I'd say the VIN tag was removed when the dash was painted; that's not the factory suede finish on the dash. Might not be anything nefarious going on, but those rivets/nails/whatever are definitely not correct. As Barry says, I'd sure want to confirm it's a legit car.
Okay, there is much more to this. First, I bought the car in February 1970 and for sure at that time nobody fooled with those rivets, nobody had worked in that area at that time. Second, 10 years ago the car was restored so, before sending the body to my painter, I sanded the backs of the rivets and removed the tag, that I replaced after painting. So I firmly believe those are the original rivets. Obviously the dash paint is mot original, kudos for detecting that! More differences coming soon, guys. By the way, the car is legit, but not 100% standard.
They sure do not look like any factory rivet I have seen. If they were you would think people would of seen more of them. Seems like you are questioning if they are authentic .
It almost looks like an inverted/deformed rosette…is the other one the same? You’ve owned since ‘70 so no messing there…I almost doubt they’d stop the line because of bad rivet(s)…while the worker would have to grab a set of correct ones? Just my thought…J code so I see your concern too…
Im curious to see what the answer to this is. The line wouldn't use one off rivets and it's highly doubtful they'd run out so if it is factory there would be more like these around. They also wouldn't be installed like normal rivets so it's introducing a whole different process to install it. The vin tag looks like it's scratched up around them like there was other ones there before but that could be from when it was removed before for the restoration.
Im curious to see what the answer to this is. The line wouldn't use one off rivets and it's highly doubtful they'd run out so if it is factory there would be more like these around. They also wouldn't be installed like normal rivets so it's introducing a whole different process to install it. The vin tag looks like it's scratched up around them like there was other ones there before but that could be from when it was removed before for the restoration.
This^ how would you flair it on the bottom side without a support like a "bucking bar"? It looks like a "nail" rivet that would need to go into something thicker than a sheet metal hole to work. Unless it's a rossett rivet with some filler or something closing the center hole???
Yes, both rivets are identical. The tag has the original finish, so I would think that if one claimed that a 50 and more year old tag survived without scratches I would seriously consider it as a joke. My opinion, of course.
Beside the "riviet". Zoomed into the pic you posted, it appears the "rivet" may be smaller diameter than the scrapes? Was the dash repainted and Tag reinstalled? WTH is the hair or whatever to the left of "Rivet"? Has the black field oxididized and been repainted? I played around with filters on the pic in photo editor and is anyone seeing a digit "3" under the number 1? Lastly should the tip of the pentastar be centered under the 5 digit? I'm no vin expert yet have looked and many legit and learn a lot from what to watch out for on these pages. It would be interesting to see the back side of the rivets.
Two high dollar cars, two “strange rivets.” Now why would that be?
Anybody remember Gone in Sixty Seconds? No, not that one. The first one. People were doing, uh, things, back in the day. Totally possible those things happened to a hemi roadrunner in 1970.
I want my fair share
Re: Strange rivets
[Re: Sniper]
#3124938 02/27/2312:30 AM02/27/2312:30 AM
Rivets have holes in the middle so the rivet gun can work correctly and move the ferrule up to crunch the rivet in place, those are not rivets...
Guess you never heard of solid rivets? You statement is correct about POP rivets though.
Sorry I didn't specify POP which is what was used on ALL VIN tags. It obviously looks to me that the "rivets" were removed from the top side once, that explains the scratches around the "rivet". Who knows if it was done at the factory, but for sure those are NOT factory style "rivets"...
Last edited by Rhinodart; 02/27/2312:31 AM.
The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it.
JB Rhinehart, Realist
A-Body's RULE!
Re: Strange rivets
[Re: srt]
#3124940 02/27/2312:34 AM02/27/2312:34 AM
Beside the "riviet". Zoomed into the pic you posted, it appears the "rivet" may be smaller diameter than the scrapes? Was the dash repainted and Tag reinstalled? WTH is the hair or whatever to the left of "Rivet"? Has the black field oxididized and been repainted? I played around with filters on the pic in photo editor and is anyone seeing a digit "3" under the number 1? Lastly should the tip of the pentastar be centered under the 5 digit? I'm no vin expert yet have looked and many legit and learn a lot from what to watch out for on these pages. It would be interesting to see the back side of the rivets.
Good catch. That 1 doesn’t look clean like the rest of the digits pictured. Would be interesting to see whole tag. The Pentastar on my car is centered under 5th digit. A 69 lynch rd car.
Factory? Not factory? It is indeed different than any other riveted VIN tag I've ever seen in this era. The only way this has a ghost of a chance of being resolved is a photo of the backside. And even then it may go unresolved.
"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
How about broadcast sheets and fender tag availability to compare? The pic posted leaves a lot of unknown. My post and others are not questioning what you posted, just the anomalies observed.
The Line worker has a special rivit gun. It runs off air has a compartment for the cast off metal post. The rivits are all attached to a Stickie flypaper type of holder that feeds into the rivit gun. You tear off one side of the paper and feed it into the gun. Now I have not seen every plant so did all plants use the same format to put the VIN on the dash.There is a very slight difference between General Motors and Chrysler Rivits, nothing physical except color on the posts once rivited to the dash.Never looked at Ford and how their VIN is attached. I believe the VIN rivits were mandated by the Government on all new Vehicles. Not sure the first year Chrysler used them but someone with a pre 1968 car could tell one more if their car had the flowery rivits.
It would be a pain in the butt ti change them now, not sure if there is enough room to fit a gun in between the window and the dash. So if no room your choice is pull the window or pull the dash.
That's a fender tag if I'm not mistaken and not like what the '69 Lynch Road Assembly production version would end up as. It looks like it has a Scheduled Production Date (SPD) of July 28, 1968 which would go along with the very low VIN and number in the lower right. Also there is no bend of the upper left corner of the tag which is correct for Lynch Road fender tags and unpainted mounting screws is correct also. The car should have black door buttons too. Pretty cool
Mike: you are essentially correct! My tag was never bent and the number 960012 represents a sequence in the designation 96XXXX used for special cars.. The only incorrect thing is the fact that, back in the 70’s, I fell victim of the mania of the moment, i.e. I chrome plated the screws.
This is in answer to member rbmopar who asked how I ended up with my car:apparently in a private reply you cannot post photos for some reason, so here I can do that. Here is a photo of my rr just after I bought it. Obviously I cannot say if the black stripes were a factory job or were added by the dealership.Interestingly, the hood vents are black, not red. I have a small rr book where the author claims that the first black stripes had black vents in 69, so that is that.
This is in answer to member rbmopar who asked how I ended up with my car:apparently in a private reply you cannot post photos for some reason, so here I can do that. Here is a photo of my rr just after I bought it. Obviously I cannot say if the black stripes were a factory job or were added by the dealership.Interestingly, the hood vents are black, not red. I have a small rr book where the author claims that the first black stripes had black vents in 69, so that is that.
Does the car have the "Air Grabber" fresh air option? Being a HEMI it would have had the Air Grabber as standard equipment and should have had the red grille hood scoop vents. Maybe that decision hadn't been made yet?
The owner stated on another post the post with the funky looking dash VIN tag rivets that he bought the car February of 70. So the car was able to be played with for a year and a half before he bought it.
It's a pretty cool car regardless. Surely a good candidate to keep it as it is if possible. I would leave the vin rivets as they are and if possible not repaint anything else.
Was the passenger side fender (or more) recently repainted when the early pic taken? I think it would be interesting to check a lot of date codes of parts on the car.
Re: Strange rivets II
[Re: srt]
#3126062 03/02/2310:51 PM03/02/2310:51 PM
I learned that the car was used as a demo car at the dealership in Georgia. It apparently was drag raced by the salesmen at a local dragway. When I got it domes body parts had been repaired or replaced for sure, but now who knows for sure. Back in the summer of 1970 I was driving on a bad road, had to make a fast stop and the rr veered and hit a pole. The repairs cost me $500 plus and I still have the receipt so one could find what was replaced at that time. For the record.
Yes the Air Grabber is there, but it’s slightly d different, of course,
This '69 Hemi Super Bee with a SPD of January 2, 1969 had an orange Air Grabber and so did a promo sales feature '69 Road Runner convertible and a '69 GTX in the same sales feature slide show promo. (and BTW orange hood scoop intake grilles, and an orange (painted??) AG to air filter lid/tray rubber seal on the RR?)
Mike
Re: Strange rivets II
[Re: A12]
#3126095 03/03/2302:05 AM03/03/2302:05 AM
I like to hear and see the history of these lower production high performance cars. I know many were not treated kindly when new(er) as buyers had them for a good reason. Little details found during restoration often hint and a cars history, yet documents, parts, #'s and verbal history are irreplaceable. I respect seeing oem restos, though not as much as those lesser fussed over. Example: those strange rivets. Kudos to Robertop for posting this.
Re: Strange rivets II
[Re: srt]
#3126097 03/03/2302:28 AM03/03/2302:28 AM
I like to hear and see the history of these lower production high performance cars. I know many were not treated kindly when new(er) as buyers had them for a good reason. Little details found during restoration often hint and a cars history, yet documents, parts, #'s and verbal history are irreplaceable. I respect seeing oem restos, though not as much as those lesser fussed over. Example: those strange rivets. Kudos to Robertop for posting this.
Re: Strange rivets II
[Re: srt]
#3126160 03/03/2312:27 PM03/03/2312:27 PM
I like to hear and see the history of these lower production high performance cars. I know many were not treated kindly when new(er) as buyers had them for a good reason. Little details found during restoration often hint and a cars history, yet documents, parts, #'s and verbal history are irreplaceable. I respect seeing oem restos, though not as much as those lesser fussed over. Example: those strange rivets. Kudos to Robertop for posting this.
For starters are the rivets. One would think if this was a norm you would have documentation supporting this. Same with the fender tag. Cool car none the less.
The documentation on my car is being done in another venue, so everybody has to wait for now. For the record- my record-I have more oddities about my car, coming. For those who believe I am a liar and a frond, you will find out that at least I am a very thorough one!q
So what do the back of those rivets actually look like? Even without the special VIN rivets you'd think that if it wasn't installed with the car running down a normal assembly line they'd have at least used normal pop rivets unless the VIN was going on at a time that they couldn't easily get a riveter in there and the furniture tack looking ones was the best way someone came up with to install it.
It's an interesting car none the less and at least when you've owned it as long as you have it makes things easier to at least track how long things have been a certain way rather then someone buying it now and not knowing what's happened in the last 64 years with it.
Re: Strange rivets II
[Re: 5thAve]
#3126244 03/03/2308:26 PM03/03/2308:26 PM
It's an interesting car none the less and at least when you've owned it as long as you have it makes things easier to at least track how long things have been a certain way rather then someone buying it now and not knowing what's happened in the last 64 years with it.
Agree but that would be the last fifty-four (54) years...........had to count on my fingers to make sure I didn't age another ten years since I bought my first car in '69, a '69 Road Runner too.
Mike
Re: Strange rivets II
[Re: 5thAve]
#3126297 03/03/2311:12 PM03/03/2311:12 PM
So what do the back of those rivets actually look like? Even without the special VIN rivets you'd think that if it wasn't installed with the car running down a normal assembly line they'd have at least used normal pop rivets unless the VIN was going on at a time that they couldn't easily get a riveter in there and the furniture tack looking ones was the best way someone came up with to install it.
It's an interesting car none the less and at least when you've owned it as long as you have it makes things easier to at least track how long things have been a certain way rather then someone buying it now and not knowing what's happened in the last 64 years with it.
Poster said he was getting some outside verification of what he has. Not sure who that would be.
Re: Strange rivets II
[Re: A12]
#3126325 03/04/2312:41 AM03/04/2312:41 AM
It's an interesting car none the less and at least when you've owned it as long as you have it makes things easier to at least track how long things have been a certain way rather then someone buying it now and not knowing what's happened in the last 64 years with it.
Agree but that would be the last fifty-four (54) years...........had to count on my fingers to make sure I didn't age another ten years since I bought my first car in '69, a '69 Road Runner too.
Mike
I was taken a-back momentarily as I read that too.
Re: Strange rivets II
[Re: srt]
#3126335 03/04/2301:03 AM03/04/2301:03 AM
Oh, the build sheet. I forgot about that. Hera is what was under the front bench seat. Enjoy!
If you were so sure of what you have you would not be fishing here looking for nut huggers. I remember a Ripley guy here like that years ago. Until you post the proof no one knows not even you. till then its.
as if this place did not have enough naysayers of odd stuff. Robertop Perhaps Dave can check date codes and such of the plastic and other non wear parts. I zoomed into the pic of the rosette (your first pic) and is sure appears there was some scuffing under it.Ever check the diameter of the existing pin and scuff circumference. I read you (can't recall exact word) replaced with the rivets removed. A careful look at pic and you may see what I'm seeing. Rises the thought tag r&r prior to your ownership. I can't see that type of "stud or nail" having a typical expanded fitment. What is the diameter of the pin part? and how was it attached? Has the windshield been r&r (date code and rubber seal checked). I have heard of cars destroyed by Chrysler after their intended purpose (fact? fiction?). I wonder if there is the chance some corporate had a hand in the creation after press use and prior to your ownership? Anyone know if press cars were assigned vin?
Galen is one that likely could shed some light on the build since really is a B Body person. There are others that I know might be able to share some information about early built B Bodies. I try to contact a few of them to see what they know.
Galen Govier has[u][/u] known about my car many years ago, even if I never contacted him personally. I was in Brazelton, Ga. at a Year One meeting and he asked me if my rr was blue and was there, so I answered him yes and no. He gave me a small fluorescent green pen that I still have. I never asked how he knew that.
About those blessed rivets, here is what I did. After disassembling the body before painting, I could seethe back of a the rivets I wanted to remove. They looked like what a normal rivet would look. just a hole in the center with a cringlet of bent-over metal around. Sanding that with a Dremel’ was easy andI removed them. To reinstall them, I soldered a short piece of copper rod to the ends, put them back and J-B welded them to the back qagain. I evidently did not put them exactly at the same angle with respect to the tag, and that is probably why you can see amall scratches around the heads. My bad! As far as the windshield, I don’t remember if the painter ever removed it, but I doubt it. The gasket is original. The windshield still has a 1982 Georgia inspection sticker.
Galen Govier has[u][/u] known about my car many years ago, even if I never contacted him personally. I was in Brazelton, Ga. at a Year One meeting and he asked me if my rr was blue and was there, so I answered him yes and no. He gave me a small fluorescent green pen that I still have. I never asked how he knew that.
Well if Galen already knows your car as well as yourself why are you not getting his evaluation as to your cars pedigree.
Here is the confusing part to me. Is this a game? You could of explained the rivets from the first posting. You seem to know all about the car already so whats the end game here? Is it time to sell the car and now draw attention? Looking for backup validation?
Obviously its a rare car and very cool but at least to me how all the info is posted and questions asked with already known answers makes this rings more like "Lets see what the dumb smucks know" when you already know or have the answers to your questions.
Its great of you to share your car with us here but it all seems very odd the way your going about it.
Originally Posted by robertop
About those blessed rivets, here is what I did. After disassembling the body before painting, I could seethe back of a the rivets I wanted to remove. They looked like what a normal rivet would look. just a hole in the center with a cringlet of bent-over metal around. Sanding that with a Dremel’ was easy andI removed them. To reinstall them, I soldered a short piece of copper rod to the ends, put them back and J-B welded them to the back qagain. I evidently did not put them exactly at the same angle with respect to the tag, and that is probably why you can see amall scratches around the heads. My bad! As far as the windshield, I don’t remember if the painter ever removed it, but I doubt it. The gasket is original. The windshield still has a 1982 Georgia inspection sticker.
I kept from posting what I thought about this expedition as it seemed pointless to encourage it. Since the owner seems to want to play with the crowd, now I’ll say that car likely has been rebuilt after a front end wreck. Explains a whole lot about that car if you view it that way. How it was done is the most intriguing part.
I have seen some very nasty remarks about GG on this website for years. Nothing against him as far as I am concerned .I don’t need to have my car authenticated to make me feel better, I could have done it before. My car was finished 10 years ago, meanwhile my auto interests have changed somewhat from 1970. Since 1982 I have bought 4 (horror!) corvettes and my car, still my baby, has become more important than I ever expected, since the painter himself noticed all the major oddities. My main reason for these posts was to have Mopar experts give an idea of the car value, but I have absolutely no intention to sell it. By the way, don’t call me normal, I consider it an insult. Truly.
I kept from posting what I thought about this expedition as it seemed pointless to encourage it. Since the owner seems to want to play with the crowd, now I’ll say that car likely has been rebuilt after a front end wreck. Explains a whole lot about that car if you view it that way. How it was done is the most intriguing part.
It's tough to tell anything about the car without more info. I find it difficult to imagine welding anything to the back of a little rosette, but that is me. The op has owned the car going on 53 years and sounds to have done little save for "restore" 10 years ago. A lot may still be present to put together what happened early on and certainly a car such as this hopefully had any work or replacement of parts memorialized during the "resto". Hopefully Dave will help Robertop understand what he has and the info is recorded.. Car will likely be around after a lot of us are not involved. re: the value, it's going to be what a buyer and seller agree on. Lacking selling best you can do is get an insurance appraisal. Numbers, and date codes on the car will help. The more replaced over the years perhaps less. I feel posting old pic and half a unique vin tag and the build sheet does not do much. Nearby experts can help verify.
I have seen some very nasty remarks about GG on this website for years. Nothing against him as far as I am concerned .I don’t need to have my car authenticated to make me feel better, I could have done it before. My car was finished 10 years ago, meanwhile my auto interests have changed somewhat from 1970. Since 1982 I have bought 4 (horror!) corvettes and my car, still my baby, has become more important than I ever expected, since the painter himself noticed all the major oddities. My main reason for these posts was to have Mopar experts give an idea of the car value, but I have absolutely no intention to sell it. By the way, don’t call me normal, I consider it an insult. Truly.
Play your games at a day care for senile seniors. Your car is unique and is not documented so no one will give a price. You want to know you need to have a trusted source see it and note its validity. Myself this car had a bad young history and I will bet an inspection will prove it.
My last thoughts at this time based on the vague info and unique story. If galen knows the car, it's likely in a registry. OP never said if he has the car in a registry, nor if he belonged to nhoa or any other group where the vin was registered.
Question of the Lynch Road fender tag: originally was it painted or unpainted before you had the car re-painted?? (You don't know how many times over the last couple of decades I've asked that question )
Re: Strange rivets
[Re: srt]
#3126632 03/05/2306:17 AM03/05/2306:17 AM
Now we are talking! My car is the second car in the registry, the only Hemi car. In regards to the old NHOA I was a member since1978 and I still have a stack of newsletters to prove that. I actually bought from Jim O. some original decals and a big round silver elephant sticker that is still somewhere in my house.
The way the transition to the raised rib where the top edge transitions to quarter window: looks to have been filled in with filler. Lets put some torque to that car and see how it looks after a few runs.
but it can on my A12 RR and pretty sure it was Y4 Spanish Gold originally and a RM21 coupe/post car with no filler (solder) in the center of the VIN plate rivets like I suspected from the git go when I saw them.
Understood. If the press preview heritage can be verified, then is is possible it was pulled from line and filled in during body in white and completed after? Even if filled with plastic/lead it would be interesting to verify. Pull the back seat panels and have a look in there. May be able to tell if originally there, and refinished during resto. I find it curious it's not cracked and fractured. That era b body was prone to cracking in that area especially if the car was put through it's paces.
Thank you for your answer guys. Most of you got it right. As somebody mentioned after a repaint nothing is factory anymore. I used a painter with a reputation and he pointed out that he had no reason to modify anything and told me that other areas were finished better than normal, maybe because the car was to be shown to the press. There is no proof that is what happened. I remember he said something about the inside of the trunk lid, but Ido not have a picture of a stock 69 roadrunner to compare at this time.
Thank you for your answer guys. Most of you got it right. As somebody mentioned after a repaint nothing is factory anymore. I used a painter with a reputation and he pointed out that he had no reason to modify anything and told me that other areas were finished better than normal, maybe because the car was to be shown to the press. There is no proof that is what happened. I remember he said something about the inside of the trunk lid, but I do not have a picture of a stock 69 roadrunner to compare at this time.
But I do show me yours's and I'll show you m...................wait that doesn't sound good
Thank you for your answer guys. Most of you got it right. As somebody mentioned after a repaint nothing is factory anymore. I used a painter with a reputation and he pointed out that he had no reason to modify anything and told me that other areas were finished better than normal, maybe because the car was to be shown to the press. There is no proof that is what happened. I remember he said something about the inside of the trunk lid, but I do not have a picture of a stock 69 roadrunner to compare at this time.
But I do show me yours's and I'll show you m...................wait that doesn't sound good
Any difference between a 69 and 68, trunk lid that is? Initially I wondered about the rear quarter markers, after noticing the markers on the front.
Here is the confusing part to me. Is this a game? You could of explained the rivets from the first posting. You seem to know all about the car already so whats the end game here? Is it time to sell the car and now draw attention? Looking for backup validation?
Obviously its a rare car and very cool but at least to me how all the info is posted and questions asked with already known answers makes this rings more like "Lets see what the dumb smucks know" when you already know or have the answers to your questions.
Its great of you to share your car with us here but it all seems very odd the way your going about it.
I'm starting to agree more and more with this. This is starting to turn into a show and tell of bits and pieces. It would be a lot more interesting and make more sense to see all of these special differences.
Dang, was just ready to list my last most rare of the rare vin rivets. But the upside it I can now see if the wife has any feeling left in her feet.
Really cool car... too bad someone really seems to of jacked up so many things on it.
No one had the forethought to take any pre resto pics? Most do.
Originally Posted by A12
Originally Posted by Sniper
It's already been "restored" once.
Nothing can be taken as factory on it.
but it can on my A12 RR and pretty sure it was Y4 Spanish Gold originally and a RM21 coupe/post car with no filler (solder) in the center of the VIN plate rivets like I suspected from the git go when I saw them.
Well, here's a stock, 17,000-mile unrestored '69 RR's trunk lid. SPD 2/12/69, St Louis. '68-'69, there were 2 versions of the underside: a panel with cut-outs, and the full panel. OP's car has base interior but Decor Group B-pillar caps. Those caps were available separately, but that's extremely rare. I've seen the cracking mentioned on 1 or 2 HT B-pillars, but not on Coupes. What I've seen of the subject car so far indicates a past incorrect restoration, and likely some major repairs early in its life. I'm not buying special bodywork by the factory; I don't recall seeing a similar car in any of the early road tests or the traveling caravan Plymouth had.
Well, here's a stock, 17,000-mile unrestored '69 RR's trunk lid. SPD 2/12/69, St Louis. '68-'69, there were 2 versions of the underside: a panel with cut-outs, and the full panel. OP's car has base interior but Decor Group B-pillar caps. Those caps were available separately, but that's extremely rare. I've seen the cracking mentioned on 1 or 2 HT B-pillars, but not on Coupes. What I've seen of the subject car so far indicates a past incorrect restoration, and likely some major repairs early in its life. I'm not buying special bodywork by the factory; I don't recall seeing a similar car in any of the early road tests or the traveling caravan Plymouth had.
It's good to keep info exchange. THe quarter skin will crack where it transitions into the jamb. It would be interesting to see if the torque on a post car would result in cracking there. If the incorrect resto prevails I'd say this car has lead a pretty pampered if not mostly stationary life. Again info exchange to find out more.
Re: Strange rivets
[Re: srt]
#3126873 03/06/2312:18 AM03/06/2312:18 AM
What option got you the b pillar caps without the A87?
Yes the A87 option would get you the bright B-pillar molding BUT it would also get you the "Decor" interior with rear arm rests with ashtrays, etc and the high-grade seat covers which it appears not to have. The M07 stand alone molding option would get you just the bright B-pillar molding.
Mike
Re: Strange rivets
[Re: A12]
#3126880 03/06/2301:30 AM03/06/2301:30 AM
Not sure, yet it is shown as an (E) extra cost option on pg 26 of the Dealership Data Book Here <- Click On page 30 it indicated (by lack of an *) it was available outside of the complete ""Decor Package" along with "rear Armrests with Ash Receiver". I no expert of the nuances of ordering, yet believe the above. I see 33 mo. back you looked at a green rr with the same trim/ and w/o decor. Hope the above helps. fwiw I'm not certain and would have to look through a bunch of old pics: there was green rr that came out to some gatherings in the sf bay area in the late 80's driven by the son of original owner (had passed away) it must have been parked in a narrow garage as there were scrapes and dents the entire length of both sides. I believe the car had the bright b pillar covers (and can't honestly recall if it had the decor pkg. I was typing when you two exchanged info. In the linked pages it's interesting about the front seats. Decor pkg available only on post car, and buckets or vinyl bench (available in pkg only - noted on pg 30).
Re: Strange rivets
[Re: srt]
#3126886 03/06/2302:47 AM03/06/2302:47 AM
There's a few things that I would like to know about like the "double stripe" S- standard on a Sport Satellite that I have never seen??? The double stripe is not available on any other model but standard on the Sport Satellite? Or is this for '68 models which after looking at it again appears to be as it list a S- standard reflective stripe for the GTX which there was but the reflective stripe on my '69 GTX was E-extra? This must be for '68 B-body models.
Last edited by A12; 03/06/2302:51 AM.
Re: Strange rivets
[Re: srt]
#3126896 03/06/2306:53 AM03/06/2306:53 AM
Not sure, yet it is shown as an (E) extra cost option on pg 26 of the Dealership Data Book Here <- Click On page 30 it indicated (by lack of an *) it was available outside of the complete ""Decor Package" along with "rear Armrests with Ash Receiver". I no expert of the nuances of ordering, yet believe the above. I see 33 mo. back you looked at a green rr with the same trim/ and w/o decor. Hope the above helps. fwiw I'm not certain and would have to look through a bunch of old pics: there was green rr that came out to some gatherings in the sf bay area in the late 80's driven by the son of original owner (had passed away) it must have been parked in a narrow garage as there were scrapes and dents the entire length of both sides. I believe the car had the bright b pillar covers (and can't honestly recall if it had the decor pkg. I was typing when you two exchanged info. In the linked pages it's interesting about the front seats. Decor pkg available only on post car, and buckets or vinyl bench (available in pkg only - noted on pg 30).
I remember that car. It had the decor seats and no b pillar trim. Tag didn’t match the resto and was a lynch rd car so limited intell on it to begin with.
The car came with the lighting package, chrome b pillar covers, chrome door top edges, Super Track Pak, power steering, 3-speed windshield wipers, and Deluxe 3-spoke steering wheel.a
.
Strange rivets#3126911 03/06/2309:53 AM03/06/2309:53 AM
One more thing: the negative battery cable was attached to the long bolt that holds the power steering box. The cable in the photo is a Frank Badalson part, a very good reproduction. The original cable obviously has no engine pint , since it was installed long after the engine was painted.
That makes no sense to me at all as the reason it was painted was it was attached to a bare or unpainted engine block or intake manifold to make a good GROUND. Attaching it to an already painted power steering pump bracket or even a painted engine/intake point would be asking for trouble IMO. Not buying that the factory did that.
The car came with the lighting package, chrome b pillar covers, chrome door top edges, Super Track Pak, power steering, 3-speed windshield wipers, and Deluxe 3-spoke steering wheel.a
.
It had to have a 3-speed wiper because with the standard with a Hemi "Air Grabber" big oval air cleaner cover the 2-speed wiper motor was too close to it, in fact I think it even hits it. I also thought because of the weight of the Hemi engine power steering was standard too? Also I thought it was either an optional wood grain three spoke steering wheel or the standard Deluxe 3-spoke for '69 and no base 3-spoke like the taxi cab base '68 RR steering wheel? The A01 light package had the delayed ignition key light, map light, trunk light, glove box light and console courtesy lights if equipped with a C16. Chrome door top edges? Do you mean "Belt Molding"?? (M31) like my Y4 A122 above?................and why another new thread for a ground cable
Re: Strange rivets
[Re: A12]
#3126935 03/06/2311:23 AM03/06/2311:23 AM
There's a few things that I would like to know about like the "double stripe" S- standard on a Sport Satellite that I have never seen??? The double stripe is not available on any other model but standard on the Sport Satellite? Or is this for '68 models which after looking at it again appears to be as it list a S- standard reflective stripe for the GTX which there was but the reflective stripe on my '69 GTX was E-extra? This must be for '68 B-body models.
yes, my bad. I had checked the 68 and 69 for b pillar molding and copied wrong tab for link. Here is correct <- Click. Fortunately the b pillar molding was avail both years as (E). I wonder about early production cars using prior year parts, this the reason (I had a couple tabs open) hoping whoever looks the car over inspects those items.
PS optional regardless of engine - I've had 2 Hemi RRs with manual steering. Sport Satellite striping was unique to that trim level, was lower on the body - visible in '69 brochure. Decor Group on RRs brought interior up to the Satellite trim that was included on HTs, BUT: Around 1985-6 I looked at an apparently original '69 RR HT that had the base interior, low-option car. It was a red car, black interior, 4-speed, low-option, in Burbank CA. To date - and from when they were introduced - it's the only such anomaly I've ever seen. That said, a buddy back then bought an original '68 Super Bee from its original owner, who'd had the dealer swap its black seats & door cards for white.
Well, I remember many years ago I was reading few articles from an important expert that I will not name about these cars were put together at the factory. In one article he said it was a known fact that in the beginning some mechanics used to put the ground cable where mine is, and in another article he denied that. So take your pick. I have to agree that is kind of stupid, if they did it, because there is a chance of a bad contact! On the other hand, I drove the car daily for 10 years with no such problem…..
Thinking about this car. emission controls? headrests? shoulder/seat, or seat belts? resonator hangars? k frame, wiper motor, trunk lip and rad bulkhead? There is likely more to add beside dates of various original parts present. When "restored" was used above a lot of this stuff should have been documented. Surely op knew what he had going into the work.
Reply to srt: I don’ t think there were any emission controls in 1968. The car has no headrests and has the full set of shoulder and lap belts. I bought a ECS exhaust and the resonators and mufflers from Accurate, but the bends in the latter parts are not right for the exhaust, so I will install them later. The resonator hangers are still there and are original from the time I got the car. The k member is original, you have to explain what the trunk lip is, but the original gasket is still there. Lastly. The radiator support was damaged in an early accident andI when I bought another one, I realized it was a 68 type, not 69, and that’s what is in now.
Reply to srt: I don’ t think there were any emission controls in 1968.
just an FYI, there most certainly were federally mandated emissions controls in 1968. Some states like Ca. were stricter that the Feds. Chrysler was able t get by using what they called a "Clean Air Package" avoiding things like smog pumps etc. well into the 70's
You are right, TIP, apparently in Ca. you could not get chrome exhaust tips for 69, or so I have been told; call those “emission controls”, if you will. For Ga. it was different, but you are correct.
idk how widespread (vs only CAP) the vac advance on 68's is apparent on CA Hemis (and other?) chrysler hp cars. Big write-up here /click It was common the factory stuff was torn off and lost. In the mid and late1980's anyone obtaining a smog certificate transferring a so equipped car had a kit installed that basically plugged the dist vac port and the mechanical advance had to be relied upon. p.s. Fuel for thought. If the car was not pieced together and vin swap early on, seems it might not a have been intended a sellable/licensable car when it was reviewed by the press as it had no head-rests. THey became manditory Jan 1 '69.
I thought the turn downs were a noise control thing, not emissions
Exactly, along with a dual snorkel "silenced" air filter cover on most vehicles.
What year were the ca cars sold like this? I thought 69, but I’ve seen something’s suggesting it was 1970. With the dual snorkel and the turndowns that is.
I thought the turn downs were a noise control thing, not emissions
Exactly, along with a dual snorkel "silenced" air filter cover on most vehicles.
What year were the ca cars sold like this? I thought 69, but I’ve seen something’s suggesting it was 1970. With the dual snorkel and the turndowns that is.
My '69 LA built and LA area (Norwalk, CA) originally sold GTX had a dual snorkel air cleaner cover and no exhaust tips. Sure it was '69 and then in 1970+ California EVAP required the snorkels have vacuum closures to minimize carburetor float bowl fumes from exiting out the air filter cover inlets (snorkels) and the closing hood scoops when the engine was turned off (no vacuum).
(I have since put an unsilenced air filter cover on the GTX and exhaust tips)
That’s the conclusion I came to with my 69. The exhaust tip hanger bolt holes look like nothing has ever been in them. It has an unsilenced cleaner now and I plan to out tips on. Just doesn’t look right without them.
A couple of my '69 RRs had no tips - CA cars - and one had the dual snorkel (AC car); the other (335hp) the air cleaner was missing when I bought it. Both were Decor cars, being HTs. Both built in St Louis. The '69 Decor RR I have now (SD car when new) has tips, but AG. Also from the St Louis plant. All my '68 RRs I can recall or have now (CA cars except one from NV) had unsilenced air cleaners, and 1 Decor car had the tips, but it was originally from CO. Non-decor = no tips. One of my '68 Chargers (R/T) had tips, the non-R/T 383/4bbl didn't until I added them, but oddly I don't recall tips or not on a couple of '69 Chargers I owned (project cars). Both CA cars. Can't recall their air cleaners for certain, but I think my '68 383's was unsilenced. Both had AC. All the above were/are original cars. If a car was dealer-swapped from out of State into CA, it might have had 49-state items instead of the CA noise reduction items. Funny thing is that I recall the LAPD Belvederes being pretty loud when the cops would charge down the street.
A couple of my '69 RRs had no tips - CA cars - and one had the dual snorkel (AC car); the other (335hp) the air cleaner was missing when I bought it. Both were Decor cars, being HTs. Both built in St Louis. The '69 Decor RR I have now (SD car when new) has tips, but AG. Also from the St Louis plant. All my '68 RRs I can recall or have now (CA cars except one from NV) had unsilenced air cleaners, and 1 Decor car had the tips, but it was originally from CO. Non-decor = no tips. One of my '68 Chargers (R/T) had tips, the non-R/T 383/4bbl didn't until I added them, but oddly I don't recall tips or not on a couple of '69 Chargers I owned (project cars). Both CA cars. Can't recall their air cleaners for certain, but I think my '68 383's was unsilenced. Both had AC. All the above were/are original cars. If a car was dealer-swapped from out of State into CA, it might have had 49-state items instead of the CA noise reduction items. Funny thing is that I recall the LAPD Belvederes being pretty loud when the cops would charge down the street.
I would bet a lot of California dealers both Plymouth and Dodge ordered by the truck load the unsilenced air cleaner covers and exhaust tips knowing a customer would want to buy and add those items. Like buying a motorcycle and adding a performance exhaust on day one or day two.
A12 - I suppose that's possible. The cars I had with tips had no evidence of post-factory modification, though. I'm thinking either the cars were re-directed, or dealer-traded, or the regulations were effective Jan 1st (as opposed to model year), as so other regs many were. Most of my cars were bought from older "regular" folks, not performance-minded people. No way to prove the air cleaners one way or the other, though everything seemed the same age - I've always avoided pieced-together cars.
Re: Strange rivets
[Re: Sniper]
#3129537 03/15/2302:22 AM03/15/2302:22 AM
Federal mandatory emissions requirements started in 1962 or maybe 1 or 2 years later with the PVC systems, 1966 Mopars had the little green vacuum advance emissions gadgets, several years later the fuel vapor return systems to the fuel tanks were installed by the factories, GM had the fresh air injection in either 1967 or 1968
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
You can see a number stamped and go to the next post 
 copy.jpg "Name: B6B806AC-920A-435A-B79E-816C54958370 (2) copy.jpg
Views: 435
Size: 26.04 KB
ID: 479767")
