|
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do?
[Re: RoadRunnerJD]
#1592763
03/17/14 01:04 AM
03/17/14 01:04 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,767
Jefferson State
srt
ESYC
|
ESYC
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,767
Jefferson State
|
Quote:
....
It was easy to modify these cars 45 years ago. Install mag wheels, pitch steel wheels. Install chrome valve covers and air cleaner, throw out stock parts, headers...get rid of the manifolds, let's put in a cam and now we found a 26" radiator on a 71 Chrysler at the junk yard. Now, 45 years later, let's.... put it back original....
or, not. There is a small segment that is preserving history by carefully maintaining these cars as they were.
Historical preservation recognizes things change and any work should be done to preserve that evolution.
|
|
|
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do?
[Re: 71vert340]
#1592765
03/17/14 12:48 PM
03/17/14 12:48 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 252
Seattle, WA.
edp
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 252
Seattle, WA.
|
It a good point regarding the cost aspect & those who try to capitalize on it, here's an example.... $599.99 on Ebay right now - I actually need one of these - am I gong to pay it - hell no!  I really think the answer is, in a way we're all artists and our canvas's our the vehicles - cars, motorcycles, trucks, models as the OP does professionally, etc... but most folks dont look at vehicles let alone mechanic's, body guys & painters, engine builders, etc... in the traditionally sense of being artistic. I know that when I go fiddle in my shop its not only skill I'm tapping into but a creative process that usually ends in something better than before I started. I think this is what most of us do but all at different levels of interest. Stupid prices exist because someone is willing to pay it - some dude probably really wants that emblem & maybe he just won the lotto, who knows.....
|
|
|
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do?
[Re: Stewpar]
#1592767
03/17/14 06:52 PM
03/17/14 06:52 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,767
Jefferson State
srt
ESYC
|
ESYC
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,767
Jefferson State
|
This post also incites an interesting concept. It's good that the cars are being 'kept alive' Personally I like to see a car's heritage preserved by documenting records, photographs, and notes of work completed. It can also include records of show or race results, past owner info etc. Heavily documented survivors will always head the pack, yet as they are few.
So, do what you chose, BUT keep records. I think there are various categories used with historic properties that lend themselves to vehicles. I adapted them a little and toss this out for interest:
Preservation:
applying measures necessary to sustain the existing form, integrity, and components of a vehicle. Preservation work generally focuses on the ongoing maintenance and repair of historic components rather than extensive replacement or new construction.
Think: Survivor type car with metal patches and nos and or oem parts when available.
Rehabilitation:
adapting a vehicle for continuing or new compatible use through repair, alteration, and additions, while preserving those portions or features that convey its historical or cultural values.
Think: altering a clean body survivor type 340 Barracuda into a 426 ‘Cuda, ss clones, awb clones
Restoration:
accurately depicting the form, materials, features, and character of a vehicle as it appeared at a particular period of time (new, custom, as raced conversions, etc.). Restoration retains as much of the historic period components as possible. Inconsistent components may need to be removed and missing or unavailable components faithfully reconstructed in accordance with the restoration period (60’s, 70’s, 80’s, ….).
Think: Building a typical resto using aftermarket body panels and or parts including adding ‘day two’ type resto and may include new ‘period correct’ new parts. (may also include pro-street, drag, show cars, etc.)
Reconstruction:
depicting by means of new construction the vehicle with features, componants, and character of a vehicle that no longer exists, as it appeared at a particular period of time (as determined by the Reconstructionist).
This would include new ‘white bodies’, wing car clones, belvedere->roadrunners/sb’s, coronet 440->r/t’s, etc.
factory race or early race conversions could fit into any of the above categories.
|
|
|
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do?
[Re: srt]
#1592768
03/17/14 07:41 PM
03/17/14 07:41 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 936
OLD318
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 936
|
Speaking only from my own experience (read  ) In our own humble way, we are trying to recreate the car that Chrysler gave us 44+ years ago. For different guys that means different things. For the absolute OE crowd that includes markings, paint daubs, properly finished bolts, parts etc.... For the resto-mod crowd it's keeping it stock appearing but adding on upgrades/goodies as they see fit... Resto mod is really personalization. The car is part of them... not chrysler history.. Outside of that...why do they do it? the most obvious answer is...because the can and want to.... it's a fun/challenging (and very expensive) hobby.... In so doing, it allows us (if only in our minds anyway), to relive yesterday and hopefully in the process we get a car we can actually drive.... You can't measure the value of the restoration (resto mod) experience/effort based soley on resale value of the car, anymore than you can place a value on golfing by the golfers scorecard.... There is simply more to it than that. Last I checked...nobody makes us do this... we do it because we love it.... Do you really need any other reason that that?
|
|
|
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do?
[Re: OLD318]
#1592769
03/18/14 09:20 AM
03/18/14 09:20 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 305
Wisconsin
Big D A12
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 305
Wisconsin
|
In regards to the original post.
I would call it passion, maybe even an obsession. The term I like to use is Automotive Archeology.
I liken it to Indiana Jones. We go in search of elusive historic treasures (date coded parts) and travel to far away lands to find them (car shows across the country) only to put them in a museum (your garage) and maybe hold them several times a year (drive them once and awhile).
For me, it is about doing it OEM correct. It is not for everyone, but is what I enjoy doing. Everyone enjoys our hobby in different ways, neither is right or wrong in my opinion, just enjoy it!!
D
Seeking 1969 Lynch Road fender tags/Build Sheets/Window Stickers/VIN - Over 2300 so far thanks to you!!
2018 Demon Challenger PY4 A8 Black Hood
2017 Jeep Trail Hawk
2016 Hellcat Challenger PCP A8
1969.5 A12 Super Bee WM21 V1H F6 D21
1969 Coronet RT B5 D32 M46 N96
|
|
|
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do?
[Re: Big D A12]
#1592770
03/19/14 08:59 PM
03/19/14 08:59 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,775
Marion, SC USA
69RR383
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,775
Marion, SC USA
|
Quote:
In regards to the original post.
I would call it passion, maybe even an obsession. The term I like to use is Automotive Archeology.
I liken it to Indiana Jones. We go in search of elusive historic treasures (date coded parts) and travel to far away lands to find them (car shows across the country) only to put them in a museum (your garage) and maybe hold them several times a year (drive them once and awhile).
For me, it is about doing it OEM correct. It is not for everyone, but is what I enjoy doing. Everyone enjoys our hobby in different ways, neither is right or wrong in my opinion, just enjoy it!!
D
 Not my cup of tea, but glad some of you try to preserve history. Personally, I prefer a few mild convenience updates but still preserve the essence if not the originality--then drive the crap out of it. I built mine to cruise and bang gears while enjoying a/c and modern electronics(ignition). I can appreciate both sides/opinions--live and let live! 
|
|
|
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do?
[Re: gtx6970]
#1592771
03/19/14 09:19 PM
03/19/14 09:19 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 16,147
Mesa, Arizona
dart4forte
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 16,147
Mesa, Arizona
|
Quote:
Quote:
Here's some anal details of the 2014 Riddler Award Winner.
Makes a $1700 OE exhaust hanger seem like something you could buy at Walmart.
So who's crazy now? Or crazier?
I know a couple shops building cars to compete at that level. Comparing them to the OE stock crowd is apples to oranges.
One shop told me they have about 2 full work weeks ( 8 hour days )at $65 an hour
in JUST the exhuast clamps
The guys building to win that particualar award go full tilt from the 1st pre-limernary sketches to the end with that ONE goal in mind....WIN
Having that 100% OE factory correct resto is not my cup of tea. However, I respect those who are into that aspect of our hobby. Having been in HS when these cars were new I can tell you the quality back then was no where near what some of the restos look like today. Orange peel, overspray, misfitting doors etc. were pretty much commonplace back then and they were new cars off the showroom floor.
|
|
|
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do?
[Re: dart4forte]
#1592772
03/20/14 12:07 AM
03/20/14 12:07 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,655
Cut and Shoot, TX
kentj340
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,655
Cut and Shoot, TX
|
Hey, money talks. Original or nearly original cars are worth more than personalized cars, simply because there is more demand for the originals, more rejection for the personalized ones.
Maybe it's just me, but when I see aftermarket valve covers and air cleaner, I just wonder how badly it has been thrashed, and what else have they mutilated? When I see an original looking engine compartment, there's no proof, but I generally tend to think the car has been well treated and that it is in excellent shape, that the owner has respected the car.
Nearly every day I see yet another Prius with clear plastic tail lights that just look different - well, dumb - but not better. Not to mention the many 18-wheelers that have those bullet caps on their front wheel lugs. Now that's wicked. That's personalizing through conformity for you.
Nobody did muscle cars better than Mopar. The factory way is the coolest way. The real Mopar muscle cars from the factory, the sporty ones with shaker hoods, the A12s, the wing cars, the Cudas and Challengers with big engines, etc. are worth keeping original, if they are mostly intact. Minor personalizations like electronic ignition and a modern radio that can be reversed don't count.
If a car is too far gone, or if it was never from the factory a muscle car, well then, I say put a big engine in it, clone it, and personalize it as you wish. I might do one of those someday - the muscle car that I should have ordered but didn't. But it will be a copy, a clone of how Mopar designed it.
As the original owner of an unmolested 340-S, I am restoring my car to the way it was when I took delivery from the dealer. That was one of the happiest days of my life, and even though it is just a low end muscle car, not a HemiCuda, I think it needs to be original. BUT... over the years I exchanged the original starter, distributor, carb, fuel pump, and alternator for cores to buy rebuilts. Now that those originals are long gone, I won't be paying big bucks for factory correct ones.
Well, maybe if I just happen to run across a bottom carb casting with the right date code, and it doesn't cost too much...
If you don't see two dolphins, you need a vacation.
|
|
|
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do?
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1592774
03/20/14 02:40 AM
03/20/14 02:40 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,655
Cut and Shoot, TX
kentj340
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,655
Cut and Shoot, TX
|
Now here's a car that was un-personalized to increase its value, the 2,010 mile HemiCuda: http://www.rkmotorscharlotte.com/sales/inventory/active/1971-Plymouth-Cuda/133269#!/Scroll half way down, just below the very long list of option codes, to read what the original owner's personalizations were, and why, sort of. The original factory fluids still in the engine is a bit too much originality, though.
If you don't see two dolphins, you need a vacation.
|
|
|
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do?
[Re: RUNCHARGER]
#1592776
03/20/14 07:28 PM
03/20/14 07:28 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,632
jersey shore
flypaper
I hate Texas
|
I hate Texas
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,632
jersey shore
|
i have to ask the op why do you have a passion for building models? is it all about making a buck to you? a car is the same thing just on a larger scale..... 
|
|
|
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do?
[Re: kentj340]
#1592777
03/21/14 10:53 PM
03/21/14 10:53 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 984
Tennessee
Hemi ragtop
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 984
Tennessee
|
Quote:
Now here's a car that was un-personalized to increase its value, the 2,010 mile HemiCuda:
http://www.rkmotorscharlotte.com/sales/inventory/active/1971-Plymouth-Cuda/133269#!/
Scroll half way down, just below the very long list of option codes, to read what the original owner's personalizations were, and why, sort of.
The original factory fluids still in the engine is a bit too much originality, though.
Maybie I shouldn't, but I HAVE to respond to this. Let me first say that I respect ALL of the opinions stated here. Second, I hesitate to tell this as I don't want to disrespect the owner of the car mentioned above. But here it is. Last year, I attended the Street Rod Nationals, South East in Knoxville, TN. I was encouraged by friends to enter as 1966 cars were now "welcome". There was no parking your trailer and driving your car 100' for it to sit all weekend and then drive back to the trailer, oh no, these cars are strictly driven, EVERYWHERE.
So the wife, dog and I make the trip. I took up a company on the offer of a free weight of our car. (turns out it was 4175lb.). While waiting in line a gentleman and his friend asked about the car. He informed me that he owned a HEMI Cuda. I asked why he would be interested in my tribute to one of 3 66'Coronet HEMI convertables? His answer was that he was the owner of the "Reynolds Cuda" and that he wanted a HEMI car that he could drive! I was in shock and didn't say anything. Did I make an error? Most certainly.
The point is, and relative to this post, even with arguably the most desirable Mopar in existence, a clone car is still desirable as it can be DRIVEN! So, even if you have the most documented, original Mopar on the planet, there can still be the desire to DRIVE IT! Not wanting to devalue a once in a lifetime car, there IS room for personal interpretation of what Ma Mopar should have, could have produced with today's electronic ignition, Firm Feel steering and handling and etc in the form of a "tribute",and just enjoying driving your own rendition of a rare Mopar for a great weekend with the wife and dog!
|
|
|
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do?
[Re: Hemi ragtop]
#1592778
03/21/14 11:02 PM
03/21/14 11:02 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 984
Tennessee
Hemi ragtop
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 984
Tennessee
|
Yes the wheels didn't come out until 1967, now note that the car has the original style, 66'only wiring harness, yet, it has 67' and up dual master cylinder for disk brakes. Then again, it has the original HEMI only, trans cooler, correct # for 66' only radiator, etc. the object for me is to duplicate the original while "borrowing" from the modern to create a HEMI car that I can enjoy, anytime I want to and SAFELY drive with the wife, ANYWHERE I want to!
|
|
|
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do?
[Re: 6PakBee]
#1592779
03/22/14 05:03 PM
03/22/14 05:03 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,650
Harm City Md.
Dan Halen
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,650
Harm City Md.
|
Quote:
What I DON'T care for is someone coming up to me and going "You know, that is the wrong bolt for the battery tray." Then I tend to tell them they should buy a Corvette. They'll fit right into that crowd with that attitude. 
BINGO!
Years ago I was @ Mopars/Englishtown looking at a lightly modified Sublime V-code 'Cuda, when I got to the VIN on the dash, the owner came up behind me exclaiming it was HIS car and he could do what he wanted with it. I hadn't said a word or looked at him!
He was so brow-beaten by the "numbers guys" that he became overly defensive. To calm him down, I had to convince him that I liked his car and I myself had a '69 A-12 Roadrunner that ran low 11's. 
|
|
|
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do?
[Re: gtx6970]
#1592780
03/23/14 04:16 AM
03/23/14 04:16 AM
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,066
portland or
new bee
Richard Cranium
|
Richard Cranium
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,066
portland or
|
Regarding a restoration taking a car back to original appearance, there is a right way to do it and a wrong way.
I personally enjoy trying to do this the right way.
*1969 383 4sp. Super Bee
*1966 Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint GT
*1965 Porsche 356C
*2004 VW Passat Wagon
*2004 Mini Cooper S
*1967 Jaguar E-Type FHC
A mall cop is in our midst.
|
|
|
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do?
[Re: Hemi ragtop]
#1592781
03/25/14 01:22 PM
03/25/14 01:22 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
DPelletier
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
|
Quote:
Quote:
Now here's a car that was un-personalized to increase its value, the 2,010 mile HemiCuda:
http://www.rkmotorscharlotte.com/sales/inventory/active/1971-Plymouth-Cuda/133269#!/
Scroll half way down, just below the very long list of option codes, to read what the original owner's personalizations were, and why, sort of.
The original factory fluids still in the engine is a bit too much originality, though.
Maybie I shouldn't, but I HAVE to respond to this. Let me first say that I respect ALL of the opinions stated here. Second, I hesitate to tell this as I don't want to disrespect the owner of the car mentioned above. But here it is. Last year, I attended the Street Rod Nationals, South East in Knoxville, TN. I was encouraged by friends to enter as 1966 cars were now "welcome". There was no parking your trailer and driving your car 100' for it to sit all weekend and then drive back to the trailer, oh no, these cars are strictly driven, EVERYWHERE.
So the wife, dog and I make the trip. I took up a company on the offer of a free weight of our car. (turns out it was 4175lb.). While waiting in line a gentleman and his friend asked about the car. He informed me that he owned a HEMI Cuda. I asked why he would be interested in my tribute to one of 3 66'Coronet HEMI convertables? His answer was that he was the owner of the "Reynolds Cuda" and that he wanted a HEMI car that he could drive! I was in shock and didn't say anything. Did I make an error? Most certainly.
The point is, and relative to this post, even with arguably the most desirable Mopar in existence, a clone car is still desirable as it can be DRIVEN! So, even if you have the most documented, original Mopar on the planet, there can still be the desire to DRIVE IT! Not wanting to devalue a once in a lifetime car, there IS room for personal interpretation of what Ma Mopar should have, could have produced with today's electronic ignition, Firm Feel steering and handling and etc in the form of a "tribute",and just enjoying driving your own rendition of a rare Mopar for a great weekend with the wife and dog!
You have a beautiful car. I had the opportunity to have a good look at the Reynolds Cuda when Steven J. owned it and it is, IMO, the most desireable Mopar on the planet. I don't blame any owner for preserving it in the best manner possible....in fact Steven told me that he hadn't sat in it.
I have no problem with Tributes, clones or whatever moniker you want to hang on them but I would point out that the extreme measures taken to preserve cars like the hemicuda referenced above should be reserved for the survivors and perhaps the very, very high end restos. I don't see a problem driving my restored Superbee even with it's #'s 440-6 in place. Although anything can happen, I restored it once and (in theory anyway) I can do it again so I have no problem driving it and even racing it.
Dave
1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack
1974 'Cuda
2008 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Ram 3500 Diesel
2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel
2003 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Durango Limited
[url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
|
|
|
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do?
[Re: DPelletier]
#1592782
03/25/14 08:43 PM
03/25/14 08:43 PM
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 784
Florida
cbusters
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 784
Florida
|
It is easy to buy Holley, Edelbrock, MP, Boyd Wheels, Hooker, etc, and put them on a car to make it as unique as another guy that buys the same parts and makes his car unique. Finding correct parts, bolts, inspection marks, date codes, and even original wheel weights for a car is much more difficult. The best way to be different, is to not be different. I choose to not build a car that anyone else can build out of a Summit Catalog. Which one is better? Your car is shinier and mine took more effort.
|
|
|
|
|
