Valve relief pockets as gas ports??? - Moparts Forums

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Re: Valve relief pockets as gas ports??? [Re: 1976 Aspen] #189598 01/13/09 11:55 AM 01/13/09 11:55 AM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,635 Oakland, MI D dizuster master
dizuster master D Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,635 Oakland, MI	Quote: My machinist said he's done this many times with big block chevy's and we all know they're alot more prone to detonation than our stuff. So the guy that screwed them up, and really should buy you a new set says they're fine huh?... I guess that's the part of the story that I don't get the most? Why isn't he just buying you a new set? I know you're not racing in MN yet!!

Re: Valve relief pockets as gas ports??? #189599 01/13/09 02:19 PM 01/13/09 02:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,050 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,050 U.S.S.A.	Quote: in any case i do find it interesting that even with all the people telling you all the bad things that can happen, your still willing to chance trashing a motor. That's because he was FISHING for someone to agree with what he wanted to do .

Re: Valve relief pockets as gas ports??? [Re: JohnRR] #189600 01/13/09 03:19 PM 01/13/09 03:19 PM
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 9,910 Eighty Four, PA B G Racing master
B G Racing master Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 9,910 Eighty Four, PA	Here is best advise I can give you.Don't run them.If that is the exhaust pocket(constant high heat) and the material is fragmented it will continue to burn away causing failure that may damage the cylinder wall.Machinist arn't always the best engine builders.I tell our machinist what I want and will never let him build an engine.Was it his fault or was he told how much to cut?Did anyone varify the thickness or location? [IMG]http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/ajcasini/max_zpsdppwd9km.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Valve relief pockets as gas ports??? [Re: JohnRR] #189601 01/13/09 03:22 PM 01/13/09 03:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 149 Cleveland Ohio Discoquik member
Discoquik member Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 149 Cleveland Ohio	They are going to lead to trouble. There are many reasons not to recut, redress, or alter grooves. The pocket can be altered but with caution as proven here. The manufacturer would have known if the part could be cut for the desired pocket if the diameter of the valve was given. I don't know the details but in our cases we typically look at the computer model and can actually "measure" the changes and know if it is ok. But this is dependent on accurate information and communication of what is going to be done. I would look into a new set of pistons and order them with the ring stack moved down on the part. Vic Ellinger vellinger@wiseco.com Wiseco Performance Products

Re: Valve relief pockets as gas ports??? [Re: 1976 Aspen] #189602 01/13/09 05:11 PM 01/13/09 05:11 PM
Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 5 Indiana S ssdart3360 member
ssdart3360 member S Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 5 Indiana	I have a set of BRC pistons with the same deal. .031 top ring --I have run them off and on for years. They probably wearout the ring a little faster but no big deal. 360 low comp. ss car. Bruce

Re: Valve relief pockets as gas ports??? [Re: ssdart3360] #189603 10/16/09 12:03 PM 10/16/09 12:03 PM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 238 Roseau, MN 1976 Aspen OP enthusiast
1976 Aspen OP enthusiast Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 238 Roseau, MN	Well, for all you gurus who thought my pistons were junk, they made it through the season and I'm going to run another one on them. I got 212 1/4 mile passes on them and oh, did I mention, I won the track championship with them??? So to all the newbies on here, take all the advice on this board with a grain of salt

Re: Valve relief pockets as gas ports??? [Re: B G Racing] #189604 10/16/09 12:26 PM 10/16/09 12:26 PM
Joined: Feb 2009 Posts: 345 Arkansas JoWeTu_6 enthusiast
JoWeTu_6 enthusiast Joined: Feb 2009 Posts: 345 Arkansas	Quote: I know a cheap guy that runs a stable of Maxwedge cars that had some hillbilly shop weld up a couple similar to that with some high silicone aluminum rod and the lasted longer than his engine did.If it's affordable buy a new set,if not find a hillbilly shop like the other guy did.I would not run them like that,the hole would only get bigger.It's not like a gas port that is a small hole that is in the meaty part of the piston.

Re: Valve relief pockets as gas ports??? [Re: 1976 Aspen] #189605 10/16/09 12:30 PM 10/16/09 12:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,635 Oakland, MI D dizuster master
dizuster master D Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,635 Oakland, MI	You know, if you're a good enough racer to be the track champion, all the more reason to do everything you can to prevent an untimely failure. If Joe Schmo breaks a motor in the 1st round who cares. But I would think someone chasing a championship would care. Glad to hear that even though your machinist screwed up your pistons, and talked you into using them anyway, that you didn't get burned from it. Newbie lesson... "Everybody get's lucky sometimes."

Re: Valve relief pockets as gas ports??? [Re: 1976 Aspen] #189606 10/16/09 12:43 PM 10/16/09 12:43 PM
Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 705 Michigan H Hemiroid super stock
Hemiroid super stock H Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 705 Michigan	Quote: Well, for all you gurus who thought my pistons were junk, they made it through the season and I'm going to run another one on them. I got 212 1/4 mile passes on them and oh, did I mention, I won the track championship with them??? So to all the newbies on here, take all the advice on this board with a grain of salt Hmm, so you're saying that because your machinist ruined a set of pistons and you decided to run them anyway and got away with it that you got bad advice? You probably would have been the first guy to come back and complain about those that said it's ok it the piston shattered, lost the pin. Then the rod sawed a hole in the liner in that hole and cut the cam in half. Then the rest of the motor came apart and oiled down your slicks and you stuck it in the wall or in the side of someone else's car. You took a chance, disregarded the advice of a lot of good engine builders and got away with it. Doesn't make you smart, just lucky. You were given the right advice, whether you realize it or not. Congratulations on your championship.

Re: Valve relief pockets as gas ports??? [Re: Hemiroid] #189607 10/16/09 01:01 PM 10/16/09 01:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,695 nc E emarine01 master
emarine01 master E Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,695 nc	Seems like you took the risk and faired ok, I would not have run them myself, as for taking the advice of board members I think the info shared is for the best, and should be interpreted as you think fit, congrats on your win

Re: Valve relief pockets as gas ports??? [Re: emarine01] #189608 10/16/09 01:08 PM 10/16/09 01:08 PM
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 8,647 ELYRIA,OH B blownzoom440
blownzoom440 B Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 8,647 ELYRIA,OH	i am glad it workedout for you. 1Q tho,could thay have been tig welded a little?

Re: Valve relief pockets as gas ports??? [Re: 1976 Aspen] #189609 10/16/09 01:19 PM 10/16/09 01:19 PM
Joined: May 2005 Posts: 6,446 NJ-USA H HPMike master
HPMike master H Joined: May 2005 Posts: 6,446 NJ-USA	That's great that it worked out. I would find someone with a borescope and take a peek inside the spark plug hole at the area to see if anything looks like it got worse. MB

Re: Valve relief pockets as gas ports??? [Re: 1976 Aspen] #189610 10/16/09 05:29 PM 10/16/09 05:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,050 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,050 U.S.S.A.	Quote: Well, for all you gurus who thought my pistons were junk, they made it through the season and I'm going to run another one on them. I got 212 1/4 mile passes on them and oh, did I mention, I won the track championship with them??? So to all the newbies on here, take all the advice on this board with a grain of salt If you and your machinist are smarter than everyone else why did you even bother asking in the first place ? Have you pulled a head to see how much bigger the hole is? With your razzing I'm guessing you would have posted the picture to further your case.

Re: Valve relief pockets as gas ports??? [Re: JohnRR] #189611 10/16/09 11:32 PM 10/16/09 11:32 PM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 238 Roseau, MN 1976 Aspen OP enthusiast
1976 Aspen OP enthusiast Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 238 Roseau, MN	Dizuster- Sorry, but new pistons were not in the budget at the time I'm not gloating, razzing, or saying I'm smarter than anybody else. 75% of you probably know more about this than me. I just figured everybody would wanna know how it ended up. I'm pulling the heads to redo the valve guides and I'll be sure to post a picture at that time. Stay tuned!!!

Re: Valve relief pockets as gas ports??? [Re: 1976 Aspen] #189612 10/17/09 11:20 AM 10/17/09 11:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,050 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,050 U.S.S.A.	Quote: Dizuster- Sorry, but new pistons were not in the budget at the time I'm not gloating, razzing, or saying I'm smarter than anybody else. 75% of you probably know more about this than me. I just figured everybody would wanna know how it ended up. I'm pulling the heads to redo the valve guides and I'll be sure to post a picture at that time. Stay tuned!!! You're not ??? Did someone else post this using your account ? Quote: Well, for all you gurus who thought my pistons were junk, they made it through the season and I'm going to run another one on them. I got 212 1/4 mile passes on them and oh, did I mention, I won the track championship with them??? So to all the newbies on here, take all the advice on this board with a grain of salt otherwise waiting for the pictures

Re: Valve relief pockets as gas ports??? [Re: B G Racing] #189613 10/17/09 04:36 PM 10/17/09 04:36 PM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,506 Az Crizila master
Crizila master Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,506 Az	Quote: Here is best advise I can give you.Don't run them.If that is the exhaust pocket(constant high heat) and the material is fragmented it will continue to burn away causing failure that may damage the cylinder wall.Machinist arn't always the best engine builders.I tell our machinist what I want and will never let him build an engine.Was it his fault or was he told how much to cut?Did anyone varify the thickness or location? I doubt you will have to wait for anything to burn away. Fastest 300

Re: Valve relief pockets as gas ports??? [Re: Crizila] #189614 10/05/10 04:23 PM 10/05/10 04:23 PM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 238 Roseau, MN 1976 Aspen OP enthusiast
1976 Aspen OP enthusiast Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 238 Roseau, MN	Well, another season has ended with these same pistons and I got a third place finish with them. I have new Diamond's on the shelf for the freshen this winter care of RyanJ @ SDSS. The pistons made it another 191 1/4 mile passes and still holding strong. I'm starting to get a little blowby so I think it's time. Once again, I'm not gloating, razzing, or anything. I just promised I would update if something went wrong or when it was time to switch...

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