Anyone talked to Bob at Modern Cylinder Head?

Hello, we were wondering if anyone lives locally or has dealt with Bob at Modern Cylinder head recently. He does the CNC porting for us on our Stealth heads. We sent him a pallet of 50 heads last April. Over the last couple months, we have left numerous messages on his answering machine, sent emails, etc, asking what is happening with our pallet of heads, and there has been zero contact back to us. Just wondering if anyone knows him, or could help us with this situation in any way.

I'm thinking you need to buy a plane ticket and go have a talk with your vendor.

Wow! this is not a good thing to hear at the very least it is not pro at all!

Wow, kinda like you guys never answering my e-mails when your balancer I bought from you came apart?!

I would never do business with them. A friend sent heads there 4 years ago and nothing but excuses. Still no heads.

Lol! KARMA calling on line 1. Doh...

Well,
I hope this gets resolved, certainly not good news for anyone. I hate to see anyone who is in the business of supplying the Mopar hobby with parts and services fail.
Love the set of Modern CNC ported Stealths I own.

Keep us all updated on this...

Dad contacted them to get pricing on CNC work for a pair of small block Eddies early this Winter. They picked up.

The sad part is, I've been a big proponent of 440Source (here and on Facebook) for a long time and use their heads, water pump housing, water pump, oil pan/pickup and other parts. I run the snot out of their stuff and have put together a pretty fast/reliable street car with their parts.

I really didn't expect them to do anything about it but a response after spending thousands of $ and referring thousands more their way would have been nice!

On the other hand Bob at Modern Cylinder Head answered my email and had my heads ported and sent back to me within 2 weeks!

I think it is pretty clear which business will never get another dime of my money!

Good reply.

2 valuables lessons taught...don't ever deal with 440 Source, and don't skimp on the balancer (go with ATI)

Is that their SFI Fluidamper-style? If so, another Moparts member had one start to come apart on the dyno. He figured it out when he went to check the ignition timing and found the outer ring had slipped and started to come loose.

I have been waiting on Bob to machine my SS Hemi heads since June 2016. I sent him $2k to buy the castings, another $2k in a progress payment when he said he was pulling the seats and going to start welding them. That was late 2016, I drove up to Detroit in the summer of 2017. Bob told me he was going to start on them "next week". I guess next week is like tomorrow, it never comes. I wouldn't pay Bob anything up front. I had Jeff do two sets of heads (bracket Hemi and W2s) and had good luck with Jeff. I filed a complaint with the BBB on MCH. The Michigan State Attorney General is next for me.


I've sent dozens of e-mails and left messages on the MCH machine. No replies at all. I may have to show up with the local police at some point.

If it's any type of fluid filled damper it can't come apart like the picture posted above.

I am sorry you sent an email that was not responded to, however it was likely a technical glitch, not an affront on your personal character. Kim Burns was in charge of technical emails, and he retired last month after more than 14 years on the job here. I am not familiar with your situation, but it's likely that we either never received the email, it went into junk mail for some reason, or it was on one of those days where we get hundreds of emails and it just got lost in the mix somehow. In any case, we have a tech line that is staffed 40 hours a week with real people willing to help, you could have easily picked up the phone at any time and given us a call and someone would have been here to address your concern.

I was in a similar situation lately with a business. Had to get serious with them but I did get my refund. it is amazing how some of these places are so willing to take your money and then never expect to deliver on their promises.

So, you know about the problem now and you've still done nothing to address it other than place the blame on your email system and a guy that recently retired?!

GY3, you forgot to add that you got some of the blame too! A common tactic nowadays and it never looks good. Better to be silent,

Shame on me for thinking they would want an e-mail with pictures for proof of said failure of their product.

give them a call instead of bashing them on here.

Kinda like he is doing to one of his vendors....that he couldn't get ahold of?!

Cousin Giuseppe is in the cement business, he loves nothing more than providing help of this specific nature.
I'm sure he would be very pleased to make his acquaintance.... for the right price.


All kidding aside....this is a big pile of "not good" and I hope everyone gets it worked out to their satisfaction.

your problem has nothing to do with the original post handle it else where

I would fly out pick up your heads and find another vender,Its too bad this has had to come to this.,there are many other cylinder head companys that would be more than willing to help you out. the guys at MBE are great to do business with and have great turn around times.

Quite correct.

So here it is:

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/2633061.html#Post2633061

When did you purchase it? If the part is under warranty (or even close to it), we will be more than happy to replace it for you.

According to your guy that answered the phone today, he can't do anything about it but is supposed to have Brandon (you, I'm assuming) give me a call when he gets back to the office so I will talk to you/him about it then.

I talked to Bob about 2 weeks ago. Called, left a message, he called me back, twice actually, then I picked up.
I'm going to guess that a whole pallet of unsold cylinder heads doesn't get the priority that an individual walk-in customer gets. And probably not as lucrative.
I may still drop in after work and leave some cylinder heads but it sounds sketchy after reading other complaints on this thread.
He did indicate that he's there 7 days a week, trying to keep up with demand and I could call or schedule a visit any day.

You might want to mention in a tactful manner that he's getting some negative press as the result of this situation. Avoiding customers with whom you're waaaaay overdue on meeting commitments is a proven way to kill your business's reputation.

I totally get that, but when you take $25,000 of your customers product, and it's close to a year later, and they leave you a dozen phone messages on your answering machine over several months time, and send emails, and you return zero communication, that is bad business. If you are busy, no problem, just return one quick phone call or email and say "Sorry, I'm busy, I'm expecting to have them done in two months." Or whatever..

We have more and better ways of communicating now more than ever, BUT it's becoming a lost art. Like you said it only takes a few seconds to make a phone call. I hope things work out.

I wonder how many Bob has done so far from the pallet. I'm sure a bunch are done already. He did my W8 small block heads in 4 weeks.

I wouldn't count on it. My best guess is that he doesn't have a program written for those heads. He'd have to do a couple ports by hand and then write the program. Easier and faster to do heads that have programs for already. Had the same problem with Jeff. After countless delays and excuses I told him I would be on his doorstep if they weren't done by a certain date. I finally got them back but he didn't do the job I hired him to do. The work he did do was first rate and the price was in line.

I think that program was written long long ago and not likely the issue.

If that's the case it's even worse.

I have seen a set of the CNC 440 Source heads from MCH on a customers motors that they bought back a long time ago

I know Bob very well and I am not making any excuses for him but he is a 1 man shop and he is very overwhelmed working 14+ hrs seven days a wk. He really needs help but even if he found someone he dosnt have the time to stop and train them. I'm sure he will make things right.

Sounds like my engine guy. He is also a one man shop and works crazy hours. My guy likes it that way and doesnt want any help. Ive worked w him for 25 years and wont go anywhere else, but new customers lose their minds with the speed in which they get their stuff back. He also likes to try to make everyone happy and sometimes bites off more than he can chew. Sounds a little like whats going on at Modern. 440 source might need a higher volume shop for all those heads.

Well, okay but...if you have so much work than you are putting in 14+ hours, 7 days per week and still not gaining ground then it's time to start saying NO to new work. Or NO to current work and give some projects back. If you're too busy to even COMMUNICATE with a valued customer then you're doing it wrong.

I'm in the trucking business and we decline loads every day....from our existing customers, even! I'd rather say "No, not at this time" and keep a good customer just that. If we accepted loads that we couldn't cover and failed them, guess what would happen? Right. Good customer, now mad and gone customer.

Should be able to find someone with skills looking for some extra work in the evenings or weekends. Lots of small shops have guys like that. Usually someone with a good position somewhere that you could never afford to hire away, but willing to work a few hours for fun money.

I m a very patient man and understand a person has to wait their turn. My problem is when they promise a finish date and go well past that, then you find out they've been receiving heads, and finishing heads, and shipping heads that came in AFTER they had yours.

https://youtu.be/O-vvdfIilqo

I've used MCH before and after Jeff's death and they were both gentleman and the headwork was top quality, so i sympathise with Bob's predicament but maybe he needs to stop taking work in for the present.
Mick

Sounds like he knocks out the easy stuff and lets the more difficult jobs sit. Like I said before he has a friends heads intake rockers and money for an NHRA SS going on 4 years. You would think the 440 Source stuff would be a quick and easy job. One setup and knock the heads out.

My thoughts exactly! Jeff ported my heads back in 2006 and he had them done pretty quick and extremely nice work! Obviously a lot has changed since then.
I'd have gone and picked my stuff up in person if they kept them as long as some are saying. I don't understand why someone can't just be honest and say it's gonna be a while instead of promising a date and then going over by a ridiculous amount.

I'm kind of surprised that you (440 source) don't have his personal phone and/or cell. I'd be on a flight and at his doorstep wanting some answers, that is beyond acceptable.

As of today 440 source is still waiting on any communication back from MCH

Also why I dug up this old thread is that Gary at Larry’s Machine is having the same problem

He sent a set of Indy small block heads for Cnc , which Modern already has a program for , but now no communication

Either on answering the phone or email

So is there anyone local to Modern that wants to make some money in stopping by Modern and picking up those heads and shipping them back to CT ??

And yes Larry’s Machine will gladly pay a recovery fee for doing so , send me a PM if interested or able to help

And I am sure Brandon at 440 Source would be interested on the same deal

Tom,
PM sent.
Dean

Yes, we sent Bob at Modern Cylinder head a pallet of 50 Stealth heads to CNC port in April of 2018. That's $25,000 worth of heads. After about a year went by, our phone messages and emails got no response. We offered to just pay to ship them back if he didn't want to do the work, or we were happy to pay him for any of the work he already did, or anything like that. There was just no response. We've gotten calls from customers telling us they have bought a set of CNC ported Stealth heads directly from him, so maybe he is just selling the heads directly and keeping 100% of the money. If anyone is local in the Michigan area and would like to get our heads back (assuming they still are there) we'll throw in a free stroker kit for you.

Sounds like it might be time to file charges and notify the authorities before it’s to late. Something bad may happen to the business like the one in Pa that left people hanging with no parts.

I will try to drive out there in the morning.

I tried to pick up the heads today. Bob said I could not pick them up, so I asked if I could see the heads to prove he still had them. He said no and that he only had half of the heads and he was going to order the other half next week, which makes no sense. I hope Brandon is able to get something out of this guy. SMH

Ut oh....Only has half the heads that 440 sent him?!?!

Sounds like time to get the cops involved.

i had to do that recently on another vendor that wasn't responding to my calls or E mails
One call to the local law enforcement agency for their area fix it
Thanks be to them for their help

This is NOT good news!!!!!

Don’t ever tell me the mooFarts s RIGHT HERE don’t like drama, suspense and intrigue !
Over EIGHT THOUSAND views !!
Witches pLeAsE !

Yep. And it took two years to get to this point.

Has any of the affected parties bothered to send registered mail ?

Sounds silly in this day and age but I don’t see any mention of that.

There is always two sides to every story. I’d like to hear Bob’s.

But Tman .. doesn’t what happened to 6paker say an awful lot ?

What happened to 6pakdakota should be expected.

He doesn’t own any materials at MCH.

I’m not picking any sides or looking for a fight.
Look at it as a juror - plaintiff vs. defendant.

Seems pretty peculiar that a business would “keep” $25K of inventory from a customer and not reply to any calls or emails from that customer.

You are always going to get a dissatisfied customer now and then - he’ll, look at Indy.

Bad news travels fast. How many guys have dealt with MCH with no issues - a bunch.

Being a MCH customer since 2002, I have never, ever experienced a problem. Neither Jeff or Bob ever asked me for money up front and always got me my heads back in less than a month.
I'm hoping that this isn't a start of something bad like Shady Dell.
I do know Bob is way over his head, busy.
He needs help but I don't think he wants to hire anyone for some reason.

If that's the case wouldn't it be better to turn away work? Why risk your business?

You would think so. What has worked for me lately for most shops I s to bring a written document in outlining what has been dropped off, what work is to be performed with the estimated cost of parts and labor. Take pictures of the parts in front of the person accepting the parts. And clearly state the value of the the parts being dropped off. Lastly, what will happen if the deadline is passed, such as, “I’ll be back for my parts whether the job is done or not”. All this means nothing if the shop disappears in the middle of the night but that rarely happens without some flags.

Any updates on this?

Yes, it's over four years later. A few local people were nice enough to "check in" with Bob at Modern Cylinder Head on our behalf to try to figure out what was going on. Long story short, he did CNC port the 50 heads we sent him. However, instead of sending them back to us, he then sold all the heads directly to his retail customers and kept 100% of the money.

Is this heading to court???

Surprised that someone calling for parts wouldn't have mentioned that along the way.

Not to pile on but after my experience with Jeff, Modern Cylinder head should hope to live so long before I would ever darken their door again

I have had a couple of sets of heads done by them and was happy with the service. But that was back in the good old days, 6 to 10 years ago.

It should be.

That's how we found out. People would call us and say "I just bought a pair of your CNC ported Stealth heads from Bob at Modern, I need to order head bolts, or gaskets (etc.) for them" Especially during times when we were out of stock of our heads. So it didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what was going on.

So you didn’t answer my question. Is it heading to court

Wow. I dealt w/ Jeff once when I had him port my heads in 2006. He did a great job on the heads, but man was he a jerk to talk to. Sounds like his brother is worse. I haven't dealt w/ them since 2006...no reason to when there are much nicer and honest people out there doing the same stuff.

No, not going to waste our time flying to Michigan to chase after a thief. Karma can do what it's going to do. When Jeff ran Modern, we did business for 7 or 8 years before he passed away from cancer. He probably ported a dozen pallets (50 heads/pallet) for us. Then, after Bob took over, he did at least 3 or 4 pallets before he just decided to "re-appropriate" the last pallet for himself. And since then, (of course we had to find another CNC shop,) we've done hundreds more heads. And will do thousands more in the future. We've sold over 15,000 Stealth heads, many of them CNC ported. So he's missed out on huge money. Stepping over $100 bills to steal a few pennies. When he could have been buried in work, now he'll never see another cent from us, ever. And CNC porting charges aren't cheap. There's a reason that every set of CNC ported heads sells for $1000 more than a non ported set. You never get ahead in the long run by being dishonest.

So the honest customers will pay more to make up for the unpunished thieves. Sounds like a great plan to me. Thanks.

Jeff was always very good to me. Took time to answer questions. He did the heads on my car. Though I purchased them used from his customer that never mattered to him. Jeff was a good guy.
Doug

How did you reach that conclusion? Actually, this whole fiasco had the end result that customers are paying less. Our new CNC supplier charges less than Bob at Modern, which allowed us to not raise the price on our CNC heads. They have been priced at $999.95 each since 2007. That's right, the price has NEVER ONCE been increased on them, EVER. Even in the last year, where we've seen double digit increases due to inflation. Not a single price increase in 15 years. Not very many products can claim that.

I don't think that is what he said at all. You seem to have made a pretty rash assumption.

I don't think that is what he said at all. You seem to have made a pretty rash assumption.



Assumption hell. I hate thieves and paying for things they steal. How does Walmart make up for thieves???
When you leave things go unpunished it keeps happening.

50 heads at $1000 each, I'd already have a lawyer working on it. If nothing else but for the principal of the whole deal. I'd also contact the BBB, not that it would do any good, but at least it would be there if people checked them out.

it's probably 50 heads at ~ $300each if they were bare heads.
i think they are $1k complete and with CNC work.

Bob must have attended the Bill Coon school of how to screw people over on Cylinder heads.

There are a lot of liars and cheats in the automotive parts business. When I first starting making car parts I thought it was a big happy family. I also figured Mopar guys would all be cool since we're all working to make parts for our buddies. I found out very quickly that some of the worst kinds of people are in the business of making and selling car parts, including some guys in the Mopar business. People who shake your hand, look you in the eye and then try to steal every dime you have. Hard lesson to learn. Fortunately is is only about 10% of the vendors. The other 90% are good folk.

Same way with building things for Mopar customers.

I've built a LOT of stock style 727's over the years and only had a couple get one over on me. Ironically it was people I thought were good friends and had known for years. "I just need it for the show this weekend and will pay you for it next week!"

Well first of all 440 Source isn't Walmart that probably has millions stolen from them every year, this was a one time deal.



This is probably more accurate. I hate a thief too, but there is such a thing as a business loss, tax write off. So there is that, or they could have just decided to eat it and move on. It may have cost more in legal fees, and travel expenses alone than what it was worth.

Yes, it was a business loss (write off.) It wasn't a big enough amount to put us out of business, but it definitely hurt. We did eat it, and move on. Nobody wants to have that kind of money stolen from them. We work hard for every dollar just like I'm sure all of you do as well. There were no "written contracts" or anything like that. Jeff (was) and we are both "handshake" kind of guys. You are only as good as your word. My opinion is that if you feel you need a written contract in order for someone to keep their promises, you shouldn't be dealing with them in the first place. We had years of successful business together that had built up mutual trust. We assumed that would continue with his brother Bob. Turns out that was an expensive mistake.

Well thanks at least for updating the post and telling us so some of us hopefully won’t be the next pawn. I know I won’t be.

OP,

4-years ago or today, sounds like the next order of business would be to call your State Attorney Generals office and the Michigan Attorney General's office about this. A call to one of the local MI news stations who enjoy taking on stories of businesses ripping people off would be on order also. Something could've been done about it regardless if a written contract was in-place or not. A pallet of heads didn't just leave one location to another on their own for no reason; there should be documents to prove that. If he ripped you off for Stealth heads, chances are he stiffed others for something too once the story broadens itself. I'd check with the MI AG's office about statues of limitations before giving up. Big business or small business, that's a lot of money I'd be chasing down. To hell with waiting on karma.......

FRAUD......wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain......has a statue of limitations in the State of Michigan for 6-years. You can easily work this from our office desk without ever calling an attorney for help. GO GET ALL YOUR MONEY, or at least some of it!

I agree with Wes. Try to get your money!

Living in MI our attorney general is an absolute piece of trash. Unless it will benefit her you can forget about it going anywhere.

Sorry, but it’s just pathetic when people blow this off by minimizing the price of parts, writing it off as a business loss etc. Just more
of what’s wrong in this world.

Sorry this happened 440Source. $50 or $50 million a thief is a thief. I get your rationale but at the same I do wish you’d go after them or
even post a heads up on your site.

Probably more along the lines of embezzlement.

MCH/Bob was entrusted with an item they didn’t have ownership interest in and sold it for their benefit.

Embezzlement involves stealing by a defendant who has legal access to another's money or property but not legal ownership of it. This differs from theft where the defendant has neither legal access nor ownership over the stolen property (like stealing someone's car out of their garage).

Same 6 year statute of limitations as the fraud comment above. I’d be making a call…

That was my second thought. If there was documentation or if they were just sent. As screwed up as the legal system is now, could have ended up his word against yours.

Would have been a tough pill to swallow. I've been burglarized, knew who did it and couldn't get anything done. Leaves a bad taste in your mouth and a little less trustful. I really hate thieves.

Well when it's your turn you can proceed as you see fit, no one has a right to tell anyone else how they should handle their situation.

I talked to a guy who is friends with the Lucas tire guy. He told me quite the sordid tale about Firestone redlines and how Lucas acquired the molds and how Coker ended up selling them. It is pretty crazy somebody would marry a tire heiress and walk away with a tire mold, then somebody else copies the tire and it goes to court.

I have been through similar situations. It is a lot of time and trouble to pursue a thief especially when the chances of any real satisfaction is near zero. The only real reason to give the thief any more of your attention is so that others may become aware of it and not get ripped off themselves. If the States Attorney, BBB, local business organizations and every Mopar group and board you can think of were made aware of this, maybe a future victim would get the message. You could get some satisfaction out of that while doing a real service to your own customer base.

And be sure to post the sordid story on your own web site.

Legal actions can take a lot of time, money and be emotionally draining.

I can fully understand why someone would just let Karma deal with the issue.

Even before this I had decided years ago that Modern Cylinder was not a place I would want to do business.

Bob's Last Name Lets get it out there!

Modern Cylinder Head Inc. (MCH) founded in 1996 by Jeff Kobylski.
On July 21, 2013 Jeff lost his battle with Adenoid Cystic Carcinoma.

Bob, Jeff's brother, is now running Modern Cylinder Head.

I had problems with Jeff. Long story short I asked Jeff to port my 426-SR heads. He said send -em, said 2 week turn around time. Several months later I learned they were collecting dust there while he was doing heads that came in long after mine had I threatened to show up on his doorstep and talk to him hand to hand and he finally worked on my heads. The work that was done was first rate but he just did a bowl blend and not a porting job.
Life is to short to put up with crap like that. I'd been fine if he'd turned down the job.

The sad part is even if you win a judgement you may never collect.

Jeff ported several heads for me. He was never very pleasant to talk to, and he wasn't very transparent about the porting work. He wouldn't tell me what he was going to do and sometimes when the heads arrived I wasn't happy with what he had done. I had to have his stuff repaired a few times since he didn't do everything correctly. So I stopped doing business with MCH more than 10 years ago. I never had any transactions with Bob so sounds like I dodged a bullet there.

If only it were that easy.

Lawyers cost money. The legal system is a joke. Cops can't do dick. I see the guy who broke into my building and stole thousands of dollars worth of stuff, and got away with it, at the track occasionally.

Pisses me off, I know he did it, he knows I know he did it. He just avoids me. I could do bad things to him with zero remorse. Anything I do will get me in more trouble than him.

Years ago, you could round up some buddies and go take care of business. No more. Now you can kick an old person onto the subway tracks and walk. And the family of that old person would go to jail if they took care of the guy.

These days, you just have to protect you stuff as best you can. And hope you catch them in the act.

Man has a business to worry about. Can't fly across the country and kick a guy's ass. And doing it the right way will cost more than the heads. Sucks, but that's how it is.

For me it would be more about the principal than the money and knowing he had been exposed for the whole world to see.

People go to jail over principle every day.

Sad part is, A lot of people in the community, maybe even people reading this, will buy stolen stuff from a crook, and not give a damn if they get a deal. Look at what happened at a little head shop in PA.

"handshake" kind of guys and "You are only as good as your word"..................[440source.com]


i live and breath by this, and if i ever deviate from this in my lifetime, i deserve to be : "tie 'im to the car, and drag 'im !" - ["Ants" - American Graffiti]

Bingo!

A few years ago we sent out a $3000 order with a Stroker kit and some other stuff. Even sent it signature required. Fedex shows it's delivered and signed for. Guy says "I never got it." Takes us to small claims court in (Indiana I think..) We have to hire a lawyer (state law). We lose in court because we can't provide actual physical proof we physically placed it into his hands (apparently the Fedex signature doesn't count.) Lawyer says, "Sorry you lost, here's my bill for $1,900.

A year and a half later, we get on online order for a replacement piston. The name sounds familiar. It was the guy who sued us. Ordering a replacement piston for the stroker kit he "never received." We called him up and told him we found it pretty interesting that he needed a replacement piston for a stroker kit that was never received. He tried to play dumb at first and then knew he was caught and hung up on us. We cancelled the order. Joys of doing business! Really 99% of people are great, but there are a few bad apples.

I keep a signed copy of federal court judgement in my lower desk drawer for $78 Million against an individual and assorted companies - just to remind myself its a long way to the Bank from the court house !!!

several years ago Autozone sold me about $450 worth of shop materials on their website, then days later sent an email saying "it was no longer available at that price".

The charges were refunded, but instead of keeping quiet I complained I still wanted the material and the online sale constituted a written contract.

I filed a complaint with MI attorney general and eventually was given about $450 worth of gift cards, and as a partial retaliation they cancelled all my lifetime warranties mostly for parts I no longer own the cars for
(And for those that I do own, I can always buy more alternators and starters somewhere else-literally ANYWHERE else).

Maybe party affiliation makes some mad or whatever, but I am here as a witness, the few minutes it took to fill out the online form
was well worth the time spent.

I would suggest the same to 440 source.

It's not going to hurt to try. Below is a link to the form.

https://secure.ag.state.mi.us/complaints/consumer.aspx

I would send an email, with his contact info and what he did, to every business in America that sells anything Mopar related. Have it put on your FB and the rest of it too so when they check up on you, they'll see it.

Sorry for the crap you went through Brandon. I used one of your rotating kits and other pieces on my 512 build. Turned out great. Both my father and I built strokers (SB and BB) with untouched Eddie heads. Was looking at MCH to do the port work since they're right up the road from us. Screw it, MCH won't be getting our business.