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New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
#1062340
08/24/11 06:31 PM
08/24/11 06:31 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
1969RR
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
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Hello all! I've posted about this build before, so some might remember my build info. I started this build earlier this summer, slowly getting pieces and parts together making sure I have the very best recipe for power. I'm sorry this is gonna be long, and if you could see my face...depressing! Anyway..the build. It is in a 1970 Challenger 99% street car. I started with a 440 block + .040 = 4.360. I bought the 440Source stroker kit for 512ci. -27 dish, -.010 below deck, ARP2000 bolts, V series main bearing, H series rods. Total seal file-to-fit rings. Block was line honed, new cam bearings, etc. Typical machine shop work done on block. I put engine together (no one to blame but me now). I have build engines since the 70's so I have done a few. I've put engines together with an impact gun that runs better than this 512! Anyway to the build, Measured everything. Mains .0025, rods: .002, rod side clearance: .020. No clearance issues with the crank or rods to the block. Ring gap may be a tad large. top: .024, second: .026. Meling HV oil pump, 6qt pan, windage tray. Cam is a Comp purchased from Indy Cyl. Gross lift: .511 duration: 246 @ .050 108.0 intake CL installed at 107. I did degree the cam and double checked myself, although still could be wrong, this was my first time to actually degree. I always just set up dot-to-dot. I followed instructions to the "T". INDY-EZ cyl heads, INDY black 1.5 rockers, INDY valve covers. Stock 6PAK set-up. Manton 9.500" pushrods. MSD Pro billet dist, MSD coil, MSD 6 box. FireCore wires, Champion C57YC plugs. Broke in at 2000RPMs for about 10mins, started initial tune......
I have initial timing at 16 all in by 3K total of 38 deg. I have adjusted timing numerous times, adjusted carbs numerous times. Engine is very hard to start, extended crank time, kicks back, back-fires thru carb. Finally get to start, runs "rough" and I hear a slight "rattling" noise. I have heard other engines with roller rockers make some noise too, so not too concerned abt that for now. I can rev to only about 5500rpm until it seems like that's all it's got. REV limiter at 7000RPM. So, I take it out for a test drive..NO power at all. I doubt if it would burn rubber! Seems like a slight miss out at light cruise.
I have taken out plugs. Might be a bit rich, Looked in chamber with a Snap-On bore scope, adjusted rockers ICE-EOI method 3 times! I'm LOST! If there was a Mopar only shop around, I'd pay what-ever to have this re-done so it's right! I'm embarrassed to give up, I thought I was better than this. Maybe someone might have a suggestion for me. Thanks guy's for even taking the time to read this!
Take care! Jeff
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: 1969RR]
#1062343
08/24/11 06:49 PM
08/24/11 06:49 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 527
alaska,usa
9secondsatellite
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 527
alaska,usa
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have you done a compression test or leak down test to see what you have? firing order correct and in right direction? check spark? how much advance is the dist. giving you? lots of questions/more info needed. when you degreed it, how close was it to dot-to-dot?
Last edited by 9secondsatellite; 08/24/11 06:50 PM.
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: 1969RR]
#1062344
08/24/11 06:56 PM
08/24/11 06:56 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,477
Canada
CrAzYMoPaRGuY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,477
Canada
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Any way to describe exactly how you degreed the cam? Do you have a cam card you can scan and post?
CrAzYMoPaRGuY
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: 9secondsatellite]
#1062346
08/24/11 06:58 PM
08/24/11 06:58 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 70
Murrieta, CA
BlownHemiCharger
member
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member
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 70
Murrieta, CA
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I had the same issues with a 440 I slammed together. Turned out I installed the cam 180 out!! Check into it. I did exactly what you are talking about. Also this is simple but I will but it out there are you spark plug wire in the proper location!!!! Probably, but worth a look!!
BlownHemiCharger was here!!
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: dennismopar73]
#1062347
08/24/11 07:31 PM
08/24/11 07:31 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
StealthWedge67
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
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Check TDC against the marks on the balancer. You could have a faulty or slipped balancer, and thus your timing could be way out of whack.
LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: BlownHemiCharger]
#1062348
08/24/11 07:34 PM
08/24/11 07:34 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,872
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,872
Weddington, N.C.
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 I'm doubting a stroker would even run at all with the cam 180 out, but I guess anything's possible. I would first verify your timing by indexing your dizz to #1 and probing the #1 spark plug hole to make sure you're at TDC and both valves are closed. Verify your firing order again, just like you were doing everything from scratch.....assume nothing is correct. Make sure you're cam doesn't have something unusual specified like a 4-7 swap and also it's key to know that timing for most strokers won't fall out of a tree if the initial timing is too low, most of my motors want around 22 initial and then a realitively slow centrifugal limited to 12-14 max. Too low a timing and the motor will run like warmed over crap no matter how good the parts are. Make sure you didn't suck a big slug of rust or dirt into your fuel line....if in doubt blow it out and verify free flow to the bowls. check your needle and seat that there's no debris there too. Pull the valve covers and turn it over, If I know it's all good I usually do the screwdriver to starter relay 'jumper' trick just so I can verify the valves and firing order, but it's better to slip a big wrench on the crank pullay and do it slowly by hand. Go slow and make 100% all valves are seating (if cam timing was bad off something could have hit) by rocking the arms at TDC...again assume nothing and that anything could be the culprit. Lash ands preload can still be a bear if you're out of practice....even if you know you know what you're doing.  try those things and then come back...we'll go to the next level from there.
Last edited by Streetwize; 08/24/11 07:36 PM.
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: dOc !]
#1062350
08/24/11 08:04 PM
08/24/11 08:04 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 833
MN
hemidup
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 833
MN
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Look for the easy things first as some of the above have mentioned. Also, is your distributor drive gear in the correct position?
Jerry Williams.
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: 9secondsatellite]
#1062352
08/24/11 08:50 PM
08/24/11 08:50 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,552
Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,552
Rittman Ohio
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I would start back to cam timing,dot to dot and set total to 32* That combo on pump gas with 38*is not ideal IMHO 34 should be max total advance with a base around 22 with around 10 advance and that should get you running good. Gus 
64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: dOc !]
#1062354
08/24/11 09:07 PM
08/24/11 09:07 PM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 469
Tennessee
steeldust
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 469
Tennessee
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Quote:
x 2 ...on checking cam-timing and dampner marks.
X 3 . I had a stock dampner that had moved and it was wrong and i would check the timing by ear and see if you don`t see some thing i run a ATI SUPER DAMPNER now and a MSD DISTRIBUTOR and gear drive and it is dead on. GOOD LUCK
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: 1969RR]
#1062355
08/24/11 09:25 PM
08/24/11 09:25 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,127
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,127
Bend,OR USA
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One quick wat to check cam timing is the old fashion way of looking at the rockers at TDC in the overlap stroke when the exhaust is closing and the intake is opening at TDC. It looks like you have a dial indicator and magnetic base so check the valve opening at TDC in the overlap to see if the valves are opening and closing close to the same amount at TDC, IE, exhaust is .045 from closing and the intake is .045 opened hieght  If there close (+ or- .015) you are close on the cam timing, if it is not then get out the rest of the tools and recheck the cam timing BTW, I have degreed more than one cam on the exhaust lobes and had to redo them when I realized that I had goof up   No one is perfect I have had cams be off on the dots by one tooth, that is about 12 degrees on a stock double roller timing set BB, they don't run worth a hoot when the cam is that far off They do sound ferousous(mean) in nuetral but don't pull worth a hoot in gear  Good luck, you can fix it, it is just a matter of figuring out what is wrong 512 make a hoop of power 
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: dcr]
#1062356
08/24/11 09:27 PM
08/24/11 09:27 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
1969RR
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
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Hi Everyone. Great suggestions. I'm going to do a compression test tomorrow. To answer some questions. The damper is new SFI and I did check it to TDC, right on zero. I have cranked the engine and watched valve train, all open and close as the should. I admit, may have valves too tight / too loose. I did 3/4 turn past zero lash. The response about using intake or exh lobe to degree cam has me thinking tho! I have the timing set with multiple key ways on the crank gear. I advanced that gear to the 2 deg advance key to the cam dot. The cam was at 109 dot-to-dot, so I advanced it 2 deg to be at 107. I have double/triple checked the firing order. Now, the dist drive gear. I dropped the drive gear in and then lined up plug wire #1 to start engine. I wouldn't think the gear placement would matter as long as #1 line up at TDC. I have tried advancing the dist untill the eng cranked hard, no difference. From the beginning, I have had the "rattling" type noise. Sounds like piston "slap" doesn't get any better after engine is warmed. IS this normal for roller rockers / alumn heads? Thanks again everyone! Jeff
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: 1969RR]
#1062357
08/24/11 09:32 PM
08/24/11 09:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,923
NC
440Jim
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,923
NC
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Sounds like a good solid set of parts. Definitely geared toward your application of 99% street.
Which version of the EZ heads did you buy?
The stock six pack intake and carbs will be a limitation, but pretty cool looking on a street car. Not a lot of duration for 500+ CID (4.360 x 4.250 = 507.6 CID), but OK for 99% street.
Being -27 dish, -.010 below deck, it will be mild on compression ratio. The rpm issue could be many things, including valve springs, what was the actual measured pressure on the seat and open? Don't expect much power higher in the rpm band with the combo you put together. Head restricted, intake, converter stall speed, headers? etc.
I second the suggestions to start rechecking all the basics.
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: RATTRAP]
#1062364
08/24/11 10:20 PM
08/24/11 10:20 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295
U.S.
moparniac
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295
U.S.
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I was wondering about the digitial box cause mine was pulling out 20* timing locked out which is too much! I unhooked it and starts good now...
Mopar Performance
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: RATTRAP]
#1062365
08/24/11 10:41 PM
08/24/11 10:41 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
1969RR
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
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Quote:
Is the msd a digital-6 ?
Yes it is. I had the Mopar electronic and orange box in at first. I just did install the MSD. It was doing the same with both ignition systems tho. What do you mean about the timing with this box? Might be onto something! Thanks, Jeff
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: moparniac]
#1062366
08/24/11 10:44 PM
08/24/11 10:44 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
1969RR
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
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Quote:
I was wondering about the digitial box cause mine was pulling out 20* timing locked out which is too much! I unhooked it and starts good now...
Hello, Please explain this to me. Thanks, Jeff
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: 1969RR]
#1062367
08/24/11 10:44 PM
08/24/11 10:44 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295
U.S.
moparniac
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295
U.S.
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if your at 16* initial and you have the start retard hooked up its pulling 20* out... my buddy sent his back to only pull out 10*, Im gonna prolly do that eventually!
Mopar Performance
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: Sport440]
#1062368
08/24/11 11:46 PM
08/24/11 11:46 PM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,328
St. Louis, MO
mopardamo
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,328
St. Louis, MO
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Quote:
Ive seen this alot. People stab in the distributer at the "SAME TDC" where the Cam was degreed at.
The CAM is degreed on the overlap cycle between the exhaust and intake. The Distributer is Timed on the Comp stroke TDC. Witch is 180* at the distributer. Ive seen engines Run and pop 180* off but never seen them Driven.
Definately check to see what TDC stroke cycle your distributer is fireing on number 1.
To test for that with the engine together. Pull the number one plug. Put your tumb over the hole. Bump the starter till you feel compression pulse of air. Stop and then rotate the crank to TDC.
Now check your distributers rotor to see what cylinder its pointing at.
Yep i'm guilty of this. Ran but ran very poor. Didn't make it much past the driveway.
Damon
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: mopardamo]
#1062369
08/25/11 12:01 AM
08/25/11 12:01 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,300
Northern Indiana
Dunnuck Racing
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,300
Northern Indiana
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I'm not sure which distributor you are running,but if you can,lock out the mechanical advance and bump the total timing back up to 35 or so and see if it helps.This would be after verifying everything else already stated. If that fixes it,you can go back and add in some mechanical advance and readjust a little at a time until you get it all dialed in Keith
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: 1969RR]
#1062370
08/25/11 12:20 AM
08/25/11 12:20 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,616
Riverside, Ca
G_bob
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,616
Riverside, Ca
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Quote:
Hi Everyone. Great suggestions. I'm going to do a compression test tomorrow. To answer some questions. The damper is new SFI and I did check it to TDC, right on zero. I have cranked the engine and watched valve train, all open and close as the should. I admit, may have valves too tight / too loose. I did 3/4 turn past zero lash. The response about using intake or exh lobe to degree cam has me thinking tho! I have the timing set with multiple key ways on the crank gear. I advanced that gear to the 2 deg advance key to the cam dot. The cam was at 109 dot-to-dot, so I advanced it 2 deg to be at 107. I have double/triple checked the firing order. Now, the dist drive gear. I dropped the drive gear in and then lined up plug wire #1 to start engine. I wouldn't think the gear placement would matter as long as #1 line up at TDC. I have tried advancing the dist untill the eng cranked hard, no difference. From the beginning, I have had the "rattling" type noise. Sounds like piston "slap" doesn't get any better after engine is warmed. IS this normal for roller rockers / alumn heads? Thanks again everyone! Jeff
We are talking a hydraulic cam here, right?
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: BlownHemiCharger]
#1062372
08/25/11 12:53 AM
08/25/11 12:53 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,699
Newport, Mi
Evil Spirit
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,699
Newport, Mi
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Quote:
I had the same issues with a 440 I slammed together. Turned out I installed the cam 180 out!! Check into it. I did exactly what you are talking about.
Just how do you manage to install the cam 180 out? You index the cam to the crank, and the distributor to the cam and TDC. Draw a line through the center of the crank and cam, and you line the dots (arrows, whatever) on that line. At this point it doesen't matter if the dot on the cam is at the top or bottom, as long as it's on the line. Turn the crank one full turn, put the crank dot on the line, and the cam will be on the line, too - again, either at the top or bottom, the opposite of what it was. It's either right both ways, or wrong both ways. Then you line up the crank on TDC, both #1 valves closed, and drop the dist (pump drive gear on a Mopar) with the rotor aimed at #1 on the cap, and the firing order to match the cam. You can have the dist 180 off, but not the CAM, and it won't run with the dist 180 off.
Free advice and worth every penny...
Factory trained Slinky rewinder.........
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: Evil Spirit]
#1062374
08/25/11 08:40 AM
08/25/11 08:40 AM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
1969RR
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
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Quote:
Quote:
I had the same issues with a 440 I slammed together. Turned out I installed the cam 180 out!! Check into it. I did exactly what you are talking about.
Just how do you manage to install the cam 180 out? You index the cam to the crank, and the distributor to the cam and TDC. Draw a line through the center of the crank and cam, and you line the dots (arrows, whatever) on that line. At this point it doesen't matter if the dot on the cam is at the top or bottom, as long as it's on the line. Turn the crank one full turn, put the crank dot on the line, and the cam will be on the line, too - again, either at the top or bottom, the opposite of what it was. It's either right both ways, or wrong both ways. Then you line up the crank on TDC, both #1 valves closed, and drop the dist (pump drive gear on a Mopar) with the rotor aimed at #1 on the cap, and the firing order to match the cam. You can have the dist 180 off, but not the CAM, and it won't run with the dist 180 off.
Good Morning everyone! I'm sure the cam is not 180 deg out. It would not run at all. I'm thinking it a tooth or 3 off from where I did the degree procedure. I've went over this build in my mind 100 times, that was the only part I wasn't 100% comfortable with. I don't think it has anything to do with the MSD, because it ran the same with the Mopar stuff. The box is a MSD Digital 6AL with rev limiter, MSD Pro Billet dist, Blaster SS coil. Wired up exactly per instructions.
The cam is hydraulic and is a 4 speed. I forgot that info!
I'm going to double check (again) all the simple stuff, then prob pull the cover. I've even thought of a solid cam. Any thought about the Mopar Purple # P4120659 528lift, 284 duration. Or, any other thoughts. Thanks again!! Jeff
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: Dart451]
#1062377
08/25/11 09:22 AM
08/25/11 09:22 AM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
1969RR
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
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Hey Guy's, I don't see any way I could have the MSD stuff wired wrong. Pretty simple plug and play. Pick-up wires plug directly into dist plug, red to bat +, blk to bat -, orange to coil +, small black to coil - plugs, white not used, grey to my tach. If this is wrong, please advise me how it is to be. Also, how to get a hold of Scott Brown for a cam recommendation? Thanks, Jeff
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: 1969RR]
#1062378
08/25/11 09:24 AM
08/25/11 09:24 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Does the damper have full 360 degrees on it... if so you can do a quick check on the cam with the damper... pull the drivers side valve cover and use a dial indicator on the retainer 
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1062379
08/25/11 09:29 AM
08/25/11 09:29 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
1_WILD_RT
Management Trainee
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Management Trainee
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
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When you set up the cam timing was the crank keyway straight up or was it offset to approximately the 1:30 position.... Stupid question but I've seen it do exactly what your dealing with four times...
"The Armies of our ancestors were lucky, in that they were not trailed by a second army of pencil pushers."
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: 1969RR]
#1062380
08/25/11 09:36 AM
08/25/11 09:36 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,976
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,976
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Hey guys, I'm sure I had crank at 12 cam at 12 o'clock when I stabbed the dist. I checked #1 at TDC, crank damp was lined up at zero and when I pulled dist cap, rotor was at #1. Would it even run 180 out? I'm leaning toward timing. Thanks, Jeff
You have it right , the engine doesn't care where you drop in the oil pump drive as long as the rotor is pointing at the tower your number 1 wire is on at the top of the compression stroke and the wires go in the right direction and order.
And NO the engine will not run if you are 180 out OR if you put the wires on in the wrong rotation direction.
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: JohnRR]
#1062381
08/25/11 09:54 AM
08/25/11 09:54 AM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,008
Sweet Home Alabama
MRMOPAR622
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,008
Sweet Home Alabama
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I will have to disagree on the placement of dist drive gear. I thought that also quite a few years back. If the slot is not line up straight (slot front-back)and the # 1 is not in the position it is called for on the dist. cap it will crank up and run but not right. I know you may not think this will help,but it will only take you a few mins. to try this. If anyone else is not running theirs timed this way,try it and if does not run better feel free to send me all the Hate mail you want. 
"To Be The Man'You Have Got To Beat The Man"
"T/D and Pro-Bracket Racer"
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: MRMOPAR622]
#1062382
08/25/11 10:07 AM
08/25/11 10:07 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
I will have to disagree on the placement of dist drive gear. I thought that also quite a few years back. If the slot is not line up straight (slot front-back)and the # 1 is not in the position it is called for on the dist. cap it will crank up and run but not right.
I know you may not think this will help,but it will only take you a few mins. to try this.
If anyone else is not running theirs timed this way,try it and if does not run better feel free to send me all the Hate mail you want.
You can point the rotor to ANY tower on the cap and
it'll run perfect if you start the firing order from
that point... I dont ever locate mine the way the
factory says... I point the rotor to #1 plug/cyl
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: MRMOPAR622]
#1062383
08/25/11 10:19 AM
08/25/11 10:19 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,763
Walton's Mountain, Pa
Steve1118
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,763
Walton's Mountain, Pa
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Going to have to disagree. With the cross rams we ran in the past, with a tach drive distributor, it was necessary to move the gear a tooth or two one way or the other so that the tach drive would clear the intake. As long as we moved the plug wires to match, it was fine.
This may sound stupid, but the main question, lack of revs...I'm assuming you have sufficient piston to valve clearance?
"Old age and treachery trumps youth and enthusiasm, every time!" East Central Director / Chrysler Power Magazine www.reasbeckracing.webs.com
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1062385
08/25/11 10:39 AM
08/25/11 10:39 AM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,041
michigan woods
imfixinmopars426
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,041
michigan woods
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Quote:
Quote:
I will have to disagree on the placement of dist drive gear. I thought that also quite a few years back. If the slot is not line up straight (slot front-back)and the # 1 is not in the position it is called for on the dist. cap it will crank up and run but not right.
I know you may not think this will help,but it will only take you a few mins. to try this.
If anyone else is not running theirs timed this way,try it and if does not run better feel free to send me all the Hate mail you want.
You can point the rotor to ANY tower on the cap and
it'll run perfect if you start the firing order from
that point... I dont ever locate mine the way the
factory says... I point the rotor to #1 plug/cyl
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: 1_WILD_RT]
#1062387
08/25/11 10:52 AM
08/25/11 10:52 AM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
1969RR
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
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Quote:
When you set up the cam timing was the crank keyway straight up or was it offset to approximately the 1:30 position.... Stupid question but I've seen it do exactly what your dealing with four times...
Hello! Crank key-way was at about 1:30 if I recall. Jeff
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: sixpackgut]
#1062392
08/25/11 12:57 PM
08/25/11 12:57 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295
U.S.
moparniac
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295
U.S.
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Wonder if he has the dial right on the digital box ...
Mopar Performance
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: sixpackgut]
#1062394
08/25/11 01:26 PM
08/25/11 01:26 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
sounds like the 6 and 8 spark plug wires mixed up to me
I would have said 5 and 7.. they're next to each other
and next in the firing... I've made this mistake
before when I was rushing to get to the lanes
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: B1MAXX]
#1062396
08/25/11 01:38 PM
08/25/11 01:38 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 8,094
Sunnyvale, CA
Jeepmon
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 8,094
Sunnyvale, CA
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Quote:
Valves are set too tight
That was my thought..
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: Dunnuck Racing]
#1062398
08/25/11 01:45 PM
08/25/11 01:45 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
I typed a very long P.M. and for some reason it did not go through.
Basically,it was just an offer for some help if you want it,I think you are down around Muncie?
I am close to South Bend. Just let me know,some sometimes it helps to just have someone else look at it with a fresh pair of eyes and ears especially when you are frustrated.
Keith
Isnt that the truth.... I've been there... and the more
I get frustrated the worse things get(and things
start getting broke  )
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: Jeepmon]
#1062400
08/25/11 01:52 PM
08/25/11 01:52 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,943
San Angelo, Texas, U.S.A.
1968RR
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,943
San Angelo, Texas, U.S.A.
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This sounds familiar...I had a similar problem a couple of years ago and it turned out that my timing chain had jumped during break-in. If you start losing teeth on your ring gear, this is your problem.
"When I'm in a slump, I comfort myself by saying if I believe in dinosaurs, then somewhere, they must be believing in me. And if they believe in me, then I can believe in me." - Mookie Wilson
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: 1968RR]
#1062401
08/25/11 01:58 PM
08/25/11 01:58 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295
U.S.
moparniac
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295
U.S.
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Double check the dial on your digital box and then make sure it's set to not pull out the 20* and see how it starts for ya! That may atleast help that issue.
Mopar Performance
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: 70blackfish]
#1062403
08/25/11 02:18 PM
08/25/11 02:18 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,074
detroit, mi
POS Dakota
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,074
detroit, mi
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Quote:
any up dates?
I know, I'm hooked on this one. I need to know what the deal was or it's going to bother me. 
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: Dunnuck Racing]
#1062404
08/25/11 02:25 PM
08/25/11 02:25 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
1969RR
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
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Hey everyone! Guy's I really appreciate all the help on this one. I have double/triple check'd TDC, where the rotor is at #1, plug wires are on the correct plugs, etc. I just did a compression test. Not good IMO. All plugs out, carb WOT, 150-160psi...I would think should be over 200 with my set-up. I'm thinking timing gears are not correct. I used the double roller timing set-up with the multiple crank way. I thought I installed it at 2deg advanced, but now, I'm almost positive I goofed up somewhere.
I just looked at the MSD wires again. At the plug at the MSD box, the tach wire is definitely grey or tan. I'm color blind on light colors.
Keith, you are a gentleman and a scholar! I really appreciate the offer and would make it worth your while! If I can't figure this out by checking the timing / degreeing, I'll take you up on the offer!
Again, thanks a bunch!! Jeff
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: 1969RR]
#1062405
08/25/11 02:51 PM
08/25/11 02:51 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,177
ill
dennismopar73
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,177
ill
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you always hope for the simple,,! work backwards, then find the solution, hope all goes great, sound like it ought to be great motor for you
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: MRMOPAR622]
#1062407
08/25/11 03:16 PM
08/25/11 03:16 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295
U.S.
moparniac
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295
U.S.
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? maybe....
Solid Core spark plug wires cannot be used with an MSD Ignition.
Mopar Performance
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: 1969RR]
#1062413
08/25/11 05:30 PM
08/25/11 05:30 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
Dodgem
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
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First you compression is about 10.25 so 150 to 160 is not that bad with a 246 deg cam. did you check you cam degree again after picking the +2 deg keyway? always check check recheck next 57s are way way too cold for that engine go with 61's or even 63's just go to your local parts store and grab a set of RC12YC and put in to try! you are sure your firing order is correct?? seen a guy swap 6 and 8 and is power was down 40% and they are so far appart in the firing order not mush ill effects just two cold holes! and of course 5 and 7 are easy to mix up! :-) On second thought you should be around 180 so maybe you cam is installed retarded??
Last edited by Dodgem; 08/25/11 05:39 PM.
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: Dodgem]
#1062414
08/25/11 07:25 PM
08/25/11 07:25 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,008
Sweet Home Alabama
MRMOPAR622
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,008
Sweet Home Alabama
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A temp. gun will tell you if you have a weak cylinder. If you have tried everything else and nothing has worked,it may be time to try and set your dist drive gear like it calls for. I had the same problem and that was the fix for me. Some times its the simple things that get you. I know everyone thinks I wrong but is it not a least worth a try?
"To Be The Man'You Have Got To Beat The Man"
"T/D and Pro-Bracket Racer"
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: 1969RR]
#1062416
08/25/11 09:06 PM
08/25/11 09:06 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 632
MD-USA
Dodgeguy101
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 632
MD-USA
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Quote:
Hello Everyone! Pulled front of engine apart this afternoon. I was hoping to find I had gears off. Well, according to my machine shop / engine builder, it is the way it should. I've attached a pix of the gears. We called Comp. The cam is a custom grind. They said on 7 1/2 CL. I kept comming up with about 8 1/2 so I advanced it 2 deg. You can see this on the gears. Now I'm kind of back to square one! We are gonna double ck this again tomorrow. I did double ck at TDC and I'm pointing at #1 on the dist. Firing order is correct. Checked 3 times with another set of eyes! I just can't see it being ignition related, because it ran the same with the Mopar ignition in it. Just very lazy, no power to get out of it's own way. Anyone ever heard of a cam doing this? Crank key wrong? I'm lost (again)! Take care, Jeff
Not sure who said it, too lazy to look, but now that you checked the cam, I would check lifter preload, valve adjustment. I would think even if only one carb was working it would still run okay. Did you check the gas like was suggested? I'm waiting to see what you find, interesting problem, hope I don't have the same one shortly.
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: 1969RR]
#1062418
08/25/11 09:10 PM
08/25/11 09:10 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 941
Texas, USA
ChrgrCuda
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 941
Texas, USA
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Really stupid questio, but is it possible the plugs could have become gas fouled upon your initial break-in? I had a crate motor that behaved exactly this way, finding out later that I had gas fouled the plugs on a fresh small block crate motor. Just a thought.
68 Cuda Notchback [Email]10.86@120[/Email]
69 Charger R/T 440/505
2009 Challenger SRT8
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: 9secondsatellite]
#1062423
08/25/11 10:46 PM
08/25/11 10:46 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
1969RR
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
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Quote:
did you re-degree it after you advanced it to make sure it only went 2 more degrees? i wouldn't assume that it was right. why not just put it back at "0" where you new it was at 8 1/2 like stated earlier and run it like that?
Hello, Yes, I did check a couple time to make sure I only went 2degs. If I am correct with my degree method and it is only 2 deg advanced from actual zero, straight dot to dot, I can't see that could possibly be causing my problem. I wouldn't think 2 deg one way or the other can cause this much problems. I have thought about moving it back to zero. I've also thought about getting another timing set and checking it against this one. Take care, Jeff
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: 1969RR]
#1062424
08/25/11 10:48 PM
08/25/11 10:48 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,667
Arizona
Chris'sBarracuda
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,667
Arizona
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Quote:
Quote:
did you re-degree it after you advanced it to make sure it only went 2 more degrees? i wouldn't assume that it was right. why not just put it back at "0" where you new it was at 8 1/2 like stated earlier and run it like that?
Hello, Yes, I did check a couple time to make sure I only went 2degs. If I am correct with my degree method and it is only 2 deg advanced from actual zero, straight dot to dot, I can't see that could possibly be causing my problem. I wouldn't think 2 deg one way or the other can cause this much problems. I have thought about moving it back to zero. I've also thought about getting another timing set and checking it against this one. Take care, Jeff
Move it and check compression..
Chris..
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: Dodgem]
#1062425
08/25/11 10:49 PM
08/25/11 10:49 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
1969RR
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
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Quote:
You still have to use the degree wheel properly zeroed. a solid lifter and your dial indicator to know where the cam is really fazed.
and those spark plugs are way too cold!
I tried another set, hotter, more of a race plug. Didn't help at all. Blacker than black after 20 mins of run time! For sure, not complete combustion. Jeff
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: BlownHemiCharger]
#1062426
08/25/11 10:50 PM
08/25/11 10:50 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,119
sc
tjmarcus1
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,119
sc
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Quote:
I had the same issues with a 440 I slammed together. Turned out I installed the cam 180 out!! Check into it. I did exactly what you are talking about. Also this is simple but I will but it out there are you spark plug wire in the proper location!!!! Probably, but worth a look!!
all cams are 180 out every other revolution!!!!!
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: 1969RR]
#1062427
08/25/11 10:58 PM
08/25/11 10:58 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,667
Arizona
Chris'sBarracuda
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,667
Arizona
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Quote:
Quote:
You still have to use the degree wheel properly zeroed. a solid lifter and your dial indicator to know where the cam is really fazed.
and those spark plugs are way too cold!
I tried another set, hotter, more of a race plug. Didn't help at all. Blacker than black after 20 mins of run time! For sure, not complete combustion. Jeff
That should tell you something..
Is it oil, or fuel??
Chris..
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: Chris'sBarracuda]
#1062428
08/25/11 11:03 PM
08/25/11 11:03 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
1969RR
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
You still have to use the degree wheel properly zeroed. a solid lifter and your dial indicator to know where the cam is really fazed.
and those spark plugs are way too cold!
I tried another set, hotter, more of a race plug. Didn't help at all. Blacker than black after 20 mins of run time! For sure, not complete combustion. Jeff
That should tell you something..
Is it oil, or fuel??
Chris..
Chris, wet with fuel for sure. I know its telling me something, but what??? I've tried everything, at least twice. Jeff
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: 1969RR]
#1062429
08/25/11 11:06 PM
08/25/11 11:06 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Hello Everyone! Pulled front of engine apart this afternoon. I was hoping to find I had gears off. Well, according to my machine shop / engine builder, it is the way it should. I've attached a pix of the gears. We called Comp. The cam is a custom grind. They said on 7 1/2 CL. I kept comming up with about 8 1/2 so I advanced it 2 deg. You can see this on the gears. Now I'm kind of back to square one! We are gonna double ck this again tomorrow. I did double ck at TDC and I'm pointing at #1 on the dist. Firing order is correct. Checked 3 times with another set of eyes! I just can't see it being ignition related, because it ran the same with the Mopar ignition in it. Just very lazy, no power to get out of it's own way. Anyone ever heard of a cam doing this? Crank key wrong? I'm lost (again)! Take care, Jeff
Since you have the front cover of use a degree wheel
on it... dont believe those dots ... get a real reading
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: 1969RR]
#1062430
08/25/11 11:22 PM
08/25/11 11:22 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,965
Apollo, PA.
B1MAXX
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,965
Apollo, PA.
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Quote:
Hey guys, NO way to swap dist wires. Will only plug in one way. Tried that. I have tried different plugs, 3 times actually. I had that on a small block Chev I did. I guess it is possible the lifter preload is too tight. First time I adjusted them using the ICE-EOI method I went 1/4 turn past no lash. I spin the pushrod between my fingers, when I feel it getting tight, I went 1/4 turn. This was initial start. After that I called 440Source asking about the rattle noise I'm hearing. He suggested going another 1/2 turn, which I did. No difference. Timing gears look correct to you guys? Car has fresh 93 octain gas in it with a bottle of booster. Thanks! Jeff
all you want is the lash out(I've seen people use the turn the pushrod method and take preload out of the lifter then add their additional turning, best to jiggle the pushrod to no lash) and put an 1/8 to 1/4 turn. It will be noisy. Hopefully you haven't wrecked the valves against the pistons already with too much preload. Leak-down will show that.
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: 1969RR]
#1062434
08/25/11 11:50 PM
08/25/11 11:50 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,667
Arizona
Chris'sBarracuda
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,667
Arizona
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
You still have to use the degree wheel properly zeroed. a solid lifter and your dial indicator to know where the cam is really fazed.
and those spark plugs are way too cold!
I tried another set, hotter, more of a race plug. Didn't help at all. Blacker than black after 20 mins of run time! For sure, not complete combustion. Jeff
That should tell you something..
Is it oil, or fuel??
Chris..
Chris, wet with fuel for sure. I know its telling me something, but what??? I've tried everything, at least twice. Jeff
This would lead me towards carbs or ignition..
Chris..
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: 1969RR]
#1062437
08/26/11 02:42 AM
08/26/11 02:42 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
67Charger
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
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Quote:
Hey guys, NO way to swap dist wires. Will only plug in one way. Tried that. I have tried different plugs, 3 times actually. I had that on a small block Chev I did. I guess it is possible the lifter preload is too tight. First time I adjusted them using the ICE-EOI method I went 1/4 turn past no lash. I spin the pushrod between my fingers, when I feel it getting tight, I went 1/4 turn. This was initial start. After that I called 440Source asking about the rattle noise I'm hearing. He suggested going another 1/2 turn, which I did. No difference. Timing gears look correct to you guys? Car has fresh 93 octain gas in it with a bottle of booster. Thanks! Jeff
I had to swap the purple/green wires. My 496 stroker did the same to me. You can simply cut and re-splice them, but if you are careful you can get them out of the plug and swap them like I did. I fought it to no end, thought the motor was going into valve float at 5500, horrible idle, bad kick-back, really down on power. It's DEFINITELY worth your time to try, and free too.
11.33 @ 118.46 on motor
10.75 @ 125.35 w/ a little spray
Now, high Speed Open Road Racing - Silver State Classic Challenge, Nevada Open Road Challenge, Big Bend Open Road Race
Rocky Mountain Race Week 2020, 2022 2.0, Sick Week 2023
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: Dodgeguy101]
#1062440
08/26/11 01:07 PM
08/26/11 01:07 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,965
Apollo, PA.
B1MAXX
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,965
Apollo, PA.
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Quote:
Good thing you guys aren't doctors, the patient would be dead already.
good one
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: 1969RR]
#1062441
08/26/11 01:50 PM
08/26/11 01:50 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
Dodgem
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
You still have to use the degree wheel properly zeroed. a solid lifter and your dial indicator to know where the cam is really fazed.
and those spark plugs are way too cold!
I tried another set, hotter, more of a race plug. Didn't help at all. Blacker than black after 20 mins of run time! For sure, not complete combustion. Jeff
You have C57YC plugs in now not much more race around that that these are for 13 to 14 to 1 compression.
I would try champions RC12YC get street plug.
I would borrow a know good carb.
I would re check cam degree "with a solid lifter!!!!"
Then I would check the spark
Then I would start backing the pre load off 1 turn at a time till it starts to tick on all cylinders. if it takes more than 1.5 turns probably your problem.
Just My
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: 1969RR]
#1062444
08/26/11 05:00 PM
08/26/11 05:00 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
Dodgem
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
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Thinking back to when my cam bolt cam loose and it was bending all the valves it was way down on power and black the spark plugs too?? just a thought. You should not need any more than 93 octane but cats like budgies too expensive but don't hurt the cat! :-) Your sure you don't need to try another carb?? And you are sure you don't have the pre load too tight???
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: Dodgeguy101]
#1062445
08/26/11 05:30 PM
08/26/11 05:30 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,245
Between a rock & a hard place
cudadoug
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,245
Between a rock & a hard place
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Quote:
Good thing you guys aren't doctors, the patient would be dead already.
Diet Pepsi RIGHT THROUGH THE NOSE!! That was FUNNY ! ! !
Back on point: 110 octane isn't going to solve your problem. No matter what octane, the motor appears to be dead rich.
But since the front of the motor is apart, PLEASE re-degree the cam with a SOLID lifter using the #1 INTAKE lifter bore. Run it...
"The plugs are the window to the motor's soul". It either has WAY too much fuel, or not enough spark. Since you've had the same results with two diff ignition boxes...try a different dizzy...or go over yours with a fine tooth comb to ensure all is well.
But the rattling noise you hear...?? That is a brain bender.
HURRY UP, will ya! I like a good mystery, but I can't wait to see it solved!
"Good thing you guys aren't doctors"...I'm STILL chuckling over that one...
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: viperblue72]
#1062447
08/26/11 05:51 PM
08/26/11 05:51 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
dOc !
The village idiot's idiot
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The village idiot's idiot
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
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Quote:
Is it possible Cam went flat on break in?
MAYbee and a good idea .....time to remove the oil-filter and cut it apart.
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: dOc !]
#1062448
08/26/11 10:42 PM
08/26/11 10:42 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
1969RR
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
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Hey guys. Seems like she's commin' out....again! Machine shop / engine builder friend came by again tonight. Eliminated fuel question. I ran a line straight from a 5 gal can of 110 octane. Pulled all plugs again. Loosened all rockers 1 full turn. Looked in chambers with bore scope thru plug holes. Doesn't look good. Looks like something was in there. Small indentations, almost like grains of sand or very small ball bearings. All we could see was the marks on the pistons, never found anything difinitive. Put plugs back in. Crank, crank, crank....forever to get to start. Never has fired right up like it should from the start. We think whatever is/was in there is causing problems. So, I started taking it out. I can't tell you how depressed and frustrated I am with this! Oh well! Practice makes perfect..and I'm getting good. I'll let ya know what I find when she comes apart. Thanks again guys, you are the greatest! Take care, Jeff
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: 1969RR]
#1062450
08/26/11 10:53 PM
08/26/11 10:53 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Hey guys. Seems like she's commin' out....again! Machine shop / engine builder friend came by again tonight. Eliminated fuel question. I ran a line straight from a 5 gal can of 110 octane. Pulled all plugs again. Loosened all rockers 1 full turn. Looked in chambers with bore scope thru plug holes. Doesn't look good. Looks like something was in there. Small indentations, almost like grains of sand or very small ball bearings. All we could see was the marks on the pistons, never found anything difinitive. Put plugs back in. Crank, crank, crank....forever to get to start. Never has fired right up like it should from the start. We think whatever is/was in there is causing problems. So, I started taking it out. I can't tell you how depressed and frustrated I am with this! Oh well! Practice makes perfect..and I'm getting good. I'll let ya know what I find when she comes apart. Thanks again guys, you are the greatest! Take care, Jeff
BUMMER
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: moparniac]
#1062451
08/26/11 11:00 PM
08/26/11 11:00 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
1969RR
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
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Quote:
Guess you found your rattling sound... You'll bounce back keep your head up
My machinist said the same thing! LOL Thanks! Jeff
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: 70blackfish]
#1062456
08/29/11 05:42 AM
08/29/11 05:42 AM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,231
State of retirement
52savoy
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,231
State of retirement
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I know the damage has been done...  but I waited and waited and no one mentioned putting an offset key in the crankshaft throws the timing marks off on the balancer. Add in another offset camshaft sprocket key and no telling where the timing will come out if you don't find the engine's true TDC with a degree wheel and dial inda(or pos. stop)... Could be where the damage came from if that was overlooked. I feel better..
Last edited by 52savoy; 08/30/11 11:18 AM.
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: 52savoy]
#1062457
08/30/11 08:25 PM
08/30/11 08:25 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
1969RR
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
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Hey everyone! Thought I'd give somewhat of an update. I pulled the engine again. Boy, I'm getting good at that! Anyway, when I pulled heads, I noticed an excessive amount of oil/fuel "gummy" stuff on the piston tops and the combustion chambers. Nothing foreign had got in there like we thought tho. No physical damage at all. Guess that's good. Got everything off engine except the rotating assy. When I spin the engine with a ratchet, I hear the "thunk" sound that is what I think I heard when it was running. More than one "thunk", multiple...If I put my hand on any piston and rotate the engine, I can feel the "thunk". I can rock the piston as it goes up and down. Pulled one (for now) measure it and it is 4.355" This is a 440 + .040, so .005 piston to wall. Too much?? Is the piston supposed to rock like that?? Remember, I'm using the 440Source 512 kit. Icon pistons. Also, seems like a lot of ring grind in oil. Oil is very "grey" in color and gritty. Bearing look like new. The rest is gonna come apart tomorrow. I just wish I could see something definitive! Still can't explain why no power either. Mystery! Thanks everyone! Jeff
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: 1969RR]
#1062458
08/30/11 08:59 PM
08/30/11 08:59 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 739
WA
JD Dart
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 739
WA
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Silly question but how far do the pistons come up measured from the deck mine are .010 down at TDC
best so far 8.53 @ 158.59 MPH 60'1.240
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: viperblue72]
#1062461
08/30/11 10:57 PM
08/30/11 10:57 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,544
Syracuse,NY
CompWedgeEngines
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,544
Syracuse,NY
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The " grey" oil is a pretty good indication of something...typical when a cam goes bad....there seems to be a lot of mysteries here....but I bet it will be something basic was missed on the build, in the end.....although it may not be admitted.... ....good luck to you though, and hope it gets fixed.
RIP Monte Smith
Your work is a reflection of yourself, autograph it with quality.
WD for Diamond Pistons,Sidewinder cylinder heads, Wiseco, K1 rods and cranks,BAM lifters, Morel lifters, Molnar Technologies, Harland Sharp, Pro Gear, Cometic, King Engine Bearings and many others.
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: CompWedgeEngines]
#1062462
08/30/11 11:01 PM
08/30/11 11:01 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
1969RR
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
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Quote:
The " grey" oil is a pretty good indication of something...typical when a cam goes bad....there seems to be a lot of mysteries here....but I bet it will be something basic was missed on the build, in the end.....although it may not be admitted.... ....good luck to you though, and hope it gets fixed.
Hello! There are NO wiped lobes on the cam. I checked lift on all. They are all the same. Still looking, and I will admit if it was a build mistake. Too many wanting to know on this one! Take care, Jeff
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: 1969RR]
#1062464
08/30/11 11:29 PM
08/30/11 11:29 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,177
ill
dennismopar73
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,177
ill
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well hes got 'grey' oil,? thunk 'in the motor when turned over by ratchet, and piston 'rockin in the bores' something amiss got to be some kind of bearing ,material, cam /crank /rod/, dead motor theat was hard to start, and no power when it did run, tear apart recheck everything, replace all the bearings, rings check and recheck of clearances , redo the timming if the 'machinest ' doesnt have quality in his pockets to determine the problem as to what happened, then find one who does, 
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: dennismopar73]
#1062465
08/30/11 11:40 PM
08/30/11 11:40 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,675
Akron, Ohio U.S.A.
roadhazard
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,675
Akron, Ohio U.S.A.
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Been following this and have to agree with Dennis. Would like to add CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN to Something is amiss and be glad it wasn't catastrofic. Take your time and find it. You have the power of Moparts with you 
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: roadhazard]
#1062466
08/30/11 11:48 PM
08/30/11 11:48 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
sixpackgut
Drag Week Mod Champion
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Drag Week Mod Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
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my 2nd guess will be there is something very wrong with the carbs dumping way to much fuel in the motor.
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram
performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: sixpackgut]
#1062468
08/31/11 12:05 AM
08/31/11 12:05 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
Sport440
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
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Quote:
my 2nd guess will be there is something very wrong with the carbs dumping way to much fuel in the motor.
This will be my second Guess too.
The Cam timing as installed, by the Pics shows that it withen fine range to run Great.
Your 155 psi Comp is fine and matching for the combo.
Your Black plugs are a tell telling sign. Your either getting a dump load of fuel from one of your new 6 pac carbs or not getting the spark you need to ignite it at the right time.
The grey oil is not good. It could be the results of cylinder wash down of excess fuel in the cylinders, maybe taking out your rings to half life or more.
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: 1969RR]
#1062469
08/31/11 12:18 AM
08/31/11 12:18 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
The " grey" oil is a pretty good indication of something...typical when a cam goes bad....there seems to be a lot of mysteries here....but I bet it will be something basic was missed on the build, in the end.....although it may not be admitted.... ....good luck to you though, and hope it gets fixed.
Hello! There are NO wiped lobes on the cam. I checked lift on all. They are all the same. Still looking, and I will admit if it was a build mistake. Too many wanting to know on this one! Take care, Jeff
Did you ever actually have a degree wheel on that
engine... I see you had a pic of the dot and 2 degrees
BUT did you have a wheel on it and actually measure it
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: Jeepmon]
#1062470
08/31/11 12:49 AM
08/31/11 12:49 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Speaking of a fresh set of eyes.. how are your eyes Mike? feeling better?
I only have issues with the left... it sucks right
now but it suppose to get better in a week or so
(hopefully)...
sorry for going off post to the OP
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1062471
08/31/11 12:20 PM
08/31/11 12:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
dogdays
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1062472
08/31/11 01:42 PM
08/31/11 01:42 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
1969RR
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The " grey" oil is a pretty good indication of something...typical when a cam goes bad....there seems to be a lot of mysteries here....but I bet it will be something basic was missed on the build, in the end.....although it may not be admitted.... ....good luck to you though, and hope it gets fixed.
Hello! There are NO wiped lobes on the cam. I checked lift on all. They are all the same. Still looking, and I will admit if it was a build mistake. Too many wanting to know on this one! Take care, Jeff
Did you ever actually have a degree wheel on that
engine... I see you had a pic of the dot and 2 degrees
BUT did you have a wheel on it and actually measure it
Mr. P, yes, I had degree wheel on twice, and again today to check. That is what I was really thinking was wrong. But, I now think it is correct. On to more checking! Jeff
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: 1969RR]
#1062475
08/31/11 02:26 PM
08/31/11 02:26 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
Dodgem
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
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Quote:
Mr. P, cam card says it is 108CL, when I checked I came up with 109, so I put in at 107. Jeff
and you degreed it with a solid lifter in place??
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: Dodgem]
#1062476
08/31/11 05:31 PM
08/31/11 05:31 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
1969RR
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
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Quote:
Quote:
Mr. P, cam card says it is 108CL, when I checked I came up with 109, so I put in at 107. Jeff
and you degreed it with a solid lifter in place??
Yup, solid lifter. I just checked 3 other intake lobes, all within .5 which probably is my eyes. Got engine torn completely down now. Only thing I see is some bearing wear. #3 & #5 rod bearings have a "scrape" mark, like something small scrapped material away. All the mains have some "shininess" as if some of the material was removed. For sure have seen worse. Still. no explanation to my problem. back to square one! Take care!! Jeff
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: 1969RR]
#1062477
08/31/11 05:48 PM
08/31/11 05:48 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
Dodgem
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
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looks like it was fuel and maybe ignition??
valves were not hitting??
yes all pistons rock short ones it's real noticeable.
Last edited by Dodgem; 08/31/11 05:50 PM.
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: Dodgem]
#1062478
08/31/11 06:14 PM
08/31/11 06:14 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
1969RR
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
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Quote:
looks like it was fuel and maybe ignition??
valves were not hitting??
yes all pistons rock short ones it's real noticeable.
Hello, I'm sure rockers were not too tight. I loosened them 1 turn and all started "clacking". No sign of anything hitting at all. I'm worried as to what caused the wear on the couple of bearings. I cut oil filter apart, found no shavings or any foreign material. I'm wondering fuel now myself. Maybe washed cylinders down. Could this ruin rings? Alot of "gummy, oily" on top of pistons, and low compression. What would you guy's do next? Punt??? LOL Thanks, Jeff
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: 1969RR]
#1062479
08/31/11 06:42 PM
08/31/11 06:42 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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I'm curious to what was making the little (we will call them ball bearing marks) in the heads and or cyl... you tried 2 ignition set ups didnt you... so your down to fuel... if it was bad fuel it would detonate and could leave marks... plus run BAD... how old was the fuel
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1062480
08/31/11 07:34 PM
08/31/11 07:34 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
1969RR
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
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Quote:
I'm curious to what was making the little (we will
call them ball bearing marks) in the heads and or cyl...
you tried 2 ignition set ups didnt you... so your down
to fuel... if it was bad fuel it would detonate and
could leave marks... plus run BAD... how old was the fuel
Hello, After I removed the heads, I found it was not dimples as we thought. We were looking in the cyls with a bore scope. I think we were seeing reflections off of the gooy stuff on the piston tops. Looked like a mixture of oil / gas goo. Wiped right off, piston looked like new. I have the engine all apart, and see nothing! No marks anywhere indicating anything hitting. Yes, I tried 2 ignition systems, no difference. Initial start was with the fuel in my tank. The tank was almost empty, so I put in 10 gals of 93 octane before I started the engine. Later, I hooked a hose directly to a 5 gal can of 110...NO difference. UNLESS, I washed the cyls down right from the get-go and caused my problems. Still hunting. Waiting now for the tech from 440Source to call me back. Thanks, Jeff
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: 1969RR]
#1062481
08/31/11 07:56 PM
08/31/11 07:56 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 614
Michigan
Get-X
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 614
Michigan
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So are you somewhat carb savvy? I ask this because all along I kept thinking you had a stuck float or a dirty/worn or sticky needle & seat and wondered if you could tell the difference? I can't tell you how many times people I know who are very smart sometimes overlook the simplest things. Then when you mention the "grey goo of death"  I really think you washed and wiped the rings.
'65 Belvedere
'68 GTX
'57 Dodge pickup
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: RalleyA12]
#1062483
08/31/11 10:23 PM
08/31/11 10:23 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
1969RR
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
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Quote:
Could the rings be installed upside down causing a compression loss ?
Nope, checked that too...Thought that myself. Jeff
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: 1969RR]
#1062484
08/31/11 11:41 PM
08/31/11 11:41 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
Von
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
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[quote Waiting now for the tech from 440Source to call me back.
Sorry, I just had to....
Did the motor show any signs of excessive blowby?
72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72.
Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: 1969RR]
#1062485
09/01/11 12:51 AM
09/01/11 12:51 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
Sport440
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
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Quote:
Hello all! I've So, I take it out for a test drive..NO power at all. I doubt if it would burn rubber! Seems like a slight miss out at light cruise.
I have taken out plugs. Might be a bit rich, Looked in chamber with a Snap-On bore scope, adjusted rockers ICE-EOI method 3 times Jeff
After reading all of your posts! IMO This is a bogus type thread You state above, you doubt if it will burn the tires
The combo as listed should rock. I think your mocking Moparts.  
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: Von]
#1062486
09/01/11 08:23 AM
09/01/11 08:23 AM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
1969RR
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
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Quote:
[quote Waiting now for the tech from 440Source to call me back.
Sorry, I just had to....
Did the motor show any signs of excessive blowby?
Thurs morn......and, I'm still waiting! LOL.. Maybe they'll call today, ya think?? Yes, I did have some..I could feel slight "puff" out of the valve cover breather ports. Jeff
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: Sport440]
#1062487
09/01/11 08:26 AM
09/01/11 08:26 AM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
1969RR
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
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Quote:
Quote:
Hello all! I've So, I take it out for a test drive..NO power at all. I doubt if it would burn rubber! Seems like a slight miss out at light cruise.
I have taken out plugs. Might be a bit rich, Looked in chamber with a Snap-On bore scope, adjusted rockers ICE-EOI method 3 times Jeff
After reading all of your posts! IMO This is a bogus type thread You state above, you doubt if it will burn the tires
The combo as listed should rock. I think your mocking Moparts.
DO WHAT? Not mocking anything, just seeking advise! Jeff
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: 1969RR]
#1062488
09/01/11 09:45 AM
09/01/11 09:45 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,976
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,976
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Waiting now for the tech from 440Source to call me back.
Sorry, I just had to....
Did the motor show any signs of excessive blowby?
Thurs morn......and, I'm still waiting! LOL.. Maybe they'll call today, ya think?? Yes, I did have some..I could feel slight "puff" out of the valve cover breather ports. Jeff
Well it was only 4am ish there , what are you expecting to get out of a conversation with them ??
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: 1969RR]
#1062489
09/01/11 10:04 AM
09/01/11 10:04 AM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 690
New Hampshire, USA
oldiron
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 690
New Hampshire, USA
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Just a thought, blocked exhaust will cause the same problem. Old double wrapped pipes would sometimes buckle on the inside and not be visible on the outside - try running w/o exhaust if you had one on for your street test
66 Belvedere Vert, 4 Speed/Jerico, slowly, very slowly, getting faster - NA LD Wedge New New Best: 10.56 @129 68 B'cuda 4 gear Jerico - Another New Best of 9.86 & Trying to slow up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4jDLKwd9Gs
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: RTSrunner]
#1062492
09/01/11 12:22 PM
09/01/11 12:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,976
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,976
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Was a leak down and/or a compression test done before the engine was disassembled ?A leak down test would sure help with a direction to go,be it rings,valves or gasket issues.Leaking rings may not look bad to the eye.
he did a compression test , think it read 155psi ?
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: FastmOp]
#1062498
09/01/11 04:53 PM
09/01/11 04:53 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,141
junction city oregon
viperblue72
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,141
junction city oregon
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Quote:
Looks to me like you just don't know what your doing. Either pay someone or sell it. Your over your head.
Fastmop! Is your name Dick?
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: 1969RR]
#1062500
09/01/11 07:26 PM
09/01/11 07:26 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,966
Wendy, I'm home.
dstryr
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,966
Wendy, I'm home.
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I have gone through a very similar situation with my new 505" 440, 10.2 compression, XS290 solid cam, Stealth heads and basically original 6bbl setup. A couple of years ago I put the Promax metering blocks/plates in all 3 carbs on the original motor in anticipation of my new motor being done. I wanted to be sure they ran ok before putting them on my new motor and if I had trouble didn't want to troubleshoot any unknowns. The original engine is/was pretty tired and the ran same with the promax stuff as it did with bone stock carbs. I've had 'em apart, shot carb cleaner through all the ports, new gaskets, etc. The new motor went in and was fouling plugs, even the hottest plugs I could find. It wasn't performing any better than the stock motor, and probably worse. No good, so I asked for some help and a racer not too far away dug into the carbs. The culprit- the center carb with the Promax metering block dumping fuel. What happened in the last couple of summers of driving? Who knows... He pulled the Promax block out and slapped the stock one back in, adjusted the outboards and now its running like it dyno'd - 590hp & 650tq. I just drove it home last night.   Hope you find your solution soon.
dstryr, since 1986.
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: Sport440]
#1062501
09/01/11 08:35 PM
09/01/11 08:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
Sport440
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
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Quote:
}Your either getting a dump load of fuel from one of your new 6 pac carbs{
or not getting the spark you need to ignite it at the right time.
The grey oil is not good. It could be the results of cylinder wash down of excess fuel in the cylinders, maybe taking out your rings to half life or more.
That was one of my earlier thoughts too
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: Exit1965]
#1062504
09/04/11 10:24 PM
09/04/11 10:24 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 266
iowa
rook440
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 266
iowa
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: 1969RR]
#1062506
09/09/11 06:41 PM
09/09/11 06:41 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 635
mississippi
bentwheel43
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 635
mississippi
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I think it may be the timing set,9key the timing mite be off.I had a 3 key and I had helll.I got a gear set on may 440source 512rb kit and used a 2* bushing.~~Bentwheel43
Last edited by bentwheel43; 09/09/11 06:44 PM.
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: 70blackfish]
#1062508
09/13/11 05:21 PM
09/13/11 05:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,976
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,976
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Dyno that motor after build...
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: bentwheel43]
#1062512
10/04/11 12:53 AM
10/04/11 12:53 AM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 417
reynoldsburg,ohio
poppaj
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 417
reynoldsburg,ohio
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Sounds like a cylinder wall finish problem to me.
AA/NSS 65'Coronet "Whompin Wedge"
Pop & Son Performance 557" B-1 power
John Holt Chassis
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: poppaj]
#1062513
10/04/11 02:01 PM
10/04/11 02:01 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
1969RR
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
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Quote:
Sounds like a cylinder wall finish problem to me.
Hey everyone! Haven't really had any news to post on this issue..until the last couple days. Poppaj, you have hit it on the head. Well, partly. I also found (well, the machine shop found) that the cam bearing journal was off. #2 off .002". Ate all the cam bearings, #2 completely destroyed. Found some metal embedded in 4 rod bearings. Don't know who's at fault?? I didn't do the machine work...I guess ME, I put the engine together. Anyway, I ruled out using this block. As, poppaj stated, the cyl wall finish was not to my liking. Just felt rough...So, I bought a different finished block. Figured if I had to re-bore my old one and buy new pistons, re-balance I'd just be better off getting a different block. New block looks great. The cyl walls look and feel very nice. Cam journals all perfect. All measurements coming out perfect. After doing a lot of reading (Muscle Motors has a great article about this) I found out after the fact that big block Mopars have issues in the cam journal area. Cost me some $$ to find this out! Anyway, going back together again! At the cam degreeing stage now. Thanks everyone! Jeff
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: Performance Only]
#1062517
10/04/11 09:20 PM
10/04/11 09:20 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
1969RR
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 740
Anderson, IN
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Quote:
Quote:
After doing a lot of reading (Muscle Motors has a great article about this) I found out after the fact that big block Mopars have issues in the cam journal area. Cost me some $$ to find this out!
just a little food for thought, keep in mind that all of the old Mopar engines were running engines before and they didn't eat up cams or bearings. what do you suppose has changed since it was torn down and built back up as a performance combo? i would say very little. granted it's not uncommon for the cam bearing bores to be a little undersized, but with minor clearancing of the offending bearing it's not usually a big issue. anyway, like i said, food for thought.
My thought too. Why was the #2 .002" too tight? After all, it must have ran before. But with the new bearings, it was too tight. I didn't know about making a "cutter" out of an old cam. Just seems like a bad fix for a worse cause! New one's fit perfect. Hopefully will be running soon. Take care, Jeff
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: 1969RR]
#1062518
10/05/11 09:02 AM
10/05/11 09:02 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,976
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,976
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
After doing a lot of reading (Muscle Motors has a great article about this) I found out after the fact that big block Mopars have issues in the cam journal area. Cost me some $$ to find this out!
just a little food for thought, keep in mind that all of the old Mopar engines were running engines before and they didn't eat up cams or bearings. what do you suppose has changed since it was torn down and built back up as a performance combo? i would say very little. granted it's not uncommon for the cam bearing bores to be a little undersized, but with minor clearancing of the offending bearing it's not usually a big issue. anyway, like i said, food for thought.
My thought too. Why was the #2 .002" too tight? After all, it must have ran before. But with the new bearings, it was too tight. I didn't know about making a "cutter" out of an old cam. Just seems like a bad fix for a worse cause! New one's fit perfect. Hopefully will be running soon. Take care, Jeff
The factory did the same thing , clearance the bearing , they were only concerned with the engine living past the warranty period .
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Re: New 512 stroker build, ZERO power!
[Re: 1969RR]
#1062519
10/05/11 02:36 PM
10/05/11 02:36 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,127
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,127
Bend,OR USA
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Last edited by Cab_Burge; 10/05/11 02:37 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Usually the KISS Pyrotechnic show out of your carb is a good indication 
Very hard to find those errors without degreeing the cam to start with 
) the same amount the intake is advanced or if both lobes are straight up if I'm installing the cam straight up 
They should have been in at 110 BTDC 
