Moparts
Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread!
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 10/09/11 03:39 AM
I am continuing my quest to document as many original 340 engine details as I can. I am starting with 70-71 engines and will work on other years as the opportunities present themselves. This thread pertains to documenting known original parts that are from the same engine, correct casting numbers, part numbers, date codes, etc. I have been studying and recording as many as I can before the most original examples are no longer around for reference due to restoration or replacement parts,etc. The most complete/survivor cars offer the most complete and most accurate information but those cars are exceedingly rare so I've been breaking it down to sections (engine/trans/rear end, etc.) in hopes of gathering more good detail and date code info.
Below are the known original parts found on one particular 340 engine I recently aquired as a complete and mostly unmolested original engine parts package, I have photos of all details mentioned and others as well. I have a second even more complete example I'll be documenting and posting on as well in the next few days.
If any of you wish to duplicate my efforts by submitting similar info. of your cars/engine/trans/rear details and wish to add it to my data base I would welcome it. Please feel free to contact me, I'll help you out if you need it. I will keep your cars/parts info private if you so desire.
Thanks!
Known Original Car History Info: 1971 Dodge Challenger, 340 Automatic, A/C, and Power Steering. Low mile original car involved in a bad accident, off road and in storage for many years. Car reported to have been parted out in Virginia near Roanoke.
Block Cast Date:
7/2/1970Block Assembly Information Stamping:
GW340P3350029Block VIN Sequence Stamping:
1B166168Intake Manifold Casting Date:
6/19/70 Water Neck:
Casting Number 2780 970Original Engine Paint Color:
OrangeOil Pan Design:
Stamped "294" without welded in pan rail stiffening tabsValve covers:
Large/Tall Passenger Side Wire Loom Style
Drivers Side Upright Wire Loom Stand Located In The Forward Location (As Opposed To The Rearward Position Common To AAR/TA Engines)
No Paint On Wire Loom Plastic Insulators
Engine Paint On All Rubber Grommets
Engine Paint On PCV Valve
Engine Paint on Oil Fill Cap
Gaskets Black Rubber With Engine Paint On Tabs Exhaust Manifold Casting Dates:
PN 3418621-1 Dated 9-14-70
PN 3418623 Dated 9-10-70Carburetor:
Thermo-Quad 4973s
Stamped Date J0
3 Piece Gasket set, Asbestos, Aluminum Spacer, Asbestos Choke:
Large Number On Top Of Housing Can Stamped “75”
Small Digits Stamped Across Near Rod Opening Stamped BA148Choke rod:
Stamped “489”Idle Stop Solenoid:
DR1114429Coil:
Part# Ink Stamp 2495531
Date Code Ink Stamping 330Temperature sending unit:
Stamped 250
Dated 0 GOil Sending Unit
Stamped On Underside In Singular Digits Spaced Evenly Around The Rim 8 8 0 0Distributor:
Tag Part# Stamping 3438517
Tag Date Stamping 360
Vacuum Advance Unit Stamping Number 3433888Water Pump Housing:
Casting Number 2951698 09104 Cav. 3
Casting Date 10/70Fuel Filter:
Ink Stamped 30206 3220Power Steering Hose:
Black With Solid Red Stripe Running Full Length
Stamped Into The Steering Box End Steel Crimp 35284 211Engine Insulator Rubber Mounts:
Passenger Side Casting Number 2536121 2833735
Casting Date 8/70Drivers Side Is A Replacement
Posted By: ademon
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 10/09/11 03:58 AM
your missing the X to J head changeover controversy, so i would look for head casting dates with the letter prefix info, and the whole orange to blue engine paint thing, those are the two 340 questions that pop up a lot. also remember there are at least a couple of us with engine cast dates that are 4 months earlier than the assembly date !!
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 10/09/11 04:10 AM
Noted Demon, I don't have the heads for this engine but have already asked for that info. As far as the blue vs orange engine deal, yes I'm aware of that. My effort here is not meant to set any standard, I'm just gathering information that will hopefully paint a better picture of how things (usually) were. The items lacking from the above list are only missing because this particular example didn't have any other original parts to pull date codes or other details (short of paint over spray, etc.) those have been noted in a different document.
Look at how some of the dates relate to one another in the above example; for instance, the engine was assembled September 14, 1970, and the exhaust manifolds were cast only 2 weeks prior, the carburetor was also built sometime in September, that's a pretty tight time window, yet the intake was cast all the way back in June of 1970!
Posted By: quick77rt
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 10/09/11 04:10 AM
I have a matching numbers car that the build date was the last date of the mod year...block was cast 1-1 of the same year, whats that 7-8 month gap???? Why??
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 10/09/11 04:21 AM
I can't answer that question but I think a likely scenario is that they didn't control inventory like companies do today, it wasn't first in first out, and I'm sure items were misplaced only to be redicovered later to be used when found again, etc. I'm sure they pulled inventory at random in many cases.
Your engine likely just sat around a while before getting either assembled or shipped as in Ademons case, his sat around assembled from November all the way to (April or May?) before being installed.
Posted By: bremotorsports
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 10/09/11 02:16 PM
Scott,
Since we are both charter members of the 70-71 340 CDFA (Certified Detail Freak Association), I will provide (and post here) the info for the original engine in my 71 convertible (BS27H1B344342). Subsequently, I will also provide fastener info as well, so as to enhance the archival info for interested owners of these engines.
Bill Rolik
bremotorsports@verizon.netwww.billrolikenterprises.com201-394-5533 Cellular
Posted By: chrisf
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 10/09/11 03:24 PM
i like where this thread is heading
Posted By: 71redcuda
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 10/09/11 03:41 PM
Quote:
i like where this thread is heading
Posted By: NV69B7RR
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 10/09/11 04:15 PM
x3
If theres any info I can provide from my car, don't hesitate to ask!
Posted By: Alaskan_TA
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 10/09/11 04:58 PM
Quote:
will work on other years as the opportunities present themselves
Block Cast Date:
9/28/72
Block Assembly Information Stamping:
?? 340 P 4127 8126
Block VIN Sequence Stamping:
3G 139836
Original Engine Paint Color:
Blue
(Short block only)
Posted By: John_Kunkel
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 10/09/11 07:52 PM
Quote:
I have a matching numbers car that the build date was the last date of the mod year...block was cast 1-1 of the same year, whats that 7-8 month gap???? Why??
One possibility is that there was a problem with the casting; not enough to scrap it but enough to delay machining/assembly.
There have been multiple examples posted on this forum of wide gaps between casting dates and build dates....proof that "there ain't no rules" when discussing dates.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 10/09/11 10:38 PM
Thanks to all who posted!
Here's my next victim, just got it home, probably be a week or so before I can post the details. It's a really early 1971 engine, 4 speed engine (bell housing, etc still attached) LA plant VIN to boot. Really clean "survivorish" engine, never appart, all original paint, just a few tune up parts changed and has a replacment distributor, alternator, and is missing the choke, drivers engine mount, and starter.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 10/09/11 10:40 PM
VIn
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 10/09/11 10:41 PM
Assembly
Posted By: bremotorsports
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 10/09/11 11:26 PM
71 340 Plymouth Cuda Convertible
BS27H1B344342
Built 3/31/71
FE5/H6XW/V3W/V6W
Sold Through: Karl Gould Chrysler Plymouth, Vestal, NY
Automatic (Console)
Power Steering (Fast Ratio)
Manual Drum Brakes 11 X 3/11 X 2.5
Block Cast Date:
1/20/71
Block Casting ID:
2780930-340-6
Engine Assembly Stamping:
GM340P 35100085
Block VIN Sequence Stamping:
1B344342
Intake Manifold Stamping Date:
1/21/71 ("Hump" Style)
Intake Manifold Vacuum Plug:
6-Point Raised Hex
Original Engine Paint Color:
Blue
Oil Pan Design:
Stamped "294". No pan rail stiffening tabs.
Valve Covers:
Passenger Side: Standard Clips (No wire trough). Short upright loom bracket in rear position.
Driver Side: Tall upright loom bracket in rear position.
Engine paint on wire loom insulators, all rubber grommets, PCV valve and oil fill cap.
PCV Grommet: 2536926 Pentastar only (No DPCD)
Breather Grommet: 2946079 Pentastar only (No DPCD)
Gaskets: Rubber
Carburetor:
4973S
Stamped Date On Base: 0201
Base Gasket Assy: 3-Piece with Aluminum Spacer
Choke:
Housing Stamped "75"
Choke Rod:
Stamped "489"
Idle Stop Solenoid:
DR1114429
Ignition Coil:
Stamped 2495531
Built In USA
Date code unreadable.
Temperature Sending Unit:
250 rating
Date code B1
Oil Pressure Sending Unit:
8021 ("Green Top" unit for Std. Instrument Cluster)
Distributor:
Tag Stamped 3438517
Date Code 031
Vacuum Advance Unit Stamped 3438229 (Stamped Rating at 9.5")
Water Pump Housing:
Casting 2951698
Casting Date 10/70
Fuel Filter:
Not Original
Power Steering Hose: (Fast Ratio)
Pressure Hose Fittings Part Number/Date Code: 2891232/013 1
Hose Date Info: 3361-2170A with Yellow Stripes
Return Hose Vendor Code/Date Info: 83044/0471
Engine Insulator Rubber Mount:
Passenger Side: 2536121/2863735 2/71
Driver Side: 2536121/2863735 2/71
Alternator:
3438172
Date Code 49 70
Water Pump Pulley (2951936):
Assembly line pulley with no number stamp on pulley. NOS pulleys on hand have number. Need more samples to review.
Cylinder Heads:
"J" Castings
Thermostat Housing:
2780970 09104-13
Thermostat:
Original Dole DVP-10 185 degree
Fuel Pump:
6178S
Date Code 075 1
Natural finish with no overspray.
Dipstick Tube:
Blue
Dipstick Handle:
Black
Carb Return Spring:
Violet
Accelerator Cable Bracket and Return Spring Bracket:
Blue
Spark Plug Wires:
Not original
Heater Hose:
1/2" 2936392 90142A 0391
5/8" 860457 90142A 0361
Radiator Hoses:
Upper: 3462102
Lower: 3462165
Exhaust Manifold Castings/Dates:
3418621-3 2/2/71
3418623 1/29/71
Fan Belt:
3418943 (But not original)
Power Steering Belt:
2951984 Date Code 0481
Fan Blade:
2863216
Fan Clutch:
3462112
Date Code H12A
Distributor Hold Down Clamp:
Copper Plated
Negative Battery Cable:
Stamped 2983826 and Vendor Code 73691
No paint on cable.
Accelerator Cable Sleeve:
Appears to be green tint.
Starter Motor:
2875560
Date Code 091
DOES YOUR HEAD HURT YET?
Bill Rolik
bremotorsports@verizon.netwww.billrolikenterprises.com201-394-5533 Cellular
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 10/09/11 11:38 PM
Yes, head is pounding and I'm sure it will continue. The blue engines have a TON of things I've noticed that are not the same on orange engines, I have only documented one that was original enough to rely on, it had pretty much the same detail differences as yours does. I'll post that one later. I've also tweaked my original post to add a few things I forgot your notes reminded me of a few things.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 10/10/11 01:17 AM
Here are the specs I have so far on the engine shown above, some minor dissasembly will be required to get more numbers to fill in the blanks.
Known Original Car History Info: 1971 Dodge Demon, 340 4 Speed, Los Angeles Plant, Power Steering, Power Brakes, FC7, Car reported to have been parted out in Montana. The VIN# falls between 2 known VINs that had SPD's of November 17th and November 22nd, so best guess at the SPD of the car this came out of would be around November 17th, 1970.
Block Cast Date:
5/7/70
Block Assembly Information Stamping:
GW340P 3266 0517 July 07 1970 Assembly Date
Block VIN Sequence Stamping:
1E122889
Heads:
Both are "J" heads
Bell Housing:
Casting Date May/1970
Engine Paint Over Spray Over Much Of It
Intake Manifold Casting Date:
5/22/70
Water Neck:
Casting Number 2780 970
Original Engine Paint Color:
Orange
Oil Pan Design:
Stamped "294" without welded in pan rail stiffening tabs
Valve covers:
Large/Tall Passenger Side Wire Loom Style
Drivers Side Upright Wire Loom Stand Located In The Forward Location (As Opposed To The Rearward Position Common To AAR/TA Engines)
No Paint On Wire Loom Plastic Insulators
Engine Paint On All Rubber Grommets
Engine Paint On PCV Valve
Engine Paint on Oil Fill Cap
Gaskets Cork With Engine Paint On Tabs
Exhaust Manifold Casting Dates:
PN 3418621-1 Dated
PN 3418623 Dated
Carburetor:
Thermo-Quad 4972s D
Stamped Date 2960 October 23rd, 1970
3 Piece Gasket set, Asbestos, Aluminum Spacer, Asbestos
Choke:
Missing
Choke rod:
Missing
Fuel Pump
Stamped Date 209 0 July 28, 1970
Idle Stop Solenoid:
DR1114429
Coil:
Missing
Temperature sending unit:
Stamped 250
Dated 0 F
Oil Sending Unit
Date Stamped on Hex Side 80
Distributor:
Missing
Water Pump Housing/Timming Chain Cover:
Casting Number 2951698 09104 Cav. 3
Casting Date
Fuel Filter:
Unreadable, Likely A Replacement
Fan Blade
Ink Stamped 2863215
Fan Clutch
Stamped 2863 233
Center Stamped H13A (difficult to read)
Power Steering Hose:
No Assembly
Negative Battery Cable
Missing All But End Connected To Head, Appears Factory, No Signs Of Engine Paint Over Spray
Engine Insulator Rubber Mounts:
Missing Both Insulators
Posted By: bremotorsports
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 10/15/11 03:43 PM
Can anyone confirm the green tint on the barrel portion of the throttle cable on a 71 340 E-Body?
Thanks,
Bill Rolik
201-394-5533 Cellular
bremotorsports@verizon.netwww.billrolikenterprises.com
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 10/15/11 03:57 PM
Yes, I've seen that before. It looks like ink or paint was wiped onto it and it provided a background for a black date code ink stamp. I don't have photos of a good 340 version but this is a 71 Hemi throttle cable marked the same way. It's a sort of flat looking mint green the best I could tell.
Posted By: cudaize
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 10/17/11 12:16 AM
Here's the original cable form my 71 340 Cuda SPD 3/31/71. I can't confirm that it was green but I can't deny it wasn't. If you look the coloring on the ferrule on the cable is a different hue than on the sheath.
One thing I've notice looking at the NOS cables I have is that the ferrule was painted seperatley before it was crimped onto the the cable.
Mike Afflerbach
Posted By: cudaize
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 10/17/11 12:27 AM
I haven't documented all the parts on the engine of my car but here are some pictures from when I pulled it out back around 1990.
Posted By: cudaize
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 10/17/11 12:35 AM
Here are some components that I have documented.
Alternator: 3438172 dated 50 70
Starter: 2875560 date 7 1
Idle Solenoid: DR1114429 (round head)
Carb: was changed to a 6139
Fuel pump: replaced
right side rocker arm cover does not have the large wire clip that some of the early cars did.
Mike Afflerbach
Posted By: RoadRunnerJD
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 10/17/11 04:15 AM
Scott, this is the best thread in a long time! Would you want any 69 info posted here? I am restoring a 340S fastback 4 speed and there is an original owner 69 340s 4 speed convertible w-factory air who lurks on here. Other than the lower rad hose, fanbelts, radiator, negative battery cable, plug wires, alternator and carb, mine was unmolested right down to the heat shield and all A/C stuff still intact.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 10/17/11 05:22 AM
Absalutely! Any year 340 is fair game on this thread, the more original details the better. It's a HUGE jigsaw puzzle at this point, every little piece helps put the big picture together.
* I discovered that most of the hoses that were on my complete 71 engine above are the originals, most stamps are still readable so I'll be posting pics.
Posted By: RoadRunnerJD
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 10/18/11 12:03 AM
69 340 Plymouth Barracuda 340S fastback
11/13/11 ADDED MORE TRANS INFO....
Some of the casting numbers and stamped numbers were hard to read but I believe these to be correct after close inspection.
History: North Carolina undercoated car supposedly parked since 1979
SPD: C09 Monday Dec 09, 1968
K-frame 323 8 2 Nov 30
4 Speed Trans: full vin number and below it some assembly info as follows:
PP8332692. 0155
The 2692 designates Dec 10 which is one day after the SPD
B5 B5 D6X X9 blue fire metallic with deluxe bucket seat interior
Rally dash/ tachometer
D21 4 speed (no console)
Power Steering
Manual Disc Brakes
H51 heater with A/C
Block Cast Date: 9-17-68
Block Casting ID: 2780930-340-8
Engine Assembly Stamping: EW340P26880427 (Dec 6 EAD)
Block VIN: full VIN stamped on oilpan rail pad
Oil filter adapter: 11 11 8
Bell Housing: 68 and dots in 8 of the 12 squares Aug 68
Main bearings: most stamped AT20 P21 and dated 10 68
Bearings had an oil groove in top half
#3 main had a 10 68 dated bottom and an 8 68 top
#5 had no date on bottom and 10 68 top
Rod brgs.: all marked H24 9-68
Intake Manifold: 2531915-2
Casting Date: 10 29 8
Original Engine Paint Color: turquoise
Oil Pan Design:
Stamped "394" with pan rail stiffening tabs on each corner
Valve Covers:
Passenger Side: Standard Clips (with wire trough). Short upright loom bracket in rear position.
Driver Side: Tall upright loom bracket in rear position.
No paint on wire loom insulators
Engine paint on PCV rubber grommets & PCV valve
PCV had numbers on it: 9 8
Oil fill cap: black painted
PCV Grommet: 2536926 DPCD but no Pentastar
Gaskets: cork
Carburetor: was stamped D8 with 68 part number and assumed not original to the car
Choke: Housing Stamped "45"
Ignition Coil: Stamped 2444242
Date code unreadable.
Temperature Sending Unit: it's somewhere?
Oil Pressure Sending Unit:
M8 80 ("unpainted gold bell Top for rallye Instrument Cluster)
Distributor:
Tag Stamped 2875782 big scroll letters "Prestolite" with the words Prestolite Limited under it
P/N IBS -4015 B Date Code 11A
Vacuum Advance Unit No outside marking
Water Pump Housing:
Casting 2402794 6 blade small dia. Impeller
Casting Date not legible
Fuel Filter: Not Original
Power Steering Hose:
Pressure Hose Fittings Part Number/Date Code: 2891078 95165
Hose Date Info: 340 8
Return Hose Vendor Code/Date Info: 95165
Engine Insulator Rubber Mount: discarded
Alternator: not original to car
Water Pump Pulley: no number stamp on pulley.
Cylinder Heads: "X" Castings 2531894-E
Left 11 18 8, Right 11 21 8
Thermostat Housing: 2780970 no date NW-7
Fuel Pump: 4587S
Date Code 325 8
Natural finish with no overspray. Unlit hose has a 3 prong spring clamp (not a wire clamp
Dipstick Tube andhandle: Engine color
Carb Return Spring:
Accelerator Cable Bracket and Return Spring Bracket: engine color
Spark Plug Wires: Not original
Heater Hose: not original
Radiator Hoses:
Upper: original but not legible
Lower: not original
Exhaust Manifold Castings/Dates:
2863549 11 27 8 passenger side
2863553 11 14 8
Fan Belt: (not original)
Power Steering Belt:
Fan Blade: 2863215
Fan Clutch:
Date Code
Distributor Hold Down Clamp: Copper Plated
Negative Battery Cable: not original
Ground strap completely painted engine color
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 10/18/11 02:13 AM
Excellent detailed post John!
Posted By: RoadRunnerJD
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 10/18/11 02:27 AM
Thanks. Going over the dates made me think it must have been delivered just in time for someone who had a real special Christmas in 1969!
Posted By: RoadRunnerJD
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 10/19/11 04:07 AM
I added some info regarding the trans and K-frame. Has anyone else had a trans assembly date later than the engine assembly date and SPD? I wonder if they had a reason to wait for the trans? Shortage? strike!
Posted By: Rhinodart
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 10/19/11 04:27 AM
I just took a 340 4-speed factory A/C drivetrain out of a 69 Formula S convertible, I will check the date codes out when I dissemble it and post them!
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 10/19/11 04:55 AM
Thanks Jim....Also, could you note the finishes on the attaching hardware holding the A/C brackets, etc. onto the front of the engine, Black Oxide vs engine color, etc.
Posted By: RoadRunnerJD
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 10/19/11 11:28 AM
Quote:
I just took a 340 4-speed factory A/C drivetrain out of a 69 Formula S convertible, I will check the date codes out when I dissemble it and post them!
Can you post a photo of the front of the motor with things bolted up to the water pump?
Posted By: wally426ci
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 10/19/11 03:49 PM
Great thread!
Posted By: floyd
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 10/19/11 09:35 PM
Following the format from above:
71 340 Challenger
JH23H1B383559
Built 5/07/71
TX9/H6X9/V1X/V7W
4-Speed (Console)
Power Steering (Fast Ratio)
Power Disc Brakes
Block Cast Date:
TBD
Block Casting ID:
TBD
Engine Assembly Stamping:
TBD
Block VIN Sequence Stamping:
1B383559
Original Engine Paint Color:
Blue
Oil Pan Design:
Stamped "294". Pan rail stiffening tabs - TBD
Power Steering Hose: (Fast Ratio)
Pressure Hose Fittings Part Number/Date Code: 2891232/091 1
Hose Date Info: 33xx-xxxxx with Yellow Stripes
Return Hose Vendor Code/Date Info: 83044/1051
Cylinder Heads:
TBD
Negative Battery Cable:
Appears original – TBD on data
Everything else isn't original to the car.
Cool thread!
Posted By: kentj340
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 10/22/11 03:56 AM
RoadRunnerJD posted about a 69 Barracuda 340S fastback:
"Distributor Hold Down Clamp: Copper Plated"
I have a 69 340S also with a copper plated hold down clamp. But the copper plate on my clamp originally had a black coating on top, maybe paint - not sure. I scrubbed it with a mild abrasive, and the black came off.
Can anybody discuss details about this metal finish? Is it actually black paint over copper plate, or some chemical reaction on top of the copper?
I've seen plenty of discussions about finishes like zinc plating with chromates and dichromates, and phosphating, but I've never seen a finish discussed anywhere that had copper plate on steel with something black on top.
Posted By: RoadRunnerJD
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 10/22/11 04:32 AM
I was surprised too?? Hemi's and A12's with Prestolite dual points are not copper clad. Why is it like that on a 340?
Posted By: RoadRunnerJD
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/05/11 06:39 PM
On a 69, is the intake bypass hose to the waterpump painted?
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/05/11 07:49 PM
Yes, all 68-73 340 4 barrel's should have a painted bypass hose
Posted By: Golden-Arm
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/05/11 08:10 PM
scott, when i picked up my 69 340 a couple of weeks ago, the guy was cool, and threw the trans in, with the deal. motor is complete except for the manifolds and fan (blewbyu somehow managed to buy from the motor....
) and it's all there, including starter, alternator, fuel pump, carb, etc. can get you some numbers when i get it out of the trailer.
will ask the "a" body guys to post in the various forums, to see if anyone has the car for this motor, and if they do, i'd swap it for another 340. mine did turn over, and nothing seems broken/missing externally. mines going into a dakota, so the starter, intake and carb, alternator and brackets, dizzie, etc., may be available, as i wont need them. thats UNLESS someone finds the car to match the numbers, and the person actually wants it.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/05/11 08:18 PM
Cool beans! But trust me, you left the numbers matching car at the junk yard, 1969 was only when the block was cast, it was assembled as a 1971 engine and originally installed into that blue Demon.
Posted By: RoadRunnerJD
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/05/11 08:19 PM
Quote:
Yes, all 68-73 340 4 barrel's should have a painted bypass hose
No paint on your bypass but it looks like paint on the alternator bracket bolt where it goes thru the water pump. No paint on the power steering bracket bolt. Is the negative cable mounted under the the throttle return spring bracket?
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/05/11 08:20 PM
Post a picture, sounds like it's been replaced and had some paint touch up.
Posted By: Golden-Arm
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/05/11 08:44 PM
well then, that makes things much easier. i'll not worry about the lost car, and the guys claim this motor was replaced is just another story.....
Posted By: RoadRunnerJD
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/07/11 01:47 AM
Quote:
Thanks to all who posted!
Here's my next victim, just got it home, probably be a week or so before I can post the details. It's a really early 1971 engine, 4 speed engine (bell housing, etc still attached) LA plant VIN to boot. Really clean "survivorish" engine, never appart, all original paint, just a few tune up parts changed and has a replacment distributor, alternator, and is missing the choke, drivers engine mount, and starter.
Is there part of the negative battery cable still attached to the front of the head? Is that where the cable is supposed to be attached?
Posted By: blewbyu
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/07/11 02:23 AM
Quote:
scott, when i picked up my 69 340 a couple of weeks ago, the guy was cool, and threw the trans in, with the deal. motor is complete except for the manifolds and fan (blewbyu somehow managed to buy from the motor.... ) and it's all there, including starter, alternator, fuel pump, carb, etc. can get you some numbers when i get it out of the trailer.
will ask the "a" body guys to post in the various forums, to see if anyone has the car for this motor, and if they do, i'd swap it for another 340. mine did turn over, and nothing seems broken/missing externally. mines going into a dakota, so the starter, intake and carb, alternator and brackets, dizzie, etc., may be available, as i wont need them. thats UNLESS someone finds the car to match the numbers, and the person actually wants it.
Sorry about the parts missing but when i seen the add on Ebay it said those items where not included with the auction for the motor, so i called the guy and asked if he had them and wanted to sell them, and he said yes. The manifolds were spot on date code for my car and my fan blade was bent up. On another note are you saying the motor was a 69 date 340 and not the numbers matching to that Demon. As it sure looked like a correct 71 engine to me in the pictures.
Posted By: blewbyu
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/07/11 02:33 AM
Golden Arm
That is a pretty cool engine crate you got there. never seen a portable one before.
Posted By: cdstl
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/08/11 01:12 AM
My 340 has a cast date of 01.18.71 but the VIN stamped on it is 3G. They waited a while to put this motor into something. I tried to post pics but they are 10M and won't upload.
Posted By: Golden-Arm
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/08/11 01:13 AM
thanks. 300 bucks off the local craigslist, and it'll carry the engine and trans back to florida, and i'll resell it for a beach trailer, or whatever. as for the "correct" 69 or 71 thing, it's casting #2780930-340-1 Date code 1-17-69. scott says it was the correct motor. i guess like the hemis, they cast so many, the original run lasted for 3 model years. i didnt look at the vin in the car, as i had no interest in it, so i couldnt verify the numbers matching. had it been a black '72, i woulda looked, as i've been looking for my original demon for 20 years. i added bearing buddies to the trailer, and i'm gonna get new bearings, before i head back home. new tires are already done.
Posted By: bremotorsports
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/13/11 02:59 PM
This thread needs a jump start:
There must be some more 340's out there.
Sooooo........
LET'S SEE 'EM!
Thanks,
Bill Rolik
bremotorsports@verizon.net201-394-5533 Cellular
www.billrolikenterprises.com
Posted By: Steve340
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/13/11 09:02 PM
OK
Posted By: Steve340
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/13/11 09:03 PM
Can you spot how many things are not original in these pictures?
.JPG "6917742-lcover(1).JPG")
Posted By: ademon
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/14/11 07:59 AM
Quote:
Can you spot how many things are not original in these pictures?
pvc valve
master cyl cap
exh manifold
dist cap and wires
heater hose
oil fill cap
what do i win???
Posted By: RoadRunnerJD
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/15/11 07:28 PM
Numbers from my original trans
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 04/15/12 03:46 PM
Posted By: AdamR
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 04/25/12 11:03 PM
Anyone have any good pictures of a correct 73 A body 340 ?
Posted By: floyd
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 06/17/12 07:38 PM
Picked up today. Owner says it was put on the shelf in 1975. No info on the car it came from. It looks untouched. I can post more detail shots if anyone is interested.
- Casting 3512100
- Casting date 6 19 70
- Solenoid DR1114429
- Studs for the carb
Posted By: mopars_1
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 06/18/12 03:15 AM
Quote:
Picked up today. Owner says it was put on the shelf in 1975. No info on the car it came from. It looks untouched. I can post more detail shots if anyone is interested.
- Casting 3512100
- Casting date 6 19 70
- Solenoid DR1114429
- Studs for the carb
I didnt think they had studs for the carb on 71 340s? any rhyme or reason to having studs vs. bolts? any interest in selling the solenoid? 
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 06/18/12 03:47 AM
While that looks largely unmolested I've never seen studs on a 71 intake either, I'm doubtful that they are OEM. What is the date code on the temp sender?
Posted By: ChryCoGuy
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 08/16/12 03:56 PM
For those of us who are novices in the numbers game, is there a guide to refer to that indicates the location and translation of these numbers? Never had a 340 car before, but I'm looking at one and don't have much info on how to verify if it's the original engine for the car or not. I'll be asking a non-Mopar guy to check it out for me, since it's not in my area and I'd like to be able to clearly tell him what to look out for.
Great thread so far, by the way!
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 08/16/12 04:14 PM
Well first of all it sounds like you are sending an unarmed soldier into battle, or at best, handing him a rifle he's never fired and doesn't even know how to load and saying "good luck!"
In other words, making a purchase decision based on a novice doing some 3rd party numbers checking in an effort to verify a car isn't something I'd recommend. That's a job for someone with (at minimum) some decent knowledge of the car in question, it's difficult enough even if you are experienced, especially with the rampant fraud that has entered the hobby these days concerning fake documentation, restamped drive trains and body parts, as well as the simple fact that many owners are ignorant to the real facts and will parrot what someone else has incorrectly told them about their cars.
All that said, to break down the numbers seen on this thread the only good guides that I'd recommend are Galen Goviers white books, and those can be a bit cryptic to decipher if you are a novice. Posting details on Moparts will likely get you the best answers the fastest.
Posted By: ChryCoGuy
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 08/16/12 04:45 PM
Quote:
Well first of all it sounds like you are sending an unarmed soldier into battle, or at best, handing him a rifle he's never fired and doesn't even know how to load and saying "good luck!"
In other words, making a purchase decision based on a novice doing some 3rd party numbers checking in an effort to verify a car isn't something I'd recommend. That's a job for someone with (at minimum) some decent knowledge of the car in question, it's difficult enough even if you are experienced, especially with the rampant fraud that has entered the hobby these days concerning fake documentation, restamped drive trains and body parts, as well as the simple fact that many owners are ignorant to the real facts and will parrot what someone else has incorrectly told them about their cars.
All that said, to break down the numbers seen on this thread the only good guides that I'd recommend are Galen Goviers white books, and those can be a bit cryptic to decipher if you are a novice. Posting details on Moparts will likely get you the best answers the fastest.
The car is on the other side of the country so I can't see it personally. He's a long time friend who's been into cars for over 30 years, just not into Mopars (owns some nice brand "X" iron as well). Moreover this guy has offered to check it out and even store it at his place until I can get it shipped east... great guy!
It looks like it would be a reasonable deal whether it has the correct engine or not, if the body is as good as it looks, with original paint and everything else all there (i.e. not hot rodded or otherwise messed with) - it's not huge money.
No biggie for me as I've never really been a "numbers" or "value" guy... numbers would be a bonus, but in reality I just want something to drive and enjoy. More curiosity and interest in learning as much about these cars as I can.
I thought it might be a little more straight forward than that, but thanks anyway!
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 08/16/12 04:55 PM
Not a problem, but you are correct, it's not quite as simple as it might seem. If you could have your friend take some good photos of the various number stampings (detailed on your other thread) we could decipher them for you here. Or if you'd like have him call me when he's next to the car and I could walk him through it.
Cheers!
Scott
801-940-2689
*What type of car is it?
Posted By: ChryCoGuy
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 08/16/12 05:25 PM
Thanks again, Scott!
PM sent...
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 09/06/13 01:56 PM
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 10/27/13 05:46 PM
Keeping the thread alive....One recent update/correction. I've recently looked at several more survivor 70-71 340 engines and have come to the conclusion that my theory of some dip stick handles being bare steel as opposed to painted black is beginning to look invalid. The most recent examples I've looked at APPEARED to be bare steel but upon a very detailed inspection showed slight traces of black paint. I've also recently purchased an NOS dipstick handle that has original black paint which has VERY poor adhesion, about 75% of the original black paint had already flaked and fallen off simply from light shelf wear and handling. We all know that production line parts and replacement NOS parts could have had different finishes, but in this case I believe both were the same and it's not too difficult to imagine how a similarly painted handle would quickly wear to bare steel while in normal use. So.....The research continues but for now I'm sticking with them being painted black as the "norm". BTW, the NOS handle appears to have been dipped in black paint, VERY thin and over a poorly prepped surface with tons of fish eye.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 10/27/13 05:47 PM
Close up. Top stick in pic is an original from a survivor engine (Orange engine built in October of 1970). After a REALLY close look there are a few remaining black specs that looked like dirt/grease at first.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/12/13 05:44 AM
Another odd 1971 only 340 detail. I was going through some of my used production line 1971 340 parts and came across this carburetor gasket (used under all 4972s and 4973s Thermo-Quads). It is pretty well known that these used a unique carb gasket combo; two foil/asbestos gaskets which sandwiched a thicker aluminum spacer plate/ The combo raised the carb up about 1/4" above the intake and the materials likely added some decent insulating properties.
What I wanted to call out on this post is a small easily overlooked detail of these gaskets. The 3 pieces were STAPLED together! That's right, the staples go through both the asbestos gaskets AND the thick solid aluminum plate! Pretty impressive staple power there! One staple in the front, one staple in the rear, likely to keep them as a set and for ease of assembly during production. I have never seen this on anything but production line examples.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/12/13 05:45 AM
2B
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/12/13 05:46 AM
3c
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/12/13 05:46 AM
4d
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/12/13 05:47 AM
5e
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/12/13 05:47 AM
6f
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/12/13 05:48 AM
7g
Posted By: kentj340
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/13/13 06:36 AM
Original head gasket, 69 340, P.N. 2863 493, with Pentastar.
Posted By: kentj340
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/13/13 06:38 AM
Closer
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/13/13 06:39 AM
Nice
Posted By: kentj340
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/13/13 06:44 AM
Discovered that the factory installed this head gasket in 'blown' configuration. The gasket was torn at the top of one cylinder and folded back on itself.
Posted By: kentj340
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/13/13 06:46 AM
It's obvious the head was tightened down on the tear, because the folded over part is compressed to the same thickness as the rest of the gasket. I had never removed that head until recently.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/13/13 06:47 AM
WOW! Did it run poorly?
Posted By: kentj340
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/13/13 06:48 AM
I drove it 160,000 miles and never perceived a problem - there were
never any obvious symptoms. But I suppose the pressure inside the
crankcase must have been too high, and maybe that explains why the
exterior of the engine got so greasy.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/13/13 04:19 PM
Can anyone post good pics of 100% confirmed original 340 coil mount bolts? Looking for head markings and plating colors. Front and rear bolts may have been unique.
Posted By: floyd
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/13/13 07:42 PM
Scott - I sold the manifold pictured above to a friend. He's going to take a look and get back to me/you on what he finds.
Posted By: kentj340
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/14/13 09:49 AM
Warning! Don't accuse me of being totally anal and long winded, but I have inventoried every single attribute of every single fastener on my car, so I can get them batch restored and get them each back where they belong.
On my 69 340, both coil mount bolts are 5/16-18 x 5/8 with 5/8 OD captive conical washer, grade 5.1.
One has head marking of 3 dots and is S2 finish, phosphate and oil.
The other has head marking GL and is S36 finish, zinc dichromate, yellow-rainbow.
These are the same as the photo of part B-12548, "Chrysler Auto Trans Pan", on page 101 except for the head markings and S36 finish here:
http://www.amkproducts.com/Catalog_PDF/92-108.pdfThe GL head marking is shown on the inside front cover, and the grade 5.1 head marking is shown on page 2 here:
http://www.amkproducts.com/Catalog_PDF/FC-5.pdfSorry to say I did not take note of which bolt went in which hole, but I could have switched the bolts years ago anyway.
Scott, tell me which bolt goes where, and I'll take photos as soon as I can get back to my Mopar man cave.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/14/13 03:01 PM
Quote:
Warning! Don't accuse me of being totally anal and long winded
No worries on this thread! I have seen examples of the black and plated bolts on both front and rear positions. As in your case I expect the possibility of them being swapped at one time or another is possible. It seems that the bright plated bolt in the rear position has been most common in my observation.
Posted By: floyd
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/15/13 01:24 AM
Scott - Close up of the intake I used to own
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/15/13 04:09 AM
Thanks Floyd, is the front bolt plated or black? Any idea on the head markings?
Posted By: ademon
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/15/13 07:16 AM
Quote:
Another odd 1971 only 340 detail. I was going through some of my used production line 1971 340 parts and came across this carburetor gasket (used under all 4972s and 4973s Thermo-Quads). It is pretty well known that these used a unique carb gasket combo; two foil/asbestos gaskets which sandwiched a thicker aluminum spacer plate/ The combo raised the carb up about 1/4" above the intake and the materials likely added some decent insulating properties.
What I wanted to call out on this post is a small easily overlooked detail of these gaskets. The 3 pieces were STAPLED together! That's right, the staples go through both the asbestos gaskets AND the thick solid aluminum plate! Pretty impressive staple power there! One staple in the front, one staple in the rear, likely to keep them as a set and for ease of assembly during production. I have never seen this on anything but production line examples.
i'll have to dig out my plate to see if there are any holes !!
.jpg "7924887-340solinoid002(1024x768).jpg")
Posted By: ademon
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/15/13 07:17 AM
i see two on the back
Posted By: kentj340
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/18/13 06:24 AM
Quote:
Can anyone post good pics of 100% confirmed original 340 coil mount bolts? Looking for head markings and plating colors. Front and rear bolts may have been unique.
Glad you asked, because as I was getting ready to make photos, I discovered a few nifty factoids.
1. I posted in error above that one bolt had maker’s mark “GL” on the head. After looking more carefully at the actual bolt rather than my fastener spreadsheet, I now see that the maker’s mark is actually “E”. “E” maker’s mark is also found on the inside front cover here:
http://www.amkproducts.com/Catalog_PDF/FC-5.pdf
along with a list of finish codes, like S36 Zinc Dichromate (yellow - rainbow) on page 4.
2. The exact same bolt with maker’s mark “E” was used on the rear of my 69 340 R head for the head-to-firewall ground wire.
3. I think there are only three bolts 5/16-18 x 5/8 on my 69 Barracuda, the two on the coil mount and the one on the R head. Each is pictured below.
4. I say “I think” in factoid 3 above, because now I am on a mission to find the battery ground cable-to-L head, which is S36 finish and has engine blue paint on it. It may also be 5/16-18 x 5/8? This was one of the first bolts I removed in my restoration quest, and it may be (hopefully) the only one not found so far in my spreadsheet. Isn’t this fun?
BTW, my theory on why some S36 fasteners were found on the engine: these were specified for best electrical conductivity as in the case of the coil mount and the battery ground cable. The intake manifold had S36 bolts because the coil is mounted on it, but meantime the intake manifold has a gasket under it that is non-conductive.
Here is the coil mount bolt with maker’s mark “E” and with S36 zinc dichromate (yellow – rainbow) finish. The original dichromate is not visible because I have cleaned it for re-plating and re-chromating. This engine bolt was NOT painted engine blue; i.e., the coil was added after the painting.
Posted By: kentj340
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/18/13 06:27 AM
Here’s the exact same bolt that came from the rear of the R head and held the firewall ground wire. This bolt was painted engine blue.
Posted By: kentj340
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/18/13 06:29 AM
Here’s the “3-dot” maker’s mark from the coil mount that is S2 phosphate and oil finish. This bolt has been degreased but not cleaned for re-phosphating.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/18/13 06:31 AM
I have also seen a fair number of those "E" bolts on my survivor 340 engine. In fact if you shop for "correct" engine bolts (coil, intake manfld, water pump, exhaust manifolds, carb to intake, etc.) you'll find that nearly ALL of them are incorrect when compared to all of the known original examples I have found.
Ken, do you know if your phosphate bolt was the front or rear mount bolt?
Also, I have seen a BIG variable in engine details from orange painted (Windsor) to the blue engines (Mound Road) the two engines were definitely detailed differently and likely used at least some different fastener vendors
Posted By: kentj340
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/18/13 06:32 AM
This photo clearly shows the S36 zinc dichromate (yellow – rainbow) finish on the bottom of the blue head bolt.
Posted By: kentj340
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/18/13 06:56 AM
No, sorry, I did not record which hole in the coil mount that the S2 bolt came out of. Those bolts were also some of the first removed from the car when I didn't know I needed to be as anal as I am now.
Yes, the manifold-to-head bolts on my blue engine are also maker's mark "E", but they were a size bigger than the coil mount, namely 3/8-16 x 1-5/8. I'll try to post a photo later.
One of my manifold bolts broke off, so the manifold is still stuck to a head. I think it was real close to the exhaust passage - I suppose the heat made it stick. Last time I looked at it, I'm guessing the manifold was factory drilled from the backside, because there is no straight shot to the hole with the carb riser in the way. Its going to be tough to drill out...
Posted By: 1972CudaV21
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/18/13 07:57 PM
My early 1972 340 engine came with "Anchor" markings on the bolt heads - for the coil retainer. When I ordered "correct" bolts, they sent me the ones with the "23" on the heads. I had the same issue with many other "correct" hardware items I purchased this summer. I'll just end up restoring my original hardware
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/18/13 09:04 PM
Yes I've seen those as well (the "23" bolts) just never on an original 340
Careful consideration needs to be given when talking about different years because hardware and assembly methods varied a lot (even within the same year) especially in 1971 when the engine plant changed fro Windsor to Mound Road (when the engines went from Orange to Blue paint). Ill be posting more pics of various bolts Ive found on my 71 survivor engine this week.
Posted By: 1972CudaV21
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/18/13 09:16 PM
Quote:
Yes I've seen those as well (the "23" bolts) just never on an original 340 Careful consideration needs to be given when talking about different years because hardware and assembly methods varied a lot (even within the same year) especially in 1971 when the engine plant changed fro Windsor to Mound Road (when the engines went from Orange to Blue paint). Ill be posting more pics of various bolts Ive found on my 71 survivor engine this week.
Oh, so moving the production to Mound Road was when the color changed? What date was that? My car was built 10/71. Yet, the casting date on my 340(original block)is 1/71.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/18/13 09:47 PM
As far as I know there is no known solid date on the engine plant switch but it was sometime in the spring of 1971 (likely March or April). Engine block castings often pre dated the cars build date by many months, yours is not untypical.
Posted By: bremotorsports
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/30/13 05:59 AM
Here are the original coil bracket mounting bolts, which have already been re-plated per the as-originally-installed finishes.
First up is the front bolt:
Bill Rolik
Posted By: bremotorsports
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/30/13 06:05 AM
And here is the rear bolt.
Both bolts are exactly the same in terms of dimensions.
The only possible reason I can come up with for the yellow zinc plated bolt to be in the rear position is the possible need (and I realize that this theory MAY be a bit out there) for a better grounding capability for the radio suppressor, which is mounted under this bolt.
Bill Rolik
Posted By: kentj340
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/30/13 07:00 AM
Anybody know what was the original bolt head for a 69 turquoise 340 left head-to-neg batt cable? I know it was 5/16-18, S36 zinc dichromate yellow-rainbow finish, but I don't know the length, washer details, nor maker's mark.
Could it have been identical to the S36 "E" bolt above?
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/30/13 07:06 AM
Quote:
Could it have been identical to the S36 "E" bolt above?
I don't know but that's what my original 71 340 has, unpainted bolt and cable.
Posted By: kentj340
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/30/13 07:55 AM
Thanks, Scott. And speaking of coils (other thread), my 69 340 coil (from a Hamtramck car delivered to Houston) was made in Canada. Never seen a Canadian repro offered...
Posted By: kentj340
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/30/13 08:16 AM
Here's the original stencil marks.
Posted By: kentj340
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/30/13 08:18 AM
Another, slightly rotated.
Posted By: kentj340
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/30/13 08:25 AM
And here's the totally anal question: What the heck is the meaning of a "10A" date code? The car was built November, 1968.
Could 10 be October and A stand for 1968?
Posted By: rck850
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/30/13 03:49 PM
Quote:
Anybody know what was the original bolt head for a 69 turquoise 340 left head-to-neg batt cable? I know it was 5/16-18, S36 zinc dichromate yellow-rainbow finish, but I don't know the length, washer details, nor maker's mark.
Could it have been identical to the S36 "E" bolt above?
Picture of bolt head. Might take longer for details
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/30/13 04:18 PM
That's exactly the same battery cable bolt my 71 340 has. (I need 4 of these bolts in black or plated...Anyone?)
The only confirmed original 340 coil I have handy (71 vintage) has a date of 330 and does not have the "Made in Canada" or the 10A, but that could have easily been wiped off over the years.
Posted By: rck850
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 11/30/13 05:03 PM
This Dart that I have has never been apart. I am the third titled owner. It came from Florida is a non udercoat car and in decent shape really. It is a running and driving car, although at this time I'd need to spend a weekend going over mechanicals before I'd leave the drive. I'm pretty sure that if someone needs a picture of something original from a 69 GTS 340 Dart I could get it. If it was not for a repaint in the early 80's I would call it a survivor. The stripe is original and was masked off during the repaint. I have the build sheet and fender tag and all the numbers match motor, trans, body.
Posted By: kentj340
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 12/01/13 12:35 AM
Picture of bolt head. Might take longer for details
Cool, thanks! I see blue paint on the cable, which means the bolt used to have blue paint on it also. Looks like there were three identical 5/16-18 x 5/8 "E" bolts on the 69 340: R rear head to firewall ground, L front head to neg batt ground, and rear bolt on coil strap.
On your 69 GTS 340 Dart, I'd love to see good photos of the distributor clamp and the distributor.
Distributor clamp: It's well established these were copper plated, but I strongly suspect they were black in appearance due to a chemical process (hot alkaline dip?) known as copper blackening. I've never found any discussion about black clamps. Is your clamp black colored or copper colored? Warning - the blackened surface may be very thin and easily removed down to copper plating by mild abrasive scrubbing.
Distributor body: Is it a black painted iron casting? What is on the aluminum tag, and were tags different for manual and auto transmissions? I'd like to see a good photo of an original 69 340 4-speed tag.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 12/01/13 12:56 AM
I can confirm that the clamps were copper clad then blackened. I have one that's about half worn to copper and another that's nearly all black. What I'd REALLY like to know is whether or not they were on the engine when it was painted, there may have been a year to year variable, as well and an engine plant variable such as when they went from orange to blue (Windsor to Mound Road) in late 1971. I have seen a pretty fair number with engine paint over spray, almost too many to write them all off as "day two" touch up over spray jobs.
Pic shows the clamps after I cleaned them up.
Posted By: FJR doc
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 12/01/13 01:36 AM
Here's a pic of my 1970 Duster 340 distributor clamp. The engine was never apart until I took it apart at 135,000 miles. You can see remnants of orange paint on it.
Posted By: kentj340
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 12/01/13 01:44 AM
Quote:
Here are the original coil bracket mounting bolts, which have already been re-plated per the as-originally-installed finishes.
First up is the front bolt:
Bill Rolik
Bill, what year, what color 340?
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 12/01/13 01:44 AM
FJR, what is the bolt head marking? Any chance that orange paint could have rubbed onto the clamp from a freshly painted engine? Does it have any spray speckling?
Posted By: FJR doc
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 12/01/13 02:25 AM
Scott, I can't tell from my pictures. I'll go out to the garage tomorrow and take a closer look in person.
Posted By: FJR doc
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 12/01/13 01:52 PM
Here are close ups of the little bit of paint left on my clamp. The bolt is marked "E" with 3 lines.
Posted By: FJR doc
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 12/01/13 01:53 PM
top
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 12/01/13 06:28 PM
FJR, yes it looks like over spray, albeit a very small amount. The head markings seem to have varied, the same bolts were likely used in other applications.
Speaking of that on the coil bolts, they were used elsewhere as well. My Federal Power Steering pump had this exact style bolt holding the reservoir can to the pump assembly.
Posted By: bremotorsports
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 12/01/13 08:25 PM
71 340 in my convertible.
BS27H1B344342
SPD 3/31/71
Blue Mound Rd. engine.
Bill Rolik
Posted By: FJR doc
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 12/11/13 01:59 AM
I cleaned my distributor clamp off of rust by soaking in Evaporust. Very little of of the original copper plating remained afterwards. Anybody have suggestions of how to duplicate the blackened appearance? I thought about gun bluing but just wanted to see if anybody has any other suggestions.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 12/11/13 02:04 AM
Try dipping it in Eastwood blackening solution and sealing it with something like RPM
Posted By: FJR doc
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 12/14/13 05:52 PM
I just cleaned up my coil bracket by soaking it in Evaporust. Looks to me like the bracket was originally dichromate finish. I can still see remnants of rainbow coloration. Am I correct?
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 12/14/13 06:12 PM
It doesn't sound correct, post some pictures.
Posted By: FJR doc
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 12/14/13 06:52 PM
Not the best pics but I the flash washed out some of the color.
Posted By: FJR doc
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 12/14/13 06:52 PM
and here:
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 12/14/13 07:29 PM
As far as the coil bracket goes I have seen enough variable to say that is likely original. Silver to gold colored plating finishes varied A LOT on most small plated components, likely due to vendor or manufacturing batch to batch variables.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 12/15/13 07:30 AM
Ok, you made me go digging. I hoarded these coils up over the years. These are both from 71 Small blocks, the one dated 330 is from an early 71 340, the other might be from a 318, I'm not sure. They are identical in every aspect except the date codes (which are also pretty close). One of the brackets had a gold finish and one has a bracket with a silver finish, these have never been apart and enough original plating is visible to confirm both as genuine.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 12/15/13 07:33 AM
Both of these have "Made in Canada" embossed in the tops. They are also quite a bit shorter than the other 69/70 coils I have.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 12/15/13 07:34 AM
Showing the two shorter coils next to two of the longer ones.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 12/15/13 07:36 AM
Notice how the date codes run across the coils on the short versions and lengthwise on the taller coils. Also notice the gap in the part# ink stamping on the taller coils which is not present on the short coils.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 12/15/13 07:37 AM
Last one
Posted By: 5carguy
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 01/11/14 10:22 PM
I would like to refresh this post for all the information that it is generating.
I would also like to add my engine to the others.
A little history of the car,
1971 Plymouth Cuda,Sassy grass Green 4 speed SPD feb 71
* means not original to engine
Engine color Orange
Block cast 8-30-70
Block assy info stamping CW340P34260406 assembled Dec 14,1970
Intake manifold cast date * 10-22-70
Waterneck 2780970
Oil pan stamped 294 no welded tabs
Temp sending unit stamped 250 date M1
Waterpump housing 2951698 Date 10-70
* Carb 4972S Date I 0
Heads J
That's all I have for now.
Can't figure out the date code on carb.
Thanks and hope this helps with the research,it is sure helping me.
Bob T.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 01/11/14 11:22 PM
Two items confuse me on that;
First the M1 temp sending unit sounds like December 1971, a year late?
The carb date code did not use an "I" because the skipped the letter "I" in the date coding. Post a pic of that one if you can. My guess is that it's an H or a J
Posted By: 5carguy
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 01/12/14 04:47 PM
The temp unit must have been replaced at one time.After a better inspection of the date code of carb it is J 0.The carb is not original to this engine.The engine had aluminum valve covers on it and I will be going back with OEM covers.A question,what did the OEM cover bolts look like?Pictures would be great.Thanks for your input.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 01/12/14 05:56 PM
There were various hardware vendors for engine bolts, I'm sure it varied year to year and assembly plant to assembly plant. Here is an example of an early 71 340. It is the only style I've seen from the Windsor plant on 71 340's.
Posted By: 5carguy
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 01/13/14 12:20 AM
Thanke You Scott for the picture,that helps a lot.I looked in my nut and bolt stash but couldn't find any.Anyone know where I can find a set?Also need oil pan bolts.
One more question,what is the carb date of J 0,and is it in the time frame for this assembled engine of Dec 14 70?
Thanks in advance
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 01/13/14 12:37 AM
Sorry, can't help you on the bolts. From what I've observed the correct bolts are not sold anywhere, you'll need to scrounge them off of similar vintage engines (not easy). Be forewarned, there various vendors on ebay and other places that sell "O.E." correct bolts and they have completely different markings. They may be right for some small blocks, some years, but when it comes to the original 70-71 340's I've seen, they are all wrong.
J = September 0 = 1970 = Perfectly acceptable on your December 14, 1970 assembled engine.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 01/13/14 12:52 AM
Oil pan bolt from a survivor 1971 340 assembled in September of 1970. Before removal:
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 01/13/14 12:53 AM
Since you can't see through road grime and corrosion I pulled one and bead blasted it, all have the same markings. Study closely, it's similar but NOT the same exact head markings as the valve cover bolts.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 01/13/14 12:54 AM
After I replaced it
Posted By: 5carguy
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 01/13/14 03:43 PM
Thank You again.I will continue my search for the right bolts.This is a fun project,and this post has helped me a lot.
Posted By: cdp
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 02/23/14 10:50 PM
Thought I'd add to this thread if anyone needs some more details.
A friend of mine just picked up a 55k mile June built 340 Roadrunner. Column shift auto with A/C. Snapped a few pics today of just the engine compartment. Can get more pics any time if needed for anyone interested in details.
Though I do thing the carb has been changed out, it appears mostly untouched.
Thanks
Chris
Posted By: cdp
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 02/23/14 10:51 PM
another pics..
Posted By: cdp
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 02/23/14 10:52 PM
it was kind of cold out, so I just snapped some basic pics.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 02/24/14 12:24 AM
That's great! We need more details on later 71 cars (blue engine). There were a TON of unique details when they went from orange (Windsor plant) to blue (Mound Road plant). Valve covers were different, intake castings looked different, engine paint details varied, air cleaner decal, etc. etc. WE NEED A BUNCH more detail on that one!
Posted By: cdp
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 02/24/14 01:09 AM
Scott, give me an idea what you want as far as details. I'll do the best I can given the condition of the car being together and knowing some components are hard to get to. I think the owner is keeping it for his collection, so access is easy.
thanks
Chris
Posted By: 5carguy
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 02/24/14 01:23 AM
Hey Chris,how about some random shots all around the engine.
Posted By: cdp
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 02/26/14 07:16 PM
not the greatest photographer.
Posted By: cdp
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 02/26/14 07:18 PM
another.
Posted By: cdp
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 02/26/14 07:19 PM
another
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 02/26/14 07:20 PM
Its probably going to require some (very delicate) cleaning to get what Id like to see (paint over spray details, small date codes, bolt head markings and plating colors, distributor clamp and surrounding paint details, etc.) maybe start with some good pics with the air cleaner removed.
Posted By: FJR doc
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 02/26/14 07:45 PM
I like the rare factory option of acorns in the air cleaner
Posted By: 5carguy
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 07/10/14 11:04 PM
I come back to this thread all the time for reference.There's some very good information here and if your into detail,this is it.Anyone have any more info?
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 07/10/14 11:07 PM
Ill be adding some more tid bits soon.
Posted By: 5carguy
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 07/10/14 11:30 PM
Great,thanks.
Posted By: FJR doc
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 07/11/14 12:43 AM
I have this thread bookmarked. I should be getting my engine components back from the machinist soon. This info will be invaluable when it comes time for me to put it back together.
Posted By: kentj340
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 08/05/15 04:30 AM
This thread seems to be for pre-'72 340s, as opposed to another similar one that is '72 up.
I removed my '69 340 vibration dampener recently and found the rubber inlay to be in bad shape. The 273, 318, and 340 all got the same dampener made with a cast iron hub and an outer cast iron circle with a rubber layer between. According to this link,
http://www.hbrepair.com/harmonic_balancer_001.htmthe purpose of a harmonic balancer or vibration dampener is to limit the amount of crankshaft twisting caused by power strokes.
I found 2 vendors that will renew the rubber inlay:
www.damperdoctor.comwww.hbrepair.com
Posted By: kentj340
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 08/05/15 04:41 AM
Here's photos of my crank pulley, 3 grooves for a 340 with A/C, same pulley as a 318 with A/C. There are no visible markings or part number anywhere on the pulley.
There were also 2 groove and 1 groove crank pulleys for with power steering and without. 273, 318, and 340 shared the same 1 and 2 groove crank pulleys.
This front groove is cast iron with rubber inlay, and the back 2 are spun from sheet metal.
Posted By: JRepucci
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 09/06/15 02:11 AM
Scott,
On a 1971 orange 340... What are the dimensions and head markings for the bolt that holds the idle solenoid to the intake manifold?
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 09/06/15 04:12 AM
Jason, it looks like this one, an "L" in a circle with 3 hash marks
Posted By: JRepucci
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 09/06/15 05:18 AM
Jason, it looks like this one, an "L" in a circle with 3 hash marks
Thanks Scott.
Does it have the "teeth" on the washer face like the hemi solenoid nuts?
Posted By: JRepucci
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 09/06/15 05:32 AM
Like this one?
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 09/06/15 07:20 AM
Yes, and has the teeth.
Posted By: JRepucci
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 10/27/15 01:42 AM
Lack of paint but good OE details of 71 340 N96 cuda
BS23H1B389999
Blue engine... some plue paint on the PCV valve grommet
throttle spring return bracket,
idle solenoid
transmission kick down,
shaker base plate supports,
solid pulley power steering pump,
exhaust manifold hardware
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Warning! Totally Anal Long Winded O.E. 340 Thread! - 10/27/15 03:46 PM
Yea, saw that rusted to death Cuda on abay....sad.