first, I'm steering away from the 3 link, I just think with the power im running and knowing that i'll probably take it to a drag strip once or twice, i feel it's better to go with a 4 link, distribute out the power better.
That is a false interpretation of use. Four links does not allow you to put more power through them than three links simply because of the extra rod. A prefab parallel four link will allow much more tuning for instant centers related to accelerating, but any prefab unit have the potential for binding and lack adjustments that would be beneficial to cornering whereas a three link allows greater articulation during body roll.
Hotchkis does have some very nice products and results out there for sure. But it's mostly plug and play, not sure where you're getting that the hotchis kits have more adjustibility , if anything its about equal or even behind the aftermarket coil over kits, at least in the case of the Gerst stuff. I wanna tune and play with stuff. For example, I ordered my Gerst kit with both stock height spindles and 2 inch drop spindles and this winter, I'm ordering springs from vikings to play with spring changes, planning on springs from 250 to 450 in 50 lb steps. it's not gonna be exactly cheap to get all those spring sets but i added it up, it's still gonna be cheaper than multiple torsion bars, by about 50% per pair. So if I do go coil over on the rear(99% sure I am), i'll be able to get all 4 springs for the cost of 1 set of torsion bars. that are a tad harder to change out at the track. Plus Hotchkis doesnt sell Torsion bars for A bodies.
Not to be argumentative, but it sounds like you're throwing stuff at the tarmac to see what sticks. You should be able to calculate your needed spring rates to be within a 100-150# of optimal without ever buying a spring, then pick up the 50# variation to dial in to your specific preferences. See a topic further below in this forum on formulas for handling and recommendations for reading.
Additionally, changing ride height via either spring position or drop spindles can also be done on the stock mopar stuff. T-bars can be turned up and down and drop spindles are out there. You are spending a lot of coin to gain no more adjustability than the stock mopar stuff and actually may have less adjustability because of the base components used. Mopar based ball joints have been used in the oval track world for decades because of their robustness and easily changed design. This means that are a broader range of units out there with varying geometric differences to achieve different results, differing materials to reduce friction, even rebuildable units. I don't think such parts exists in the M2 based components used in most coil over kits.
Perhaps you glossed over my previous post to tell me about panhard tuning and missed that I pointed out no aftermarket system allows you to alter suspension pick up points in a manner like the stock system does. You can achieve adjustability with the stock set up using stock components. Taller, shorter, and drop spindles can all be utilized in OEM form. Changing pivot centers with ball joints is possible. Altering arcs of motion with spacers and adjusting rods can be done. All adjustments that will change intersecting points of the geometry.
The biggest advantages I see of an aftermarket coil over system are possibly lighter weigh, although since Gesrt uses .25 wall everywhere, that weight loss may not materialize with their unit, and cheap(er) springs. They all tend to have turning radius issues as well because of rack width limitations, and in my opinion, offer less adjustability than stock.
There also is all the rules issues fitting an aftermarket unit into a particular class will entail. This alone would make a good argument for the Hotchkis system.
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I suppose since you already ordered it, its your burden to make it work within the framework of your expectations. Please keep us advised on how it goes.
Oh dont worry, you're no being argumentative at all. I asked for opinions, I was expecting multiple view points.
I do understand the 3 link vs 4 link differences, pros/cons etc. I do have to disagree about the extra rod/strength of a 4 link, but we'll leave it there. I'm pretty set on the 4 link but I did look into 3 links, seems to do it right, I'd have to ditch the rear seat and modify the floor pan in the duster, both of which I'm willing to do. I crawled under and measured last night, even off set, I'd only behind to fit an 8 inch top link, if i located the pivot point/mounting point on the axle to being behind the axle centerline, I'd only gain about 1.5 inches before running into clearance issues. So for packaging, without extensive chassis mods, the 3 link just wont fit. So 4 link it is, that leaves parallel, which yes will bind more than a 3 link, but less than a triangulated. And it wont require me to modify the rear passenger compartment. I may change my mind down the road but for now, that's where i'm at.
as for the point you brought up about the pick up points. I didnt gloss over it, just didn't want to comment until I fully researched it. Everything you mentioned that can be raised or lowered on the OEM can be done with the Gerst and Im fairly sure with RMS,Hemidenny or the others that use Mustang II spindles. Just like the OEM, you can get taller or shorter height spindles both in stock ride heigth and 2 inch drop form. I know Wilwood makes them, Ron sutton sells them. You can even get Mustang II spindles with shorter or longer snouts and bigger bearings, different degrees etc. You can even get Mustang II spindles with custom length steering arm attachment points. So how would the Gerst not facilitate this change? It'd be no different than swapping in similar spindles in an OEM platform, it'd change the angles the same way.
As for the upper control arm mounting, I'm assuming you mean the points where the arm connects to the frame? the Gerst and from what I've seen, all the other aftermarket kit use the same upper control arm mounting points as the OEM. Gerst upper control arms like many aftermarket uppers are adjustable. So I'm not following on how you can adjust the non-adjustable OEM arms mounting points and not be able to adjust the mounting points of the aftermarket ones the same way?
also, if the Gerst uppers are designed in a way to gain camber much like say Hotchkis, that's a mute point between the 2 there as well. I know the factory Arms have an issue with negative camber.
As for taller ball joints and offset center ball joints, I've emailed Gerst to confirm, but from what Ive found, assuming he uses a common ball joint size, you can get pretty much any aftermarket/racing ball joint you can imagine. Taller, off center, rebuildable, adjustable ball joints all seem to be sold.
***Edit*** just got a response from Carl Gerst, says it comes with a QA1 rebuildable Mopar Ball joint that has an extended stud. So based on that, any mopar ball joint you can get, you can use. Although he did mention that he runs the tallest available mopar ball joint so all you could do is go shorter.
Also, since the gerst kit claims to be adjustable on the track width, and both control arms are adjustable, wouldnt that also change the intersect points, as well or am I wrong on that?
as far as turning radius, I'll have to let you know on that one when i get it in the car. I'll try to take measurements off the stock setup before I take it out if i remember too.
As to the throwing what sticks and seeing what works, yes I am. It's not from lack of knowledge, its just I have several theories I want to try out and play with. I'm divorced, no kids, no other bills than utilities so I have the money to experiment around and try things out. I'll run a base line with the suspension set to the recommendations from Gerst, then experiment from there. The local road course charges 500 a day rental fee, 7 am to Dusk so I'll rent it for a couple days and play around. That, or they run open test days for 50 bucks, as many laps as you can. They do that i think twice a month
As for the weight savings, from what ive read on other reviews and the Gerst website, it's about 30-75 lbs depending on the car and whether or not you orginally had power steering.
So with all this in mind, I'm still not grasping how you're saying you can only change those things in an OEM component suspension but not an aftermarket????
