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Re: Another Whats the HP
[Re: tboomer]
#1284960
08/18/12 10:08 AM
08/18/12 10:08 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
OP
Master
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OP
Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Wow!! Sorry to read this,Mike! But if anyone can figure it out,I know it will be you!! Hang in there buddy! 
Thanks Ted.... I'll get there but for being a cheapo
engine build this thing sure is EATING up money...
I think I'll have to name this engine(I dont name
engines) but this one deserves one... it'll be called
"THE BIT(H".... all it wants to do is take my money
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Re: Another Whats the HP
[Re: emarine01]
#1284966
08/18/12 12:19 PM
08/18/12 12:19 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
OP
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
If you run a oil filter with a bypass that can be why the trash went past the filter, You said some of the bores were scuffed...That would drop torque fast and lead to ring sealing problems... Hang in there Mike its just W5 voodoo
The one cyl is scuffed enough that I'm gonna have it
sleeved the other couple will be honed.... its just
money.... spend it like ya got it 
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Re: Another Whats the HP
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1284968
08/18/12 02:07 PM
08/18/12 02:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
Sport440
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
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Quote:
Quote:
The one cyl is scuffed enough that I'm gonna have it
sleeved the other couple will be honed.... its just
money.... spend it like ya got it
It sounds like your piston to bore clearences might not be loose enough, and the pistons are growing trying to sieze itself into the bores.
Or it may be yet another cause, maybe a spun cam bearing starting to bind. Keep on checking it out.
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Re: Another Whats the HP
[Re: Sport440]
#1284969
08/18/12 04:05 PM
08/18/12 04:05 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
OP
Master
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OP
Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The one cyl is scuffed enough that I'm gonna have it
sleeved the other couple will be honed.... its just
money.... spend it like ya got it
It sounds like your piston to bore clearences might not be loose enough, and the pistons are growing trying to sieze itself into the bores.
Or it may be yet another cause, maybe a spun cam bearing starting to bind. Keep on checking it out.
Actually its .002 oversize on the bore ... its not
a cam bearing... already looked and they were fine
and the cam spins nice and free
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Re: Another Whats the HP
[Re: emarine01]
#1284970
08/18/12 04:12 PM
08/18/12 04:12 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
OP
Master
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OP
Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Somethings up with that 340 block.... 2nd go around with bore problems  might want to sonic it before the sleeve
I know I had it sonic checked before but with all the
340 blocks I have I dont recall on this one but thats
a good idea to have it done again... but I dont think
its a bore problem... just debris got in there
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Re: Another Whats the HP
[Re: emarine01]
#1284972
08/18/12 05:10 PM
08/18/12 05:10 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
OP
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Mike.... Not wantin to be a pain , just kickin some stuff around, Bock filled or wet? Whats the side clearance? Whos piston, Honed with torque plate? Type of piston coating, Shop temp when measuring vs assembly..... The bores and hone should have been like new both times from the amount of run time, Something's not happy in the bores.
No problem.... its a wet block, bores are .002 larger
than the piston manufacturers spec (Diamond) due to
honing... the first time the oil rings almost dropped
through(about 6# pull) so they were too small for the
bore but I tried it anyways... I had a bore of 4.075
instead of 4.070 and I ordered everything for a 4.070
bore(thats what I thought it was without measuring it)
so this time I had it honed to 4.077 and the rings
are 4.080 non file fit which still gave me material
to file fit them..... I had the pistons coated to
make up the difference but they are .001 smaller than
what I was hoping for... temps were very comparable...
within 10*
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Re: Another Whats the HP
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1284973
08/18/12 06:17 PM
08/18/12 06:17 PM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,091
Delray beach, Florida
Performance Only
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,091
Delray beach, Florida
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Quote:
Quote:
Mike.... Not wantin to be a pain , just kickin some stuff around, Bock filled or wet? Whats the side clearance? Whos piston, Honed with torque plate? Type of piston coating, Shop temp when measuring vs assembly..... The bores and hone should have been like new both times from the amount of run time, Something's not happy in the bores.
No problem.... its a wet block, bores are .002 larger
than the piston manufacturers spec (Diamond) due to
honing... the first time the oil rings almost dropped
through(about 6# pull) so they were too small for the
bore but I tried it anyways... I had a bore of 4.075
instead of 4.070 and I ordered everything for a 4.070
bore(thats what I thought it was without measuring it)
so this time I had it honed to 4.077 and the rings
are 4.080 non file fit which still gave me material
to file fit them..... I had the pistons coated to
make up the difference but they are .001 smaller than
what I was hoping for... temps were very comparable...
within 10*
are you saying the pistons are for a 4.070 bore but the bore is actually 4.077?
machine shop owner and engine builder
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Re: Another Whats the HP
[Re: Performance Only]
#1284974
08/18/12 06:33 PM
08/18/12 06:33 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
OP
Master
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OP
Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Mike.... Not wantin to be a pain , just kickin some stuff around, Bock filled or wet? Whats the side clearance? Whos piston, Honed with torque plate? Type of piston coating, Shop temp when measuring vs assembly..... The bores and hone should have been like new both times from the amount of run time, Something's not happy in the bores.
No problem.... its a wet block, bores are .002 larger
than the piston manufacturers spec (Diamond) due to
honing... the first time the oil rings almost dropped
through(about 6# pull) so they were too small for the
bore but I tried it anyways... I had a bore of 4.075
instead of 4.070 and I ordered everything for a 4.070
bore(thats what I thought it was without measuring it)
so this time I had it honed to 4.077 and the rings
are 4.080 non file fit which still gave me material
to file fit them..... I had the pistons coated to
make up the difference but they are .001 smaller than
what I was hoping for... temps were very comparable...
within 10*
are you saying the pistons are for a 4.070 bore but the bore is actually 4.077?
They were originally for a 4.070 bore but I had
them coated to make up the difference... this thing
was a screw up on my part from the moment I ordered
the pistons... I measured 2 of my 3 blocks for bore
and I assumed the third was a 4.070 also with just
a quick measurement which it wasnt 4.070 so when I
grabbed that block it was a shorter deck height and
I ordered the pistons to that shorter deck height....
I know I can have the coating removed and use another
block but I would have to see if the cam exposes the
oil supply hole in the lifter
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Re: Another Whats the HP
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1284975
08/18/12 06:44 PM
08/18/12 06:44 PM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,091
Delray beach, Florida
Performance Only
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,091
Delray beach, Florida
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Mike.... Not wantin to be a pain , just kickin some stuff around, Bock filled or wet? Whats the side clearance? Whos piston, Honed with torque plate? Type of piston coating, Shop temp when measuring vs assembly..... The bores and hone should have been like new both times from the amount of run time, Something's not happy in the bores.
No problem.... its a wet block, bores are .002 larger
than the piston manufacturers spec (Diamond) due to
honing... the first time the oil rings almost dropped
through(about 6# pull) so they were too small for the
bore but I tried it anyways... I had a bore of 4.075
instead of 4.070 and I ordered everything for a 4.070
bore(thats what I thought it was without measuring it)
so this time I had it honed to 4.077 and the rings
are 4.080 non file fit which still gave me material
to file fit them..... I had the pistons coated to
make up the difference but they are .001 smaller than
what I was hoping for... temps were very comparable...
within 10*
are you saying the pistons are for a 4.070 bore but the bore is actually 4.077?
They were originally for a 4.070 bore but I had
them coated to make up the difference... this thing
was a screw up on my part from the moment I ordered
the pistons... I measured 2 of my 3 blocks for bore
and I assumed the third was a 4.070 also with just
a quick measurement which it wasnt 4.070 so when I
grabbed that block it was a shorter deck height and
I ordered the pistons to that shorter deck height....
I know I can have the coating removed and use another
block but I would have to see if the cam exposes the
oil supply hole in the lifter
there's no coating for pistons other than hard anodize that can make up that size difference. those pistons are made with at least .0045 clearance in them so they would measure 4.0655, that leaves you .0115 piston to wall minus .001-.002 spray on moly coating. the moly coating is sacrificial and won't stay there for very long. i think that's way too much clearance. it may be time to just hone it to 4.08 and put the right size pistons in it, if the block will go that far. most factory blocks will be paper thin at that bore size.
Last edited by Performance Only; 08/18/12 06:45 PM.
machine shop owner and engine builder
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Re: Another Whats the HP
[Re: Performance Only]
#1284977
08/18/12 06:59 PM
08/18/12 06:59 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 8,094
Sunnyvale, CA
Jeepmon
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 8,094
Sunnyvale, CA
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Quote:
there's no coating for pistons other than hard anodize that can make up that size difference. those pistons are made with at least .0045 clearance in them so they would measure 4.0655, that leaves you .0115 piston to wall minus .001-.002 spray on moly coating. the moly coating is sacrificial and won't stay there for very long. i think that's way too much clearance. it may be time to just hone it to 4.08 and put the right size pistons in it, if the block will go that far. most factory blocks will be paper thin at that bore size.
I had this same problem when I tore down my old motor and ended up doing a complete new motor/block/everything.. So there is merit in what you're saying..
But if this was the case with Mikes build.. where did the aluminum come from?
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And that is the reason I have parked mine. It would be fun to have it licensed and drive on the street but it has too much missing to have the DOT look it over... 
