Moparts
Hemi Oil Pump
I need help to get the right pump cover & hope someone
I have a World aluminum block which has the pickup plumbed directly into the block. I will use this for the single feed external line from the sump/pickup to the block.
I want to run an Remote Oil Filter, so which pump cover should I use? I have the Milodon 21815 pump.?
I want to retain the original engine mounts (Hemi/B-Body).
Hope someone can help.!
whoops typo.. *hope someone can help!
pic of pump:
actually with that pump you cannot use the pickup hole in the block,, you have the fitting comming right off the pump,, use it
ok thanks, any clues on the cover to use?
Posted By: Mopar_Rich
Re: Hemi Oil Pump - 10/14/10 11:48 PM
Geeeze Darren, you just have to send me an email...
With the 21185 pump you use the 21220 or the 21230 cover. The 21220 has the second inlet from the back, and the 21230 has the second inlet from the side or the back, but the covers are interchangeable.
Remember the intermediate shaft is different with the pump.
You would use 21503 for a steel gear and 21523 for the bronze gear.
The remote filter fittings are -10 o-ring on the cover and -10 or -12 AN male for the lines. The covers do not include the fittings.
thanks Rich
. It looks like the #21230 is the best option, as it relates to retaining existing engine mounts.
the pickup line from the pan goes to the front of the pump (the pickup hole at the front of the engine block is to be blocked off, as is the pickup flange inside the crankcase).
It would be useful to see a picture of filter out/in if someone has one with the #21230.
Drive gear noted, will need the bronze one. I'll make a trip to Earl's for the fittings. At least we have one of those stores in Australia not much else when it comes to Hemi's.
Posted By: Mopar_Rich
Re: Hemi Oil Pump - 10/15/10 02:01 AM
This pump and cover assume TWO oils lines from the pan, and yes, block off the extra inlet if it's a World block.
if you look at the pump, it has no provision to pickup any oil from the mounting surface on the block which is why i said you cant use the hole in the block,, that pump will actually block it all off just bolting the pump on,, id block off the external hole but the internal hole is no big deal. put a plug in the one you dont use on either the cover or pump, though id use the one on the pump,, i think its easier to fill the rotors comming from the back side,, ive tried both with a single line to 9000 rpm and seen no differnce in oil pressures
Quote:
whoops typo.. *hope someone can help!
pic of pump:
If you want only 1 oil feedline you can run a stock pump cover with that pump. Which is what I use on my dart.
Quote:
If you want only 1 oil feedline you can run a stock pump cover with that pump. Which is what I use on my dart.
I would think the stock cover doesn't support a remote filter setup?
Quote:
if you look at the pump, it has no provision to pickup any oil from the mounting surface on the block which is why i said you cant use the hole in the block,, that pump will actually block it all off just bolting the pump on,, id block off the external hole but the internal hole is no big deal. put a plug in the one you dont use on either the cover or pump, though id use the one on the pump,, i think its easier to fill the rotors comming from the back side,, ive tried both with a single line to 9000 rpm and seen no difference in oil pressures
So with the right cover I could feed the external line coming from the Pan into the rear of the pump (and block off the 2-front inlets one being in the pump itself and the other in the front of the block which will be blocked anyway with this pump) Correct ..??
If this is the case that'd be a clean install & the best for my application.
I assume in/out ports for the remote filter are thosee two ports on the front-leading edge of the pump cover?
Rich ...I think that'd be either of both of pump cover #21210 or #21200 ??
Darren
I run a stock cover with the milodon pump you have pictured up top, and I thought summit sold a kit that worked with a stock cover. I could be wrong.
Posted By: GregCon
Re: Hemi Oil Pump - 10/15/10 05:22 AM
Not my own experience but I have had two noted Mopar engine guys, DLI and RBRE, personally tell me that pump is problem child due to the aluminum body. They said it is too easy to flex it when you tighten the bolts.
Posted By: AndyF
Re: Hemi Oil Pump - 10/15/10 05:24 AM
This is the cover I use. It has #12 AN fittings machined into the cover with a straight shot to the external oil lines.
Posted By: AndyF
Re: Hemi Oil Pump - 10/15/10 05:26 AM
Installed in the car.
Andy, I want one!!
Do you make those...?
will it work with Milodon pump?
Darren
Posted By: PasiR
Re: Hemi Oil Pump - 10/15/10 09:28 AM
You probably can´t use Andys pump cover with stock motor mounts.
Quote:
This pump and cover assume TWO oils lines from the pan, and yes, block off the extra inlet if it's a World block.
Does this mean I "have" to run two pickups from the pan , or will I get by with just one?
Posted By: thehemikid
Re: Hemi Oil Pump - 10/17/10 09:19 PM
Quote:
Quote:
This pump and cover assume TWO oils lines from the pan, and yes, block off the extra inlet if it's a World block.
Does this mean I "have" to run two pickups from the pan , or will I get by with just one?
...My understanding is 2 lines are not needed unless you're going over 7,000 rpm. 
Posted By: Mopar_Rich
Re: Hemi Oil Pump - 10/17/10 10:17 PM
Quote:
Does this mean I "have" to run two pickups from the pan , or will I get by with just one?
I always run two lines because I like the security of the extra oil feeds to the pump. But I have also dynoed many engines with just one line and I have never had a problem with only one line either.
Rich, I have very little room for the lines, so running with one is my preferred option.
Looking at the #21230, with the pump it looks like there are 3 pump inlet possibilities ...and if you count the front one on the block 4..!!?
Does this mean you can use ANY one inlet and just plug the others off?
(just being sure)
Posted By: coronetville
Re: Hemi Oil Pump - 10/17/10 10:54 PM
I have for sale two milodon systems
Posted By: Mopar_Rich
Re: Hemi Oil Pump - 10/17/10 11:01 PM
Quote:
Rich, I have very little room for the lines, so running with one is my preferred option.
Looking at the #21230, with the pump it looks like there are 3 pump inlet possibilities ...and if you count the front one on the block 4..!!?
Does this mean you can use ANY one inlet and just plug the others off?
In theory, yes. But you should look at the pump's impeller and use the inlet that obviously has the least restriction. This is usually the inlet that comes in from the side of the cover just like Andy's.
you have 3 possibilities,, you CANNOT use the one in the block,,, in using that one oil has to flow through the pump,, like a stock pump does, the pump has a hole on the mounting surface to the block to pass the oil through, the milodon pump does NOT have that ability..
i run a single line to 9500rpm,,, i use a -16line though but many i know have used 12 lines to 9500
thanks everyone. I'll get the #21230.
...& plug the block inlet, then decide on mock up which inlet to use based on space.
Posted By: AndyF
Re: Hemi Oil Pump - 10/18/10 02:52 AM
I suggested to Steve at Milodon that he make a version of his oil pump for the World block. They could make a pump body that works with their gear set but doesn't have the external inlet. That kind of pump would still have the same volume as their existing pump but would be 3/4 of an inch shorter for more clearance and would be a dual inlet pump when used with their cover and the World block.
Sounds like a good idea, be great if they implement it. I still reckon your cover would clear my engine mount if I use only one inlet (which is all I need).
In any event I bought the Milodon cover today.
I bought the pump a while ago... hope they're a good pump (!.?)
.. AND .... ta da.. the pump cover doesn't fit!
Does anyone make an oil pump cover:
1. external pick up, and
2. remote filer
that will clear the engine mount.? Help please
another pic... without the cover on....
and pump & cover.
...I am wondering what have other people have used with the Standard engine mount Hemi's that require external pickup and a remote filter?
Indy..?
Help greatly appreciated.
I still think you will be ok with the milodon pump and a stock pump cover like I use, for the remote filter use this on the stock pump cover.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TRD-1113/edit
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CTR-22-926/?rtype=10
Posted By: B G Racing
Re: Hemi Oil Pump - 11/05/10 12:55 PM
Indy and World blocks usually have a port on the block that can be used for an external pickup and use a stock pump.Most all other external pickup covers require modification of the engine mount.
Posted By: PasiR
Re: Hemi Oil Pump - 11/05/10 01:08 PM
Quote:
.. AND .... ta da.. the pump cover doesn't fit!
Does anyone make an oil pump cover:
1. external pick up, and
2. remote filer
that will clear the engine mount.? Help please
It is possible to do but you need to modify your motor mount. I can share you some pics.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Hemi Oil Pump - 11/05/10 01:43 PM
Quote:
This is the cover I use. It has #12 AN fittings machined into the cover with a straight shot to the external oil lines.
What's the reason this one would not work ? It looks like the cover you purchased sticks rearward too far , this one does not look as bad ?
Posted By: polyspheric
Re: Hemi Oil Pump - 11/05/10 06:45 PM
Re: I always run two lines
If the rotor cavity is segmented for 2 inlets (like a multi-stage dry sump), you've fine - but you have to run both or you're down 50% on volume.
If it's a common chamber to the rotor, you cannot run 2 lines unless you know that neither pickup will be exposed.
Why?
Because if only one pickup is submerged, the rotor has a choice to draw from either:
1. the thick, gooey, viscous oil from the wet pickup, or
2. the nice clean air from the exposed pick-up.
Guess what happens?
Posted By: AndyF
Re: Hemi Oil Pump - 11/05/10 07:24 PM
Looks like you need the pump that I was suggesting that Milodon should build. You already have an inlet in the block so you don't need a pump with the inlet on it. That would shorten the assembly by 3/4 of an inch which would probably allow things to fit together.
It isn't a tough project to do, just takes money. The other option (which would be much easier) would be to switch over to a factory Hemi oil pump body.
Posted By: AndyF
Re: Hemi Oil Pump - 11/05/10 07:28 PM
That cover is one that I custom designed for my car. It wouldn't work for his application because I think he wants an external inlet on the cover.
Jeff, the consensus has been that I will be ok with one pickup??? typical use < 7,000 rpm, probably a lot less most of the time (streetcar).
Andy, the cover looks great.. however I think the issue is that the pump is too thick, so a thinner cover will help but may not solve the problem.
Are there any other HV pumps available... Indy..? ..
I need a really good pump but don't have the room! sigh.
Must have 1 x external feed line (can use block if needed), and provide for a remote filter.
Is the standard hemi pump up to the job of supply very high output street engine...?
Posted By: HPMike
Re: Hemi Oil Pump - 11/05/10 10:34 PM
Quote:
]Is the standard hemi pump up to the job of supply very high output street engine...?
yes
Mike would you run it on your 1,500hp engine?
Can i fit another cover for remote filter ?
Does anyone have a pic of an Indy pump & cover?
Andy I may have to get you to machine me a cover up..?
Posted By: 52savoy
Re: Hemi Oil Pump - 11/07/10 01:50 AM
Quote:
.. AND .... ta da.. the pump cover doesn't fit!
Does anyone make an oil pump cover:
1. external pick up, and
2. remote filer
that will clear the engine mount.? Help please
It will clear....you will have to grind about a 1/4" off the cover and if your using the rear port the motor mount bracket(webbing) will need to be almost completely removed. The isolator stud and nut might have to be shaved a bit too..
Fred,
Have you got any pictures of a modified housing ? ...mount?
where on the housing would I shave 1/4 in?
would really appreciate anything, stuck with this problem at the moment!
would really appreciate anything, stuck with this problem at the moment!
There might be some help in this link.
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=4759108&an=0&page=11
Posted By: 52savoy
Re: Hemi Oil Pump - 11/07/10 05:41 AM
that's good link....
I no longer have the modified pump cover and mount so I can't post any pics but Hemi Allstate's
post should give you an idea..
let me change that..I do have the mount/isolator. I'll post a picture Sunday.
notice the bracket corner cut off. I also cut the rubber isolator off below the bracket. The gusset was removed but I welded a partial back in after I quit using the Milodon pump...also notice the thin isolator nut.
Posted By: scottsgretch
Re: Hemi Oil Pump - 11/07/10 06:44 PM
I have the same problem with the milodon pump cover interferring with the motor mount on my aluminum hemi world block. About a 1/2-inch off. Already had the pump cover machined down on the rear by Tim Banning at FHO Hemi's in Ontario when he built me the motor for me. Thought that would take care of the problem but guess not!
I don't know if the cover can be machined any further without hurting it. I can replace the rear plug with a flush plug which would help but not take care of it oompletely. Was also told i could use a factory hemi pump cover to take care of the problem but don't know if that would do it or not. I can't complete installing my motor until i get this figures out. BAH!!!!
I'm trying to research this as best i can so I can find a soluton too.
I've tried to attach PICS but they must be too big.
Scott
Quote:
I have the same problem with the milodon pump cover interferring with the motor mount on my aluminum hemi world block. About a 1/2-inch off. Already had the pump cover machined down on the rear by Tim Banning at FHO Hemi's in Ontario when he built me the motor for me. Thought that would take care of the problem but guess not!
I don't know if the cover can be machined any further without hurting it. I can replace the rear plug with a flush plug which would help but not take care of it oompletely. Was also told i could use a factory hemi pump cover to take care of the problem but don't know if that would do it or not. I can't complete installing my motor until i get this figures out. BAH!!!!
I'm trying to research this as best i can so I can find a soluton too.
I've tried to attach PICS but they must be too big.
Scott
Scott, I have the same set up as you. On first inspection it looked near impossible to get the Milodon cover to fit the pump, not surprised machining 1/2in is not enough. I'll take another look over the next day or so but need another cover (maybe an Indy cover?? need a pic).
Hopefully Fred as a solution, let's wait and see his pictures.. (thanks in advance Fred)
Quote:
That cover is one that I custom designed for my car. It wouldn't work for his application because I think he wants an external inlet on the cover.
Andy I don't need any inlet on the cover. I only the 2x lines for an remote filter (feed + return)... do you reckon your cover would work.. or could we modify it more easily to work?
Quote:
......bracket. The gusset was removed but I welded a partial back in after I quit using the Milodon pump...also notice the thin isolator nut.
Fred, why did you quit using the Milodon pump?
Posted By: B G Racing
Re: Hemi Oil Pump - 11/08/10 04:03 AM
Why not use a stock pump with a stock cover and a aftermarket spin on adapter for a remote filter lines.I have pick up a few from our local NAPA store for aprox $20.I probably have a few lying around the shop.
Quote:
Why not use a stock pump with a stock cover and a aftermarket spin on adapter for a remote filter lines.I have pick up a few from our local NAPA store for aprox $20.I probably have a few lying around the shop.
Bob... I bought the Milodon pump assuming it would be a high quality piece, and as an insurance policy on the engine to some degree.
I may be a bit misguided but I still have a niggling feeling about using a stock pump on a high dollar motor... are the stock pumps really that good?
If so then it may be worth a go.???
Posted By: Bigcube
Re: Hemi Oil Pump - 11/08/10 04:34 AM
Without a doubt the Titan looks like the best. I have to stick with the engine mounts so the Titan is out.
I am limited to pumps that fit with engine mounts, & that support remote filter.
Ideally, I wanted to use the Milodon pump ... this however seems to be looking less and less likely.
I will try to get a pump cover made that will work.
Posted By: 52savoy
Re: Hemi Oil Pump - 11/08/10 05:42 AM
Quote:
Quote:
......bracket. The gusset was removed but I welded a partial back in after I quit using the Milodon pump...also notice the thin isolator nut.
Fred, why did you quit using the Milodon pump?
I retired the car and restored it.
I forgot to mention....The pictured isolator is new and isn't the one I cut the corner off for clearance.
Posted By: Teamx
Re: Hemi Oil Pump - 11/08/10 09:08 AM
Darren, Can you use internal pickup with a deep pan, should be fine for a streeter although my block was tight with a 4.25 stroke!
Posted By: Teamx
Re: Hemi Oil Pump - 11/08/10 09:11 AM
another!
thanks Tim, but the pickup is not the problem... its the depth/height of the pump including cover. If I had a cover that was shallow I may be able to get around it.
I think I will have to get a cover made.
Not sure what to do now
Posted By: B G Racing
Re: Hemi Oil Pump - 11/08/10 02:01 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Why not use a stock pump with a stock cover and a aftermarket spin on adapter for a remote filter lines.I have pick up a few from our local NAPA store for aprox $20.I probably have a few lying around the shop.
Bob... I bought the Milodon pump assuming it would be a high quality piece, and as an insurance policy on the engine to some degree.
I may be a bit misguided but I still have a niggling feeling about using a stock pump on a high dollar motor... are the stock pumps really that good?
If so then it may be worth a go.???
90% of our bracket engines use a stock high volume pump with Indy cover plates .Indy makes a remote cover plate as well.
Posted By: thehemikid
Re: Hemi Oil Pump - 11/08/10 07:12 PM
...If it's the height of the pump body adding to the problem, would a Melling H/V pump body (staying with your H/V plan) be shorter? Helping in the cover thickness problem also. If so, could you then bring the oil into the blocks front (out side) port entree.
...Or is the difference in heights between your pump & the Melling 63HV to little to help?
Quote:
...If it's the height of the pump body adding to the problem, would a Melling H/V pump body (staying with your H/V plan) be shorter? Helping in the cover thickness problem also. If so, could you then bring the oil into the blocks front (out side) port entree.
...Or is the difference in heights between your pump & the Melling 63HV to little to help?
thanks Jeff, do you have a Melling pump or the height measurement? or a Std H/V Hemi pump height measurement?
Quote:
...90% of our bracket engines use a stock high volume pump with Indy cover plates .Indy makes a remote cover plate as well.
Bob, do you have the height measurement of your high volume pump? Any pics of the Indy cover?
Posted By: thehemikid
Re: Hemi Oil Pump - 11/08/10 08:54 PM
Quote:
Quote:
...If it's the height of the pump body adding to the problem, would a Melling H/V pump body (staying with your H/V plan) be shorter? Helping in the cover thickness problem also. If so, could you then bring the oil into the blocks front (out side) port entree.
...Or is the difference in heights between your pump & the Melling 63HV to little to help?
thanks Jeff, do you have a Melling pump or the height measurement? or a Std H/V Hemi pump height measurement?
...Just went to measure it(melling H/V) before you posted & my caliper's battery went dead, but its a hair under 1.75" without a gasket.
Awesome! thanks! I'll go check my Milodon.
Posted By: thehemikid
Re: Hemi Oil Pump - 11/08/10 10:12 PM
Quote:
Quote:
...90% of our bracket engines use a stock high volume pump with Indy cover plates .Indy makes a remote cover plate as well.
Bob, do you have the height measurement of your high volume pump? Any pics of the Indy cover?
...I went to the garage to take some pic's of my Indy cover. I "think" it is the same cover as the remote cover but machined to except to spin on adapter, someone correct me if I'm wrong. I'll post the pic's with some measurement's too, depending on how good the pic's are. back in a few.
Posted By: thehemikid
Re: Hemi Oil Pump - 11/08/10 10:22 PM
...Pic's of Indy Maxx cover with spin on adapter. ...EDIT: "If" you could cut off that rear entree port & flush plug it, that would save ~5/8".
.jpg "6291797-PB080575(2).jpg")
Posted By: thehemikid
Re: Hemi Oil Pump - 11/08/10 10:26 PM
#2
...Thats ~ 1&11/32's
.jpg "6291806-PB080578(2).jpg")
thanks Jeff, so far..
PUMP:
height/depth: Milodon 1-15/16
Melling 1-3/4
COVER:
height/depth: Milodon 1-3/8
Indy 1-11/32
height/depth gain: 7/32 or 0.21 in. Not even 1/4in.
Hmmphh.
Thanks again Jeff, Bob, appreciate your help on this.
I should probably look at getting Andy to fabricate a modification of his cover type.
I wonder what the standard Hemi (1) oil pump & (2) cover height/depth is.
Posted By: thehemikid
Re: Hemi Oil Pump - 11/09/10 01:29 AM
...How much more do ya need?
Posted By: snook
Re: Hemi Oil Pump - 11/09/10 01:42 AM
If BG is suggesting a stock pump in your application (street car - bracket racer), I'd think you'd do well to listen to the man. That's what I'm planning to use in my world block hemi.
Just my 2 cents.
Quote:
...How much more do ya need?
I'm not sure.. seeing the pump cover doesn't fit anyway I will get the rear side/overhang machined off so that it is flush with the pump housing (see pic) and I'll plug the rear oil-feed-holes (as I am using the front anyway).
Then I'll remeasure to see if it needs any thickness removed and if that's possible.
Posted By: thehemikid
Re: Hemi Oil Pump - 11/09/10 02:19 AM
...Attachment didn't work for me, is this what you're cutting.
Posted By: 602heavy
Re: Hemi Oil Pump - 11/09/10 02:49 AM
Quote:
Why not use a stock pump with a stock cover and a aftermarket spin on adapter for a remote filter lines.I have pick up a few from our local NAPA store for aprox $20.I probably have a few lying around the shop.
This is similar to what i used , although i blocked off the internal pickup & put a sandwhich plate between pump & block to enable me to use external oiling , no cutting to K frame & fitted like a glove , obviously had to fit the longer oil pump drive , spun this engine to 7500 rpm with oil pressure around 50psi............ went through pump/plate & opened any oil ways that were neccesary.
Posted By: Teamx
Re: Hemi Oil Pump - 11/09/10 08:54 AM
Darren, What I was sugesting is using a HV melling pump and internal pickup with a deep pan providing you have enough internal clearance for the pickup tube,as the car is a streeter?
Quote:
...Attachment didn't work for me, is this what you're cutting.
yes but along the contour of the pump. still not confident there will be enough room... but will see (nothing to lose!)..
Quote:
Darren, What I was sugesting is using a HV melling pump and internal pickup with a deep pan providing you have enough internal clearance for the pickup tube,as the car is a streeter?
thanks Tim, the pickup and pan setup is fine. No issues there (yes the car will be a streeter).
The issue is with the remote filter~pump cover setup - it hits the engine mount at the rear (I have no intention of using the inlets at the rear of the pump cover but I need the FRONT ones!
rear of pump cover I will cut off.. (hopefully pic will load this time):
.jpg "6292688-OilPump-6(s).jpg")
