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Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
#1090906
10/08/11 11:39 PM
10/08/11 11:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms
OP
Mr Wizzard
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OP
Mr Wizzard
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
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I am continuing my quest to document as many original 340 engine details as I can. I am starting with 70-71 engines and will work on other years as the opportunities present themselves. This thread pertains to documenting known original parts that are from the same engine, correct casting numbers, part numbers, date codes, etc. I have been studying and recording as many as I can before the most original examples are no longer around for reference due to restoration or replacement parts,etc. The most complete/survivor cars offer the most complete and most accurate information but those cars are exceedingly rare so I've been breaking it down to sections (engine/trans/rear end, etc.) in hopes of gathering more good detail and date code info. Below are the known original parts found on one particular 340 engine I recently aquired as a complete and mostly unmolested original engine parts package, I have photos of all details mentioned and others as well. I have a second even more complete example I'll be documenting and posting on as well in the next few days. If any of you wish to duplicate my efforts by submitting similar info. of your cars/engine/trans/rear details and wish to add it to my data base I would welcome it. Please feel free to contact me, I'll help you out if you need it. I will keep your cars/parts info private if you so desire. Thanks!  Known Original Car History Info: 1971 Dodge Challenger, 340 Automatic, A/C, and Power Steering. Low mile original car involved in a bad accident, off road and in storage for many years. Car reported to have been parted out in Virginia near Roanoke. Block Cast Date: 7/2/1970Block Assembly Information Stamping: GW340P3350029Block VIN Sequence Stamping: 1B166168Intake Manifold Casting Date: 6/19/70 Water Neck: Casting Number 2780 970Original Engine Paint Color: OrangeOil Pan Design: Stamped "294" without welded in pan rail stiffening tabsValve covers: Large/Tall Passenger Side Wire Loom Style
Drivers Side Upright Wire Loom Stand Located In The Forward Location (As Opposed To The Rearward Position Common To AAR/TA Engines)
No Paint On Wire Loom Plastic Insulators
Engine Paint On All Rubber Grommets
Engine Paint On PCV Valve
Engine Paint on Oil Fill Cap
Gaskets Black Rubber With Engine Paint On Tabs Exhaust Manifold Casting Dates: PN 3418621-1 Dated 9-14-70
PN 3418623 Dated 9-10-70Carburetor: Thermo-Quad 4973s
Stamped Date J0
3 Piece Gasket set, Asbestos, Aluminum Spacer, Asbestos Choke: Large Number On Top Of Housing Can Stamped “75”
Small Digits Stamped Across Near Rod Opening Stamped BA148Choke rod: Stamped “489”Idle Stop Solenoid: DR1114429Coil: Part# Ink Stamp 2495531
Date Code Ink Stamping 330Temperature sending unit: Stamped 250
Dated 0 GOil Sending Unit Stamped On Underside In Singular Digits Spaced Evenly Around The Rim 8 8 0 0Distributor: Tag Part# Stamping 3438517
Tag Date Stamping 360
Vacuum Advance Unit Stamping Number 3433888Water Pump Housing: Casting Number 2951698 09104 Cav. 3
Casting Date 10/70Fuel Filter: Ink Stamped 30206 3220Power Steering Hose: Black With Solid Red Stripe Running Full Length
Stamped Into The Steering Box End Steel Crimp 35284 211Engine Insulator Rubber Mounts: Passenger Side Casting Number 2536121 2833735
Casting Date 8/70Drivers Side Is A Replacement
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Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
[Re: ademon]
#1090908
10/09/11 12:10 AM
10/09/11 12:10 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms
OP
Mr Wizzard
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OP
Mr Wizzard
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
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Noted Demon, I don't have the heads for this engine but have already asked for that info. As far as the blue vs orange engine deal, yes I'm aware of that. My effort here is not meant to set any standard, I'm just gathering information that will hopefully paint a better picture of how things (usually) were. The items lacking from the above list are only missing because this particular example didn't have any other original parts to pull date codes or other details (short of paint over spray, etc.) those have been noted in a different document.
Look at how some of the dates relate to one another in the above example; for instance, the engine was assembled September 14, 1970, and the exhaust manifolds were cast only 2 weeks prior, the carburetor was also built sometime in September, that's a pretty tight time window, yet the intake was cast all the way back in June of 1970!
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Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
[Re: chrisf]
#1090913
10/09/11 11:41 AM
10/09/11 11:41 AM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,552
Sweden
71redcuda
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,552
Sweden
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Quote:
i like where this thread is heading 
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Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
[Re: NV69B7RR]
#1090915
10/09/11 12:58 PM
10/09/11 12:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 29,654
Hamtramck, PA
Alaskan_TA
Fluffy Balladeer
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Fluffy Balladeer
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 29,654
Hamtramck, PA
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Quote:
will work on other years as the opportunities present themselves
Block Cast Date:
9/28/72
Block Assembly Information Stamping:
?? 340 P 4127 8126
Block VIN Sequence Stamping:
3G 139836
Original Engine Paint Color:
Blue
(Short block only)
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Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#1090917
10/09/11 06:38 PM
10/09/11 06:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms
OP
Mr Wizzard
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OP
Mr Wizzard
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
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Thanks to all who posted!
Here's my next victim, just got it home, probably be a week or so before I can post the details. It's a really early 1971 engine, 4 speed engine (bell housing, etc still attached) LA plant VIN to boot. Really clean "survivorish" engine, never appart, all original paint, just a few tune up parts changed and has a replacment distributor, alternator, and is missing the choke, drivers engine mount, and starter.
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Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#1090920
10/09/11 07:26 PM
10/09/11 07:26 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,901
New Jersey Bada Bing
bremotorsports
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,901
New Jersey Bada Bing
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71 340 Plymouth Cuda Convertible BS27H1B344342 Built 3/31/71 FE5/H6XW/V3W/V6W Sold Through: Karl Gould Chrysler Plymouth, Vestal, NY Automatic (Console) Power Steering (Fast Ratio) Manual Drum Brakes 11 X 3/11 X 2.5 Block Cast Date: 1/20/71 Block Casting ID: 2780930-340-6 Engine Assembly Stamping: GM340P 35100085 Block VIN Sequence Stamping: 1B344342 Intake Manifold Stamping Date: 1/21/71 ("Hump" Style) Intake Manifold Vacuum Plug: 6-Point Raised Hex Original Engine Paint Color: Blue Oil Pan Design: Stamped "294". No pan rail stiffening tabs. Valve Covers: Passenger Side: Standard Clips (No wire trough). Short upright loom bracket in rear position. Driver Side: Tall upright loom bracket in rear position. Engine paint on wire loom insulators, all rubber grommets, PCV valve and oil fill cap. PCV Grommet: 2536926 Pentastar only (No DPCD) Breather Grommet: 2946079 Pentastar only (No DPCD) Gaskets: Rubber Carburetor: 4973S Stamped Date On Base: 0201 Base Gasket Assy: 3-Piece with Aluminum Spacer Choke: Housing Stamped "75" Choke Rod: Stamped "489" Idle Stop Solenoid: DR1114429 Ignition Coil: Stamped 2495531 Built In USA Date code unreadable. Temperature Sending Unit: 250 rating Date code B1 Oil Pressure Sending Unit: 8021 ("Green Top" unit for Std. Instrument Cluster) Distributor: Tag Stamped 3438517 Date Code 031 Vacuum Advance Unit Stamped 3438229 (Stamped Rating at 9.5") Water Pump Housing: Casting 2951698 Casting Date 10/70 Fuel Filter: Not Original Power Steering Hose: (Fast Ratio) Pressure Hose Fittings Part Number/Date Code: 2891232/013 1 Hose Date Info: 3361-2170A with Yellow Stripes Return Hose Vendor Code/Date Info: 83044/0471 Engine Insulator Rubber Mount: Passenger Side: 2536121/2863735 2/71 Driver Side: 2536121/2863735 2/71 Alternator: 3438172 Date Code 49 70 Water Pump Pulley (2951936): Assembly line pulley with no number stamp on pulley. NOS pulleys on hand have number. Need more samples to review. Cylinder Heads: "J" Castings Thermostat Housing: 2780970 09104-13 Thermostat: Original Dole DVP-10 185 degree Fuel Pump: 6178S Date Code 075 1 Natural finish with no overspray. Dipstick Tube: Blue Dipstick Handle: Black Carb Return Spring: Violet Accelerator Cable Bracket and Return Spring Bracket: Blue Spark Plug Wires: Not original Heater Hose: 1/2" 2936392 90142A 0391 5/8" 860457 90142A 0361 Radiator Hoses: Upper: 3462102 Lower: 3462165 Exhaust Manifold Castings/Dates: 3418621-3 2/2/71 3418623 1/29/71 Fan Belt: 3418943 (But not original) Power Steering Belt: 2951984 Date Code 0481 Fan Blade: 2863216 Fan Clutch: 3462112 Date Code H12A Distributor Hold Down Clamp: Copper Plated Negative Battery Cable: Stamped 2983826 and Vendor Code 73691 No paint on cable. Accelerator Cable Sleeve: Appears to be green tint. Starter Motor: 2875560 Date Code 091 DOES YOUR HEAD HURT YET? Bill Rolik bremotorsports@verizon.netwww.billrolikenterprises.com201-394-5533 Cellular
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Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1090922
10/09/11 09:17 PM
10/09/11 09:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms
OP
Mr Wizzard
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OP
Mr Wizzard
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
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Here are the specs I have so far on the engine shown above, some minor dissasembly will be required to get more numbers to fill in the blanks.
Known Original Car History Info: 1971 Dodge Demon, 340 4 Speed, Los Angeles Plant, Power Steering, Power Brakes, FC7, Car reported to have been parted out in Montana. The VIN# falls between 2 known VINs that had SPD's of November 17th and November 22nd, so best guess at the SPD of the car this came out of would be around November 17th, 1970.
Block Cast Date:
5/7/70
Block Assembly Information Stamping:
GW340P 3266 0517 July 07 1970 Assembly Date
Block VIN Sequence Stamping:
1E122889
Heads:
Both are "J" heads
Bell Housing:
Casting Date May/1970
Engine Paint Over Spray Over Much Of It
Intake Manifold Casting Date:
5/22/70
Water Neck:
Casting Number 2780 970
Original Engine Paint Color:
Orange
Oil Pan Design:
Stamped "294" without welded in pan rail stiffening tabs
Valve covers:
Large/Tall Passenger Side Wire Loom Style
Drivers Side Upright Wire Loom Stand Located In The Forward Location (As Opposed To The Rearward Position Common To AAR/TA Engines)
No Paint On Wire Loom Plastic Insulators
Engine Paint On All Rubber Grommets
Engine Paint On PCV Valve
Engine Paint on Oil Fill Cap
Gaskets Cork With Engine Paint On Tabs
Exhaust Manifold Casting Dates:
PN 3418621-1 Dated
PN 3418623 Dated
Carburetor:
Thermo-Quad 4972s D
Stamped Date 2960 October 23rd, 1970
3 Piece Gasket set, Asbestos, Aluminum Spacer, Asbestos
Choke:
Missing
Choke rod:
Missing
Fuel Pump
Stamped Date 209 0 July 28, 1970
Idle Stop Solenoid:
DR1114429
Coil:
Missing
Temperature sending unit:
Stamped 250
Dated 0 F
Oil Sending Unit
Date Stamped on Hex Side 80
Distributor:
Missing
Water Pump Housing/Timming Chain Cover:
Casting Number 2951698 09104 Cav. 3
Casting Date
Fuel Filter:
Unreadable, Likely A Replacement
Fan Blade
Ink Stamped 2863215
Fan Clutch
Stamped 2863 233
Center Stamped H13A (difficult to read)
Power Steering Hose:
No Assembly
Negative Battery Cable
Missing All But End Connected To Head, Appears Factory, No Signs Of Engine Paint Over Spray
Engine Insulator Rubber Mounts:
Missing Both Insulators
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Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
[Re: cudaize]
#1090928
10/17/11 12:15 AM
10/17/11 12:15 AM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,123
Warrenton, VA
RoadRunnerJD
master
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master
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,123
Warrenton, VA
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Scott, this is the best thread in a long time! Would you want any 69 info posted here? I am restoring a 340S fastback 4 speed and there is an original owner 69 340s 4 speed convertible w-factory air who lurks on here. Other than the lower rad hose, fanbelts, radiator, negative battery cable, plug wires, alternator and carb, mine was unmolested right down to the heat shield and all A/C stuff still intact.
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Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
[Re: bremotorsports]
#1090930
10/17/11 08:03 PM
10/17/11 08:03 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,123
Warrenton, VA
RoadRunnerJD
master
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master
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,123
Warrenton, VA
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69 340 Plymouth Barracuda 340S fastback
11/13/11 ADDED MORE TRANS INFO....
Some of the casting numbers and stamped numbers were hard to read but I believe these to be correct after close inspection.
History: North Carolina undercoated car supposedly parked since 1979
SPD: C09 Monday Dec 09, 1968
K-frame 323 8 2 Nov 30
4 Speed Trans: full vin number and below it some assembly info as follows:
PP8332692. 0155
The 2692 designates Dec 10 which is one day after the SPD
B5 B5 D6X X9 blue fire metallic with deluxe bucket seat interior
Rally dash/ tachometer
D21 4 speed (no console)
Power Steering
Manual Disc Brakes
H51 heater with A/C
Block Cast Date: 9-17-68
Block Casting ID: 2780930-340-8
Engine Assembly Stamping: EW340P26880427 (Dec 6 EAD)
Block VIN: full VIN stamped on oilpan rail pad
Oil filter adapter: 11 11 8
Bell Housing: 68 and dots in 8 of the 12 squares Aug 68
Main bearings: most stamped AT20 P21 and dated 10 68
Bearings had an oil groove in top half
#3 main had a 10 68 dated bottom and an 8 68 top
#5 had no date on bottom and 10 68 top
Rod brgs.: all marked H24 9-68
Intake Manifold: 2531915-2
Casting Date: 10 29 8
Original Engine Paint Color: turquoise
Oil Pan Design:
Stamped "394" with pan rail stiffening tabs on each corner
Valve Covers:
Passenger Side: Standard Clips (with wire trough). Short upright loom bracket in rear position.
Driver Side: Tall upright loom bracket in rear position.
No paint on wire loom insulators
Engine paint on PCV rubber grommets & PCV valve
PCV had numbers on it: 9 8
Oil fill cap: black painted
PCV Grommet: 2536926 DPCD but no Pentastar
Gaskets: cork
Carburetor: was stamped D8 with 68 part number and assumed not original to the car
Choke: Housing Stamped "45"
Ignition Coil: Stamped 2444242
Date code unreadable.
Temperature Sending Unit: it's somewhere?
Oil Pressure Sending Unit:
M8 80 ("unpainted gold bell Top for rallye Instrument Cluster)
Distributor:
Tag Stamped 2875782 big scroll letters "Prestolite" with the words Prestolite Limited under it
P/N IBS -4015 B Date Code 11A
Vacuum Advance Unit No outside marking
Water Pump Housing:
Casting 2402794 6 blade small dia. Impeller
Casting Date not legible
Fuel Filter: Not Original
Power Steering Hose:
Pressure Hose Fittings Part Number/Date Code: 2891078 95165
Hose Date Info: 340 8
Return Hose Vendor Code/Date Info: 95165
Engine Insulator Rubber Mount: discarded
Alternator: not original to car
Water Pump Pulley: no number stamp on pulley.
Cylinder Heads: "X" Castings 2531894-E
Left 11 18 8, Right 11 21 8
Thermostat Housing: 2780970 no date NW-7
Fuel Pump: 4587S
Date Code 325 8
Natural finish with no overspray. Unlit hose has a 3 prong spring clamp (not a wire clamp
Dipstick Tube andhandle: Engine color
Carb Return Spring:
Accelerator Cable Bracket and Return Spring Bracket: engine color
Spark Plug Wires: Not original
Heater Hose: not original
Radiator Hoses:
Upper: original but not legible
Lower: not original
Exhaust Manifold Castings/Dates:
2863549 11 27 8 passenger side
2863553 11 14 8
Fan Belt: (not original)
Power Steering Belt:
Fan Blade: 2863215
Fan Clutch:
Date Code
Distributor Hold Down Clamp: Copper Plated
Negative Battery Cable: not original
Ground strap completely painted engine color
Last edited by RoadRunnerJD; 11/13/11 05:57 PM.
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Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
[Re: Rhinodart]
#1090936
10/19/11 07:28 AM
10/19/11 07:28 AM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,123
Warrenton, VA
RoadRunnerJD
master
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master
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,123
Warrenton, VA
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Quote:
I just took a 340 4-speed factory A/C drivetrain out of a 69 Formula S convertible, I will check the date codes out when I dissemble it and post them! 
Can you post a photo of the front of the motor with things bolted up to the water pump?
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Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
[Re: RoadRunnerJD]
#1090939
10/21/11 11:56 PM
10/21/11 11:56 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,655
Cut and Shoot, TX
kentj340
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,655
Cut and Shoot, TX
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RoadRunnerJD posted about a 69 Barracuda 340S fastback:
"Distributor Hold Down Clamp: Copper Plated"
I have a 69 340S also with a copper plated hold down clamp. But the copper plate on my clamp originally had a black coating on top, maybe paint - not sure. I scrubbed it with a mild abrasive, and the black came off.
Can anybody discuss details about this metal finish? Is it actually black paint over copper plate, or some chemical reaction on top of the copper?
I've seen plenty of discussions about finishes like zinc plating with chromates and dichromates, and phosphating, but I've never seen a finish discussed anywhere that had copper plate on steel with something black on top.
If you don't see two dolphins, you need a vacation.
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Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1090943
11/05/11 04:10 PM
11/05/11 04:10 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 10,570
Sunny South Florida
Golden-Arm
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 10,570
Sunny South Florida
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scott, when i picked up my 69 340 a couple of weeks ago, the guy was cool, and threw the trans in, with the deal. motor is complete except for the manifolds and fan (blewbyu somehow managed to buy from the motor....  ) and it's all there, including starter, alternator, fuel pump, carb, etc. can get you some numbers when i get it out of the trailer. will ask the "a" body guys to post in the various forums, to see if anyone has the car for this motor, and if they do, i'd swap it for another 340. mine did turn over, and nothing seems broken/missing externally. mines going into a dakota, so the starter, intake and carb, alternator and brackets, dizzie, etc., may be available, as i wont need them. thats UNLESS someone finds the car to match the numbers, and the person actually wants it. 
"When Tyranny Becomes Law, Rebellion Becomes Duty"
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Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1090945
11/05/11 04:19 PM
11/05/11 04:19 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,123
Warrenton, VA
RoadRunnerJD
master
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master
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,123
Warrenton, VA
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Quote:
Yes, all 68-73 340 4 barrel's should have a painted bypass hose
No paint on your bypass but it looks like paint on the alternator bracket bolt where it goes thru the water pump. No paint on the power steering bracket bolt. Is the negative cable mounted under the the throttle return spring bracket?
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Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1090948
11/06/11 09:47 PM
11/06/11 09:47 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,123
Warrenton, VA
RoadRunnerJD
master
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master
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,123
Warrenton, VA
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Quote:
Thanks to all who posted!
Here's my next victim, just got it home, probably be a week or so before I can post the details. It's a really early 1971 engine, 4 speed engine (bell housing, etc still attached) LA plant VIN to boot. Really clean "survivorish" engine, never appart, all original paint, just a few tune up parts changed and has a replacment distributor, alternator, and is missing the choke, drivers engine mount, and starter.
Is there part of the negative battery cable still attached to the front of the head? Is that where the cable is supposed to be attached?
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Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
[Re: Golden-Arm]
#1090949
11/06/11 10:23 PM
11/06/11 10:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,283
Florida
blewbyu
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,283
Florida
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Quote:
scott, when i picked up my 69 340 a couple of weeks ago, the guy was cool, and threw the trans in, with the deal. motor is complete except for the manifolds and fan (blewbyu somehow managed to buy from the motor.... ) and it's all there, including starter, alternator, fuel pump, carb, etc. can get you some numbers when i get it out of the trailer.
will ask the "a" body guys to post in the various forums, to see if anyone has the car for this motor, and if they do, i'd swap it for another 340. mine did turn over, and nothing seems broken/missing externally. mines going into a dakota, so the starter, intake and carb, alternator and brackets, dizzie, etc., may be available, as i wont need them. thats UNLESS someone finds the car to match the numbers, and the person actually wants it.
Sorry about the parts missing  but when i seen the add on Ebay it said those items where not included with the auction for the motor, so i called the guy and asked if he had them and wanted to sell them, and he said yes. The manifolds were spot on date code for my car and my fan blade was bent up. On another note are you saying the motor was a 69 date 340 and not the numbers matching to that Demon. As it sure looked like a correct 71 engine to me in the pictures.
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Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1090951
11/07/11 09:12 PM
11/07/11 09:12 PM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,487
STL
cdstl
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,487
STL
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My 340 has a cast date of 01.18.71 but the VIN stamped on it is 3G. They waited a while to put this motor into something. I tried to post pics but they are 10M and won't upload.
1972 Cuda 340 4 speed, 2001 Ram CTD 4x4 6 speed, 1970 Duster 408 4 speed, 1996 Ram 5.9 2x4 auto, 1965 Coronet 500
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Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
[Re: blewbyu]
#1090952
11/07/11 09:13 PM
11/07/11 09:13 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 10,570
Sunny South Florida
Golden-Arm
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 10,570
Sunny South Florida
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thanks. 300 bucks off the local craigslist, and it'll carry the engine and trans back to florida, and i'll resell it for a beach trailer, or whatever. as for the "correct" 69 or 71 thing, it's casting #2780930-340-1 Date code 1-17-69. scott says it was the correct motor. i guess like the hemis, they cast so many, the original run lasted for 3 model years. i didnt look at the vin in the car, as i had no interest in it, so i couldnt verify the numbers matching. had it been a black '72, i woulda looked, as i've been looking for my original demon for 20 years. i added bearing buddies to the trailer, and i'm gonna get new bearings, before i head back home. new tires are already done.
"When Tyranny Becomes Law, Rebellion Becomes Duty"
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Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
[Re: Steve340]
#1090955
11/13/11 05:03 PM
11/13/11 05:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,547
Puyallup, Wa.
Steve340
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,547
Puyallup, Wa.
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Can you spot how many things are not original in these pictures?
Last edited by Steve340; 11/13/11 05:04 PM.
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Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
[Re: Steve340]
#1090956
11/14/11 03:59 AM
11/14/11 03:59 AM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,906
IL, Aurora
ademon
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,906
IL, Aurora
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Quote:
Can you spot how many things are not original in these pictures?
pvc valve
master cyl cap
exh manifold
dist cap and wires
heater hose
oil fill cap
what do i win???
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Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
[Re: ChryCoGuy]
#1090964
08/16/12 12:14 PM
08/16/12 12:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms
OP
Mr Wizzard
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OP
Mr Wizzard
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
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Well first of all it sounds like you are sending an unarmed soldier into battle, or at best, handing him a rifle he's never fired and doesn't even know how to load and saying "good luck!" In other words, making a purchase decision based on a novice doing some 3rd party numbers checking in an effort to verify a car isn't something I'd recommend. That's a job for someone with (at minimum) some decent knowledge of the car in question, it's difficult enough even if you are experienced, especially with the rampant fraud that has entered the hobby these days concerning fake documentation, restamped drive trains and body parts, as well as the simple fact that many owners are ignorant to the real facts and will parrot what someone else has incorrectly told them about their cars. All that said, to break down the numbers seen on this thread the only good guides that I'd recommend are Galen Goviers white books, and those can be a bit cryptic to decipher if you are a novice. Posting details on Moparts will likely get you the best answers the fastest. 
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Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1090965
08/16/12 12:45 PM
08/16/12 12:45 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,321
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ChryCoGuy
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Quote:
Well first of all it sounds like you are sending an unarmed soldier into battle, or at best, handing him a rifle he's never fired and doesn't even know how to load and saying "good luck!"
In other words, making a purchase decision based on a novice doing some 3rd party numbers checking in an effort to verify a car isn't something I'd recommend. That's a job for someone with (at minimum) some decent knowledge of the car in question, it's difficult enough even if you are experienced, especially with the rampant fraud that has entered the hobby these days concerning fake documentation, restamped drive trains and body parts, as well as the simple fact that many owners are ignorant to the real facts and will parrot what someone else has incorrectly told them about their cars.
All that said, to break down the numbers seen on this thread the only good guides that I'd recommend are Galen Goviers white books, and those can be a bit cryptic to decipher if you are a novice. Posting details on Moparts will likely get you the best answers the fastest.
The car is on the other side of the country so I can't see it personally. He's a long time friend who's been into cars for over 30 years, just not into Mopars (owns some nice brand "X" iron as well). Moreover this guy has offered to check it out and even store it at his place until I can get it shipped east... great guy!
It looks like it would be a reasonable deal whether it has the correct engine or not, if the body is as good as it looks, with original paint and everything else all there (i.e. not hot rodded or otherwise messed with) - it's not huge money.
No biggie for me as I've never really been a "numbers" or "value" guy... numbers would be a bonus, but in reality I just want something to drive and enjoy. More curiosity and interest in learning as much about these cars as I can.
I thought it might be a little more straight forward than that, but thanks anyway!
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Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1090978
11/13/13 02:36 AM
11/13/13 02:36 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,655
Cut and Shoot, TX
kentj340
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Original head gasket, 69 340, P.N. 2863 493, with Pentastar.
If you don't see two dolphins, you need a vacation.
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Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
[Re: kentj340]
#1090981
11/13/13 02:44 AM
11/13/13 02:44 AM
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Cut and Shoot, TX
kentj340
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Discovered that the factory installed this head gasket in 'blown' configuration. The gasket was torn at the top of one cylinder and folded back on itself.
If you don't see two dolphins, you need a vacation.
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Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
[Re: kentj340]
#1090982
11/13/13 02:46 AM
11/13/13 02:46 AM
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Cut and Shoot, TX
kentj340
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It's obvious the head was tightened down on the tear, because the folded over part is compressed to the same thickness as the rest of the gasket. I had never removed that head until recently.
If you don't see two dolphins, you need a vacation.
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Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
[Re: kentj340]
#1090984
11/13/13 02:48 AM
11/13/13 02:48 AM
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Cut and Shoot, TX
kentj340
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I drove it 160,000 miles and never perceived a problem - there were
never any obvious symptoms. But I suppose the pressure inside the
crankcase must have been too high, and maybe that explains why the
exterior of the engine got so greasy.
If you don't see two dolphins, you need a vacation.
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Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1090987
11/14/13 05:49 AM
11/14/13 05:49 AM
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Cut and Shoot, TX
kentj340
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Warning! Don't accuse me of being totally anal and long winded, but I have inventoried every single attribute of every single fastener on my car, so I can get them batch restored and get them each back where they belong. On my 69 340, both coil mount bolts are 5/16-18 x 5/8 with 5/8 OD captive conical washer, grade 5.1. One has head marking of 3 dots and is S2 finish, phosphate and oil. The other has head marking GL and is S36 finish, zinc dichromate, yellow-rainbow. These are the same as the photo of part B-12548, "Chrysler Auto Trans Pan", on page 101 except for the head markings and S36 finish here: http://www.amkproducts.com/Catalog_PDF/92-108.pdfThe GL head marking is shown on the inside front cover, and the grade 5.1 head marking is shown on page 2 here: http://www.amkproducts.com/Catalog_PDF/FC-5.pdfSorry to say I did not take note of which bolt went in which hole, but I could have switched the bolts years ago anyway. Scott, tell me which bolt goes where, and I'll take photos as soon as I can get back to my Mopar man cave.
If you don't see two dolphins, you need a vacation.
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Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
[Re: kentj340]
#1090988
11/14/13 11:01 AM
11/14/13 11:01 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms
OP
Mr Wizzard
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Mr Wizzard
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Quote:
Warning! Don't accuse me of being totally anal and long winded
No worries on this thread! I have seen examples of the black and plated bolts on both front and rear positions. As in your case I expect the possibility of them being swapped at one time or another is possible. It seems that the bright plated bolt in the rear position has been most common in my observation.
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Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1090991
11/15/13 03:16 AM
11/15/13 03:16 AM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,906
IL, Aurora
ademon
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Quote:
Another odd 1971 only 340 detail. I was going through some of my used production line 1971 340 parts and came across this carburetor gasket (used under all 4972s and 4973s Thermo-Quads). It is pretty well known that these used a unique carb gasket combo; two foil/asbestos gaskets which sandwiched a thicker aluminum spacer plate/ The combo raised the carb up about 1/4" above the intake and the materials likely added some decent insulating properties.
What I wanted to call out on this post is a small easily overlooked detail of these gaskets. The 3 pieces were STAPLED together! That's right, the staples go through both the asbestos gaskets AND the thick solid aluminum plate! Pretty impressive staple power there! One staple in the front, one staple in the rear, likely to keep them as a set and for ease of assembly during production. I have never seen this on anything but production line examples.
i'll have to dig out my plate to see if there are any holes !!
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Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1090993
11/18/13 02:24 AM
11/18/13 02:24 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,655
Cut and Shoot, TX
kentj340
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Quote:
Can anyone post good pics of 100% confirmed original 340 coil mount bolts? Looking for head markings and plating colors. Front and rear bolts may have been unique.
Glad you asked, because as I was getting ready to make photos, I discovered a few nifty factoids.
1. I posted in error above that one bolt had maker’s mark “GL” on the head. After looking more carefully at the actual bolt rather than my fastener spreadsheet, I now see that the maker’s mark is actually “E”. “E” maker’s mark is also found on the inside front cover here:
http://www.amkproducts.com/Catalog_PDF/FC-5.pdf
along with a list of finish codes, like S36 Zinc Dichromate (yellow - rainbow) on page 4.
2. The exact same bolt with maker’s mark “E” was used on the rear of my 69 340 R head for the head-to-firewall ground wire.
3. I think there are only three bolts 5/16-18 x 5/8 on my 69 Barracuda, the two on the coil mount and the one on the R head. Each is pictured below.
4. I say “I think” in factoid 3 above, because now I am on a mission to find the battery ground cable-to-L head, which is S36 finish and has engine blue paint on it. It may also be 5/16-18 x 5/8? This was one of the first bolts I removed in my restoration quest, and it may be (hopefully) the only one not found so far in my spreadsheet. Isn’t this fun?
BTW, my theory on why some S36 fasteners were found on the engine: these were specified for best electrical conductivity as in the case of the coil mount and the battery ground cable. The intake manifold had S36 bolts because the coil is mounted on it, but meantime the intake manifold has a gasket under it that is non-conductive.
Here is the coil mount bolt with maker’s mark “E” and with S36 zinc dichromate (yellow – rainbow) finish. The original dichromate is not visible because I have cleaned it for re-plating and re-chromating. This engine bolt was NOT painted engine blue; i.e., the coil was added after the painting.
If you don't see two dolphins, you need a vacation.
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Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
[Re: kentj340]
#1090994
11/18/13 02:27 AM
11/18/13 02:27 AM
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Cut and Shoot, TX
kentj340
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Here’s the exact same bolt that came from the rear of the R head and held the firewall ground wire. This bolt was painted engine blue.
If you don't see two dolphins, you need a vacation.
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Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
[Re: kentj340]
#1090995
11/18/13 02:29 AM
11/18/13 02:29 AM
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Cut and Shoot, TX
kentj340
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Here’s the “3-dot” maker’s mark from the coil mount that is S2 phosphate and oil finish. This bolt has been degreased but not cleaned for re-phosphating.
If you don't see two dolphins, you need a vacation.
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Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
[Re: kentj340]
#1090997
11/18/13 02:32 AM
11/18/13 02:32 AM
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Cut and Shoot, TX
kentj340
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This photo clearly shows the S36 zinc dichromate (yellow – rainbow) finish on the bottom of the blue head bolt.
If you don't see two dolphins, you need a vacation.
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Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1090998
11/18/13 02:56 AM
11/18/13 02:56 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
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Cut and Shoot, TX
kentj340
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No, sorry, I did not record which hole in the coil mount that the S2 bolt came out of. Those bolts were also some of the first removed from the car when I didn't know I needed to be as anal as I am now.
Yes, the manifold-to-head bolts on my blue engine are also maker's mark "E", but they were a size bigger than the coil mount, namely 3/8-16 x 1-5/8. I'll try to post a photo later.
One of my manifold bolts broke off, so the manifold is still stuck to a head. I think it was real close to the exhaust passage - I suppose the heat made it stick. Last time I looked at it, I'm guessing the manifold was factory drilled from the backside, because there is no straight shot to the hole with the carb riser in the way. Its going to be tough to drill out...
If you don't see two dolphins, you need a vacation.
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Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1091001
11/18/13 05:16 PM
11/18/13 05:16 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,267
Connecticut
1972CudaV21
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Connecticut
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Quote:
Yes I've seen those as well (the "23" bolts) just never on an original 340 Careful consideration needs to be given when talking about different years because hardware and assembly methods varied a lot (even within the same year) especially in 1971 when the engine plant changed fro Windsor to Mound Road (when the engines went from Orange to Blue paint). Ill be posting more pics of various bolts Ive found on my 71 survivor engine this week.
Oh, so moving the production to Mound Road was when the color changed? What date was that? My car was built 10/71. Yet, the casting date on my 340(original block)is 1/71.
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Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
[Re: bremotorsports]
#1091005
11/30/13 03:00 AM
11/30/13 03:00 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,655
Cut and Shoot, TX
kentj340
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Anybody know what was the original bolt head for a 69 turquoise 340 left head-to-neg batt cable? I know it was 5/16-18, S36 zinc dichromate yellow-rainbow finish, but I don't know the length, washer details, nor maker's mark.
Could it have been identical to the S36 "E" bolt above?
If you don't see two dolphins, you need a vacation.
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Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
[Re: kentj340]
#1091006
11/30/13 03:06 AM
11/30/13 03:06 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms
OP
Mr Wizzard
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OP
Mr Wizzard
Joined: Jan 2003
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Spokane Washington
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Quote:
Could it have been identical to the S36 "E" bolt above?
I don't know but that's what my original 71 340 has, unpainted bolt and cable.
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Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1091007
11/30/13 03:55 AM
11/30/13 03:55 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,655
Cut and Shoot, TX
kentj340
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Thanks, Scott. And speaking of coils (other thread), my 69 340 coil (from a Hamtramck car delivered to Houston) was made in Canada. Never seen a Canadian repro offered...
If you don't see two dolphins, you need a vacation.
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Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
[Re: kentj340]
#1091008
11/30/13 04:16 AM
11/30/13 04:16 AM
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Posts: 1,655
Cut and Shoot, TX
kentj340
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Here's the original stencil marks.
If you don't see two dolphins, you need a vacation.
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Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
[Re: kentj340]
#1091009
11/30/13 04:18 AM
11/30/13 04:18 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
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Cut and Shoot, TX
kentj340
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Another, slightly rotated.
If you don't see two dolphins, you need a vacation.
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Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
[Re: kentj340]
#1091010
11/30/13 04:25 AM
11/30/13 04:25 AM
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Cut and Shoot, TX
kentj340
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And here's the totally anal question: What the heck is the meaning of a "10A" date code? The car was built November, 1968.
Could 10 be October and A stand for 1968?
If you don't see two dolphins, you need a vacation.
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Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
[Re: kentj340]
#1091011
11/30/13 11:49 AM
11/30/13 11:49 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,385
Ohio
rck850
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pro stock
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Posts: 1,385
Ohio
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Quote:
Anybody know what was the original bolt head for a 69 turquoise 340 left head-to-neg batt cable? I know it was 5/16-18, S36 zinc dichromate yellow-rainbow finish, but I don't know the length, washer details, nor maker's mark.
Could it have been identical to the S36 "E" bolt above?
Picture of bolt head. Might take longer for details
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Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
[Re: rck850]
#1091014
11/30/13 08:35 PM
11/30/13 08:35 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,655
Cut and Shoot, TX
kentj340
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Picture of bolt head. Might take longer for details
Cool, thanks! I see blue paint on the cable, which means the bolt used to have blue paint on it also. Looks like there were three identical 5/16-18 x 5/8 "E" bolts on the 69 340: R rear head to firewall ground, L front head to neg batt ground, and rear bolt on coil strap.
On your 69 GTS 340 Dart, I'd love to see good photos of the distributor clamp and the distributor.
Distributor clamp: It's well established these were copper plated, but I strongly suspect they were black in appearance due to a chemical process (hot alkaline dip?) known as copper blackening. I've never found any discussion about black clamps. Is your clamp black colored or copper colored? Warning - the blackened surface may be very thin and easily removed down to copper plating by mild abrasive scrubbing.
Distributor body: Is it a black painted iron casting? What is on the aluminum tag, and were tags different for manual and auto transmissions? I'd like to see a good photo of an original 69 340 4-speed tag.
If you don't see two dolphins, you need a vacation.
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Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1091036
01/11/14 06:22 PM
01/11/14 06:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,404
Lee Co. Fla.
5carguy
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I would like to refresh this post for all the information that it is generating. I would also like to add my engine to the others. A little history of the car, 1971 Plymouth Cuda,Sassy grass Green 4 speed SPD feb 71 * means not original to engine Engine color Orange Block cast 8-30-70 Block assy info stamping CW340P34260406 assembled Dec 14,1970 Intake manifold cast date * 10-22-70 Waterneck 2780970 Oil pan stamped 294 no welded tabs Temp sending unit stamped 250 date M1 Waterpump housing 2951698 Date 10-70 * Carb 4972S Date I 0 Heads J That's all I have for now. Can't figure out the date code on carb. Thanks and hope this helps with the research,it is sure helping me. Bob T.
Last edited by 5carguy; 01/11/14 06:29 PM.
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Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1091040
01/12/14 08:20 PM
01/12/14 08:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,404
Lee Co. Fla.
5carguy
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Thanke You Scott for the picture,that helps a lot.I looked in my nut and bolt stash but couldn't find any.Anyone know where I can find a set?Also need oil pan bolts. One more question,what is the carb date of J 0,and is it in the time frame for this assembled engine of Dec 14 70? Thanks in advance
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Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
[Re: cdp]
#1091047
02/23/14 06:51 PM
02/23/14 06:51 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,691
MO
cdp
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,691
MO
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Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
[Re: cdp]
#1091053
02/26/14 03:18 PM
02/26/14 03:18 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,691
MO
cdp
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,691
MO
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Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
[Re: cdp]
#1091054
02/26/14 03:19 PM
02/26/14 03:19 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,691
MO
cdp
master
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master
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Posts: 3,691
MO
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Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1885337
08/05/15 12:30 AM
08/05/15 12:30 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,655
Cut and Shoot, TX
kentj340
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This thread seems to be for pre-'72 340s, as opposed to another similar one that is '72 up. I removed my '69 340 vibration dampener recently and found the rubber inlay to be in bad shape. The 273, 318, and 340 all got the same dampener made with a cast iron hub and an outer cast iron circle with a rubber layer between. According to this link, http://www.hbrepair.com/harmonic_balancer_001.htmthe purpose of a harmonic balancer or vibration dampener is to limit the amount of crankshaft twisting caused by power strokes. I found 2 vendors that will renew the rubber inlay: www.damperdoctor.comwww.hbrepair.com
If you don't see two dolphins, you need a vacation.
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Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
[Re: kentj340]
#1885352
08/05/15 12:41 AM
08/05/15 12:41 AM
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Cut and Shoot, TX
kentj340
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Here's photos of my crank pulley, 3 grooves for a 340 with A/C, same pulley as a 318 with A/C. There are no visible markings or part number anywhere on the pulley.
There were also 2 groove and 1 groove crank pulleys for with power steering and without. 273, 318, and 340 shared the same 1 and 2 groove crank pulleys.
This front groove is cast iron with rubber inlay, and the back 2 are spun from sheet metal.
If you don't see two dolphins, you need a vacation.
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Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1907255
09/06/15 01:18 AM
09/06/15 01:18 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,116
Sacramento,California
JRepucci
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Jason, it looks like this one, an "L" in a circle with 3 hash marks Thanks Scott. Does it have the "teeth" on the washer face like the hemi solenoid nuts?
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I added some info regarding the trans and K-frame. Has anyone else had a trans assembly date later than the engine assembly date and SPD? I wonder if they had a reason to wait for the trans? Shortage? strike!
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