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Hemi Oil Pump
#829788
10/14/10 06:41 PM
10/14/10 06:41 PM
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,212
QLD Australia
Keith Black®
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I need help to get the right pump cover & hope someone I have a World aluminum block which has the pickup plumbed directly into the block. I will use this for the single feed external line from the sump/pickup to the block. I want to run an Remote Oil Filter, so which pump cover should I use? I have the Milodon 21815 pump.? I want to retain the original engine mounts (Hemi/B-Body). Hope someone can help.! 
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Darren Beale
Keith Black Racing Engines®
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Re: Hemi Oil Pump
[Re: Keith Black®]
#829789
10/14/10 06:42 PM
10/14/10 06:42 PM
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Posts: 1,212
QLD Australia
Keith Black®
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whoops typo.. *hope someone can help!
pic of pump:
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Darren Beale
Keith Black Racing Engines®
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Re: Hemi Oil Pump
[Re: Keith Black®]
#829792
10/14/10 07:48 PM
10/14/10 07:48 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
Mopar_Rich
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Geeeze Darren, you just have to send me an email...
With the 21185 pump you use the 21220 or the 21230 cover. The 21220 has the second inlet from the back, and the 21230 has the second inlet from the side or the back, but the covers are interchangeable.
Remember the intermediate shaft is different with the pump.
You would use 21503 for a steel gear and 21523 for the bronze gear.
The remote filter fittings are -10 o-ring on the cover and -10 or -12 AN male for the lines. The covers do not include the fittings.
Last edited by Mopar_Rich; 10/14/10 07:56 PM.
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Re: Hemi Oil Pump
[Re: Mopar_Rich]
#829793
10/14/10 09:52 PM
10/14/10 09:52 PM
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Keith Black®
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thanks Rich  . It looks like the #21230 is the best option, as it relates to retaining existing engine mounts. the pickup line from the pan goes to the front of the pump (the pickup hole at the front of the engine block is to be blocked off, as is the pickup flange inside the crankcase). It would be useful to see a picture of filter out/in if someone has one with the #21230. Drive gear noted, will need the bronze one. I'll make a trip to Earl's for the fittings. At least we have one of those stores in Australia not much else when it comes to Hemi's. 
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Darren Beale
Keith Black Racing Engines®
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Re: Hemi Oil Pump
[Re: Mopar_Rich]
#829795
10/14/10 10:49 PM
10/14/10 10:49 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,752
detroit area
moderncylinder
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if you look at the pump, it has no provision to pickup any oil from the mounting surface on the block which is why i said you cant use the hole in the block,, that pump will actually block it all off just bolting the pump on,, id block off the external hole but the internal hole is no big deal. put a plug in the one you dont use on either the cover or pump, though id use the one on the pump,, i think its easier to fill the rotors comming from the back side,, ive tried both with a single line to 9000 rpm and seen no differnce in oil pressures
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Re: Hemi Oil Pump
[Re: Keith Black®]
#829796
10/14/10 10:56 PM
10/14/10 10:56 PM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,056
Mt.Vernon IL
Twin Turbo Mower
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Quote:
whoops typo.. *hope someone can help!
pic of pump:
If you want only 1 oil feedline you can run a stock pump cover with that pump. Which is what I use on my dart.
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Re: Hemi Oil Pump
[Re: moderncylinder]
#829798
10/15/10 12:59 AM
10/15/10 12:59 AM
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QLD Australia
Keith Black®
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Quote:
if you look at the pump, it has no provision to pickup any oil from the mounting surface on the block which is why i said you cant use the hole in the block,, that pump will actually block it all off just bolting the pump on,, id block off the external hole but the internal hole is no big deal. put a plug in the one you dont use on either the cover or pump, though id use the one on the pump,, i think its easier to fill the rotors comming from the back side,, ive tried both with a single line to 9000 rpm and seen no difference in oil pressures
So with the right cover I could feed the external line coming from the Pan into the rear of the pump (and block off the 2-front inlets one being in the pump itself and the other in the front of the block which will be blocked anyway with this pump) Correct ..??
If this is the case that'd be a clean install & the best for my application.
I assume in/out ports for the remote filter are thosee two ports on the front-leading edge of the pump cover?
Rich ...I think that'd be either of both of pump cover #21210 or #21200 ??
Darren
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Darren Beale
Keith Black Racing Engines®
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Re: Hemi Oil Pump
[Re: Keith Black®]
#829799
10/15/10 01:15 AM
10/15/10 01:15 AM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,056
Mt.Vernon IL
Twin Turbo Mower
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I run a stock cover with the milodon pump you have pictured up top, and I thought summit sold a kit that worked with a stock cover. I could be wrong.
Last edited by Twin Turbo Mower; 10/15/10 01:19 AM.
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Re: Hemi Oil Pump
[Re: AndyF]
#829802
10/15/10 01:26 AM
10/15/10 01:26 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,036
Oregon
AndyF
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Re: Hemi Oil Pump
[Re: AndyF]
#829803
10/15/10 01:28 AM
10/15/10 01:28 AM
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QLD Australia
Keith Black®
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Andy, I want one!!
Do you make those...?
will it work with Milodon pump?
Darren
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Darren Beale
Keith Black Racing Engines®
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Re: Hemi Oil Pump
[Re: Keith Black®]
#829806
10/17/10 05:19 PM
10/17/10 05:19 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,805
ky hills
thehemikid
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Quote:
Quote:
This pump and cover assume TWO oils lines from the pan, and yes, block off the extra inlet if it's a World block.
Does this mean I "have" to run two pickups from the pan , or will I get by with just one?
...My understanding is 2 lines are not needed unless you're going over 7,000 rpm. 
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Re: Hemi Oil Pump
[Re: Keith Black®]
#829807
10/17/10 06:17 PM
10/17/10 06:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
Mopar_Rich
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Quote:
Does this mean I "have" to run two pickups from the pan , or will I get by with just one?
I always run two lines because I like the security of the extra oil feeds to the pump. But I have also dynoed many engines with just one line and I have never had a problem with only one line either.
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Re: Hemi Oil Pump
[Re: Mopar_Rich]
#829808
10/17/10 06:34 PM
10/17/10 06:34 PM
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Rich, I have very little room for the lines, so running with one is my preferred option.
Looking at the #21230, with the pump it looks like there are 3 pump inlet possibilities ...and if you count the front one on the block 4..!!?
Does this mean you can use ANY one inlet and just plug the others off?
(just being sure)
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Darren Beale
Keith Black Racing Engines®
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Re: Hemi Oil Pump
[Re: Keith Black®]
#829810
10/17/10 07:01 PM
10/17/10 07:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
Mopar_Rich
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Quote:
Rich, I have very little room for the lines, so running with one is my preferred option.
Looking at the #21230, with the pump it looks like there are 3 pump inlet possibilities ...and if you count the front one on the block 4..!!?
Does this mean you can use ANY one inlet and just plug the others off?
In theory, yes. But you should look at the pump's impeller and use the inlet that obviously has the least restriction. This is usually the inlet that comes in from the side of the cover just like Andy's.
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Re: Hemi Oil Pump
[Re: Keith Black®]
#829811
10/17/10 07:11 PM
10/17/10 07:11 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,752
detroit area
moderncylinder
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you have 3 possibilities,, you CANNOT use the one in the block,,, in using that one oil has to flow through the pump,, like a stock pump does, the pump has a hole on the mounting surface to the block to pass the oil through, the milodon pump does NOT have that ability..
i run a single line to 9500rpm,,, i use a -16line though but many i know have used 12 lines to 9500
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Re: Hemi Oil Pump
[Re: AndyF]
#829814
10/18/10 05:44 AM
10/18/10 05:44 AM
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Keith Black®
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Sounds like a good idea, be great if they implement it. I still reckon your cover would clear my engine mount if I use only one inlet (which is all I need).
In any event I bought the Milodon cover today.
I bought the pump a while ago... hope they're a good pump (!.?)
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Darren Beale
Keith Black Racing Engines®
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Re: Hemi Oil Pump
[Re: Keith Black®]
#829815
11/05/10 12:53 AM
11/05/10 12:53 AM
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QLD Australia
Keith Black®
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.. AND .... ta da.. the pump cover doesn't fit! Does anyone make an oil pump cover: 1. external pick up, and 2. remote filer that will clear the engine mount.? Help please 
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Darren Beale
Keith Black Racing Engines®
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Re: Hemi Oil Pump
[Re: Keith Black®]
#829816
11/05/10 12:55 AM
11/05/10 12:55 AM
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,212
QLD Australia
Keith Black®
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another pic... without the cover on....
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Darren Beale
Keith Black Racing Engines®
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Re: Hemi Oil Pump
[Re: Keith Black®]
#829818
11/05/10 04:08 AM
11/05/10 04:08 AM
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Keith Black®
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...I am wondering what have other people have used with the Standard engine mount Hemi's that require external pickup and a remote filter? Indy..? Help greatly appreciated.
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Darren Beale
Keith Black Racing Engines®
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Re: Hemi Oil Pump
[Re: Keith Black®]
#829821
11/05/10 09:08 AM
11/05/10 09:08 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 420
PasiR
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Quote:
.. AND .... ta da.. the pump cover doesn't fit!
Does anyone make an oil pump cover:
1. external pick up, and
2. remote filer
that will clear the engine mount.? Help please
It is possible to do but you need to modify your motor mount. I can share you some pics.
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Re: Hemi Oil Pump
[Re: AndyF]
#829822
11/05/10 09:43 AM
11/05/10 09:43 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,012
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
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Quote:
This is the cover I use. It has #12 AN fittings machined into the cover with a straight shot to the external oil lines.
What's the reason this one would not work ? It looks like the cover you purchased sticks rearward too far , this one does not look as bad ?
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Re: Hemi Oil Pump
[Re: Mopar_Rich]
#829823
11/05/10 02:45 PM
11/05/10 02:45 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206
New York
polyspheric
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Re: I always run two lines
If the rotor cavity is segmented for 2 inlets (like a multi-stage dry sump), you've fine - but you have to run both or you're down 50% on volume.
If it's a common chamber to the rotor, you cannot run 2 lines unless you know that neither pickup will be exposed.
Why?
Because if only one pickup is submerged, the rotor has a choice to draw from either:
1. the thick, gooey, viscous oil from the wet pickup, or
2. the nice clean air from the exposed pick-up.
Guess what happens?
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: Hemi Oil Pump
[Re: AndyF]
#829827
11/05/10 05:58 PM
11/05/10 05:58 PM
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QLD Australia
Keith Black®
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Andy, the cover looks great.. however I think the issue is that the pump is too thick, so a thinner cover will help but may not solve the problem. Are there any other HV pumps available... Indy..? .. I need a really good pump but don't have the room! sigh. Must have 1 x external feed line (can use block if needed), and provide for a remote filter. Is the standard hemi pump up to the job of supply very high output street engine...?
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Darren Beale
Keith Black Racing Engines®
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Re: Hemi Oil Pump
[Re: Keith Black®]
#829828
11/05/10 06:34 PM
11/05/10 06:34 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
HPMike
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Quote:
]Is the standard hemi pump up to the job of supply very high output street engine...?
yes
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Re: Hemi Oil Pump
[Re: HPMike]
#829829
11/05/10 06:45 PM
11/05/10 06:45 PM
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QLD Australia
Keith Black®
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Mike would you run it on your 1,500hp engine? Can i fit another cover for remote filter ?
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Darren Beale
Keith Black Racing Engines®
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Re: Hemi Oil Pump
[Re: Keith Black®]
#829830
11/05/10 11:14 PM
11/05/10 11:14 PM
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QLD Australia
Keith Black®
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Does anyone have a pic of an Indy pump & cover?
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Darren Beale
Keith Black Racing Engines®
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Re: Hemi Oil Pump
[Re: Keith Black®]
#829831
11/06/10 06:21 PM
11/06/10 06:21 PM
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Joined: Jun 2009
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QLD Australia
Keith Black®
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Andy I may have to get you to machine me a cover up..?
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Darren Beale
Keith Black Racing Engines®
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Re: Hemi Oil Pump
[Re: Keith Black®]
#829832
11/06/10 09:50 PM
11/06/10 09:50 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,231
State of retirement
52savoy
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Quote:
.. AND .... ta da.. the pump cover doesn't fit!
Does anyone make an oil pump cover:
1. external pick up, and
2. remote filer
that will clear the engine mount.? Help please
It will clear....you will have to grind about a 1/4" off the cover and if your using the rear port the motor mount bracket(webbing) will need to be almost completely removed. The isolator stud and nut might have to be shaved a bit too..
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Re: Hemi Oil Pump
[Re: 52savoy]
#829833
11/07/10 12:26 AM
11/07/10 12:26 AM
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QLD Australia
Keith Black®
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Fred,
Have you got any pictures of a modified housing ? ...mount?
where on the housing would I shave 1/4 in?
would really appreciate anything, stuck with this problem at the moment!
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Darren Beale
Keith Black Racing Engines®
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Re: Hemi Oil Pump
[Re: Hemi Allstate]
#829835
11/07/10 01:41 AM
11/07/10 01:41 AM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,231
State of retirement
52savoy
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that's good link.... I no longer have the modified pump cover and mount so I can't post any pics but Hemi Allstate's post should give you an idea.. let me change that..I do have the mount/isolator. I'll post a picture Sunday. notice the bracket corner cut off. I also cut the rubber isolator off below the bracket. The gusset was removed but I welded a partial back in after I quit using the Milodon pump...also notice the thin isolator nut. 
Last edited by 52savoy; 11/07/10 02:42 PM.
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Re: Hemi Oil Pump
[Re: Bigcube]
#829843
11/08/10 12:46 AM
11/08/10 12:46 AM
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QLD Australia
Keith Black®
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Without a doubt the Titan looks like the best. I have to stick with the engine mounts so the Titan is out.
I am limited to pumps that fit with engine mounts, & that support remote filter.
Ideally, I wanted to use the Milodon pump ... this however seems to be looking less and less likely.
I will try to get a pump cover made that will work.
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Darren Beale
Keith Black Racing Engines®
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Re: Hemi Oil Pump
[Re: Keith Black®]
#829844
11/08/10 01:42 AM
11/08/10 01:42 AM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,231
State of retirement
52savoy
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Quote:
Quote:
......bracket. The gusset was removed but I welded a partial back in after I quit using the Milodon pump...also notice the thin isolator nut.
Fred, why did you quit using the Milodon pump?
I retired the car and restored it.
I forgot to mention....The pictured isolator is new and isn't the one I cut the corner off for clearance.
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Re: Hemi Oil Pump
[Re: Teamx]
#829847
11/08/10 06:43 AM
11/08/10 06:43 AM
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QLD Australia
Keith Black®
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thanks Tim, but the pickup is not the problem... its the depth/height of the pump including cover. If I had a cover that was shallow I may be able to get around it. I think I will have to get a cover made. Not sure what to do now 
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Darren Beale
Keith Black Racing Engines®
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Re: Hemi Oil Pump
[Re: Keith Black®]
#829848
11/08/10 10:01 AM
11/08/10 10:01 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing
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Quote:
Quote:
Why not use a stock pump with a stock cover and a aftermarket spin on adapter for a remote filter lines.I have pick up a few from our local NAPA store for aprox $20.I probably have a few lying around the shop.
Bob... I bought the Milodon pump assuming it would be a high quality piece, and as an insurance policy on the engine to some degree.
I may be a bit misguided but I still have a niggling feeling about using a stock pump on a high dollar motor... are the stock pumps really that good?
If so then it may be worth a go.???
90% of our bracket engines use a stock high volume pump with Indy cover plates .Indy makes a remote cover plate as well.
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Re: Hemi Oil Pump
[Re: Keith Black®]
#829852
11/08/10 04:54 PM
11/08/10 04:54 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,805
ky hills
thehemikid
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Quote:
Quote:
...If it's the height of the pump body adding to the problem, would a Melling H/V pump body (staying with your H/V plan) be shorter? Helping in the cover thickness problem also. If so, could you then bring the oil into the blocks front (out side) port entree.
...Or is the difference in heights between your pump & the Melling 63HV to little to help?
thanks Jeff, do you have a Melling pump or the height measurement? or a Std H/V Hemi pump height measurement?
...Just went to measure it(melling H/V) before you posted & my caliper's battery went dead, but its a hair under 1.75" without a gasket.
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Re: Hemi Oil Pump
[Re: thehemikid]
#829853
11/08/10 05:11 PM
11/08/10 05:11 PM
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QLD Australia
Keith Black®
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Awesome! thanks! I'll go check my Milodon.
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Darren Beale
Keith Black Racing Engines®
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Re: Hemi Oil Pump
[Re: Keith Black®]
#829854
11/08/10 06:12 PM
11/08/10 06:12 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
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ky hills
thehemikid
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Quote:
Quote:
...90% of our bracket engines use a stock high volume pump with Indy cover plates .Indy makes a remote cover plate as well.
Bob, do you have the height measurement of your high volume pump? Any pics of the Indy cover?
...I went to the garage to take some pic's of my Indy cover. I "think" it is the same cover as the remote cover but machined to except to spin on adapter, someone correct me if I'm wrong. I'll post the pic's with some measurement's too, depending on how good the pic's are. back in a few.
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Re: Hemi Oil Pump
[Re: thehemikid]
#829855
11/08/10 06:22 PM
11/08/10 06:22 PM
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ky hills
thehemikid
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...Pic's of Indy Maxx cover with spin on adapter. ...EDIT: "If" you could cut off that rear entree port & flush plug it, that would save ~5/8".
Last edited by thehemikid; 11/08/10 08:12 PM.
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Re: Hemi Oil Pump
[Re: thehemikid]
#829857
11/08/10 08:38 PM
11/08/10 08:38 PM
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QLD Australia
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thanks Jeff, so far.. PUMP: height/depth: Milodon 1-15/16 Melling 1-3/4 COVER: height/depth: Milodon 1-3/8 Indy 1-11/32 height/depth gain: 7/32 or 0.21 in. Not even 1/4in. Hmmphh. Thanks again Jeff, Bob, appreciate your help on this. I should probably look at getting Andy to fabricate a modification of his cover type. I wonder what the standard Hemi (1) oil pump & (2) cover height/depth is. 
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Darren Beale
Keith Black Racing Engines®
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Re: Hemi Oil Pump
[Re: Keith Black®]
#829866
11/09/10 07:30 AM
11/09/10 07:30 AM
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,212
QLD Australia
Keith Black®
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,212
QLD Australia
|
rear of pump cover I will cut off.. (hopefully pic will load this time):
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Darren Beale
Keith Black Racing Engines®
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