Moparts
Why do you resto guys do what you do?
Posted By: modelmakerinc
Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/14/14 03:46 PM
What do you guys get out of building these "restorations" with the chalk marks and paint daubs and the "arguments" of this part needs a screw with three lines and that part should only have paint on two thirds of the left corner. etc. etc. etc.
I know that the big dollar rare cars are done that way for resale and trophies (the car itself) for private collections and some are investments.
Don't get me wrong, I am a fan of them and I personnaly would not do that type of restoration (unless I was being paid to)
But what do you guys get? is there a sense of being better than other cars done with someones own style or thought, I just don't get it why you guys are willing to pay STUPID prices for a part because it has the right date and chalk mark and still use imported Chinese crap for parts that are not available.
Don't say that don't happen. how many of these cars have repop parts right next to a overpriced 45 yo part that has been in a box.
Posted By: azmopar
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/14/14 03:48 PM
in my case its preserving or bring back HISTORY
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/14/14 03:50 PM
For me it's about history and I consider myself to be a historian. IMO these cars represent a very special time in automotive history and I like to see (at least some of them) preserved/restored as close to how they really were when they were new for future generations to enjoy, and hopefully to appreciate and learn from.
Posted By: can.al
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/14/14 04:22 PM
...our cruise and show events have become a sea of chrome and aluminum and the cars are gorgeous,but some just prefer these cars the way they were when new, or perhaps "day two" especially if they lived through that era
a nicely restored original will almost always be more valuable and desirable unless your modifications are exactly what somebody else wants.
Posted By: 71birdJ68
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/14/14 04:22 PM
I just love the way Mopar built cars back then, and it's very hard for me to see a improvement from what they did, by the way of modifications. Take a mundane part like valve covers, the wedge valve covers are so exquisitely sculptured compared to Ford or GM stuff that chrome Moroso stuff is a down grade to the engine. I bought my car in 74 when I was 19, and I'm trying to put it back as close as I can to look stock with hidden improvements. You could say I trying to relive my youth. Maybe I'm trying to go to a special time when these cars were new cause I was there, like when I was in the 9th or 10th grade on the second floor go the high school looking out the window watching a 69 Green Road Runner and some sort of GM car line up right in front of the main entrance, and race. Also I'm like Scott, I like history, so I enjoy seeing a stock A model the way it was when new a lot more than a street rod. That way I can get a picture of how people lived back then.
Posted By: MOPARMIKE69
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/14/14 04:28 PM
Exactly!
Also addressing the OP's questions:
1. Because we can and you can't.
2. The same reason you built the car you have. Personal satisfaction
3. We try to use the most original parts we can, if they can't be found we have to use what is available. Ever try to find original, date coded, with the correct part number trunk weather strip?
4. The never ending search for truth and recreating what was and what will never be again.
5. It's fun!
The same reason an original untouched 1500 mile car sells for a butt load of money is no body else has one! It is only original once. Since there aren't 1000's of these lying around, the next best thing is to have a restored car as close to being in the original condition as humanly possible.
I could go on and on. I guess a return question would be why spend all the time and money on a car like yours, that isn't original. You will never get your money back and if you try to sell it someone has to love your personal taste. If it is original thousands of people want it.
I am always amazed that I never see posts from restorers, paint dab , numbers guys bashing the Hot rodders. I love all mopars in all condition. I am happy you are doing what you want to your car. Yet we always see hot rodders, racers, etc. always bashing the numbers, resto, car show people. If you are happy doing your thing, I am happy for you. Why is it so hard to be happy that we are doing our thing? Nuff said
Posted By: RUNCHARGER
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/14/14 04:41 PM
These cars are historic, they represent the way the world was in easier times. Mopar was doing anything they could to sell a car and there was little government intervention in the finished product. I hung around Chrysler dealerships since I was about 6 years old and remember the cars the way they looked coming off the truck and going for PDI. So that's the way I like them to look.
Fads come and go but restored cars are always in style, I wouldn't want to own an 80's "Pro Street" these days, they look totally lame in this day and age.
Sheldon
Posted By: modelmakerinc
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/14/14 04:45 PM
Do you think that the way we restore cars are a true representation of what they were?
With all due respect I say no you are not, You are re-writing history, all of our cars are better than new! Where are the crappy runs and missing paint, bad panel alignment, etc.
We would like them to be that way but they are not true representations of what they were, they are only original once I say that survivor cars are the only ones that can be "historic"
justify it all you want, all of those crazy restoration items and processes are for personal satisfaction or financial gain or ??? but not for historical anything
Posted By: modelmakerinc
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/14/14 04:48 PM
MOPAR MIKE,
Quote:
Because we can and you can't.
NO, Won't, not can't
And I am not Bashing anyone at all, Just curious as to the mindset of needing that $1,700 exhaust hanger to hold a piece of stainless mandrel bent pipe that was never used originally
Posted By: 44D6PAKCUDA
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/14/14 04:55 PM
The thrill of the chase.Finding that rare NOS part new in a box is better than most things I can think of right now
It also takes me back to a day when I wasn't old enough to enjoy them, but was growing up in that era when my brother and dad could.I always wish I was older and could have walked into a dealership back in 1969-70 and ordered a new muscle car.So for me also it's trying to go back in time and recreate a "new" as delivered car I guess.Heck,I even buy cool parts for cars I don't even own.I know when I finally finished my Cuda a few years ago,the "thrill of the chase" was gone and now I don't know what to do...well maybe I do.
Posted By: MOPARMIKE69
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/14/14 04:55 PM
Quote:
Do you think that the way we restore cars are a true representation of what they were?
With all due respect I say no you are not, You are re-writing history, all of our cars are better than new! Where are the crappy runs and missing paint, bad panel alignment, etc.
We would like them to be that way but they are not true representations of what they were, they are only original once I say that survivor cars are the only ones that can be "historic"
justify it all you want, all of those crazy restoration items and processes are for personal satisfaction or financial gain or ??? but not for historical anything
Obviously you never saw Dave Waldon's 4-door Valiant nor do you have any right to pronounce any judgement on any restorer or restoration that you have not seen in person.
Posted By: MOPARMIKE69
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/14/14 05:02 PM
Quote:
MOPAR MIKE,
Quote:
Because we can and you can't.
NO, Won't, not can't
And I am not Bashing anyone at all, Just curious as to the mindset of needing that $1,700 exhaust hanger to hold a piece of stainless mandrel bent pipe that was never used originally
NO, You CAN'T. There you go again making up stuff you can't prove. No restorer has a mind set for buying a $1,700 exhaust hanger. That's just STUPID. Like I said, I am happy you are doing your thing, why can't you be happy we are doing our thing? 
Posted By: 71redcuda
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/14/14 05:19 PM
Quote:
What do you guys get out of building these "restorations" with the chalk marks and paint daubs and the "arguments" of this part needs a screw with three lines and that part should only have paint on two thirds of the left corner. etc. etc. etc.
I know that the big dollar rare cars are done that way for resale and trophies (the car itself) for private collections and some are investments.
Don't get me wrong, I am a fan of them and I personnaly would not do that type of restoration (unless I was being paid to)
But what do you guys get? is there a sense of being better than other cars done with someones own style or thought, I just don't get it why you guys are willing to pay STUPID prices for a part because it has the right date and chalk mark and still use imported Chinese crap for parts that are not available.
Don't say that don't happen. how many of these cars have repop parts right next to a overpriced 45 yo part that has been in a box.
It takes time/knowledge and hard work to get a car back to factory condition. Satifiction and much more knowledge when its accomplished.
Everyone cant do it,but its not for everyone either.
Posted By: DPelletier
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/14/14 05:38 PM
Quote:
Do you think that the way we restore cars are a true representation of what they were?
With all due respect I say no you are not, You are re-writing history, all of our cars are better than new! Where are the crappy runs and missing paint, bad panel alignment, etc.
We would like them to be that way but they are not true representations of what they were, they are only original once I say that survivor cars are the only ones that can be "historic"
justify it all you want, all of those crazy restoration items and processes are for personal satisfaction or financial gain or ??? but not for historical anything
Bullcrap; Though you obviously won't understand, everyone has already told you why we do it and for most people it has NOTHING to do with money. My interest is in factory musclecars and the history of the cars and period in automotive history. I've tried to restore my car to original condition but have made a few changes and compromises on the way (can't justify that $1,700.00 hanger). Each restoration is different and some truly are almost exactly "as delivered". The talent and cost to get to that level isn't something everyone can do....the rest of us simply do the best we can.
It sounds like your perspective is that since no restoration is as accurate as a mint survivor, we shouldn't try and might as well start bolting on tunnel rams and fender flares.....well, that's something that *I* admit I can't understand and would never do...but I don't start a thread asking what the heck you were thinking doing something like that to your car.
Every so often on of these threads come up and my thoughts are that they are most often posted by somebody with a chip on their shoulder....as others have stated, I'm not sure why it bothers people so much how others choose to enjoy their hobby.
Dave
Posted By: dan9
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/14/14 06:25 PM
I think the person answered it best with "the thrill of the chase". You must of had a vision of your own thrill when you built your car. Someone who spends thousands of dollars for a correct spare tire, jack and inflator has their own vision. We know that seriously we will never put a bumper jack to these cars nor will the spare ever be used. Then again a tunnel ram with dual quads may be your representation of a race car that is street driven. I don't know how you can fix most of these old cars without some repro parts. I have seen the 70 Valiant, if you have to ask why then I guess you just don't get it. I have been trying to explain this to 3 wives and THEY don't get it either.
Posted By: screamindriver
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/14/14 06:34 PM
Some have lived through the golden age of cars,music and the musclecar era and it's lifestyle...Unfortunately those days with the automobile being the centerpiece of culture are now gone..
It's all about preserving and/or representing something that's important to you and being able to reach out for others not associated with the hobby to enjoy...These days the super rare,collectable vehicles are not going to hit the streets for the kids and average person to see and appreciate them....Your so called "unworthy" cars are the ones seen on the streets,at the local car shows, and events across the nation representing the era...
Nothing like heading to the garage and firing up a classic...Cruising around getting the thumbs up ...Or at one time not long ago being the only mopar at the local car show with husbands,wives and kids wanting to know about the car you've brought...
We can't help there's greedy people wanting a fortune for that small part you need...The fun for some is the hunt and finding the nicest piece at the best price you can afford...
Posted By: Stewpar
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/14/14 06:38 PM
Quote:
Quote:
MOPAR MIKE,
Quote:
Because we can and you can't.
NO, Won't, not can't
And I am not Bashing anyone at all, Just curious as to the mindset of needing that $1,700 exhaust hanger to hold a piece of stainless mandrel bent pipe that was never used originally
NO, You CAN'T. There you go again making up stuff you can't prove. No restorer has a mind set for buying a $1,700 exhaust hanger. That's just STUPID. Like I said, I am happy you are doing your thing, why can't you be happy we are doing our thing?
What do you know about his financial situation to say he can't? 
I have no dog in this fight, but Jim summed it up very well for me. It's all about the thrill of the chase, find the car, parts, restore and enjoy. I do it for the love of the cars and how things were done "back in the day" There are different strokes for different folks, but I like the original OEM approach. Thank God reproduction sheet metal and parts have come a long way as I will pay a small premium on an original part vs. reproduction. However, a small premium!
I appreciate all levels of restoration and modification, but I am in the OEM group!
Posted By: autoxcuda
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/14/14 06:50 PM
What do 90% of amateur drag racers "get"?:
-Some winnings that don't nearly add up to "consumables" money put a race car? A trophy?
What does a guy building a modified car "get" compared to a OE resto car?
Posted By: autoxcuda
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/14/14 07:12 PM
Quote:
MOPAR MIKE,
Quote:
Because we can and you can't.
NO, Won't, not can't
And I am not Bashing anyone at all, Just curious as to the mindset of needing that $1,700 exhaust hanger to hold a piece of stainless mandrel bent pipe that was never used originally
That sounds like a consistency issue. Like using a totally obvious OE item to attach next to a totally modified item.
Same exact thing happens to modified cars. I'd call it consistency of theme. You have a pro street car with crazy paint, interior, and a stock painted motor. Or just a look that does not flow well.
Same thing happens with race cars. Or people attempting to race cars. Thousands spent on a tricked out carb, but still have lousy ignition system. They spend money or effort on one little thing and miss the big picture. Over concentrate on one thing but let other bottlenecks remain. I think that may be what you are getting at?
Everyone does that in some aspect of our lives. Some more that others. No one is perfect. But some people make some very poor choices.
Posted By: mopars_1
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/15/14 12:56 AM
OCD in an artistic form with a side of history appreciation (and money to kill I guess?)
Posted By: Kidsixpack
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/15/14 01:05 AM
You pose an interesting question. I grew up in the 80's and avery mucle car was hot rodded up. In 1986 i had my first bee. I worked at a gas station and a guy would bring in a 70 bee that he was trying to find original parts for. It was early in the resto. biz so there weren't any real repop parts available. I found it very interesting and have been a purest ever since.
KID
Posted By: modelmakerinc
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/15/14 01:46 AM
Right I didn't pose the question to get anyone bent out of shape, I know why I choose to build/fix/restore/ modify car the way I do. And I am very appreciative of the 1000 point restorations, not just on muscle cars but all cars, and airplanes and motorcycles for that matter.
I am not bashing or bothered or jealous or anything eles .. I am very glad you guys do whwt you do. I love seeing them finished, just wanted to know the motivation behind the extremes that some go to. henry
Posted By: RUNCHARGER
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/15/14 03:04 AM
I don't consider myself one of those guys but I believe a true restorer is a guy that restores the parts that are on the car if at all possible rather than paying $1700 for an NOS part that is probably different than what came on the car anyway.
So I get where you are coming from on that point for sure. Some guys are in it for their ego's nothing else, myself I just love these cars whether anyone else does or not is of no consequence.
Although modified cars are not my first choice what will impress me with a modified car (or not) is the workmanship and execution.
Sheldon
Posted By: mopar346
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/15/14 03:15 AM
I think I am just tryting to get it to the level of used cars I couldn't buy back in the day, I probably prefer/enjoy the day 2 or Super Stock cars most but some cars deserve to be as correct as possible. I absolutely LOVE beater muscle cars and I drive the crap out of my stuff.
To a degree I think it is that we end up with something special, my AAR wont be perfect by any means but it will be better than most. To me it doesn't really take much more effort to do it right/correct than it does to just slap new parts together.
Why do you build models to the level that you do, could probably build a real car for the same effort. I'm just asking cause I don't necessarily see the satisfaction in that hobby. You definitely do something I wouldn't and possibly couldn't do and I'm sure you have some amazing pieces.
Posted By: modelmakerinc
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/15/14 03:21 AM
Model Building is my profession, I stopped building models as a hobby when they started making me money.
Now think of the attention to detail I put into any of my models and transfer that ability to real cars. Just imagine how well I would build my real cars, if I was a resto type guy.
Posted By: mopar346
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/15/14 03:27 AM
Nor would I doubt your ability, most people have a theme in their life, if they base things on quality then most things they do and own are quality. If some one is results oriented then most of the time they get results. I really don't care so much about what others think as long as I am having fun and getting a reaction, which I guess in a way means I DO care what people think.
Posted By: Black 69 Beeper
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/15/14 03:47 AM
because i have a sickness.
Posted By: 1971 Gran Coupe
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/15/14 04:19 AM
It is an obsession.
Posted By: cbusters
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/15/14 04:56 AM
The Chrysler Engineers and the factory workers created some of the best cars ever created. Bringing them back to the point that the builders had them when they left the assembly line is the ultimate thanks and respect that can be given to these people. Be able to say, "This car is perfect just the way you put it together, and we will return it to that point out of respect for the car and its creators". It is humbling to know you can only come close! That is the real challenge and not many are up to it. It is presumptuous to think you can modify or change and that the car could be any better. If you can't understand it, we can't explain it to you.
Posted By: autoxcuda
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/15/14 04:58 AM
Quote:
...
Now think of the attention to detail I put into any of my models and transfer that ability to real cars. Just imagine how well I would build my real cars, if I was a resto type guy.....
Why couldn't that attention to detail be applied to modified custom cars??
I think the cars that win the Riddler award have just as much and probably more attention to detail and labor that a gold winning OE resto car.
Posted By: dOoC
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/15/14 05:05 AM
Quote:
NO, Won't, not can't
WON'T x 199 ... 
Gotta give ALL YOU 
credit for doing what you do - seriously - but I am sooooo far away from doing something like that ......
FURTHER away even than paying that certain from Joisey 20k$ for a rattle-can 
job .... 
Posted By: autoxcuda
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/15/14 05:13 AM
Posted By: RoadRunnerJD
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/15/14 05:43 AM
Quote:
Right I didn't pose the question to get anyone bent out of shape, I know why I choose to build/fix/restore/ modify car the way I do. And I am very appreciative of the 1000 point restorations, not just on muscle cars but all cars, and airplanes and motorcycles for that matter.
I am not bashing or bothered or jealous or anything eles .. I am very glad you guys do whwt you do. I love seeing them finished, just wanted to know the motivation behind the extremes that some go to. henry
It was easy to modify these cars 45 years ago. Install mag wheels, pitch steel wheels. Install chrome valve covers and air cleaner, throw out stock parts, headers...get rid of the manifolds, let's put in a cam and now we found a 26" radiator on a 71 Chrysler at the junk yard. Now, 45 years later, let's put it back original. It's a challenge and not for the average guy. Personally, over the years, I've gone from stock to full race to modified show car and back to fully restored original. I never felt so good about my car as when it was all back to original configuration. For me, it's a sense of accomplishment that I never had racing or showing it as a custom car even when I had a Hemi in it.
Posted By: 1972CudaV21
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/15/14 11:20 AM
The most important point (in my opinion) that you made, is slapping on cheap reproduction parts next to expensive NOS parts. When I see high-dollar cars being put back together with all Chinese (AMD) metal, the whole "American Muscle" thing is lost. Why isn't the sheetmetal made here? Because of greed. The profit margins are extremely high. Yes, it can be made here and with much better quality. Will it cost more? Absolutely.
Posted By: mopar346
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/15/14 11:41 AM
And probably out of reach of the consumer's price range when it hits the market.
Profit is not a dirty word, it is necessary for a company to stay in business. If it wasn't for profit no one would bother to reproduce our stuff.
Posted By: mopars_1
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/15/14 03:18 PM
Im not understanding the 'all or nothing' attitude? sometimes, a reproduction part is all that is available. with my roadrunner, I tried to locate as many NOS parts within reason and when there was only accurate reproductions available, why not use that? take exhaust tips for example, reproduction 71 machine gun tips are very nice and NOS ones are almost impossible to find. sooo in that case, should I have just went without?
seems like stupid logic to me, but hey, what do I know...
Posted By: mopars_1
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/15/14 03:22 PM
Quote:
The most important point (in my opinion) that you made, is slapping on cheap reproduction parts next to expensive NOS parts. When I see high-dollar cars being put back together with all Chinese (AMD) metal, the whole "American Muscle" thing is lost. Why isn't the sheetmetal made here? Because of greed. The profit margins are extremely high. Yes, it can be made here and with much better quality. Will it cost more? Absolutely.
without affordable AMD, I guess the next best thing when NOS metal isn't available is to crush the car. great idea
Posted By: FJR doc
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/15/14 03:24 PM
For me, it is all a labor of love. I've had to put my car restoration on hold for 31 years. It took a back seat while I attended college, post-grad and residency programs. Then marriage, kids, divorce and marriage again.
I wouldn't have to put as much time and attention to detail as I have, but I love doing it. It's my own archiological project. I think we all get a tremendous amount of satisfaction doing as much of the work ourselves to make the car look "day one"
Posted By: 6PakBee
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/16/14 07:58 PM
Interesting post. My
? Each to his or her own. I really don't care what somebody does to their car. Full restoration, rat rod, restomod, cosmetic, whatever. What I DON'T care for is someone coming up to me and going "You know, that is the wrong bolt for the battery tray." Then I tend to tell them they should buy a Corvette. They'll fit right into that crowd with that attitude.
Posted By: gtx6970
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/16/14 11:54 PM
Quote:
Here's some anal details of the 2014 Riddler Award Winner.
Makes a $1700 OE exhaust hanger seem like something you could buy at Walmart.
So who's crazy now? Or crazier?
I know a couple shops building cars to compete at that level. Comparing them to the OE stock crowd is apples to oranges.
One shop told me they have about 2 full work weeks ( 8 hour days )at $65 an hour
in JUST the exhuast clamps
The guys building to win that particualar award go full tilt from the 1st pre-limernary sketches to the end with that ONE goal in mind....WIN
Posted By: srt
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/17/14 05:04 AM
Quote:
....
It was easy to modify these cars 45 years ago. Install mag wheels, pitch steel wheels. Install chrome valve covers and air cleaner, throw out stock parts, headers...get rid of the manifolds, let's put in a cam and now we found a 26" radiator on a 71 Chrysler at the junk yard. Now, 45 years later, let's.... put it back original....
or, not. There is a small segment that is preserving history by carefully maintaining these cars as they were.
Historical preservation recognizes things change and any work should be done to preserve that evolution.
Posted By: 71vert340
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/17/14 06:19 AM
This has been interesting to read and made me think of how to answer it. I bought my Challenger convertible in 1972. I've made a few changes to it to suit me and wouldn't change it back. The most notable change from the original window sticker and build sheets which I have are the addition of hood pins (to prevent theft of Shaker setup in 1970s) and the change to a tinted windshield. This is how I like the car and I bought a lot of NOS parts for it in the mid 1970s to 1980s right from the Dodge dealer so I didn't pay outrageous prices for them. It's not factory correct for these items and things like PCV valve, oil filter, etc and it won't be as long as I own the car because of the high prices on the NOS parts. An interesting side note: In the 1990s at a show in Spokane, I heard a person tell his friend that my car had to be a fake because it very few 340 shaker verts were built in 1971. I showed him copies of the original window sticker, build sheet and dealer paperwork. He looked me up and down and told his friend no one like me could afford a real car like this so it had to be a fake. A no win situation.
Posted By: edp
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/17/14 04:48 PM
It a good point regarding the cost aspect & those who try to capitalize on it, here's an example....
$599.99 on Ebay right now - I actually need one of these - am I gong to pay it - hell no!
I really think the answer is, in a way we're all artists and our canvas's our the vehicles - cars, motorcycles, trucks, models as the OP does professionally, etc... but most folks dont look at vehicles let alone mechanic's, body guys & painters, engine builders, etc... in the traditionally sense of being artistic. I know that when I go fiddle in my shop its not only skill I'm tapping into but a creative process that usually ends in something better than before I started.
I think this is what most of us do but all at different levels of interest. Stupid prices exist because someone is willing to pay it - some dude probably really wants that emblem & maybe he just won the lotto, who knows.....
Posted By: Stewpar
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/17/14 08:25 PM
Quote:
An interesting side note: In the 1990s at a show in Spokane, I heard a person tell his friend that my car had to be a fake because it very few 340 shaker verts were built in 1971. I showed him copies of the original window sticker, build sheet and dealer paperwork. He looked me up and down and told his friend no one like me could afford a real car like this so it had to be a fake. A no win situation.
As he walks away to his 1988 Dodge Caravan and goes home to his trailer park............. 
Posted By: srt
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/17/14 10:52 PM
This post also incites an interesting concept. It's good that the cars are being 'kept alive' Personally I like to see a car's heritage preserved by documenting records, photographs, and notes of work completed. It can also include records of show or race results, past owner info etc. Heavily documented survivors will always head the pack, yet as they are few.
So, do what you chose, BUT keep records. I think there are various categories used with historic properties that lend themselves to vehicles. I adapted them a little and toss this out for interest:
Preservation:
applying measures necessary to sustain the existing form, integrity, and components of a vehicle. Preservation work generally focuses on the ongoing maintenance and repair of historic components rather than extensive replacement or new construction.
Think: Survivor type car with metal patches and nos and or oem parts when available.
Rehabilitation:
adapting a vehicle for continuing or new compatible use through repair, alteration, and additions, while preserving those portions or features that convey its historical or cultural values.
Think: altering a clean body survivor type 340 Barracuda into a 426 ‘Cuda, ss clones, awb clones
Restoration:
accurately depicting the form, materials, features, and character of a vehicle as it appeared at a particular period of time (new, custom, as raced conversions, etc.). Restoration retains as much of the historic period components as possible. Inconsistent components may need to be removed and missing or unavailable components faithfully reconstructed in accordance with the restoration period (60’s, 70’s, 80’s, ….).
Think: Building a typical resto using aftermarket body panels and or parts including adding ‘day two’ type resto and may include new ‘period correct’ new parts. (may also include pro-street, drag, show cars, etc.)
Reconstruction:
depicting by means of new construction the vehicle with features, componants, and character of a vehicle that no longer exists, as it appeared at a particular period of time (as determined by the Reconstructionist).
This would include new ‘white bodies’, wing car clones, belvedere->roadrunners/sb’s, coronet 440->r/t’s, etc.
factory race or early race conversions could fit into any of the above categories.
Posted By: OLD318
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/17/14 11:41 PM
Speaking only from my own experience (read
)
In our own humble way, we are trying to recreate the car that Chrysler gave us 44+ years ago.
For different guys that means different things.
For the absolute OE crowd that includes markings, paint daubs, properly finished bolts, parts etc....
For the resto-mod crowd it's keeping it stock appearing but adding
on upgrades/goodies as they see fit... Resto mod is really personalization. The car is part of them... not chrysler history..
Outside of that...why do they do it?
the most obvious answer is...because the can and want to....
it's a fun/challenging (and very expensive) hobby....
In so doing, it allows us (if only in our minds anyway), to relive yesterday and hopefully in the process we get a car we can actually drive....
You can't measure the value of the restoration (resto mod)
experience/effort based soley on resale value of the car, anymore
than you can place a value on golfing by the golfers scorecard....
There is simply more to it than that.
Last I checked...nobody makes us do this...
we do it because we love it....
Do you really need any other reason that that?
Posted By: Big D A12
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/18/14 01:20 PM
In regards to the original post.
I would call it passion, maybe even an obsession. The term I like to use is Automotive Archeology.
I liken it to Indiana Jones. We go in search of elusive historic treasures (date coded parts) and travel to far away lands to find them (car shows across the country) only to put them in a museum (your garage) and maybe hold them several times a year (drive them once and awhile).
For me, it is about doing it OEM correct. It is not for everyone, but is what I enjoy doing. Everyone enjoys our hobby in different ways, neither is right or wrong in my opinion, just enjoy it!!
D
Posted By: 69RR383
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/20/14 12:59 AM
Quote:
In regards to the original post.
I would call it passion, maybe even an obsession. The term I like to use is Automotive Archeology.
I liken it to Indiana Jones. We go in search of elusive historic treasures (date coded parts) and travel to far away lands to find them (car shows across the country) only to put them in a museum (your garage) and maybe hold them several times a year (drive them once and awhile).
For me, it is about doing it OEM correct. It is not for everyone, but is what I enjoy doing. Everyone enjoys our hobby in different ways, neither is right or wrong in my opinion, just enjoy it!!
D
Not my cup of tea, but glad some of you try to preserve history. Personally, I prefer a few mild convenience updates but still preserve the essence if not the originality--then drive the crap out of it. I built mine to cruise and bang gears while enjoying a/c and modern electronics(ignition). I can appreciate both sides/opinions--live and let live!
Posted By: dart4forte
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/20/14 01:19 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Here's some anal details of the 2014 Riddler Award Winner.
Makes a $1700 OE exhaust hanger seem like something you could buy at Walmart.
So who's crazy now? Or crazier?
I know a couple shops building cars to compete at that level. Comparing them to the OE stock crowd is apples to oranges.
One shop told me they have about 2 full work weeks ( 8 hour days )at $65 an hour
in JUST the exhuast clamps
The guys building to win that particualar award go full tilt from the 1st pre-limernary sketches to the end with that ONE goal in mind....WIN
Having that 100% OE factory correct resto is not my cup of tea. However, I respect those who are into that aspect of our hobby. Having been in HS when these cars were new I can tell you the quality back then was no where near what some of the restos look like today. Orange peel, overspray, misfitting doors etc. were pretty much commonplace back then and they were new cars off the showroom floor.
Posted By: kentj340
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/20/14 04:07 AM
Hey, money talks. Original or nearly original cars are worth more than personalized cars, simply because there is more demand for the originals, more rejection for the personalized ones.
Maybe it's just me, but when I see aftermarket valve covers and air cleaner, I just wonder how badly it has been thrashed, and what else have they mutilated? When I see an original looking engine compartment, there's no proof, but I generally tend to think the car has been well treated and that it is in excellent shape, that the owner has respected the car.
Nearly every day I see yet another Prius with clear plastic tail lights that just look different - well, dumb - but not better. Not to mention the many 18-wheelers that have those bullet caps on their front wheel lugs. Now that's wicked. That's personalizing through conformity for you.
Nobody did muscle cars better than Mopar. The factory way is the coolest way. The real Mopar muscle cars from the factory, the sporty ones with shaker hoods, the A12s, the wing cars, the Cudas and Challengers with big engines, etc. are worth keeping original, if they are mostly intact. Minor personalizations like electronic ignition and a modern radio that can be reversed don't count.
If a car is too far gone, or if it was never from the factory a muscle car, well then, I say put a big engine in it, clone it, and personalize it as you wish. I might do one of those someday - the muscle car that I should have ordered but didn't. But it will be a copy, a clone of how Mopar designed it.
As the original owner of an unmolested 340-S, I am restoring my car to the way it was when I took delivery from the dealer. That was one of the happiest days of my life, and even though it is just a low end muscle car, not a HemiCuda, I think it needs to be original. BUT... over the years I exchanged the original starter, distributor, carb, fuel pump, and alternator for cores to buy rebuilts. Now that those originals are long gone, I won't be paying big bucks for factory correct ones.
Well, maybe if I just happen to run across a bottom carb casting with the right date code, and it doesn't cost too much...
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/20/14 05:19 AM
I also appreciate them all. Case in point, the guy who built that Riviera Riddler winner (J.F. Launier of JF Customs in Osoyoos Canada just a couple hours North of Spokane) also built a Mopar that JUST missed getting the Riddler award as well (see attached pic). He's a mega talented guy with vision. J.F. who works out of a VERY conservative/small shop. You'd never guess in a million years that he could produce a car of that caliber out of that place. I saw the Riviera when it was in it's beginning phases (raw metal, gutted shell, etc.). I appreciate the dedication and talent in pulling off a project like this even if it isn't your personal cup of tea, whether it's an O.E. Gold restoration, or a wild custom. There's room to appreciate all of them.
Posted By: kentj340
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/20/14 06:40 AM
Now here's a car that was un-personalized to increase its value, the 2,010 mile HemiCuda:
http://www.rkmotorscharlotte.com/sales/inventory/active/1971-Plymouth-Cuda/133269#!/Scroll half way down, just below the very long list of option codes, to read what the original owner's personalizations were, and why, sort of.
The original factory fluids still in the engine is a bit too much originality, though.
Posted By: RUNCHARGER
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/20/14 06:57 AM
I also like old Mopars that don't have terrific attention to detail, that are driven and may be fixed up some day. I guess we're all just sick.
Sheldon
Posted By: flypaper
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/20/14 11:28 PM
i have to ask the op
why do you have a passion for building models?
is it all about making a buck to you?
a car is the same thing just on a larger scale.....
Posted By: Hemi ragtop
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/22/14 02:53 AM
Quote:
Now here's a car that was un-personalized to increase its value, the 2,010 mile HemiCuda:
http://www.rkmotorscharlotte.com/sales/inventory/active/1971-Plymouth-Cuda/133269#!/
Scroll half way down, just below the very long list of option codes, to read what the original owner's personalizations were, and why, sort of.
The original factory fluids still in the engine is a bit too much originality, though.
Maybie I shouldn't, but I HAVE to respond to this. Let me first say that I respect ALL of the opinions stated here. Second, I hesitate to tell this as I don't want to disrespect the owner of the car mentioned above. But here it is. Last year, I attended the Street Rod Nationals, South East in Knoxville, TN. I was encouraged by friends to enter as 1966 cars were now "welcome". There was no parking your trailer and driving your car 100' for it to sit all weekend and then drive back to the trailer, oh no, these cars are strictly driven, EVERYWHERE.
So the wife, dog and I make the trip. I took up a company on the offer of a free weight of our car. (turns out it was 4175lb.). While waiting in line a gentleman and his friend asked about the car. He informed me that he owned a HEMI Cuda. I asked why he would be interested in my tribute to one of 3 66'Coronet HEMI convertables? His answer was that he was the owner of the "Reynolds Cuda" and that he wanted a HEMI car that he could drive! I was in shock and didn't say anything. Did I make an error? Most certainly.
The point is, and relative to this post, even with arguably the most desirable Mopar in existence, a clone car is still desirable as it can be DRIVEN! So, even if you have the most documented, original Mopar on the planet, there can still be the desire to DRIVE IT! Not wanting to devalue a once in a lifetime car, there IS room for personal interpretation of what Ma Mopar should have, could have produced with today's electronic ignition, Firm Feel steering and handling and etc in the form of a "tribute",and just enjoying driving your own rendition of a rare Mopar for a great weekend with the wife and dog!
Posted By: Hemi ragtop
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/22/14 03:02 AM
Yes the wheels didn't come out until 1967, now note that the car has the original style, 66'only wiring harness, yet, it has 67' and up dual master cylinder for disk brakes. Then again, it has the original HEMI only, trans cooler, correct # for 66' only radiator, etc. the object for me is to duplicate the original while "borrowing" from the modern to create a HEMI car that I can enjoy, anytime I want to and SAFELY drive with the wife, ANYWHERE I want to!
Posted By: Dan Halen
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/22/14 09:03 PM
Quote:
What I DON'T care for is someone coming up to me and going "You know, that is the wrong bolt for the battery tray." Then I tend to tell them they should buy a Corvette. They'll fit right into that crowd with that attitude.
BINGO!
Years ago I was @ Mopars/Englishtown looking at a lightly modified Sublime V-code 'Cuda, when I got to the VIN on the dash, the owner came up behind me exclaiming it was HIS car and he could do what he wanted with it. I hadn't said a word or looked at him!
He was so brow-beaten by the "numbers guys" that he became overly defensive. To calm him down, I had to convince him that I liked his car and I myself had a '69 A-12 Roadrunner that ran low 11's. 
Posted By: new bee
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/23/14 08:16 AM
Regarding a restoration taking a car back to original appearance, there is a right way to do it and a wrong way.
I personally enjoy trying to do this the right way.
Posted By: DPelletier
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/25/14 05:22 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Now here's a car that was un-personalized to increase its value, the 2,010 mile HemiCuda:
http://www.rkmotorscharlotte.com/sales/inventory/active/1971-Plymouth-Cuda/133269#!/
Scroll half way down, just below the very long list of option codes, to read what the original owner's personalizations were, and why, sort of.
The original factory fluids still in the engine is a bit too much originality, though.
Maybie I shouldn't, but I HAVE to respond to this. Let me first say that I respect ALL of the opinions stated here. Second, I hesitate to tell this as I don't want to disrespect the owner of the car mentioned above. But here it is. Last year, I attended the Street Rod Nationals, South East in Knoxville, TN. I was encouraged by friends to enter as 1966 cars were now "welcome". There was no parking your trailer and driving your car 100' for it to sit all weekend and then drive back to the trailer, oh no, these cars are strictly driven, EVERYWHERE.
So the wife, dog and I make the trip. I took up a company on the offer of a free weight of our car. (turns out it was 4175lb.). While waiting in line a gentleman and his friend asked about the car. He informed me that he owned a HEMI Cuda. I asked why he would be interested in my tribute to one of 3 66'Coronet HEMI convertables? His answer was that he was the owner of the "Reynolds Cuda" and that he wanted a HEMI car that he could drive! I was in shock and didn't say anything. Did I make an error? Most certainly.
The point is, and relative to this post, even with arguably the most desirable Mopar in existence, a clone car is still desirable as it can be DRIVEN! So, even if you have the most documented, original Mopar on the planet, there can still be the desire to DRIVE IT! Not wanting to devalue a once in a lifetime car, there IS room for personal interpretation of what Ma Mopar should have, could have produced with today's electronic ignition, Firm Feel steering and handling and etc in the form of a "tribute",and just enjoying driving your own rendition of a rare Mopar for a great weekend with the wife and dog!
You have a beautiful car. I had the opportunity to have a good look at the Reynolds Cuda when Steven J. owned it and it is, IMO, the most desireable Mopar on the planet. I don't blame any owner for preserving it in the best manner possible....in fact Steven told me that he hadn't sat in it.
I have no problem with Tributes, clones or whatever moniker you want to hang on them but I would point out that the extreme measures taken to preserve cars like the hemicuda referenced above should be reserved for the survivors and perhaps the very, very high end restos. I don't see a problem driving my restored Superbee even with it's #'s 440-6 in place. Although anything can happen, I restored it once and (in theory anyway) I can do it again so I have no problem driving it and even racing it.
Dave
Posted By: cbusters
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/26/14 12:43 AM
It is easy to buy Holley, Edelbrock, MP, Boyd Wheels, Hooker, etc, and put them on a car to make it as unique as another guy that buys the same parts and makes his car unique. Finding correct parts, bolts, inspection marks, date codes, and even original wheel weights for a car is much more difficult. The best way to be different, is to not be different. I choose to not build a car that anyone else can build out of a Summit Catalog. Which one is better? Your car is shinier and mine took more effort.
Posted By: modelmakerinc
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/26/14 01:20 AM
Quote:
It is easy to buy Holley, Edelbrock, MP, Boyd Wheels, Hooker, etc, and put them on a car to make it as unique as another guy that buys the same parts and makes his car unique. Finding correct parts, bolts, inspection marks, date codes, and even original wheel weights for a car is much more difficult. The best way to be different, is to not be different. I choose to not build a car that anyone else can build out of a Summit Catalog. Which one is better? Your car is shinier and mine took more effort.
Cbusters, I get what you are trying to say but you are not considering what I and many others must do. Many of us who don't have the "popular cars" must be more dedicated and spend as much effort as you.
Find for me in a catalog where I can buy one piece of trim or chrome or sheet metal or model specific part for my Fury. For gripes sake there is even a vendor called B-E and A. Where are the C bodies part suppliers and catalogs? there are none!
I had to do some of what you guys do for a lot of my car, and I couldn't just call a vendor for a part. I got some grief for starting this thread and I think some of you may not consider what it took for me to build my Fury.
Yes, It has plenty of modified non stock/restored parts but it also has just as many that were restored or built to the standard of your paint daub restos.
I don't want to jump through hoops to meet someone elses criteria, just jump through my own., to make my car mine and as well built as any other just not in the "BOX" of "thats not supposed to be like that"
to those who do.
Posted By: cbusters
Re: Why do you resto guys do what you do? - 03/26/14 12:25 PM
Quote:
Quote:
It is easy to buy Holley, Edelbrock, MP, Boyd Wheels, Hooker, etc, and put them on a car to make it as unique as another guy that buys the same parts and makes his car unique. Finding correct parts, bolts, inspection marks, date codes, and even original wheel weights for a car is much more difficult. The best way to be different, is to not be different. I choose to not build a car that anyone else can build out of a Summit Catalog. Which one is better? Your car is shinier and mine took more effort.
Cbusters, I get what you are trying to say but you are not considering what I and many others must do. Many of us who don't have the "popular cars" must be more dedicated and spend as much effort as you.
Find for me in a catalog where I can buy one piece of trim or chrome or sheet metal or model specific part for my Fury. For gripes sake there is even a vendor called B-E and A. Where are the C bodies part suppliers and catalogs? there are none!
I had to do some of what you guys do for a lot of my car, and I couldn't just call a vendor for a part. I got some grief for starting this thread and I think some of you may not consider what it took for me to build my Fury.
Yes, It has plenty of modified non stock/restored parts but it also has just as many that were restored or built to the standard of your paint daub restos.
I don't want to jump through hoops to meet someone elses criteria, just jump through my own., to make my car mine and as well built as any other just not in the "BOX" of "thats not supposed to be like that"
to those who do.
It is easy to identify and appreciate effort! I enjoy looking at all cars when we go to shows. That is the place to show off hard work and pride. To not give the impression I am an elitist, we do poorly at local shows because of the flash of modified cars. That is what attracts the public. We have even had judges tell us we would do better if we pulled our painted and hub-capped wheels and put chrome wheels on. We won't because that is not what we wanted to create. Our fun comes from the spectators that are wowed by our results and even the looker that told us that the 67 Road Runner was a better styled car than our 69. We go to car shows to meet "car people" and we understand that there are different tastes. We wanted our car to transport you back to a 1969 Plymouth Dealership. Nobody has ever picked it apart, in fact most have asked for advice or help. I bought my first RR in 1977 and have owned 12 more since. This our first restoration. We have a convertible that will be a mod car because the motor is long gone. "C" bodies are cool, and much more complicated than the basic B bodies. You don't have as many duplicates when you go to a show with your car. We have quite a few. We just use our car as an excuse to go and hang out. We get our reward from knowing that no one else would put 12k miles a year on a car as detailed as ours. We have actually placed just under trailer queens at the Garlits Show two years in a row. That is the ultimate compliment. Again, it is easy to recognize effort.
We may even have parts you are looking for.
