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Passon 5 Speed
#802899
09/16/10 11:10 AM
09/16/10 11:10 AM
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 869
Sugarloaf, PA. USA
JamiePasson
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 869
Sugarloaf, PA. USA
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Forgive my absence on the board here lately. I have been buried trying to stay on top of things. I just checked some posts and people were asking about progress on the 5 speed trans.
Well let me assure you that we ARE making progress on it. It has been slower than we wanted. Keep in mind, we started with a clean sheet of paper here. We are a small company and things take time.
This is why my intention from the beginning was not to mention anything until we were closer to production. However, the McLeod M800 thing kinda threw a wrench in that and I felt that I had better mention that we were working on a project so that people knew that another option was coming.
Regardless, in the spring, we had several casting changes to make. These have been made and we are working on the gear interlock mechanism now. We are currently waiting on the shift forks and parts for the interlock mechanism.
We had hoped to have a display piece for the Mopar Nationals, but vendor time frames kept us from accomplishing that.
Yes, this is taking longer than I originally thought. There have been plenty of hiccups along the way. However, due to the fact that there will be no mods needed to install it like some of the other options out there. It is truly an afternoon swap if your car is currently a 4 speed.
I am cleaning out my PM mailbox as soon as I post this. Feel free to contact me with any questions, OR you can always call or e-mail.
Thanks,
Jamie
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Re: Passon 5 Speed
[Re: JamiePasson]
#802902
09/16/10 02:02 PM
09/16/10 02:02 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,001
Canada
Ghoste
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,001
Canada
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Still nice to know you are making progress. Looking forward to the final announcement.
I see a light at the end of the tunnel, and it's... ELECTROLUMINESCENT!
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Re: Passon 5 Speed
[Re: DAYCLONA]
#802905
09/16/10 02:25 PM
09/16/10 02:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,240
Saline, MI
efisixpack
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,240
Saline, MI
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What do you estimate the torque capacity to be? I'm definately interested if it can handle decent power and truely is a bolt-in kit. I've put 5000 miles on my 71 demon this summer and the 4-spped is killing me on the highway with just a 3.55 gear. Pleas e keep us updated as time/progress allows.
When I die I want to go like my Grandfather did, quietly in his sleep. Not screaming like the passengers in his car.
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Re: Passon 5 Speed
[Re: efisixpack]
#802906
09/16/10 03:11 PM
09/16/10 03:11 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,391
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,391
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
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I see this seems to be more street orientated trans but, forgive me for not looking up the older post, can this thing be used street/strip with slicks and a big block? Just curious on what rating you will be giving it and what kind of car its aimed at. Seems to be lots of choices in the lower hp areana, but less when you build a big block.
Last edited by Dragula; 09/16/10 03:14 PM.
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Re: Passon 5 Speed
[Re: JamiePasson]
#802910
09/16/10 11:46 PM
09/16/10 11:46 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,278
West Coast, USA
jbc426
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,278
West Coast, USA
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What a wonderful way to spend an afternoon! There's more than a few of us that can hardly wait.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: Passon 5 Speed
[Re: JamiePasson]
#802911
09/17/10 12:44 AM
09/17/10 12:44 AM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 730
Nampa, ID
MadMatt
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 730
Nampa, ID
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Hi Jamie, My post is one of the ones I think you were referring to. Anyway, I'm trying to gather parts in anticipation of your trans coming out. Just to be certain, I can purchase a standard A-833 Quicktime bellhousing, a standard LA 360 flywheel, and an 18 spline clutch and T/O bearing and all will be fine, right? Basically all I will need from you is the trans and shifter? 
Some see the glass as half empty, some see the glass as half full. I just drink straight out of the bottle.
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Re: Passon 5 Speed
[Re: JamiePasson]
#802915
09/17/10 06:28 PM
09/17/10 06:28 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,278
West Coast, USA
jbc426
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,278
West Coast, USA
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Quote:
That is correct. The shifter is actually part of the trans. It will be available in press in or bolt on type so that you can use your existing factory 4 speed handle if you desire.
The ratios are as follow:
2.65
1.92
1.40
1.00
.70
Thanks,
jamie
Nice ratio selection, I drove a buddies Keisler equipted, 3.54 geared 440 b-body the other day, and it just felt like the car could use a bit steeper overdrive. Even with 3.54's, when you launch through the gears, you're shifting pretty quickly from 1st through 3rd.
On a track with slicks in the quarter mile it's obviously another story, but in the real world we're talking about top-end speed that is limited only by the car's ability to stay on the road and not start flying.
Wasn't it Richard Petty who said that with 3.54 rear-end gears, his top end was almost unlimited? Imagine if they had this tranmission back in the days of Rapid Transit and Vanishing Point!
Your ratios with the .70 OD sounds perfect, especially with a stroker motor on the freeway these days.
After looking atr the Kiesler website, it seems I was misinformed about the Kiesler 5th gear ratio. Sorry.
Last edited by jbc426; 09/24/10 10:36 AM.
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Re: Passon 5 Speed
[Re: JamiePasson]
#802924
09/22/10 10:58 AM
09/22/10 10:58 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,384
Az
69hemibeep
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,384
Az
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Jamie, what are you doing as far as a shifter goes?
1969 Hemi Roadrunner 2nd owner
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Re: Passon 5 Speed
[Re: JamiePasson]
#802925
09/22/10 11:33 AM
09/22/10 11:33 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,077
Berlin, N.J.
abodyjoe
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,077
Berlin, N.J.
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Quote:
At this point, I am feeling that a realistic time frame is mid 2011. As for cost, we are shooting for less than a "typical" Keisler conversion. We will also work with people taking A-833 cores for credit toward the 5 speed trans if they are interested.
Thanks,
Jamie
sweet. can't wait to see this thing. already put pedals in my dart just need a trans now. 
It's better to keep your mouth shut and give the impression that you're stupid than to open it and remove all doubt. www.MoparMisfits.com
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Re: Passon 5 Speed
[Re: JamiePasson]
#802927
09/22/10 07:02 PM
09/22/10 07:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,497
N.E. Ohio
KillerBee
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,497
N.E. Ohio
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Quote:
At this point, I am feeling that a realistic time frame is mid 2011. As for cost, we are shooting for less than a "typical" Keisler conversion. We will also work with people taking A-833 cores for credit toward the 5 speed trans if they are interested.
Thanks,
Jamie
This is great news.
I would definitely be interested in a transmission like this and I have three A-833 cores ready to go. 
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Re: Passon 5 Speed
[Re: 2fast4yourBrain]
#802929
09/22/10 08:39 PM
09/22/10 08:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,670
Lima, Peru
domingo
EL Master
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EL Master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,670
Lima, Peru
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Quote:
Maybe I missed something, but you are using 833 cases?
It will ALL fit inside? And OEM shifter location is retained?
Would be nice if it can handle at least 600ft-lb of tq.
i dont think so....
he says he will receive 4 speed cores as part payment because he can always use some cores to rebuild and re sell....its his business...
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Re: Passon 5 Speed
[Re: MadMatt]
#802935
09/23/10 03:19 PM
09/23/10 03:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,085
NotRussia
2fast4yourBrain
Whack top Dodger
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Whack top Dodger
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,085
NotRussia
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Quote:
Quote:
As for cost, we are shooting for less than a "typical" Keisler conversion.
Jamie, is that lower cost going to be driven primarily by the need to change fewer parts? I'm going to be doing an A/T to stick conversion. Do you think it will still work out to less than the Keisler auto to stick conversion? Will you be offering any "packages" to support that sort of conversion?
Good point. If you need a crossmember, driveshaft, it may come out the same.
And for conversions...cost of things like bellhousings and clutch...those are all extra anyways w/either kit.
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Re: Passon 5 Speed
[Re: 2fast4yourBrain]
#802936
09/23/10 04:54 PM
09/23/10 04:54 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
DAYCLONA
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
As for cost, we are shooting for less than a "typical" Keisler conversion.
Jamie, is that lower cost going to be driven primarily by the need to change fewer parts? I'm going to be doing an A/T to stick conversion. Do you think it will still work out to less than the Keisler auto to stick conversion? Will you be offering any "packages" to support that sort of conversion?
Good point. If you need a crossmember, driveshaft, it may come out the same.
And for conversions...cost of things like bellhousings and clutch...those are all extra anyways w/either kit.
Generally a complete conversion kit from Keisler to go from auto to stick, complete driveshaft, transmission crossmember, transmission mount, bellhousing, clutch, pressure plate, flywheel, shifter/shifter boot, hyd TOB assy, hyd master cylinder, all the assy hardware, pedals, and of course the transmission TKO 600 5 spd .064 .68, or.82 OD is approx. $4400 to $4700 depending on the application,....you could delete the hyd TOB and save $500 if you prefer mechanical linkage
Mike
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Re: Passon 5 Speed
[Re: MadMatt]
#802937
09/24/10 01:41 AM
09/24/10 01:41 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
As for cost, we are shooting for less than a "typical" Keisler conversion.
Jamie, is that lower cost going to be driven primarily by the need to change fewer parts? I'm going to be doing an A/T to stick conversion. Do you think it will still work out to less than the Keisler auto to stick conversion? Will you be offering any "packages" to support that sort of conversion?
The m/t specific stuff is not cheap. You're looking a few hundred bucks for a used bell housing if you want a big block unit and/or a blow-proof unit. Few hundred for a decent clutch, couple hundred for a clutch pedal setup, then the linkage, shifter, blah blah blah it goes on and on. I'm in the process of a auto->4sp conversion and the $$ add up fast on this stuff and I've been scrounging for used parts.
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Re: Passon 5 Speed
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#802939
09/24/10 09:34 AM
09/24/10 09:34 AM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
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About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
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Quote:
The m/t specific stuff is not cheap. You're looking a few hundred bucks for a used bell housing if you want a big block unit and/or a blow-proof unit. Few hundred for a decent clutch, couple hundred for a clutch pedal setup, then the linkage, shifter, blah blah blah it goes on and on. I'm in the process of a auto->4sp conversion and the $$ add up fast on this stuff and I've been scrounging for used parts.
I dunno about that, I converted my 87 Diplomat over to stick. The total to switch was under $1000. Ebay and bone yard shopping plus me doing all the work kept it real low. $125 for the trans, Ebay kit to rebuild it, Ebay clutch kit for $100, bone yard for clutch pedal/linkage/floor hump. MP kit to freshen up the linkages, boneyard flywheel out of a V6 Dakota, new Hurst shifter from Summit, bone yard for a drive shaft yoke, new u joints.
I started with nothing for a stick conversion, spent less than $1000 and had a 4 speed with all new or rebuilt (mostly by me) parts in it.
After I got done with the swap I found a package deal on 2.5 A833's, a couple of bells, a big box full of linkages, pedals, clutch stuff, etc for under $300, on Ebay, for my 65 Cuda.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
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Re: Passon 5 Speed
[Re: Supercuda]
#802940
09/24/10 10:27 AM
09/24/10 10:27 AM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 211
Tennessee
Keisler Sales
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 211
Tennessee
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I dunno about that, I converted my 87 Diplomat over to stick. The total to switch was under $1000. Ebay and bone yard shopping plus me doing all the work kept it real low. $125 for the trans, Ebay kit to rebuild it, Ebay clutch kit for $100, bone yard for clutch pedal/linkage/floor hump. MP kit to freshen up the linkages, boneyard flywheel out of a V6 Dakota, new Hurst shifter from Summit, bone yard for a drive shaft yoke, new u joints. You obviously haven't checked out parts for the more popular cars IE: 66-70 B and 70-70 E and 71-74 B cars. Brewers does a complete 4 speed swap for The mid 4k range. Our pricing to do a FORD trans not Gm trans into most of the popular Mopars is around $5300 including hydraulic it actually doesn't save money to go mechanical because all the parts involved. We have a very complete kit right down to every nut bolt ans washer even the factory boots and trim rings. All you need to install ours is Beer and band aids.  Good luck Jamie!!
Keisler Engineering www.keislerauto.com#1 Choice of Overdrive Transmissions with Over 14,000 Sold
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Re: Passon 5 Speed
[Re: Keisler Sales]
#802942
09/24/10 02:32 PM
09/24/10 02:32 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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Quote:
I dunno about that, I converted my 87 Diplomat over to stick.
Apples to oranges my friend. Just try finding junkyard parts for any of the popular muscle era cars. Not gonna happen. I scrounged for used stuff and the cost still adds up. There are no cheap big block bellhousings and no $100 new ebay clutch will hold up behind a strong 440 for a run down the track. I can convert an 80's fwd turbo mopar from auto to stick for a couple hundred bucks including the price of a new clutch. Can't even compare the two.
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Re: Passon 5 Speed
[Re: jbc426]
#802944
09/24/10 03:58 PM
09/24/10 03:58 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,278
West Coast, USA
jbc426
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,278
West Coast, USA
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Quote:
Quote:
.....600 lb/ft of torque should not be a problem at all.
600 lb/ft? I was hoping it would handle somewhere in the 700lb/ft range. I've got 680b/ft with a relatively mild, hydraulicly cammed 493 inch motor. Do you think that your new transmission will handle it ok?
Perhaps a better question is at 600ft lb/ft; relatively speaking, does that make the new 5 speed unit stronger than an 18 spline or are they about the same?
Last edited by jbc426; 09/25/10 07:26 AM.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: Passon 5 Speed
[Re: jbc426]
#802945
09/24/10 10:16 PM
09/24/10 10:16 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,180
upstate western ny
sogtx
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,180
upstate western ny
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Great Job , Keep plugging , too bad the post got jacked for a second .  Ok . Ill stop .. Can I trade in and upgrade from my "NEVER INSTALLED YET BECAUSE I KEEP GETTING DISTRACTED By other car projects " passon 4 speed OD ?  Im almost there ..BUT, I think Im getting distracted from my road car again . 
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Re: Passon 5 Speed
[Re: JamiePasson]
#802952
09/25/10 07:26 PM
09/25/10 07:26 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,172
Ohio
theclutcher
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,172
Ohio
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Same ratios as street trans plus od. Far removed from red stripe spread. Can understand the marketing to larger group of potential buyers (street) vs (race). Personally, Id just bolt on a gear vendors unit if I was so desperate for od, cheaper by a couple of grand. Modifying sheetmetal not a concern here. Sounds interesting tho and they will sell. Good luck.
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Re: Passon 5 Speed
[Re: roadrunninMark]
#802954
09/26/10 04:37 PM
09/26/10 04:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,583
SE Pa.
LimeliteAero
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,583
SE Pa.
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Quote:
Whats the chance of shelving the 5 speed idea and switching right to making it a 6 speed? hmmmmmmm......... 
whats the gain?
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Re: Passon 5 Speed
[Re: LimeliteAero]
#802955
09/26/10 04:52 PM
09/26/10 04:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,468
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,468
So Cal
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Quote:
Quote:
Whats the chance of shelving the 5 speed idea and switching right to making it a 6 speed? hmmmmmmm.........
whats the gain?
More costly to built and buy.
Hey 6 is better that 5, right?
Seriously, I'm sure there is some little amount of fuel economy to be gained from an extra gear, but I don't see that justifing the extra cost and possibly/probably tighter fitment.
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Re: Passon 5 Speed
[Re: roadrunninMark]
#802957
09/26/10 09:35 PM
09/26/10 09:35 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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Quote:
tighter gear ratios, more versatility... lot of car companies are going with 6 speed manuals / 7 speed automatics. Must be something to it.
Basically because they're not building for muscle car guys. 6 speeds usually have two overdrive gears instead of one like a 5-sp. If the extra overdrive gear is just there to lessen the drop in rpm between 4th gear(1:1 ratio) and overdrive, I don't see the point. I could see this irritating some yuppie driving a lexus but it wouldn't matter to me.
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Re: Passon 5 Speed
[Re: sogtx]
#802958
09/26/10 10:33 PM
09/26/10 10:33 PM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 52
Texas
shart70rt
member
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member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 52
Texas
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Same situation for me, new gears are in the tranny, but the new tranny's will probably be ready before I have the Charger back together again.
70 Go Mango Charger RT
White Vinyl Top
18 Spline 4 speed
Lakewood Scatter Shield/ Centerforce DF Clutch, Hydraulic bearing
505 Stroker, dual 600's, hyd roller cam - 525 hp, 640 torque
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Re: Passon 5 Speed
[Re: DAYCLONA]
#802960
09/27/10 03:01 AM
09/27/10 03:01 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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Quote:
Basically because they're not building for muscle car guys. 6 speeds usually have two overdrive gears instead of one like a 5-sp. If the extra overdrive gear is just there to lessen the drop in rpm between 4th gear(1:1 ratio) and overdrive, I don't see the point. I could see this irritating some yuppie driving a lexus but it wouldn't matter to me.
You don't see the advantage of a 6 spd?,.....Dodge Viper for example, 6 spd double OD Tremec T56, with a 4:10 rear gear allows you awesome street performance and 190 MPH top end speeds;...that's the advantage of 6 spds....but you Mopar guys are just warming up to 5 spds,..finally  ,....another 10 years you'll see the benefits of 6 gears
And how many muscle car guys actually will drive their car like that to see any benefit from a 6-speed? 99% of your market for this just wants 4-sp gearing for the track and the street with a nice overdrive gear to make highway cruising comfortable. 
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Re: Passon 5 Speed
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#802961
09/27/10 04:18 AM
09/27/10 04:18 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
67Charger
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
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Don't forget to mention, do you really want your driveshaft spinning at 8000+ rpm? Numerically lower gear rear end with a numerically higher low gear in the trans and a good overdrive keep the driveshaft spinning at something resembling a sane speed and still have a good launch.
11.33 @ 118.46 on motor
10.75 @ 125.35 w/ a little spray
Now, high Speed Open Road Racing - Silver State Classic Challenge, Nevada Open Road Challenge, Big Bend Open Road Race
Rocky Mountain Race Week 2020, 2022 2.0, Sick Week 2023
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Re: Passon 5 Speed
[Re: 67Charger]
#802962
09/27/10 04:31 AM
09/27/10 04:31 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,468
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,468
So Cal
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Quote:
Don't forget to mention, do you really want your driveshaft spinning at 8000+ rpm? Numerically lower gear rear end with a numerically higher low gear in the trans and a good overdrive keep the driveshaft spinning at something resembling a sane speed and still have a good launch.
Hey I resemble that remark....
I view my driveshaft as a rev limiter. When I can't see out of the rear view mirror because it's vibrating so much, it's time to slow down.
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Re: Passon 5 Speed
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#802963
09/27/10 09:40 AM
09/27/10 09:40 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 403
30 miles west of EuroDisney
fbernard
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 403
30 miles west of EuroDisney
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Quote:
Quote:
And how many muscle car guys actually will drive their car like that to see any benefit from a 6-speed? 99% of your market for this just wants 4-sp gearing for the track and the street with a nice overdrive gear to make highway cruising comfortable.
Having too much spread between 1:1 and overdrive is not always nice on the road. My Tremec (TKO-600, .64 overdrive) feels like a 6-speed missing the 5th gear. The minimum speed in 5th is the posted speed limit on public highways here, so I often have to switch back to 4th just to maintain RPMs above 1500 (worse things in life, I know).
And on a racetrack, I can't accelerate past 150mph because of the spread. 6500 RPM in 4th, all is fine, when I upshift the revs drop too much and I can only maintain that speed. There aren't too many tracks fast enough to require a good 5th ratio, I only know a couple here.
Had I known that, I'd have gone for the .80 final ratio version.
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Re: Passon 5 Speed
[Re: Keisler Sales]
#802964
09/27/10 12:07 PM
09/27/10 12:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,017
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,017
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
All you need to install ours is Beer and band aids.
Good luck Jamie!!
You forgot the 
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Re: Passon 5 Speed
[Re: JamiePasson]
#802966
09/27/10 01:17 PM
09/27/10 01:17 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 730
Nampa, ID
MadMatt
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 730
Nampa, ID
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Jamie,
Thanks for the continuing updates, but you still haven't told us A-body guys for certain whether there will be a transmission for our application, i.e. 1970 Dart. Come on, the suspense is killing me!
Some see the glass as half empty, some see the glass as half full. I just drink straight out of the bottle.
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Re: Passon 5 Speed
[Re: MadMatt]
#802967
09/27/10 02:15 PM
09/27/10 02:15 PM
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 869
Sugarloaf, PA. USA
JamiePasson
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 869
Sugarloaf, PA. USA
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Matt, Rest assured, There will be an A Body unit just for you guys. In fact, this is the first one to manufacturing. And everyone says A Bodies don't get any respect. Jamie
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Re: Passon 5 Speed
[Re: Supercuda]
#802972
09/28/10 10:47 AM
09/28/10 10:47 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
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Quote:
Quote:
Don't forget to mention, do you really want your driveshaft spinning at 8000+ rpm? Numerically lower gear rear end with a numerically higher low gear in the trans and a good overdrive keep the driveshaft spinning at something resembling a sane speed and still have a good launch.
I had to read that twice but
that's what I like about the Richmond 5 speeed approach-- real deep first, and 1:1 5th, couple it with a 2.76 or 2.45 rear, you get a stronger ring gear, coupled with a low driveshaft speed.
want to know why the crown vic police interceptors are electronically limited to under 130 MPH? driveshaft speed.
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: Passon 5 Speed
[Re: patrick]
#802973
09/28/10 10:52 AM
09/28/10 10:52 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
Fury Fan
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
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Another benefit of running 1:1 in fifth is that the shafts are all locked together (no gear mesh is in use) so gear wear is reduced and spin losses are minimized. The flip side of getting a deeper first gear is that one of the gears has to get smaller (reducing torque capacity) or the gearbox has to get bigger to maintain gear sizes. It's all a tradeoff. 
Last edited by Fury Fan; 09/28/10 10:53 AM.
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Re: Passon 5 Speed
[Re: JamiePasson]
#802974
09/28/10 10:59 AM
09/28/10 10:59 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
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Quote:
Ragtop,
This is where the numbers worked out to have virtually the same tailshaft rpm change between gears. I have had plenty of people balk at .75. We figure .70 is good overall.
Jamie
.75 isn't quite enough OD...IMHO...~.7 is about the best compromise. look at some of the more typical auto and manual OD's out there, they're all in that range (A500/518--.69, A833OD--.73, 700R4/4L60E--.73, etc)...
4.10's with a .7 is an effective 2.87 rear gear, .75 it's 308's....
so, with a 28" tall tire, 75mph (typical freeway speed in MI) would be 3700 RPM in 1:1, 2900 with a gear vendor's .78, 2800 with .75, 2600 with a .7, or 2400 with a TKO's .64....
for this combo, personally I like the .7 or .64....if it's still cranking along at near 3000 RPM at 75mph, like it would with a gear vendors or a .75, it doesn't seem worth it.
now, if the gears had been designed such that you had say, a 3.3 first, then .75 would be a nice OD to couple with a 3.55, and still have the first gear multiplication of a 4.10 with a 2.85 first, but a reduction in driveshaft speed....
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: Passon 5 Speed
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#802978
09/29/10 09:21 AM
09/29/10 09:21 AM
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 869
Sugarloaf, PA. USA
JamiePasson
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 869
Sugarloaf, PA. USA
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Scott, Not to derail the thread, but you did a good job derailing the thread! I am just teasing you. I know what is involved with making stuff as I am sure that many others out there know as well. Making driveline stuff is even more difficult than trim pieces that just need to sit there and look pretty. I am not taking away from those pieces by any means. I certainly have no intention of this item being vaporware. We have a tremendous investment thusfar on this project. I plan on seeing it throught. Jamie
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Re: Passon 5 Speed
[Re: JamiePasson]
#802979
09/29/10 10:32 AM
09/29/10 10:32 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 304
Ohio
LS-300
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 304
Ohio
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Jammie keep up the good work. I currently have what I call a long term project. It's a 68 Barracuda notch and I got it without an engine or tranny. It's set-up for a manual. That being said the long term is getting all the body work done, interior redone and getting a 5.7l Hemi and a 5sp to power it. I'm so glad someone decided to make one that doesn't require major modifications to the underside of the car. This is one reason I have only been looking at the 5sp set-ups. I'm glad you are taking you time designing this as we know what happens when new items are rushed to market.
Thanks,
1979 Chrysler 300
1968 Barracuda project
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Re: Passon 5 Speed
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#802980
09/29/10 12:22 PM
09/29/10 12:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,085
NotRussia
2fast4yourBrain
Whack top Dodger
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Whack top Dodger
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,085
NotRussia
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Quote:
Not to derail the topic of Jamie's excellent 5 speed trans thread but....
Quote:
I just hope it's not vaporware like the repop '71 'Cuda grille.
In fairness to Mike he was simply posting in an effort to do a feasability study on the 71 Cuda grilles by getting a feel for demand and feedback from potential customers, I don't recall him making any delivery promises or saying he had any plans to go into production, did I miss something?
Carry on..
Mike's initial post for feelers for this grille was:
Wed Feb 04 2009
And so it takes 1.5 years to finally say...NOPE; NOT DOING IT!?!?!?
C'mon!
I sure hope Passon makes this trans, but if I recall, it's supposed to be available now, but now it's going to be another year:
"I am hoping for Spring of 2010 for release. As for price, I am not saying anything just yet, but I can say it will be fair. No greediness here. "
Once bitten, twice shy. Ya know what I mean?
Last edited by ragtopdodge; 09/29/10 12:33 PM.
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Re: Passon 5 Speed
[Re: JamiePasson]
#802983
09/29/10 03:53 PM
09/29/10 03:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,017
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,017
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Jeeze Ragtop,
You must have been digging through the archives. I guess I look at it this way. I would rather be running behind than just half ass it and get it out there and deal with the problems as they arise. I don't think that is very smart. So, I apologize that I didn't make the Spring 2010 release date. We have been running into a ton of supply problems for hardware items. It seems like no one wants to make anything in this country anymore. So, when a vendor tells you it will be 4 weeks for a part and it ends up being 10 weeks, there isn't much we can do. Trust me, we are doing our very best here.
Jamie, you can't please everyone so don't even try .
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