Fast cars with a third pedal...
#2183773
10/27/16 02:13 PM
10/27/16 02:13 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,793 Mt.Gilead, Ohio
OhioMopar
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Mt.Gilead, Ohio
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Who's got them? What's your combo? What does it run? What have you upgraded? What have you broken? Thanks!
1969 Dart GTS 340 1969 Coronet R/T X9 N-96 1999 Dodge Dakota R/T RC 2015 Dodge Dart GT 2019 Ram 2500 Big Horn
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Re: Fast cars with a third pedal...
[Re: OhioMopar]
#2183810
10/27/16 03:09 PM
10/27/16 03:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,092 MN
JERICOGTX
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,092
MN
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What is your definition of fast?
69 GTX
68 Road Runner
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Re: Fast cars with a third pedal...
[Re: OhioMopar]
#2183812
10/27/16 03:11 PM
10/27/16 03:11 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,793 Mt.Gilead, Ohio
OhioMopar
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Mt.Gilead, Ohio
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We'll say 11.80 and faster?? Something that will keep up with a Scatpack on drag radials, for instance? lol
Last edited by OhioMopar; 10/27/16 03:12 PM.
1969 Dart GTS 340 1969 Coronet R/T X9 N-96 1999 Dodge Dakota R/T RC 2015 Dodge Dart GT 2019 Ram 2500 Big Horn
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Re: Fast cars with a third pedal...
[Re: OhioMopar]
#2183814
10/27/16 03:17 PM
10/27/16 03:17 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,016 South Park, Pa.
68LAR
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,016
South Park, Pa.
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I'll bite..... 440 stroker (493ci) 1050AN Quickfuel 4150 carb Solid flat tappet cam Stock NP A833 18 spline Center force clutch Dana 60/ 4.56 gears Total weight with me and 1/2 tank of 93 octane 3926# Best time is in my sig. Usually runs 11.1's at 123+ thru the mufflers. Before switching to a Dana, I've broken everything imaginable in an 8 3/4. Twisted housings, U joints, axles, spun purches. Never broke a tranny outright though, but did have collateral damage on one at one time.
Last edited by 68LAR; 10/27/16 03:22 PM.
4 speed street legal. Best time 10.99 @ 124 mph on 93 octane pump gas @ 3926# total weight
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Re: Fast cars with a third pedal...
[Re: 68LAR]
#2183818
10/27/16 03:23 PM
10/27/16 03:23 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,793 Mt.Gilead, Ohio
OhioMopar
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,793
Mt.Gilead, Ohio
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I'll bite..... 440 stroker (493ci) 1050AN Quickfuel 4150 carb Solid flat tappet cam Stock NP A833 18 spline Center force clutch Dana 60/ 4.56 gears Total weight with me and 1/2 tank of 93 octane 3926# Best time is in my sig. Usually runs 11.1's at 123+ thru the mufflers. That's cool. Thanks! Sometimes I think I should have gone with a 4.10 over a 3.54 in my Dana.
1969 Dart GTS 340 1969 Coronet R/T X9 N-96 1999 Dodge Dakota R/T RC 2015 Dodge Dart GT 2019 Ram 2500 Big Horn
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Re: Fast cars with a third pedal...
[Re: OhioMopar]
#2183825
10/27/16 03:29 PM
10/27/16 03:29 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,016 South Park, Pa.
68LAR
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,016
South Park, Pa.
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3.54' are nice street gears. If you go to the track on occasion, then something in the 4.10 or steeper range would be in line, but again, it would depend on the rest of the combo. Example: if your engine rpm tops out at 5K, then going to a steep gear would make no sense at all. It always come down to combo......
4 speed street legal. Best time 10.99 @ 124 mph on 93 octane pump gas @ 3926# total weight
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Re: Fast cars with a third pedal...
[Re: 68LAR]
#2183830
10/27/16 03:37 PM
10/27/16 03:37 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,793 Mt.Gilead, Ohio
OhioMopar
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,793
Mt.Gilead, Ohio
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3.54' are nice street gears. If you go to the track on occasion, then something in the 4.10 or steeper range would be in line, but again, it would depend on the rest of the combo. Example: if your engine rpm tops out at 5K, then going to a steep gear would make no sense at all. It always come down to combo...... Agreed. Still deciding on a combo. Sold the engine out of my Bee. Now trying to decide what to replace it with.
1969 Dart GTS 340 1969 Coronet R/T X9 N-96 1999 Dodge Dakota R/T RC 2015 Dodge Dart GT 2019 Ram 2500 Big Horn
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Re: Fast cars with a third pedal...
[Re: OhioMopar]
#2183882
10/27/16 04:49 PM
10/27/16 04:49 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302 Nebraska
72Swinger
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
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72 Dart, 420" 6.1 Hemi, Viper T56, 3.91s, 335 street tires, 3700lbs with me in it,pump 91, 2300ft above the sea, been to track once and best pass out of 4 was 12.09@121.75 with a lousy 2.0 60ft. Track sucked,runs better on the street.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: Fast cars with a third pedal...
[Re: 72Swinger]
#2183905
10/27/16 05:23 PM
10/27/16 05:23 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,793 Mt.Gilead, Ohio
OhioMopar
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OP
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Mt.Gilead, Ohio
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72 Dart, 420" 6.1 Hemi, Viper T56, 3.91s, 335 street tires, 3700lbs with me in it,pump 91, 2300ft above the sea, been to track once and best pass out of 4 was 12.09@121.75 with a lousy 2.0 60ft. Track sucked,runs better on the street. That's cool! I haven't ruled out a Gen III. But I already have a 440 block. A cost comparison is in order, I suppose.
1969 Dart GTS 340 1969 Coronet R/T X9 N-96 1999 Dodge Dakota R/T RC 2015 Dodge Dart GT 2019 Ram 2500 Big Horn
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Re: Fast cars with a third pedal...
[Re: OhioMopar]
#2184196
10/27/16 10:55 PM
10/27/16 10:55 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,306 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,306
Fulton County, PA
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Check out Tim Riggleman's small block Daytona. In the 7's. Runs with the Pro Stick group.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: Fast cars with a third pedal...
[Re: CMcAllister]
#2184372
10/28/16 09:27 AM
10/28/16 09:27 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,793 Mt.Gilead, Ohio
OhioMopar
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OP
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Check out Tim Riggleman's small block Daytona. In the 7's. Runs with the Pro Stick group. Nice.
1969 Dart GTS 340 1969 Coronet R/T X9 N-96 1999 Dodge Dakota R/T RC 2015 Dodge Dart GT 2019 Ram 2500 Big Horn
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Re: Fast cars with a third pedal...
[Re: 72Swinger]
#2184603
10/28/16 03:35 PM
10/28/16 03:35 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978 Hilltown Pa
1967dartgt
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master
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Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
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72 Dart, 420" 6.1 Hemi, Viper T56, 3.91s, 335 street tires, 3700lbs with me in it,pump 91, 2300ft above the sea, been to track once and best pass out of 4 was 12.09@121.75 with a lousy 2.0 60ft. Track sucked,runs better on the street. How did you get it so heavy? Sounds like a killer street car.
Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads STR Chassis fabraction
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Re: Fast cars with a third pedal...
[Re: CMcAllister]
#2184608
10/28/16 03:38 PM
10/28/16 03:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,537 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,537
Las Vegas
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Check out Tim Riggleman's small block Daytona. In the 7's. Runs with the Pro Stick group. Is this a blue Daytona?
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Fast cars with a third pedal...
[Re: OhioMopar]
#2184689
10/28/16 05:08 PM
10/28/16 05:08 PM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 104 Washington
weedburner
member
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member
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 104
Washington
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I have quite a few Coyote Stock customers. They run at 3000lbs, use a 5.0L 435hp rated factory sealed crate engine, must use a single 10 or 10.5" disc and a diaphragm style pressure plate, spec transmissions/ratios, and must use the clutch to shift. Here's some recent slip data from a run...
1.296 3.868 6.059 110.11 7.968 9.610 134.94
When everybody's making the same power, it can be especially sweet when you get the clutch tune just right. When the clutch hits too hard, it either pulls the engine down too far or knocks the tires loose. Hitting too soft is also counter productive, but there's a sweet spot in between where things work amazingly well. Basically you want to match the clutch's clamp to the engine's power, as this can effectively raise the engine's average rpm, which in turn allows the engine to produce more power in a tighter time frame.
Here's a simplified example to help explain why you want to keep average rpm as high as practically possible-
Lets say a car has the power to gain speed at an average rate of 6000 rpm per second in 1st gear. Let's also have the clutch slip until .5 sec into the run with the tires remaining dead hooked. If the car launches at 6k and the tires are stuck, the clutch will pull engine rpm down to 3k by the .5 sec mark. Then from .5 to 1.0 seconds rpm will climb from 3k back up to 6k, as the engine regains the lost rpm. What all this boils down to is that during the initial 1 second after launch, the engine's average rpm was 4500 rpm, which means the engine made 75 revolutions over that 1st second of the run. ...Now suppose that same car launches at 6k, but now the clutch slips just enough that the engine does not lose any rpm over that same 1 sec period. Now the engine's average rpm was 6000, which means it made 100 revolutions during that initial 1 second period. ...Here's the thing- both left from the same rpm, but the launch that didn't lose any rpm actually packs 33% more revolutions of WOT power production into the same 1 second time period. If the clutch also slips just right after the shifts, you can pick up some power production there as well.
When you understand what you need to do, you can likely make things come together on your own. Here's a few things you can do to an overly aggressive clutch to tweak it closer to that sweet spot... 1- less aggressive friction material 2- smaller diameter disc 3- reduce effective diameter of the disc (trim away some of the friction material's face without reducing overall diameter) 4- reduce clamp pressure either by swapping to a weaker PP/spring, different fulcrum or shimming your existing PP away from the flywheel 5- temporarily hold back some clamp pressure with your foot, basically ride the clutch out for 5-10 feet. Adding an adjustable spring loaded pedal stop can make it easier to consistently find the sweet spot in the pedal travel 6- temporarily hold back some clamp pressure with a timed mechanical device (this is what my device does)
Just putting this out there to show you don't necessarily have to have an "adjustable" clutch to be quick.
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Re: Fast cars with a third pedal...
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2184759
10/28/16 06:29 PM
10/28/16 06:29 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,793 Mt.Gilead, Ohio
OhioMopar
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Joined: Aug 2003
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Mt.Gilead, Ohio
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Adding a 3.09 1st just makes the gear spread terrible. I will drive it more than race it If you're putting a lot of power to the overdrive 833, I'm thinking you're going to be disappointed with its longevity.
1969 Dart GTS 340 1969 Coronet R/T X9 N-96 1999 Dodge Dakota R/T RC 2015 Dodge Dart GT 2019 Ram 2500 Big Horn
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Re: Fast cars with a third pedal...
[Re: OhioMopar]
#2184769
10/28/16 06:40 PM
10/28/16 06:40 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,016 South Park, Pa.
68LAR
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,016
South Park, Pa.
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Adding a 3.09 1st just makes the gear spread terrible. I will drive it more than race it If you're putting a lot of power to the overdrive 833, I'm thinking you're going to be disappointed with its longevity. Agreed. Went this route several years back. Actually bent the input shafts twice. Annnnd, I didn't go any faster. Actually went slower. Went back to an 18 spline with 2.65 low and everything is good again. Also, I don't know if they will chime in, but there are 2 other cars that are pretty impressive. My Son's '69 Dart, street car(Lar414), with a 414 stroker has gone deep into the 11's. A good friend of mine, OLDIRON has a '67 Barracuda that has gone low 9.90's. Both cars are very impressive, Just sayin'..........
4 speed street legal. Best time 10.99 @ 124 mph on 93 octane pump gas @ 3926# total weight
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Re: Fast cars with a third pedal...
[Re: 1967dartgt]
#2184798
10/28/16 07:30 PM
10/28/16 07:30 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302 Nebraska
72Swinger
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
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72 Dart, 420" 6.1 Hemi, Viper T56, 3.91s, 335 street tires, 3700lbs with me in it,pump 91, 2300ft above the sea, been to track once and best pass out of 4 was 12.09@121.75 with a lousy 2.0 60ft. Track sucked,runs better on the street. How did you get it so heavy? Sounds like a killer street car. lots of ways lol, 1.75x.120 wall full road race cage, 14" front steel SRT rotors that weigh 30lbs each,full Interior, front and rear swaybars etc. The cage alone is 200 lbs. Used to weigh 3240 with an iron head BB.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: Fast cars with a third pedal...
[Re: 68LAR]
#2185071
10/29/16 01:33 AM
10/29/16 01:33 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md
383man
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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Adding a 3.09 1st just makes the gear spread terrible. I will drive it more than race it If you're putting a lot of power to the overdrive 833, I'm thinking you're going to be disappointed with its longevity. Agreed. Went this route several years back. Actually bent the input shafts twice. Annnnd, I didn't go any faster. Actually went slower. Went back to an 18 spline with 2.65 low and everything is good again. Also, I don't know if they will chime in, but there are 2 other cars that are pretty impressive. My Son's '69 Dart, street car(Lar414), with a 414 stroker has gone deep into the 11's. A good friend of mine, OLDIRON has a '67 Barracuda that has gone low 9.90's. Both cars are very impressive, Just sayin'.......... Did not know "Lar414" was your son. His Dart is really awesome. You and your son have two really cool Mopars that look great and run very good. I belive his Dart was in Mopar Muscle some years back. And I think he put a crossram on it also if I am not right. Like I say you guys have two awesome Mopars that anyone would love to own. Ron
Last edited by 383man; 10/29/16 01:37 AM.
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Re: Fast cars with a third pedal...
[Re: 72Swinger]
#2185079
10/29/16 01:44 AM
10/29/16 01:44 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978 Hilltown Pa
1967dartgt
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
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72 Dart, 420" 6.1 Hemi, Viper T56, 3.91s, 335 street tires, 3700lbs with me in it,pump 91, 2300ft above the sea, been to track once and best pass out of 4 was 12.09@121.75 with a lousy 2.0 60ft. Track sucked,runs better on the street. How did you get it so heavy? Sounds like a killer street car. lots of ways lol, 1.75x.120 wall full road race cage, 14" front steel SRT rotors that weigh 30lbs each,full Interior, front and rear swaybars etc. The cage alone is 200 lbs. Used to weigh 3240 with an iron head BB. Wow, seems really cool. Do you think it handles better with the hemi.
Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads STR Chassis fabraction
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Re: Fast cars with a third pedal...
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#2185101
10/29/16 02:40 AM
10/29/16 02:40 AM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,306 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,306
Fulton County, PA
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Check out Tim Riggleman's small block Daytona. In the 7's. Runs with the Pro Stick group. Is this a blue Daytona? Yes.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: Fast cars with a third pedal...
[Re: 1967dartgt]
#2185108
10/29/16 03:12 AM
10/29/16 03:12 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302 Nebraska
72Swinger
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
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72 Dart, 420" 6.1 Hemi, Viper T56, 3.91s, 335 street tires, 3700lbs with me in it,pump 91, 2300ft above the sea, been to track once and best pass out of 4 was 12.09@121.75 with a lousy 2.0 60ft. Track sucked,runs better on the street. How did you get it so heavy? Sounds like a killer street car. lots of ways lol, 1.75x.120 wall full road race cage, 14" front steel SRT rotors that weigh 30lbs each,full Interior, front and rear swaybars etc. The cage alone is 200 lbs. Used to weigh 3240 with an iron head BB. Wow, seems really cool. Do you think it handles better with the hemi. Definitely, car is balanced but needs more rear spring.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: Fast cars with a third pedal...
[Re: sshemi]
#2186030
10/30/16 06:41 PM
10/30/16 06:41 PM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,128 sweden
sshemi
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,128
sweden
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Re: Fast cars with a third pedal...
[Re: 383man]
#2187326
11/01/16 12:56 PM
11/01/16 12:56 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,793 Mt.Gilead, Ohio
OhioMopar
OP
master
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OP
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,793
Mt.Gilead, Ohio
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Adding a 3.09 1st just makes the gear spread terrible. I will drive it more than race it If you're putting a lot of power to the overdrive 833, I'm thinking you're going to be disappointed with its longevity. Agreed. Went this route several years back. Actually bent the input shafts twice. Annnnd, I didn't go any faster. Actually went slower. Went back to an 18 spline with 2.65 low and everything is good again. Also, I don't know if they will chime in, but there are 2 other cars that are pretty impressive. My Son's '69 Dart, street car(Lar414), with a 414 stroker has gone deep into the 11's. A good friend of mine, OLDIRON has a '67 Barracuda that has gone low 9.90's. Both cars are very impressive, Just sayin'.......... Did not know "Lar414" was your son. His Dart is really awesome. You and your son have two really cool Mopars that look great and run very good. I belive his Dart was in Mopar Muscle some years back. And I think he put a crossram on it also if I am not right. Like I say you guys have two awesome Mopars that anyone would love to own. Ron
1969 Dart GTS 340 1969 Coronet R/T X9 N-96 1999 Dodge Dakota R/T RC 2015 Dodge Dart GT 2019 Ram 2500 Big Horn
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Re: Fast cars with a third pedal...
[Re: taxidermy man]
#2187672
11/01/16 09:39 PM
11/01/16 09:39 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,257 gulfport, ms, west mi
rowin4
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,257
gulfport, ms, west mi
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I have in my 67 Barracuda a home built pump gas 505 stroker, Edelbrock heads, 950 HP Holley, American Powertrain Kevlar 11" disc&pressure plate, dana 60 with 4.56 gears. runs 10.30 at 130 What have I broke? The 833, the dana gears, the u-joints and a lot of oil pans
it's ok to butt heads, just don't do it with a butthead
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Re: Fast cars with a third pedal...
[Re: rowin4]
#2187916
11/02/16 11:02 AM
11/02/16 11:02 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,793 Mt.Gilead, Ohio
OhioMopar
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,793
Mt.Gilead, Ohio
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I have in my 67 Barracuda a home built pump gas 505 stroker, Edelbrock heads, 950 HP Holley, American Powertrain Kevlar 11" disc&pressure plate, dana 60 with 4.56 gears. runs 10.30 at 130 What have I broke? The 833, the dana gears, the u-joints and a lot of oil pans Nice. As long as the oil pan isn't breaking from parts flying through it, that's ok, right?
1969 Dart GTS 340 1969 Coronet R/T X9 N-96 1999 Dodge Dakota R/T RC 2015 Dodge Dart GT 2019 Ram 2500 Big Horn
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Re: Fast cars with a third pedal...
[Re: OhioMopar]
#2187947
11/02/16 12:05 PM
11/02/16 12:05 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,257 gulfport, ms, west mi
rowin4
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,257
gulfport, ms, west mi
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I have in my 67 Barracuda a home built pump gas 505 stroker, Edelbrock heads, 950 HP Holley, American Powertrain Kevlar 11" disc&pressure plate, dana 60 with 4.56 gears. runs 10.30 at 130 What have I broke? The 833, the dana gears, the u-joints and a lot of oil pans Nice. As long as the oil pan isn't breaking from parts flying through it, that's ok, right? Never , knock on wood put anything through the pan or hurt any bottom end rotating parts , 6800 RPM's at every shift . Pan damage is from wheel stands.
it's ok to butt heads, just don't do it with a butthead
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Re: Fast cars with a third pedal...
[Re: OhioMopar]
#2189986
11/05/16 12:57 PM
11/05/16 12:57 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,509 TN
SCATPACK 1
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,509
TN
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[/quote] That's cool. Thanks! Sometimes I think I should have gone with a 4.10 over a 3.54 in my Dana. [/quote]
I have a 4.10 Dana in my 70 Challenger RT. It is a bit busy on the street though. I am currently using a OD version of the 833 and it is a good offset of the 4.10 on a road trip. But the gear spread and ratio drops is too excessive. But I will be switching back to my Hemi 4 speed once I am thru with the rebuild to install new bearings and new syncro's. The engine is 440 with MW heads, Indy intake and 1050 2 circuit Dominator. Cam is 258/262@50 w 580/562 lift. The Dana and the leaf springs are from a 69 GTX 4 speed car. Have not had it to the track since I got it back on the road as I am afraid of breaking the OD 4 speed trans. Jerry
Old Geezer Racing
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Re: Fast cars with a third pedal...
[Re: SCATPACK 1]
#2190535
11/06/16 07:44 AM
11/06/16 07:44 AM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,128 sweden
sshemi
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,128
sweden
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I really like this Dart. Looks clean and this is an awesome shot Thank you. I pretty much built it all by myself exept the engine. Theres an in car vid on youtube from a tnt day. Search for swede4speed kjula.
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Re: Fast cars with a third pedal...
[Re: SCATPACK 1]
#2190787
11/06/16 04:35 PM
11/06/16 04:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md
383man
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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I really like this Dart. Looks clean and this is an awesome shot You said it as thats one nice Dart. Ron
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Re: Fast cars with a third pedal...
[Re: OhioMopar]
#2194842
11/11/16 04:46 PM
11/11/16 04:46 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,016 South Park, Pa.
68LAR
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,016
South Park, Pa.
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Who's got them? What's your combo? What does it run? What have you upgraded? What have you broken? Thanks! There's got to be more stick cars out there that fit this profile.. Where you at???????
4 speed street legal. Best time 10.99 @ 124 mph on 93 octane pump gas @ 3926# total weight
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Re: Fast cars with a third pedal...
[Re: JERICOGTX]
#2194940
11/11/16 09:16 PM
11/11/16 09:16 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 690 New Hampshire, USA
oldiron
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 690
New Hampshire, USA
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The fellow on the left was fast. Almost like an explosion when he passed by. Skeered me! But then again, fast is relative
66 Belvedere Vert, 4 Speed/Jerico, slowly, very slowly, getting faster - NA LD Wedge New New Best: 10.56 @129 68 B'cuda 4 gear Jerico - Another New Best of 9.86 & Trying to slow up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4jDLKwd9Gs
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Re: Fast cars with a third pedal...
[Re: OhioMopar]
#2195095
11/12/16 11:02 AM
11/12/16 11:02 AM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,132 Mo.
racerx
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,132
Mo.
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The fellow on the left was fast. Almost like an explosion when he passed by. Skeered me! But then again, fast is relative drive He is fast what kind of car was this?
Last edited by racerx; 11/12/16 11:02 AM.
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Re: Fast cars with a third pedal...
[Re: racerx]
#2195122
11/12/16 12:23 PM
11/12/16 12:23 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 690 New Hampshire, USA
oldiron
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 690
New Hampshire, USA
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it was a fairly serious mustang. I think it had a gforce trans. a couple of fast mopars - mid high 8s both small blocks
66 Belvedere Vert, 4 Speed/Jerico, slowly, very slowly, getting faster - NA LD Wedge New New Best: 10.56 @129 68 B'cuda 4 gear Jerico - Another New Best of 9.86 & Trying to slow up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4jDLKwd9Gs
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Re: Fast cars with a third pedal...
[Re: skep419]
#3091050
11/02/22 12:43 AM
11/02/22 12:43 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,523 Minnesota
Hemi_Joel
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,523
Minnesota
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Are we supposed to respond to this Lazarus thread?
Ok, I'll do it. 31 Plymouth coupe, street/strip, completed 2 Drag Weeks, mostly stock except for a stroked early Hemi, 8 Holley 94 carbs, t56 magnum, McLeod RTX clutch, Clutch Tamer, quicktime bell, 4.57 Moser 9" , 4 link, coil overs, 8.50 cage, 2750# at the starting line. Haven't broke anything, gone 10.teens at 137. Still needs a lot of sorting, I expect 9's from it.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img]31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum RS23J71 RS27J77 RP23J71 RO23J71 WM21J8A I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do. "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"
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Re: Fast cars with a third pedal...
[Re: Hemi_Joel]
#3091053
11/02/22 01:25 AM
11/02/22 01:25 AM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,266 New York, USA
Chargerfan68
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,266
New York, USA
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I guess i fit into this category:
68 charger R/T 505 rb 10.6:1 1050 dom Jerico dr4 4.30 rear gear Leaf spring/caltrac Pretty porky….3900
Runs pretty consistent: 10.75 @ 127
1.50 60Ft. , 10.75@ 127MPH Hauling 3900 LBS.
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Re: Fast cars with a third pedal...
[Re: Chargerfan68]
#3091069
11/02/22 07:12 AM
11/02/22 07:12 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,092 MN
JERICOGTX
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,092
MN
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68 Road Runner.
Old 499ci combo with a Jerico DR4, ran 9.72 @ 138mph.
New combo, with 563ci made 140 more HP, and I switched to a Clutchless Liberty 4 speed. Should run bottom 9's, high 8's on a good day.
69 GTX
68 Road Runner
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Re: Fast cars with a third pedal...
[Re: JERICOGTX]
#3091104
11/02/22 10:27 AM
11/02/22 10:27 AM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,610 Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,610
Rittman Ohio
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I don't race much anymore but my best pass was 10.91 at 124 in my Savoy. 493 with Indy EZ heads, mild flat tappet cam, 10.9 comp, Richmond 5-speed with faceplate by Liberty's, Long V-gate, 3.54 D-60, Performer RPM with a QF 1050 4150 carb. Older Hays MK XII adjustable plate and Ram bronze disc. Gus
64 Plymouth Savoy 493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow 5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box Dana 60
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Re: Fast cars with a third pedal...
[Re: 68LAR]
#3091182
11/02/22 03:07 PM
11/02/22 03:07 PM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 570 UK
rb446
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 570
UK
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Last edited by rb446; 11/02/22 03:20 PM.
1969 'Cuda 446ci, best 9.96@133.9 in 1990 1971 340 'Cuda, best 11.01@122.8 in 1987
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Re: Fast cars with a third pedal...
[Re: rb446]
#3091230
11/02/22 06:42 PM
11/02/22 06:42 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,173 CT
GTX MATT
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,173
CT
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Mine isn’t as fast as what you’re looking for, but I’ll bite. Mine went 12.57 @ 113 last weekend, with a soft 1.79 60 ft and sloooow shifts. It took 9 passes, but thats the first complete pass the car has run. From here I can try to launch it harder and shift it faster. Do you guys find shifting slow affects trap speed or et more? Combo is stock stroke 440, Racer Brown ST-21 (254 @ .050, 520 lift), 107 LSA, RPM intake with an 850 DP, Stealth heads, 18 spline with a Ram Powergrip HD, and 4.10 8 3/4 (reason for babying the launch and shifts). The last 3 passes the clutch seemed to slip in first, I pedaled it some and it locked up and held for the rest of the run. But I was actually thinking about throwing a 727 in it to see what it runs with it
Last edited by GTX MATT; 11/02/22 08:23 PM.
Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
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Re: Fast cars with a third pedal...
[Re: GTX MATT]
#3091308
11/03/22 04:36 AM
11/03/22 04:36 AM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,267 Netherlands
72Challenger
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,267
Netherlands
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In the past (racing is 99% dead over here so meanwhile sold the car) I have gone 8.9's with my Challenger.
Guestimate at around 2900lbs 528 pumpgas, flat tapped cammed, single dominator, Hemi Gforce clutchless 4speed and adj. clutch I believe from Hyatt. Dana60 with 456 gears and 33" slicks.
Had some topend troubles with the engine so was potential a 8.7 I guess.
'
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Re: Fast cars with a third pedal...
[Re: cuda499]
#3092576
11/08/22 02:35 PM
11/08/22 02:35 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 784 Minnesota
skep419
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 784
Minnesota
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Thanks for sharing, looking for inspiration. I'm putting together a 69 Dart stock bottom end/head 5.9 magnum, cam/springs, air gap intake, Centerforce clutch 440 source flywheel, 2.66 23 spline A833, 8 3/4 3.23 gears (I have a complete 3.91 742 center if needed) Hoping it will run in the 7's 1/8.
Last edited by skep419; 11/09/22 10:30 AM.
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Re: Fast cars with a third pedal...
[Re: viperblue72]
#3093582
11/11/22 10:53 PM
11/11/22 10:53 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,610 Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,610
Rittman Ohio
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I have one I still need to sort out. ‘74 cuda, 3650 race weight. 511/trickflow 270, tkx 5-speed. I managed to make a couple easy passes this summer but didn’t have a rollcage yet so I launched and shifted easy. Went 11.26@130.5. https://youtube.com/shorts/sYdGhhFns7g?feature=share How do you like the TKX gearbox? Does the shifter go smooth at high RPM's ? I haven't read many reviews about how they react on the strip with some HP in front of them. Gus
64 Plymouth Savoy 493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow 5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box Dana 60
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Re: Fast cars with a third pedal...
[Re: viperblue72]
#3093741
11/12/22 03:54 PM
11/12/22 03:54 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,610 Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,610
Rittman Ohio
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Thanks I have a few of my 833 customers asking me about converting their cars over to some type of OD box. The online claims as to the strength of this box are as usual seem highly inflated. I have built a few T56 transmissions and the design prohibits high speed power shifts even when the gears are face-plated. I may just sell a few of my transmissions and buy one of these boxes as my car is more street than strip right now. I only hope that is will hold up to the torque and weight of my car with sticky tires. I will probably install the adjustable clutch or try one of those Clutch Tamer deals to keep the teeth on the gears. Gus
64 Plymouth Savoy 493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow 5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box Dana 60
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Re: Fast cars with a third pedal...
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#3093951
11/13/22 01:55 PM
11/13/22 01:55 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,141 junction city oregon
viperblue72
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,141
junction city oregon
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Thanks I have a few of my 833 customers asking me about converting their cars over to some type of OD box. The online claims as to the strength of this box are as usual seem highly inflated. I have built a few T56 transmissions and the design prohibits high speed power shifts even when the gears are face-plated. I may just sell a few of my transmissions and buy one of these boxes as my car is more street than strip right now. I only hope that is will hold up to the torque and weight of my car with sticky tires. I will probably install the adjustable clutch or try one of those Clutch Tamer deals to keep the teeth on the gears. Gus I have done my research as far as strength, there’s plenty of guys out there running 9s that like them. The guy at silversport claimed that the 600ft lb. Rating of the tkx is underrated. The .68 overdrive is probably nice for a lot of people. But with the cam I have in my car, I have to be going 75mph to even use overdrive.
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Re: Fast cars with a third pedal...
[Re: viperblue72]
#3093991
11/13/22 05:42 PM
11/13/22 05:42 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,266 New York, USA
Chargerfan68
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,266
New York, USA
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Years ago when I dealt with Kiesler and thier Tko 600 tranny, it was rated at 600 ft lbs. my engine did not produce that much, but maybe within 40-50 of that. After I broke the tranny, i was told that launching on slicks at the track spiked the shockload above the 600. I got into a nasty brawl with them and they did end up sending me the broken 3rd gear and cluster gear for free. I installed it myself.
I then had the gears faceplated by liberty. I broke the 3rd gear again on the very first pass at the track as well as split the main case. I then went with a jerico.
Point is, i’m not sure what the torque ratings mean if we have no idea of what the shockloads are. A major factor is the clutch. The adjustable slipper type will reduce the shockloads on the shifts.
Just added this info for consideration no matter what trans is used. Good luck.
1.50 60Ft. , 10.75@ 127MPH Hauling 3900 LBS.
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Re: Fast cars with a third pedal...
[Re: Chargerfan68]
#3094070
11/14/22 08:27 AM
11/14/22 08:27 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,092 MN
JERICOGTX
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,092
MN
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Point is, i’m not sure what the torque ratings mean if we have no idea of what the shockloads are. A major factor is the clutch. The adjustable slipper type will reduce the shockloads on the shifts.
A stick car really shouldn't deadhook. I ran the same combo in 2 different car. One with 10.5" tires, and one with 14" tires. The old car never once had a problem with the trans. The new car will deadhook every where we went, and broke first gear in the Jerico. Yes I run a slipper clutch, and only 250lbs of base pressure. Will be interesting to see what the new Liberty does with an extra 140hp, and 90ft lbs of torque.
69 GTX
68 Road Runner
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Re: Fast cars with a third pedal...
[Re: JERICOGTX]
#3094080
11/14/22 09:16 AM
11/14/22 09:16 AM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 13,227 aZLiViN
J_BODY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 13,227
aZLiViN
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Point is, i’m not sure what the torque ratings mean if we have no idea of what the shockloads are. A major factor is the clutch. The adjustable slipper type will reduce the shockloads on the shifts.
A stick car really shouldn't deadhook. I ran the same combo in 2 different car. One with 10.5" tires, and one with 14" tires. The old car never once had a problem with the trans. The new car will deadhook every where we went, and broke first gear in the Jerico. Yes I run a slipper clutch, and only 250lbs of base pressure. Will be interesting to see what the new Liberty does with an extra 140hp, and 90ft lbs of torque. and we’re counting the days until your last shovel of snow is thrown and the mosquitoes hatch….
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Re: Fast cars with a third pedal...
[Re: JERICOGTX]
#3094170
11/14/22 03:31 PM
11/14/22 03:31 PM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 104 Washington
weedburner
member
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member
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 104
Washington
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Point is, i’m not sure what the torque ratings mean if we have no idea of what the shockloads are. A major factor is the clutch. The adjustable slipper type will reduce the shockloads on the shifts.
A stick car really shouldn't deadhook. I ran the same combo in 2 different car. One with 10.5" tires, and one with 14" tires. The old car never once had a problem with the trans. The new car will deadhook every where we went, and broke first gear in the Jerico. Yes I run a slipper clutch, and only 250lbs of base pressure. Will be interesting to see what the new Liberty does with an extra 140hp, and 90ft lbs of torque. When you don't want a car to dead hook, you then have to hit the tires hard enough to knock them loose. Only 250lbs of base tune in a slipper may sound like a soft hitting clutch, but low base just means the balance of the clamp pressure required to get the wheelspeed you want has to come from centrifugal assist. The more traction you have, the harder you gotta hit the input shaft to get the wheelspeed. Then there's the fact that a clutch tune that relies heavily on centrifugal assist will hit the input shaft much harder than it needs to after a WOT shift. I'm all for adjustable base, but for most applications the adjustable centrifugal assist feature leaves potential on the table. Torque x RPM, highest average number wins if you can get all that power to the track consistently. More launch rpm adds area under the engine's rpm trace, which means the engine will produce more power strokes in a given time frame. But what happens after the shifts can also add area under the engine's rpm trace. With the typical diaphragm, B&B, or Long style pressure plate (spring pressure only, no added centrifugal assist), the drawdown part of the engine rpm trace after the shift will be pretty linear, basically a straight line like on this graph below... With a SoftLok style "adjustable slipper clutch" that uses counterweights in addition to spring pressure to clamp the disc, the drawdown part of the engine rpm trace will form a gradual curve. Because the centrifugal counterweight component relaxes as the clutch pulls engine rpm down, overall clutch clamp pressure relaxes as well. Note that engine rpm initially drops very quickly after the gear change (trace falls almost straight down initially), but then the trace begins to curve as the clutch gradually loses it's ability to pull the engine down any further... An advantage you get from the curved engine rpm drawdown shape is that it adds area under the engine's rpm trace (more engine power strokes in a given time frame). If the clutch had not slipped at all after the above 1/2 shift, the ratio change dictates it would have pulled the engine down to around 5245rpm (input shaft speed) after the tires hooked back up. But because the SoftLok style clutch has an additional centrifugal component, clamp pressure gradually relaxed as the engine lost rpm, which in-turn gradually slowed down the rpm loss. Because the car was also gaining speed while the clutch was slipping, the delayed lockup point raised the minimum rpm after the shift to 6302 instead of drawing the engine all the way down to 5245rpm as predicted by the ratio change. That added clutch slip time effectively tightens up the engine's operating range, which in-turn allows the engine to operate higher on the plateau of its HP curve. Going back to the static-only (no added centrifugal assist) straight line clutch graph, it's important to know that you can adjust the angle of engine rpm drawdown after the shifts by adjusting the clutch's static clamp pressure. Note on the below graph that the angle of drawdown after both shifts are basically the same, while the drawdown after launch is still straight but the angle is different as launch rpm was drawn out over a longer time period... The above difference between launch and after shift drawdown angles was made possible by externally controlling throwout bearing position during launch. Basically the throw-out bearing was not allowed to fully retract during launch, which prevented the full force of the clutch's spring pressure from clamping the disc. The throw-out bearing was then allowed to retract shortly after launch, which in-turn increased the clutch clamp pressure available for the shifts. The angle of drawdown during launch is adjusted via throw-out bearing position, while the angle of drawdown after the shifts is adjusted via static clamp pressure. In the end you end up with more clutch slip during launch, and less clutch slip after the shifts. Here's the SoftLok style curved drawdown shape compared to what the "static only" straight drawdown could look like if static clamp pressure were optimized. Notice how the "static-only" (no centrifugal assist) straight-line drawdown angle can be optimized to add even more area under the engine's rpm trace than the traditional SoftLok style curved drawdown. Also note that the initial drawdown after the shift is not as steep. That flatter angle indicates energy is leaving the engine's rotating assy at a slower rate initially, which in-turn makes it easier to keep the tires stuck thru the shift. Because the engine is producing power at a quicker rate during the optimized "static only" straight-line drawdown, the clutch lockup point occurs sooner, which then allows the engine to get a head start on its climb to the next shift point... When you add external throw-out bearing position control to the "static only" (no centrifugal assist) straight-line drawdown, it allows you to take advantage of much higher rpm launches without knocking the tires loose. That adds even more area under the engine rpm trace without pulling the engine down below its torque peak. The resulting high rpm dead hook launch really shines on a crappy track, it also reduces the need to adjust tire pressure and launch rpm for the purpose of controlling wheelspeed. Without the need to control wheelspeed, you will likely be able to make use of less first gear ratio, which will in-turn allow tightening up the gear splits if that is an option for you. Little gains here and there, but it all adds up. In the end its much like a quick automatic transmission car. A less efficient coupling (converter) allows the engine launch higher and gain rpm faster, while also reducing rpm loss after the shifts. The increase in power production shows up as more area under the engine rpm trace, and that added power production more than offsets the loss of mechanical efficiency. In my opinion, in most cases the traditional "adjustable slipper clutch" style centrifugal assist clutch tune is becoming outdated tech. First the centrifugal assist clutch tune limits your ability to take advantage of launch rpm, then it hits the tires harder than it needs to after the shifts. Knocking the tires loose after the shifts is usually what prevents guys from making the switch to radials. Even if you have a modern ECU that allows momentarily reducing power to absorb the spike after the shifts, those momentary power reductions still cost you ET vs a properly adjusted "static only" clutch that needs minimal or no power reduction after the shifts. When you combine a suitable static only clutch with the ability to raise launch rpm by controlling throw-out bearing position during launch, the adjustable centrifugal assist feature in most cases becomes obsolete. Grant
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Re: Fast cars with a third pedal...
[Re: weedburner]
#3094184
11/14/22 04:30 PM
11/14/22 04:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,092 MN
JERICOGTX
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,092
MN
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I run a lot of counterweight. I also do not have as deep of a first gear as a "normal" stick car. Don't need it... and yes it helps with the splits. 2nd gear slider is the most abused part on a clutchless trans.
69 GTX
68 Road Runner
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