Wow, kinda like you guys never answering my e-mails when your balancer I bought from you came apart?!

Lol! KARMA calling on line 1. Doh...

Wow, kinda like you guys never answering my e-mails when your balancer I bought from you came apart?!

Wow, kinda like you guys never answering my e-mails when your balancer I bought from you came apart?!

Is that their SFI Fluidamper-style? If so, another Moparts member had one start to come apart on the dyno. He figured it out when he went to check the ignition timing and found the outer ring had slipped and started to come loose.

The sad part is, I've been a big proponent of 440Source (here and on Facebook) for a long time and use their heads, water pump housing, water pump, oil pan/pickup and other parts. I run the snot out of their stuff and have put together a pretty fast/reliable street car with their parts.

I really didn't expect them to do anything about it but a response after spending thousands of $ and referring thousands more their way would have been nice!

On the other hand Bob at Modern Cylinder Head answered my email and had my heads ported and sent back to me within 2 weeks!

I think it is pretty clear which business will never get another dime of my money!

I have been waiting on Bob to machine my SS Hemi heads since June 2016. I sent him $2k to buy the castings, another $2k in a progress payment when he said he was pulling the seats and going to start welding them. That was late 2016, I drove up to Detroit in the summer of 2017. Bob told me he was going to start on them "next week". I guess next week is like tomorrow, it never comes. I wouldn't pay Bob anything up front. I had Jeff do two sets of heads (bracket Hemi and W2s) and had good luck with Jeff. I filed a complaint with the BBB on MCH. The Michigan State Attorney General is next for me.


I've sent dozens of e-mails and left messages on the MCH machine. No replies at all. I may have to show up with the local police at some point.

I am sorry you sent an email that was not responded to, however it was likely a technical glitch, not an affront on your personal character. Kim Burns was in charge of technical emails, and he retired last month after more than 14 years on the job here. I am not familiar with your situation, but it's likely that we either never received the email, it went into junk mail for some reason, or it was on one of those days where we get hundreds of emails and it just got lost in the mix somehow. In any case, we have a tech line that is staffed 40 hours a week with real people willing to help, you could have easily picked up the phone at any time and given us a call and someone would have been here to address your concern.

GY3, you forgot to add that you got some of the blame too! A common tactic nowadays and it never looks good. Better to be silent,

Shame on me for thinking they would want an e-mail with pictures for proof of said failure of their product.

give them a call instead of bashing them on here.

Hello, we were wondering if anyone lives locally or has dealt with Bob at Modern Cylinder head recently. He does the CNC porting for us on our Stealth heads. We sent him a pallet of 50 heads last April. Over the last couple months, we have left numerous messages on his answering machine, sent emails, etc, asking what is happening with our pallet of heads, and there has been zero contact back to us. Just wondering if anyone knows him, or could help us with this situation in any way.

your problem has nothing to do with the original post handle it else where

So, you know about the problem now and you've still done nothing to address it other than place the blame on your email system and a guy that recently retired?!

When did you purchase it? If the part is under warranty (or even close to it), we will be more than happy to replace it for you.

I talked to Bob about 2 weeks ago. Called, left a message, he called me back, twice actually, then I picked up.
I'm going to guess that a whole pallet of unsold cylinder heads doesn't get the priority that an individual walk-in customer gets. And probably not as lucrative.

I totally get that, but when you take $25,000 of your customers product, and it's close to a year later, and they leave you a dozen phone messages on your answering machine over several months time, and send emails, and you return zero communication, that is bad business. If you are busy, no problem, just return one quick phone call or email and say "Sorry, I'm busy, I'm expecting to have them done in two months." Or whatever..

I totally get that, but when you take $25,000 of your customers product, and it's close to a year later, and they leave you a dozen phone messages on your answering machine over several months time, and send emails, and you return zero communication, that is bad business. If you are busy, no problem, just return one quick phone call or email and say "Sorry, I'm busy, I'm expecting to have them done in two months." Or whatever..

I wonder how many Bob has done so far from the pallet. I'm sure a bunch are done already. He did my W8 small block heads in 4 weeks.

I think that program was written long long ago and not likely the issue.

I think that program was written long long ago and not likely the issue.

I know Bob very well and I am not making any excuses for him but he is a 1 man shop and he is very overwhelmed working 14+ hrs seven days a wk. He really needs help but even if he found someone he dosnt have the time to stop and train them. I'm sure he will make things right.

I know Bob very well and I am not making any excuses for him but he is a 1 man shop and he is very overwhelmed working 14+ hrs seven days a wk. He really needs help but even if he found someone he dosnt have the time to stop and train them. I'm sure he will make things right.

Well, okay but...if you have so much work than you are putting in 14+ hours, 7 days per week and still not gaining ground then it's time to start saying NO to new work. Or NO to current work and give some projects back. If you're too busy to even COMMUNICATE with a valued customer then you're doing it wrong.

As of today 440 source is still waiting on any communication back from MCH

Also why I dug up this old thread is that Gary at Larry’s Machine is having the same problem

He sent a set of Indy small block heads for Cnc , which Modern already has a program for , but now no communication

Either on answering the phone or email

So is there anyone local to Modern that wants to make some money in stopping by Modern and picking up those heads and shipping them back to CT ??

And yes Larry’s Machine will gladly pay a recovery fee for doing so , send me a PM if interested or able to help

And I am sure Brandon at 440 Source would be interested on the same deal

I tried to pick up the heads today. Bob said I could not pick them up, so I asked if I could see the heads to prove he still had them. He said no and that he only had half of the heads and he was going to order the other half next week, which makes no sense. I hope Brandon is able to get something out of this guy. SMH

Sounds like time to get the cops involved.

I tried to pick up the heads today. Bob said I could not pick them up, so I asked if I could see the heads to prove he still had them. He said no and that he only had half of the heads and he was going to order the other half next week, which makes no sense. I hope Brandon is able to get something out of this guy. SMH

Don’t ever tell me the mooFarts s RIGHT HERE don’t like drama, suspense and intrigue !
Over EIGHT THOUSAND views !!
Witches pLeAsE !

But Tman .. doesn’t what happened to 6paker say an awful lot ?

What happened to 6pakdakota should be expected.

He doesn’t own any materials at MCH.

I’m not picking any sides or looking for a fight.
Look at it as a juror - plaintiff vs. defendant.

Seems pretty peculiar that a business would “keep” $25K of inventory from a customer and not reply to any calls or emails from that customer.

You are always going to get a dissatisfied customer now and then - he’ll, look at Indy.

Bad news travels fast. How many guys have dealt with MCH with no issues - a bunch.

Being a MCH customer since 2002, I have bever, ever experienced a problem. Neither Jeff or Bob ever asked me for money up front and always got me my heads back in less than a month.
I'm hoping that this isn't a start of something bad like Shady Dell.
I do know Nob is way over his head, busy.
He needs help but I don't think he wants to hire anyone for some reason.

If that's the case wouldn't it be better to turn away work? Why risk your business?

Any updates on this?

Yes, it's over four years later. A few local people were nice enough to "check in" with Bob at Modern Cylinder Head on our behalf to try to figure out what was going on. Long story short, he did CNC port the 50 heads we sent him. However, instead of sending them back to us, he then sold all the heads directly to his retail customers and kept 100% of the money.

Is this heading to court???

Surprised that someone calling for parts wouldn't have mentioned that along the way.

That's how we found out. People would call us and say "I just bought a pair of your CNC ported Stealth heads from Bob at Modern, I need to order head bolts, or gaskets (etc.) for them" Especially during times when we were out of stock of our heads. So it didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what was going on.

So you didn’t answer my question. Is it heading to court

No, not going to waste our time flying to Michigan to chase after a thief. Karma can do what it's going to do. When Jeff ran Modern, we did business for 7 or 8 years before he passed away from cancer. He probably ported a dozen pallets (50 heads/pallet) for us. Then, after Bob took over, he did at least 3 or 4 pallets before he just decided to "re-appropriate" the last pallet for himself. And since then, (of course we had to find another CNC shop,) we've done hundreds more heads. And will do thousands more in the future. We've sold over 15,000 Stealth heads, many of them CNC ported. So he's missed out on huge money. Stepping over $100 bills to steal a few pennies. When he could have been buried in work, now he'll never see another cent from us, ever. And CNC porting charges aren't cheap. There's a reason that every set of CNC ported heads sells for $1000 more than a non ported set. You never get ahead in the long run by being dishonest.

So the honest customers will pay more to make up for the unpunished thieves. Sounds like a great plan to me. Thanks.

So the honest customers will pay more to make up for the unpunished thieves. Sounds like a great plan to me. Thanks.

There are a lot of liars and cheats in the automotive parts business. When I first starting making car parts I thought it was a big happy family. I also figured Mopar guys would all be cool since we're all working to make parts for our buddies. I found out very quickly that some of the worst kinds of people are in the business of making and selling car parts, including some guys in the Mopar business. People who shake your hand, look you in the eye and then try to steal every dime you have. Hard lesson to learn. Fortunately is is only about 10% of the vendors. The other 90% are good folk.

I don't think that is what he said at all. You seem to have made a pretty rash assumption.



Assumption hell. I hate thieves and paying for things they steal. How does Walmart make up for thieves???
When you leave things go unpunished it keeps happening.

it's probably 50 heads at ~ $300each if they were bare heads.
i think they are $1k complete and with CNC work.

This is probably more accurate. I hate a thief too, but there is such a thing as a business loss, tax write off. So there is that, or they could have just decided to eat it and move on. It may have cost more in legal fees, and travel expenses alone than what it was worth.

OP,

4-years ago or today, sounds like the next order of business would be to call your State Attorney Generals office and the Michigan Attorney General's office about this. A call to one of the local MI news stations who enjoy taking on stories of businesses ripping people off would be on order also. Something could've been done about it regardless if a written contract was in-place or not. A pallet of heads didn't just leave one location to another on their own for no reason; there should be documents to prove that. If he ripped you off for Stealth heads, chances are he stiffed others for something too once the story broadens itself. I'd check with the MI AG's office about statues of limitations before giving up. Big business or small business, that's a lot of money I'd be chasing down. To hell with waiting on karma.......

FRAUD......wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain......has a statue of limitations in the State of Michigan for 6-years. You can easily work this from our office desk without ever calling an attorney for help. GO GET ALL YOUR MONEY, or at least some of it!

Yes, it was a business loss (write off.) It wasn't a big enough amount to put us out of business, but it definitely hurt. We did eat it, and move on. Nobody wants to have that kind of money stolen from them. We work hard for every dollar just like I'm sure all of you do as well. There were no "written contracts" or anything like that. Jeff (was) and we are both "handshake" kind of guys. You are only as good as your word. My opinion is that if you feel you need a written contract in order for someone to keep their promises, you shouldn't be dealing with them in the first place. We had years of successful business together that had built up mutual trust. We assumed that would continue with his brother Bob. Turns out that was an expensive mistake.

There are a lot of liars and cheats in the automotive parts business. When I first starting making car parts I thought it was a big happy family. I also figured Mopar guys would all be cool since we're all working to make parts for our buddies. I found out very quickly that some of the worst kinds of people are in the business of making and selling car parts, including some guys in the Mopar business. People who shake your hand, look you in the eye and then try to steal every dime you have. Hard lesson to learn. Fortunately is is only about 10% of the vendors. The other 90% are good folk.

Bob's Last Name Lets get it out there!

I agree with Wes. Try to get your money!

The sad part is even if you win a judgement you may never collect.

For me it would be more about the principal than the money and knowing he had been exposed for the whole world to see.

Man has a business to worry about. Can't fly across the country and kick a guy's ass. And doing it the right way will cost more than the heads. Sucks, but that's how it is.

Living in MI our attorney general is an absolute piece of trash. Unless it will benefit her you can forget about it going anywhere.

Bingo!

A few years ago we sent out a $3000 order with a Stroker kit and some other stuff. Even sent it signature required. Fedex shows it's delivered and signed for. Guy says "I never got it." Takes us to small claims court in (Indiana I think..) We have to hire a lawyer (state law). We lose in court because we can't provide actual physical proof we physically placed it into his hands (apparently the Fedex signature doesn't count.) Lawyer says, "Sorry you lost, here's my bill for $1,900.

A year and a half later, we get on online order for a replacement piston. The name sounds familiar. It was the guy who sued us. Ordering a replacement piston for the stroker kit he "never received." We called him up and told him we found it pretty interesting that he needed a replacement piston for a stroker kit that was never received. He tried to play dumb at first and then knew he was caught and hung up on us. We cancelled the order. Joys of doing business! Really 99% of people are great, but there are a few bad apples.