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quad shock (anti hop) setups v other traction systems
#1262320
07/05/12 06:57 PM
07/05/12 06:57 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 862
Iowa State fan
kilroy
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super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 862
Iowa State fan
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Ive been running a home made caltrac system for years after I got tired of bending front spring segments. I never really optimized it but it did work. But it rides tough and Im looking to change the attitude of the car from straight line to high po road car. I looked up this thread https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Number=5888138 but it was a little ambiguous and now that we have a handing forum I thought I would revive it. So my question is how does a quad shock setup like this http://firmfeel.com/QuadShock_abcefmjT.htm work for cornering and will it help me stop bending front segments if I go away from my 'caltrac' system. I realize that several mustang styles used them but how about us. Of course I will fabbing my own stuff but I theories first. 
Last edited by kilroy; 07/05/12 07:30 PM.
1973 Charger, former SE, former auto
I'm not trying to be difficult, it comes naturally....
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Re: quad shock (anti hop) setups v other traction systems
[Re: AndyF]
#1262324
07/05/12 10:19 PM
07/05/12 10:19 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 862
Iowa State fan
kilroy
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super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 862
Iowa State fan
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Quote:
Firm Feel has worked on a quad shock setup. Give them a call, I'm sure they can tell you what works.
I see that, this is the pick and link I have posted....
BUT I hate being a jackazz and given em a call and pumping them for info when I have no plans on spending money with them . Makes me Feel like a hypocrite freeloader.
Im bending springs up right behind the shackle. No binding, it actually is to free and causing severe spring wrap up on heavy car. Though I have free up about 300lbs from the last time I bent springs.
The only way I know to combat this would be to put more leafs further up, like ss springs, but I dont want a really huge spring rate or body separation.
Last edited by kilroy; 07/05/12 10:21 PM.
1973 Charger, former SE, former auto
I'm not trying to be difficult, it comes naturally....
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Re: quad shock (anti hop) setups v other traction systems
[Re: kilroy]
#1262328
07/06/12 09:49 PM
07/06/12 09:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,468
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,468
So Cal
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Quote:
...I thought if good enough for our nascar teams of the past (which were hardly off road setups) what about on a street car.
Drum brakes, cast iron rocker arms, heavy pistons, heavy valves, antiquated shocks... were also all good enough for Nascar teams of the past. 
Getting a good shock will help big time against wheel hop. Also springs with a thick front segment.
Is this wheel hop only under acceleration from a stop? Basically a drag race start?
I've got Hotchkis road race springs and Bilstein shocks. I don't see any wheel hop: http://youtu.be/TLOrFexa6Fk and back view: http://youtu.be/hfMf9NzpY7E
Maybe barrow a mini cam, video it, and see what's happening down there???
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Re: quad shock (anti hop) setups v other traction systems
[Re: autoxcuda]
#1262329
07/07/12 02:36 AM
07/07/12 02:36 AM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 862
Iowa State fan
kilroy
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super stock
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Iowa State fan
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Nothing now with my home made caltrac, and not so much then as more of a spring bending below front shackle issue. I just thought maybe that would take some of the hit out on the intial and then some out on braking but.... ...It looks like what I really need to do is build a spring pack with a couple of spring extending clear to front shackle and tailor the height and rate to something softer. Was just looking for some real world experience with them.
1973 Charger, former SE, former auto
I'm not trying to be difficult, it comes naturally....
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Re: quad shock (anti hop) setups v other traction systems
[Re: kilroy]
#1262330
07/07/12 05:06 PM
07/07/12 05:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,394
Pikes Peak Country
TC@HP2
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master
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Posts: 5,394
Pikes Peak Country
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Quote:
I got tired of bending front spring segments.
Quote:
Im bending springs up right behind the shackle.
Based on these comments, I'd say you've got a big problem with your homemade traction device binding your springs and reaching yield points in the main leaf. Is it really in both ends? If so, you do have major issues. Since you had asked about a cal-trac set up in a handling application some time ago, I think you may have answered your question as to why they aren't real popular.
Myself, I'm not a big fan of the cal-trac/slide-a-link set ups for the simple fact that they are designed to make symetrical (non mopar) springs act more like a asymetrical (mopar) springs. The mopar design is already there so it doesn't need the same type of tuning that a ford or chevy needs. BTW, you know the cal-trac designer is a Ford racer, yes?
Traction shocks may not prevent the damage from occuring, they just slow down the reaction to the load that creates the damage. Ultimately they will eventually run out of travel and the spring will bend again or you'll create a new binding point and bend somethng else.
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Re: quad shock (anti hop) setups v other traction systems
[Re: PHJ426]
#1262332
07/07/12 09:05 PM
07/07/12 09:05 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 862
Iowa State fan
kilroy
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super stock
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super stock
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Let me clear up some issues as it seems I have posted illiterately. I WAS bending springs upward just behind the front hanger, NOT the rear shackle, BEFORE I installed my caltracs. I installed my caltrac to COUNTERACT this bending issue, which it has. Now Im NOT bending springs, but with the caltrac it slams around on the street so I was looking for an alternative. I AM running XHD mopar springs order sometime in the late 90's, NOT ss springs. Though I am running a left and a right (not two lefts which is brilliant by the way). I hope this clears up some confusion,  , and I do appreciate the ideas you all are putting forth. I will probably be implementing them soon in the form of rebuilt spring package and eventually shocks. Ill listen some more if anyone wishes to continue. 
Last edited by kilroy; 07/07/12 09:09 PM.
1973 Charger, former SE, former auto
I'm not trying to be difficult, it comes naturally....
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Re: quad shock (anti hop) setups v other traction systems
[Re: TC@HP2]
#1262335
07/08/12 01:42 PM
07/08/12 01:42 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,456
Fly Over States
PHJ426
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master
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Fly Over States
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I forget the 73 had that Iso spring deal here are the parts you need to remove that: http://www.firmfeel.com/Isodeletekit_b73up.htmOr just get all the parts used off of a 72 or 71 B body and your good to go. And these hangars with the shorter length for the stock 22" front segment spring with the 2 different height holes for the front spring eye. Will get that large B body closer to the ground. Lower CG = better handling....... http://www.firmfeel.com/leafhang_b.htmThen after you get rid of that your rear springs will be exactly like on my 72 and I have not bent my new bought this year Made in Mexico XHD springs yet or build your own......those should not bend
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Re: quad shock (anti hop) setups v other traction systems
[Re: PHJ426]
#1262336
07/08/12 05:57 PM
07/08/12 05:57 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger
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master
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Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
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I need to do something quick since my driveshaft is hitting the floor without a snubber. It actually tore a weight off my brand new driveshaft. Not impressed. I think these Hotchkis springs would be fine on a smaller tire that breaks loose easier. My 335s are like glue after first gear which is awesome but not awesome for these springs. So im gonna use a stock snubber with 2 poly bumpers that are 2" tall and about 1.25" from the floor and see how that works.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: quad shock (anti hop) setups v other traction systems
[Re: 72Swinger]
#1262337
07/08/12 06:26 PM
07/08/12 06:26 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 862
Iowa State fan
kilroy
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 862
Iowa State fan
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Ya, the only thing that I havent got rid of are the front iso bushings in the Kmember and those are going out this winter. I hate the front shock selection for the 73 and up car, the shocks are so short. I have even gotten rid of the iso torsion bar holder and welded in old style tbar holders in the trans member so I could get the shorter tbars and better tbar rates that come with them.
In the back I got rid of the iso stuff years ago and, regardless of what controversy there is, I flipped the spring hangers and lowered the car 1.5" give or take (and love it!)
Im now running a 4speed but I was bending springs with an auto, I then switched to a homemade caltrac and a 4speed and have stopped bending but am unhappy with the spring/rear action. I also used to have a stock rear sway on the car when I was bending springs and I will probably be putting it back on soon once I rebuild the spring packs and take the homemade caltrac off.
1973 Charger, former SE, former auto
I'm not trying to be difficult, it comes naturally....
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Re: quad shock (anti hop) setups v other traction systems
[Re: kilroy]
#1262339
07/10/12 10:54 AM
07/10/12 10:54 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,394
Pikes Peak Country
TC@HP2
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master
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Pikes Peak Country
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Quote:
I hate the front shock selection for the 73 and up car, the shocks are so short.
Shock trick for these - gusset the bottom of the control arm to box it in. Then hole saw the top of the control arm so it has a large enough hole to pass a shock body through it. Then buy 1st gen Camaro shocks. The lower bar mount of teh Camaro shock can be bolted to the added gusset, the upper bayonet mount fits right into the stock mopar hole. Loads of choices in shocks that way.
The leaf trick I described above is outlined in the Mopar Chassis manual. It is an old trick at making stock length leaf springs provide the same support as a super stock set without going to the shorter length and higher rate that come with SS packs.
If you really want to get gonzo, you can do what the 4x4 guys do and have the second leaf run full length and provide a second wrap around the eyes.
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