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440 problem
#328579
05/25/09 08:14 PM
05/25/09 08:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
OP
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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OP
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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A friend of mine has a 440. It falls falt at 5500. Background, .030 over 9:1 ish (.070 in the hole pistons), OTB E-heads (84cc), Fel-Pro's, 513 VooDoo cam, TTi headers (and 2.5 X-pipe exhaust), RPM intake Demon carb. He has swaped boxes, coils, distribs, cap/rotor carbs, fuel lines, pumps, went w/ roller rockers, swaped valve springs, you name it. It just will not pull above 5500 and is laying down a ton at the top end. Could the E-heads be causing the problems? He has a set of nice 906's he might try. If you need more info it's a 69 RR 727, 175k convert and 3.55's. So far the best he can do is 13.0 @100mph falling off.
He runs thru the pipes...could that be a problem??
Any ideas?
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Re: 440 problem
[Re: goldmember]
#328585
05/25/09 09:31 PM
05/25/09 09:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
OP
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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OP
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Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
If the tune is good,I'd look at a possible fuel delivery problem. Does the valvetrain make noise at say 5000 rpm? Although I've run lots of Harolds solid grinds I've seen and heard first hand that instability can be a problem with the Voodoo hyd cams. It could be basecircle runout or another cause,some work fine and others don't. You could install solid lifters as a test,I'd check for basecircle runout as well.It's not the heads causing the problem but details about the valvespring seat and open pressure is important.
yeah he's thinking about check w/ solid lifters. I should add hes a master mechanic and has build many many many BB and SB mopars and this is racking his brain.
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Re: 440 problem
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#328586
05/25/09 09:50 PM
05/25/09 09:50 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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recent problem or since built? He has a fuel psi gauge inside the car? Will it rev to the offending point(5500)in neutral?
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: 440 problem
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#328590
05/26/09 09:19 AM
05/26/09 09:19 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,068
Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
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Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,068
Irving, TX
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E-heads and 9:1? He needs BOOST!
That's the combo I'm running under my turbos. The Speed Pro 9:1 forged pistons measure out to 8.7:1 compression.
It's a decent setup. Just add PSI.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
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Re: 440 problem
[Re: RapidRobert]
#328591
05/26/09 09:42 AM
05/26/09 09:42 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
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Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Quote:
7.5lbs of pressure.
I'd think that would be his idle reading & he IS showing several psi or more @5500 going down the strip when it acts up?
He's fine all the way down the track... I'm just wondering if something happening in the chamber causing some flow issues???
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Re: 440 problem
[Re: feets]
#328592
05/26/09 09:43 AM
05/26/09 09:43 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
OP
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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OP
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
E-heads and 9:1? He needs BOOST!
That's the combo I'm running under my turbos. The Speed Pro 9:1 forged pistons measure out to 8.7:1 compression.
It's a decent setup. Just add PSI.
That's what I keep telling him.. I ran the speed pro's (cast) and 906's. car ran great w/ 6psi of boost.
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Re: 440 problem
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#328593
05/26/09 10:05 AM
05/26/09 10:05 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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If he has ~3 or 4 psi at the carb when it lays down the fuel delivery is good. describe the symptoms more, is it cutting out or just seems like it wont go any higher?. only in 3rd gear?
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: 440 problem
[Re: RapidRobert]
#328595
05/26/09 10:10 AM
05/26/09 10:10 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
OP
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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OP
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Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
If he has ~3 or 4 psi at the carb when it lays down the fuel delivery is good. describe the symptoms more, is it cutting out or just seems like it wont go any higher?. only in 3rd gear?
no he has to short shift 1st and 2nd. He says..."it just lays down" He has check and replaced, fuel system, electrical, valve springs and went w/ roller rockers. It has had the same issues each time. Could the heads be causing some flow problems in the chamber at 5500??? Even at 8.7:1 the thing should pull past 5500.
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Re: 440 problem
[Re: dOoC]
#328596
05/26/09 10:12 AM
05/26/09 10:12 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
He needs some big-time shaved closed-chambered IRON heads.
I think he's going w/ a set of shaved 906's and a steel shim head gasket...if that doesn't fix it I think he's going to yank it and find a new short block.
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Re: 440 problem
[Re: moparmojo]
#328598
05/26/09 11:42 AM
05/26/09 11:42 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,646
Ontario,Canada
firefighter3931
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,646
Ontario,Canada
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The rocker ratio could be affecting the valvetrain stability with those agressive lobes. Is he running a 1.6 rocker ratio by chance ?  Dulcich did a series of tests a few years back using an agressive flat tappet hyd cam with a 1.6 rocker and the engine wouldn't RPM. Dwayne @ PRH has observed the same thing during dyno testing....agressive flat tappet hyd cams and 1.6 rocker ratios nose over early ; usually several hundred rpm lower than with a 1.5 rocker.  Ron
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Re: 440 problem
[Re: firefighter3931]
#328600
05/26/09 11:56 AM
05/26/09 11:56 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
OP
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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OP
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Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
The rocker ratio could be affecting the valvetrain stability with those agressive lobes. Is he running a 1.6 rocker ratio by chance ?
Dulcich did a series of tests a few years back using an agressive flat tappet hyd cam with a 1.6 rocker and the engine wouldn't RPM.
Dwayne @ PRH has observed the same thing during dyno testing....agressive flat tappet hyd cams and 1.6 rocker ratios nose over early ; usually several hundred rpm lower than with a 1.5 rocker.
Ron
no 1.5's had stock 1st then rollers, same issues
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Re: 440 problem
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#328601
05/26/09 11:57 AM
05/26/09 11:57 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
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Quote:
So it acted the exact same with the summit cam? Summit cam is lower lift, 465/488 so I tend to think valvetrain stability is not the problem there but you never know. Will actually rev above 55 or just stop making power there?
From the way it sounds it just doesn't go anymore.
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Re: 440 problem
[Re: JohnRR]
#328605
05/26/09 12:18 PM
05/26/09 12:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
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Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
what's that convertor flashing to ? I haven't seen rave reviews on the MP convertors ...
I had one for over 3 years w/ zippy problems. Doubt it's a convert problem as they are usually a slipping problem.
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Re: 440 problem
[Re: firefighter3931]
#328606
05/26/09 12:23 PM
05/26/09 12:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
OP
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Here's a VooDoo cam thread ;
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...part=1&vc=1
Steve's comments on the first page :
"I could never get the Mopar Voodoo hydraulic cams to rpm. Tried everything, big and small block, cam swap to another brand fixed it."
Ron
no REV limit on the car...and he had the same problem w/ the 488 summit cam.
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Re: 440 problem
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#328607
05/26/09 12:52 PM
05/26/09 12:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,047
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,047
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Quote:
Here's a VooDoo cam thread ;
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...part=1&vc=1
Steve's comments on the first page :
"I could never get the Mopar Voodoo hydraulic cams to rpm. Tried everything, big and small block, cam swap to another brand fixed it."
Ron
no REV limit on the car...and he had the same problem w/ the 488 summit cam.
then it's only 1 or 3 things , the fuel system ... he changed it , the ignition system or the CONVERTOR ....
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Re: 440 problem
[Re: JohnRR]
#328609
05/26/09 01:17 PM
05/26/09 01:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
OP
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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OP
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Here's a VooDoo cam thread ;
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...part=1&vc=1
Steve's comments on the first page :
"I could never get the Mopar Voodoo hydraulic cams to rpm. Tried everything, big and small block, cam swap to another brand fixed it."
Ron
no REV limit on the car...and he had the same problem w/ the 488 summit cam.
then it's only 1 or 3 things , the fuel system ... he changed it , the ignition system or the CONVERTOR ....
John how is the converter going to make an engine fall flat at 5500 or any rpm? seems to me if it was bad it would fling to 6500 and not go anywhere.
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Re: 440 problem
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#328610
05/26/09 02:10 PM
05/26/09 02:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,047
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,047
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Here's a VooDoo cam thread ;
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...part=1&vc=1
Steve's comments on the first page :
"I could never get the Mopar Voodoo hydraulic cams to rpm. Tried everything, big and small block, cam swap to another brand fixed it."
Ron
no REV limit on the car...and he had the same problem w/ the 488 summit cam.
then it's only 1 or 3 things , the fuel system ... he changed it , the ignition system or the CONVERTOR ....
John how is the converter going to make an engine fall flat at 5500 or any rpm? seems to me if it was bad it would fling to 6500 and not go anywhere.
ok , nevermind on the convertor , maybe he should have put a 383 in it instead ?? 
what has been done with the ignition system and has he CONFIRMED fuel pressure at WOT ???
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Re: 440 problem
[Re: JohnRR]
#328611
05/26/09 02:20 PM
05/26/09 02:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
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Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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[ ok , nevermind on the convertor , maybe he should have put a 383 in it instead ?? what has been done with the ignition system and has he CONFIRMED fuel pressure at WOT ???
it was a 383 car...69 RR. yes ignition was swapped as well..and he put a gauge on the cowl for that reason, yes pressure is good all the way down track. Wonder if it could be an air flow problem??? Never asked if he's running it w/ a air cleaner or not.
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Re: 440 problem
[Re: JohnRR]
#328615
05/26/09 03:36 PM
05/26/09 03:36 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,825
Sk. Canada
RemCharger
master
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master
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Posts: 2,825
Sk. Canada
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Quote:
ok , nevermind on the convertor , maybe he should have put a 383 in it instead ??
 ...........  
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... then with Eddy alum heads ... 
