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Re: Firm Feel sector support kit.
[Re: jcc]
#1274775
08/18/12 12:15 PM
08/18/12 12:15 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,688
Marlboro, NY, USA
Rick_Ehrenberg
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,688
Marlboro, NY, USA
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Quote:
Quote:
but even the shaft itself has some flex. The new 3rd bearing cuts that to near zero.
Rick
Its difficult to imagine a sector extending 1.5"?
and 1"+ in diameter, mainly torsionaly loaded, flexing any significant amount, worth correcting. The mounting is another story however, imo. I have read the numerous positive comments others have made, and suspect it offers an improvement. But "sector" flex is not the problem being solved. I do suspect that by using the sector as leverage arm mounting point to negate the oem cantilever sector box design, that this add on fix may now INCREASE actual sector flex. However I can't believe this miniscule increased sector flex, if even measurable, would be a hindrance, and that this likely stops the entire unit from moving a great deal, and is therefore a positive trade off. I guess my biggest complaint is the label "sector support kit" is misleading, it is not as I see it, bracing the sector, but simply using the sector as an effective anchoring point.
Yours truly as always 
4.599
The bottom line: Just raise the hood of any muscle-era stock Mopar with the tires on the ground. Move the s/ wheel a few inches CW and CCW. You'll see the flex...it will be very apparent. it doesn't really matter what the source of the flex is (probably 95% K, 5% chuck). Now bolt on the FFI kit. Flex almost totally gone.
Yes, I admit copying this from the truck guys. I even tried to get the truck guys to make the kit before I offered the idea to FFI. I went over all that in the original article.
Rick
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Re: Firm Feel sector support kit.
[Re: Rick_Ehrenberg]
#1274776
08/18/12 01:53 PM
08/18/12 01:53 PM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 841
Santa Fe Springs, CA
Dan@Hotchkis
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 841
Santa Fe Springs, CA
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
but even the shaft itself has some flex. The new 3rd bearing cuts that to near zero.
Rick
Its difficult to imagine a sector extending 1.5"?
and 1"+ in diameter, mainly torsionaly loaded, flexing any significant amount, worth correcting. The mounting is another story however, imo. I have read the numerous positive comments others have made, and suspect it offers an improvement. But "sector" flex is not the problem being solved. I do suspect that by using the sector as leverage arm mounting point to negate the oem cantilever sector box design, that this add on fix may now INCREASE actual sector flex. However I can't believe this miniscule increased sector flex, if even measurable, would be a hindrance, and that this likely stops the entire unit from moving a great deal, and is therefore a positive trade off. I guess my biggest complaint is the label "sector support kit" is misleading, it is not as I see it, bracing the sector, but simply using the sector as an effective anchoring point.
Yours truly as always
4.599
The bottom line: Just raise the hood of any muscle-era stock Mopar with the tires on the ground. Move the s/ wheel a few inches CW and CCW. You'll see the flex...it will be very apparent. it doesn't really matter what the source of the flex is (probably 95% K, 5% chuck). Now bolt on the FFI kit. Flex almost totally gone.
Yes, I admit copying this from the truck guys. I even tried to get the truck guys to make the kit before I offered the idea to FFI. I went over all that in the original article.
Rick
I've seen the kit before and it really interested me. I'm going to throw a runout gauge on the car next time I have it on the drive-on lift.
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Re: Firm Feel sector support kit.
[Re: Dan@Hotchkis]
#1274777
08/18/12 02:39 PM
08/18/12 02:39 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
but even the shaft itself has some flex. The new 3rd bearing cuts that to near zero.
Rick
Its difficult to imagine a sector extending 1.5"?
and 1"+ in diameter, mainly torsionaly loaded, flexing any significant amount, worth correcting. The mounting is another story however, imo. I have read the numerous positive comments others have made, and suspect it offers an improvement. But "sector" flex is not the problem being solved. I do suspect that by using the sector as leverage arm mounting point to negate the oem cantilever sector box design, that this add on fix may now INCREASE actual sector flex. However I can't believe this miniscule increased sector flex, if even measurable, would be a hindrance, and that this likely stops the entire unit from moving a great deal, and is therefore a positive trade off. I guess my biggest complaint is the label "sector support kit" is misleading, it is not as I see it, bracing the sector, but simply using the sector as an effective anchoring point.
Yours truly as always
4.599
The bottom line: Just raise the hood of any muscle-era stock Mopar with the tires on the ground. Move the s/ wheel a few inches CW and CCW. You'll see the flex...it will be very apparent. it doesn't really matter what the source of the flex is (probably 95% K, 5% chuck). Now bolt on the FFI kit. Flex almost totally gone.
Yes, I admit copying this from the truck guys. I even tried to get the truck guys to make the kit before I offered the idea to FFI. I went over all that in the original article.
Rick
I've seen the kit before and it really interested me. I'm going to throw a runout gauge on the car next time I have it on the drive-on lift.
You will be my hero.
I try not to repeat myself, but there is little doubt the add on stiffens the assembly, flex of the shaft and now the newly discovered bearing slop is the meat of my beef.
I suspect the most difficult decision on the run out test will be what to use as a base measuring point, hope at least one of those is on the housing right next to the sector.
Regardless i'll. Hip in on six pack of diet dr pepper. 
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: Firm Feel sector support kit.
[Re: MoparMarq]
#1274778
08/24/12 05:55 PM
08/24/12 05:55 PM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,516
Santa Cruz, California
Lefty
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,516
Santa Cruz, California
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Quote:
Yes, I admit copying this from the truck guys. I even tried to get the truck guys to make the kit before I offered the idea to FFI. I went over all that in the original article.
Rick
Thanks for clearing that up. The brace was invented about a decade ago by a clever guy named Darin. The problem trying to be solved that gave birth to the idea was death wobble and steering wander on 4x4 Dodge Rams with the mighty Cummins under the hood. The invention was 1st posted on the Turbo Diesel Register back then. Darin was making them for a while, but eventually these guys took over production and marketing -
http://www.solidsteel.biz/
Does it work? Like Richard said, take a look at the sector shaft while turning the steering wheel back and forth with the engine running. It ain't pretty. Will you feel the difference? Yes, but only if you drive fast enough. Just like people who put disc brakes on the rear of their Mopar and say they can't stop any faster, you will only feel the difference when driving on the edge of traction during braking or corning. That only happens during panic stops or on a race track.
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Re: Firm Feel sector support kit.
[Re: Lefty]
#1274782
08/25/12 01:24 PM
08/25/12 01:24 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,688
Marlboro, NY, USA
Rick_Ehrenberg
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,688
Marlboro, NY, USA
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Quote:
I'm talking about being able to feel when the rear tires are just on the edge of locking up and being able to modulate the brakes so they don't lock up the wheels. It's easier to do/feel with rear disc brakes vs rear drums.
This gets complicated. Bottom line: The Bendix duo-servo setup 99% of us have on the rear was designed, originally, to be heavily self-energizing so medium-weight cars would stop OK w/o a booster. The flip side of this is that they are very difficult to modulate near the max-G "lock point". You really need to be a near-pro to drive (read: threshold brake) these near the limit. There really wasn't a big fade issue, and weight-wise, cheapo disc setups are similar. It was the ease of "near the limit" modulation that finally convinced me to 4-wheel disc on most of my Mopars.
Rick
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Re: Firm Feel sector support kit.
[Re: Rick_Ehrenberg]
#1274783
08/25/12 04:13 PM
08/25/12 04:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,468
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,468
So Cal
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm talking about being able to feel when the rear tires are just on the edge of locking up and being able to modulate the brakes so they don't lock up the wheels. It's easier to do/feel with rear disc brakes vs rear drums.
This gets complicated. Bottom line: The Bendix duo-servo setup 99% of us have on the rear was designed, originally, to be heavily self-energizing so medium-weight cars would stop OK w/o a booster. The flip side of this is that they are very difficult to modulate near the max-G "lock point". You really need to be a near-pro to drive (read: threshold brake) these near the limit. There really wasn't a big fade issue, and weight-wise, cheapo disc setups are similar. It was the ease of "near the limit" modulation that finally convinced me to 4-wheel disc on most of my Mopars.
Rick
How would you identify a "cheepo rear disc setup" that doesn't modulate well to one that does?
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Re: Firm Feel sector support kit.
[Re: Rick_Ehrenberg]
#1274785
08/25/12 05:35 PM
08/25/12 05:35 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
|
Quote:
Quote:
I'm talking about being able to feel when the rear tires are just on the edge of locking up and being able to modulate the brakes so they don't lock up the wheels. It's easier to do/feel with rear disc brakes vs rear drums.
This gets complicated. Bottom line: The Bendix duo-servo setup 99% of us have on the rear was designed, on, and weight-wise, cheapo disc setups are similar. It was the ease of "near the limit" modulation that finally convinced me to 4-wheel disc on most of my Mopars.
Rick
I say this jokingly, blah, blah, blah. Botomline, if your rears are locking up first, your fonts aren' t working hard enough. Any modulation should be of the fronts, and discs shine in THAT. use.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: Firm Feel sector support kit.
[Re: autoxcuda]
#1274786
08/26/12 10:57 PM
08/26/12 10:57 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,688
Marlboro, NY, USA
Rick_Ehrenberg
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,688
Marlboro, NY, USA
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Quote:
How would you identify a "cheepo rear disc setup" that doesn't modulate well to one that does?
I wouldn't! The cheapo ones I'm referring to use Eldo or Exploder calipers, Ford or Cherokee rotors, etc. They generally work fine, they're just no lighter than the drum setups. Either way, the ease of precise modulation is there -- they are dead linear: EG: 2X line pressure = 2X clamping torque.
Rick
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Re: Firm Feel sector support kit.
[Re: Rick_Ehrenberg]
#1274787
08/26/12 11:15 PM
08/26/12 11:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,468
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,468
So Cal
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Quote:
Quote:
How would you identify a "cheepo rear disc setup" that doesn't modulate well to one that does?
I wouldn't! The cheapo ones I'm referring to use Eldo or Exploder calipers, Ford or Cherokee rotors, etc. They generally work fine, they're just no lighter than the drum setups. Either way, the ease of precise modulation is there -- they are dead linear: EG: 2X line pressure = 2X clamping torque.
Rick
Thank you for clarifying.
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Re: Firm Feel sector support kit.
[Re: floridian]
#1274791
02/19/14 12:06 AM
02/19/14 12:06 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,491
Lethbridge, AB, Canada
dangina
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,491
Lethbridge, AB, Canada
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Quote:
Can this be used with the Borgeson steering box?? Not sure what pitman arm is used on the mopar/borgeson install??
any one you want, doesn't need a special one, just make sure you buy a pitman that matches your sector (large or small)
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Re: Firm Feel sector support kit.
[Re: dangina]
#1274792
02/21/14 11:25 AM
02/21/14 11:25 AM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,574
Lakeland FL
floridian
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,574
Lakeland FL
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Quote:
Quote:
Can this be used with the Borgeson steering box?? Not sure what pitman arm is used on the mopar/borgeson install??
any one you want, doesn't need a special one, just make sure you buy a pitman that matches your sector (large or small)
OK, I meant does the Borgeson box use a stock mopar pitman arm or something different..
Per your comment does the borgeson box come with the small and large shaft for the older and newer pitman arms??
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Re: Firm Feel sector support kit.
[Re: floridian]
#1274793
02/21/14 01:14 PM
02/21/14 01:14 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,491
Lethbridge, AB, Canada
dangina
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,491
Lethbridge, AB, Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Can this be used with the Borgeson steering box?? Not sure what pitman arm is used on the mopar/borgeson install??
any one you want, doesn't need a special one, just make sure you buy a pitman that matches your sector (large or small)
OK, I meant does the Borgeson box use a stock mopar pitman arm or something different..
Per your comment does the borgeson box come with the small and large shaft for the older and newer pitman arms??
Yes it uses the stock pitman arm. Comes in both sizes, small and large sector. Just pick the one you want when ordering.
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