of lubrication over time. One trip was 15 hours straight to the North Rim of the Grand Canyon in November. I am confident they do the job well with the updates I mentioned previously.

Put it back in and zip your pants up

Where did I say it was OIL PROOF? I didn't You interpreted that

If one has an oil leak that bad they have problems other than bushings

Your knowledge has become of little interest to me because of your attitude and responses

The only diesels I am near are my neighbors acreage tractors.

Nor am I interested in the experiences of Diesel repair shops that do front end work as my vehicles don't see that kind of use nor do I allow a leak to go unrepaired

Where did I say a polyurethane bushing manufacturer recommended petroleum grease? I didn't Once again YOU interpreted that

You ASSumed and misinterpreted a lot from my comments.

So zip it up and I'll ignore your worldly knowledge and you can do the same

-Leaf polys installed 1994/5 on OE leafs (hotchkis leafs -2011).
-Poly strut rods installed 1994-5. Used the lathe in my collage lab class to shorten the rear bushings (Hotchkis rods 2011) .
-Poly LCA bushings went in 1997 with the new K-member. Still installed. Picture in prior post.
-Poly Sway bar bushings... had many sway bars, each with different K-member polys.
-Poly Trans Mount installed sometime prior to 2000. I can't remember exactly. PITA to swap the poly insert. Real tight.

I have well over 60K miles in various configurations of these parts. It was my daily car from 1993 to 2004. I drove it from LA to Iowa State Univ. 1600 miles each way for summer 1993 to 1997 (have pics). Usually within 40 to 60 hours without a hotel room stop (have gas receipts). It’s been on mini trips Chicago and Minneapolis with it a couple times (have pics). Driven in ice storms and snow too (have pics)

While in Iowa, I autocross raced around Iowa usually 60-90 miles each way (Oskaloosa Airport, Ak-Sar-Ben Lincoln NE, Cedar Rapids, Davenport, Marshalltown Go-Kart track…

I did a rings, bearings, rebuilt heads in 1993. It still has original pistons.… by 2011 it was blowing oil out breathers. On the way to a mopar show 50mi from home I caught a rod knock and had it towed home. About 2 years earlier a pro driver was instructing me on track and lost oil pressure. Jim Lusk was there that day. Still took laps later that day, then drove it 85 miles home.

I drove it daily to work from 1999 to 2004 from La Cienega/10fwy to Westlake Village. 36 miles each way over the most traveled stretch of freeway in the US (Sepulveda Pass/405 fwy)

From 2004 to 2015 I drove a company van for work. But my Cuda was my only drivable car I owned otherwise. In 2011 I replaced the original 340 with rod knock for a 416 stroker (450+ hp) I’ve got over 9K miles on that stroker motor right now. I bought a new Challenger in 2015.

Over the years....

-5 different sets of rims (bent one)
-5 different front sway bars
-5 different brands of front shocks (had oil spit out of a couple)
-3 different sizes of Torsion bars
-2 different types of K-members (broke one)
-7-10 sets of tires
-7+ paid professional alignments

So yea. I’ve put some miles on it. And I’ve put some real hard miles on it at that.

Would anyone agree that the base problem is the very design using that bushing?

Back in the day, when these cars were still daily drivers, it was common for the cars to chase every crack in the road. Especially A bodies. The lowers were often worn out by 80,000 miles. I have seen them worn so bad by 100k, that they had worn through the outer shell. B and E bodies were only slightly better. I have never torn down a front end that didn't need the lower replaced. And I mean even back in the 70s and on cars with less than 100k let alone in subsequent decades.

It is a poor design at least in terms of longevity in my humble opinion. It seems obvious that either material can be used successfully but the newer materials have some learning curve to them. Heck, even removing the shells when going back with rubber ones takes some experience or at least some advice. Just a poor design.

A-bodies chasing cracks must have been where my old man learned to AIM for pot holes !
from 1966 on, and especially during my junkyard ownership days of 1972-1984, darts, dusters, swingers, valiants, and all manor of A-bodies were used and abused by my old man, sisters, and my brother.
it was usually on a rotational basis, as when one was crunched or broken, i supplied another.
when riding with my old man in one of his chryslers, when he hit a pot hole, we would give him the devil ! he always responded : "you don't feel those as bad in this as when you're driving that [insert A-body of choice here] !"
what a guy ! he totaled my 64 barracuda when i lent it to him to go to work, so i could service his chrysler [at the time].
it was to be expected when one let him borrow a car, you had a "repair" to do when it came back.

I think because the power steering leaks on top of the drivers bushing, those fail at higher rate than passenger.

Also because the LCA rubber bushing are relatively thin, there is less cushion and less rubber to spread the twisting action. I think that leads to deterioration.

I have a 68 Dart convertible. I'll replace the LCA bushing with rubber on that car. Even though I have extra poly LCA bushing laying around. I want the rubber to soak up the vibrations. Convertible's are rattle traps.

There is nothing wrong with the factory lca bushing design.

I can say for sure my hardware and ideas have been well tested – there are only a few of us that have real test data. Info below is from over 2 decades running lap on Watkins Glenn International Raceway 2x yr/2 days per event. Both cars are street driven and can go anywhere and are not caged -the Charger has a lot more chassis work [welding etc] and less hp than the other but both ran under the lap time “number" at the Glen for a hot full lap 2 min 30 sec. I still have the 70 Charger R/T. Old iron that runs under the number gets a lot of attention.Can your car run 140+ mph with no vibration...mine do

This is why my 2 well mannered nice driving track cars and 4406BBL’s are faster/quicker than the rest. QUOTING: that is not quite the story on adjustable strut rods. They are designed to make up for the [censored], shoddy construction of the cars and especially the k-frames. What you do is put the car on a frame machine or alignment rack and square the frame, get the rear end in the car square, then get the left and right wheelbase the same. You would be amazed at how well these cars align after you do that. Ever measure a dozen mopar strut rods? They vary a lot. Anyway you can do this at home on a garage floor with plumb bobs, rear spring bracket shims, various strut rods and a little time. I set it axle center to lower ball joint center at ride height with just the lower arm in. Lower bushing style is not a big deal to me, but the urethane strut bushings will need that 3/16" removed from the back side to get the wheelbase right. If I remember right the moog improved strut bushings were also too thick. Adjustable struts are fantastic, your alignment guy can get it right real fast without bushing mods, restorations are a different animal, will need various strut rods or the ability to machine or shim them, but you can get it perfect. If you want a bunch of caster, and I would give it more with radials, use the problem solver upper bushings or adjustable upper arms. END Well done!

If the car is not prom queen,or the just drive to the cruise/show type I suggest adjustable struts with the heim joint end – I have yet to have any issues with the heim joint failing. Proper installation. Make me laugh some more at the old wives tales about using a oem rubber lca bushing vs the aftermarket items and torsion bars moving?? Really? The oem lca bushings tear because the front-end height is supposed to set with them at rest or 0 position – pin bolt loose enough – goldilocks. I doubt very much changing the lca bushings to other than oem is going improve the lap time number on the Charger…using oem keeps the ride from becoming like a buck board wagon. Real performance is measured in lap times. I never had one fail even after years of track time. I did have a stock uca failure at the track. Upper a arms should be aftermarket adjustable with plastic type bushings

As far as motion geometry of the suspension….the aftermarket adj struts improve the suspension motion geometry to a very large degree & free's up the motion as well. You should see the difference of alignment geometry between stock and the proper set up as the suspension moves thru it’s motion. The change in the car is amazing and improves the ride.

I will also call BS on green bearings. The last car at the track with that style bearings had an axle failure -snapped the wheel and hub off the bearing and the car almost hit the wall on turn 1. Biggest problem running OEM at the glen was the left rear bearing gets a lot of use and pressure. Clockwise track…….. Properly greased and with tight end play eliminates any problem whatsoever. How do i know that? Well after every event you inspect everything and I saw the gear oil weeping[from seal wear], even though the bearing looked good it was replaced, end play set and it was never ever touched it again. Use oem inner seals! they are still out there. Aftermarket seals are junk.

You are welcome to your opinion. Real world experience has shown since day one that most LCA bushings won't make it to 100k. 80K for A bodies. Been there, done that too many times to believe otherwise.

And since you brought up road racing, how were the T/A cars setup around the K member? The original Dan Gurney/Swede Savage AAR was stored and maintained here locally at R & R Racing for many years and I saw first hand how their suspension was set-up. And the LCA bushing as we know it was not a part of that. You may like the way that Ma Mopar designed that bushing, but Dan Gurney didn't. He made changes.

It was the least expensive way that would last the LIFE of the car, which was about 50-70 thousand miles back then.

Most likely true.