Re: SETTING PINION DEPTH............
[Re: CMcAllister]
#2006757
02/06/16 02:57 PM
02/06/16 02:57 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,579 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,579
Fulton County, PA
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On the pinion bearings, I prefer to polish the journals on the pinion to get the fit I prefer; light enough that I can get the bearing on and off without damaging it. Light enough on the front bearing that it will go in and out with a light mallet. Then you're able to set it up with the bearings you're going to use. I find the bearing fit on new pinions to be all over the place depending on who made them. Some just need the coating polished off, others require more work for an acceptable fit. Tolerances seem to be all over the place on these parts these days.
Read it again. Don't make it a loose fit, just a medium or light press so you can get it apart without damaging the bearing. If you can get it apart or put it together by hand, you went too far, IMO. Front bearing can be lighter, sometimes they will go together by hand with all new parts. 1 or 2 thousandths make a difference in the pattern. I want to set it up with the parts I will be installing rather than have to fudge it. Tolerances on the parts are all over the place these days. If you have a spare gear set that you carry to the track, it should already have been set up with the correct shims and bearing on the pinion ready to go. When the pinion nut is tightened, the front race, spacer (or crush sleeve) and rear race and all pinched against the pinion head. You will burn the bearings up, weld everything together and twist the pinion in two before you turn a race on the shaft IF you didn't make it sloppy loose in the first place.
Last edited by CMcAllister; 02/06/16 03:00 PM.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: SETTING PINION DEPTH............
[Re: CMcAllister]
#2006778
02/06/16 03:17 PM
02/06/16 03:17 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317 State of confusion
Thumperdart
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I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
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State of confusion
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I only plan on removing a small amount and will still have a press fit or just set it up as is.......
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: SETTING PINION DEPTH............
[Re: Thumperdart]
#2006787
02/06/16 03:31 PM
02/06/16 03:31 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,579 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,579
Fulton County, PA
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I have found that if you are using a press that you are familiar with and have a "feel" for, you can tell how tight the press is with just a few pumps. If it's tight, you can still catch the inner race to pull it back off, rather than the cage. Don't slam the stuff together until you are satisfied with the fit. It should come off fairly easy with no deforming of the cage using a decent press.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: SETTING PINION DEPTH............
[Re: Thumperdart]
#2007112
02/07/16 01:00 AM
02/07/16 01:00 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,243 Charlotte, North Carolina
sgcuda
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,243
Charlotte, North Carolina
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I don't know why anyone would think the inner race would spin on the pinion shaft even if sanded down. The inner races of both pinion bearings are locked in place by the spacer and shims, which are sandwiched between the pinion gear front face and the pinion yoke.. Neither of which can change position.
[image][/image]
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Re: SETTING PINION DEPTH............
[Re: StealthWedge67]
#2007129
02/07/16 01:16 AM
02/07/16 01:16 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,175 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,175
PA.
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This type of thinking goes against everything I was taught or did as a Millwright for 33 years. We never wanted a cup and cone style bearing to be a slip fit but to each his own. Carry on. Lol
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: SETTING PINION DEPTH............
[Re: Thumperdart]
#2007197
02/07/16 03:05 AM
02/07/16 03:05 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890 North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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This isn't heavy industrial machinery. Its a center section in a race car.
And what was the particular reason of no slip fit?.........or was it just because somebody said so........LOL!!!
Last edited by Monte_Smith; 02/07/16 03:07 AM.
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Re: SETTING PINION DEPTH............
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2007276
02/07/16 12:36 PM
02/07/16 12:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,243 Charlotte, North Carolina
sgcuda
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,243
Charlotte, North Carolina
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This type of thinking goes against everything I was taught or did as a Millwright for 33 years. We never wanted a cup and cone style bearing to be a slip fit but to each his own. Carry on. Lol Think about the bearings on the front spindles of all of our own cars! None of them are press fit. They're not even a tight slip fit. Just a slide on fit. And after a bearing burns up and gouges the spindle, how many of us have just filed down the burrs on the spindle and put another bearing on when there was no resistance at all. These cars are still running at pretty high speed at the track, and I haven't seen any front wheels fly off yet.
[image][/image]
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Re: SETTING PINION DEPTH............
[Re: J_BODY]
#2007356
02/07/16 02:22 PM
02/07/16 02:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,243 Charlotte, North Carolina
sgcuda
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,243
Charlotte, North Carolina
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comparing the load characteristics of a wheel bearing to a pinion bearing??? COME ON MAN! Set your pinion bearing up "loose" like you mentioned that wheel bearing and let me know how that works. I realize the "loose bearing" crowd isn't talking "wheel bearing loose"... but throw some sort of disclaimer on that comparison. Think about what is being torqued down. The torque load on the pinion nut is holding an interference load between the two inside races and either a spacer and shim pack or a crush collar. As much as 150-250 lb. ft. But the turning torque is only 15-25 in. lbs. The inner race is what is locked down, against the pinion gear face and yoke. All I'm getting at is that the interference fit of the pinion shaft and inner bearing race surface isn't "that" critical, and can be modified for easier setup without compromising strength.
[image][/image]
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Re: SETTING PINION DEPTH............
[Re: sgcuda]
#2008010
02/08/16 05:01 PM
02/08/16 05:01 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317 State of confusion
Thumperdart
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OP
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So I ASSume now that I also need a smaller set up outer bearing as well as the inner since I may have to remove it again to get the pattern correct?
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: SETTING PINION DEPTH............
[Re: Thumperdart]
#2008066
02/08/16 06:18 PM
02/08/16 06:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,762 Hot Rod Ridge
FastmOp
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master
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Hot Rod Ridge
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I hone the inside of every pinion bearing when I build a rear end. You only remove .0005, then it still knocks off and on, not a slip fit. This let's you use the same bearing you set it up with. I also measure the case offset of the carrier bearings so I know what to compensate when measuring off the cap pads for pinion depth. But I have depth mic's, gauge blocks, test indicators and a surface plate. Lol
Last edited by FastmOp; 02/08/16 06:23 PM.
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Re: SETTING PINION DEPTH............
[Re: FastmOp]
#2008106
02/08/16 07:17 PM
02/08/16 07:17 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317 State of confusion
Thumperdart
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I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
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Ok then, all are timken bearings so I would HOPE they would be the same and will find out as soon as I catch up on carb/car work..........thankxxx.......
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: SETTING PINION DEPTH............
[Re: FastmOp]
#2008128
02/08/16 07:44 PM
02/08/16 07:44 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317 State of confusion
Thumperdart
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I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
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State of confusion
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I hone the inside of every pinion bearing when I build a rear end. You only remove .0005, then it still knocks off and on, not a slip fit. This let's you use the same bearing you set it up with. I also measure the case offset of the carrier bearings so I know what to compensate when measuring off the cap pads for pinion depth. But I have depth mic's, gauge blocks, test indicators and a surface plate. Lol Last question, are we checking pattern and what not w/dry clean or oiled bearings............
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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