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Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? #1195377 03/12/12 01:44 AM 03/12/12 01:44 AM
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,415 Toronto M mshred OP master
mshred OP master M Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,415 Toronto	Hey guys, Putting my LA 360 back together and im reusing my old timing set. Its a Cloyes true street roller, and even when it was brand new the chain felt kinda sloppy...I re installed it the other day and im not sure im too happy with how it feels and was thinking of using a tensioner on the chain to take up the slack. My worry is the reliability of these pieces (All I know of is the MP one...are there other brands?). I have read of some using them with great success and others saying that they get eaten up. My car sees upward of 3000 miles on the street every year, and lots of very hard driving on and off the track. Rpms will be under 7k. Not sure if any of this has a bearing on whether the tensioner will work ok in my application. Is there any special install guidelines that anyone recommends when using them? special lube? effects on cam degreeing (already degreed the cam but can be done again if I should). Just looking for some opinions on whether these are a good piece or if I should stay away from them and any tricks or things to watch out for when running them Thanks Matthew

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: mshred] #1195378 03/12/12 07:00 AM 03/12/12 07:00 AM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 3,325 Truckville, the capital of NY 85_Ram_4speed master
85_Ram_4speed master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 3,325 Truckville, the capital of NY	I managed to get one when we were doing these all the time in the dealership. Seems like a good idea---but I can tell what happened to mine. I was mocking up my 360 and put the chain on by itself. Motor turned over effortlessly (just crank, cam, and chain). I then put the tensioner on and the struggled to turn the enging over with a 3/8 ratchet. I pulled it right off in the trash it went. I just couldn't see putting the added drag---a significant amount--- on the engine. Not worth it in my opinion at all just for that reason alone, let alone any wear issues tha my occur on the wear pads. As long as you buy a good double roller, thats about the best your going to do short of going to the Milidon gear drive. Which I eventully did and had rock steady timing. Outcast Dodge guy.

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: 85_Ram_4speed] #1195379 03/12/12 10:00 AM 03/12/12 10:00 AM
Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 3,978 Hilltown Pa 1967dartgt master
1967dartgt master Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 3,978 Hilltown Pa	My motor from Ryan J has one. I beleive he likes them on all his chains. Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads STR Chassis fabraction

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: 1967dartgt] #1195380 03/12/12 10:02 AM 03/12/12 10:02 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,616 Kissimmee Fl. D dusturbd340W5 master
dusturbd340W5 master D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,616 Kissimmee Fl.	they work great and my 416 was no harder to turn over with it or with out. 70 duster full chassis super pro 416 CNC Indybrock heads 727 w/brake best so far 1.212 60 6.219 in 1/8 at 110.88 9.768 at 137.81 1/4

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: 1967dartgt] #1195381 03/12/12 10:11 AM 03/12/12 10:11 AM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 13,247 Mt. Vernon, Ohio dartman366 I Live Here
dartman366 I Live Here Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 13,247 Mt. Vernon, Ohio	I have run one on my 408 since it was built, I think the benifit of keeping the chain tight out weight's the added drag of the tensioner. Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: dartman366] #1195382 03/12/12 11:35 AM 03/12/12 11:35 AM
Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,632 Lubbock,TX D DavidDean top fuel
DavidDean top fuel D Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,632 Lubbock,TX	My w-2 & w-5 motors both have them. I plan on using one on my big 360-1 indy motor also. 7114777-132825512_Nn1f9AM1_87.jpg (191 downloads)

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: mshred] #1195383 03/12/12 11:50 AM 03/12/12 11:50 AM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	They were using them in production engines... that should say something.... I have one on my 416

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1195384 03/12/12 12:30 PM 03/12/12 12:30 PM
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,415 Toronto M mshred OP master
mshred OP master M Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,415 Toronto	thanks for the responses so far guys! As far as making the engine hard to turn over, I don't think I would have that problem since my chain already has quite a bit of slop For those who are using them, are you lubing them up a certain way before start up? I guess im just concerned about the pads wearing as that is some of the bad stuff that I hear about. I don't want this motor to have a failure again because of something this small.

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: mshred] #1195385 03/12/12 12:38 PM 03/12/12 12:38 PM
Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 12,008 Finally a HUSKER again Moparnut426 I Live Here
Moparnut426 I Live Here Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 12,008 Finally a HUSKER again	They were an "add on" piece for a noisy chain in a 3.9 V6 when I was wrenching at the dealerships. We would put them on only because the TSB and warrenty said to. Good idea, but I took one appart that had 75000 ish miles on it, and its wear pads were down to paper thin almost gone, didnt like seeing that. And that was with a stock baby spring tension. For the guys running solid rollers with more spring pressure that would in my mind put more pressure against a loose chain wearing the pads faster. I didnt put one on my 408, I have a billet rollmaster chain, and didnt feel the need I guess. I guess its just personal preferance, and I dont feel the need to run one.

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: Moparnut426] #1195386 03/12/12 12:49 PM 03/12/12 12:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,266 Renton Washington T Triple Threat master
Triple Threat master T Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,266 Renton Washington	I asked Ryan this when I was ordering parts for my new bullet. He said to run one, so I am. We'll see how it holds up to all the street driving and passes I put on in a year. -Dustin 67 Dart, 9 second, 392" G3 Hemi 68 Barracuda 340 F/SA

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1195387 03/12/12 12:49 PM 03/12/12 12:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,376 D dogdays I Live Here
dogdays I Live Here D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,376	They are sold on the aftermarket by Cloyes and I think somebody else. I got mine from Rock Auto. R.

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: dogdays] #1195388 03/12/12 12:57 PM 03/12/12 12:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,485 SoCal Brian Hafliger master
Brian Hafliger master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,485 SoCal	When you see how much the nylon wears in such a short time, and it's all in the oil/oil pan you'll never run one again!! Gimmick if you ask me. Buy a good timing set and be done. Brian Hafliger

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: Brian Hafliger] #1195389 03/12/12 01:30 PM 03/12/12 01:30 PM
Joined: Feb 2008 Posts: 339 western PA S stevet340 enthusiast
stevet340 enthusiast S Joined: Feb 2008 Posts: 339 western PA	Quote: When you see how much the nylon wears in such a short time, and it's all in the oil/oil pan you'll never run one again!! Gimmick if you ask me. Buy a good timing set and be done. I would never run one, just buy a good QUALITY chain and gear set. It may be a bit pricey, but a lot of times you really do get what you pay for and being cheap is not the way to go in the long run! I have never been dissapointed buying quality parts over buying cheap parts...

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: Brian Hafliger] #1195390 03/12/12 01:38 PM 03/12/12 01:38 PM
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,544 Syracuse,NY CompWedgeEngines master
CompWedgeEngines master Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,544 Syracuse,NY	I agree,,,,never liked them, never will...dont think you need one. No way of telling from a computer screen what your dealing with as far as "loose", but it could be the align hone if there was one, a cheaper timing set with a chain that stretched easily, sprockets wearing faster than they should, or lack of oil supply to the timing set. RIP Monte Smith Your work is a reflection of yourself, autograph it with quality. WD for Diamond Pistons,Sidewinder cylinder heads, Wiseco, K1 rods and cranks,BAM lifters, Morel lifters, Molnar Technologies, Harland Sharp, Pro Gear, Cometic, King Engine Bearings and many others.

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or [Re: CompWedgeEngines] #1195391 03/12/12 02:02 PM 03/12/12 02:02 PM
Joined: Feb 2009 Posts: 892 Illinois StrkrDart69 super stock
StrkrDart69 super stock Joined: Feb 2009 Posts: 892 Illinois	Use a tensioner. The benefits of no slop om the chain far outway not using one. I have taken apart 140k mile smallblocks and the tensioner was not that bad. I would rather have my timing spot on.

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: Moparnut426] #1195392 03/12/12 02:19 PM 03/12/12 02:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,719 Space Station #5 471Magnum master
471Magnum master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,719 Space Station #5	I just pulled my motor apart due to a wiped cam after a few thousand miles. When I built it, I installed a Cloyes tensioner. There is visible wear on the pads. Wish I had pictures handy, but the chain �bars� have worn grooves in the pad. Looks like it wore in until the rollers started hitting the pad, and then stopped. With the effective bearing surface increased, the wear will probably stop. Before I re-assemble though, I�d like to hear some other tensioner wear stories. -Jim I can fix it... my old man is a television repairman. He's got the ultimate set of tools... I can fix it. Currently Mopar-less

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: 471Magnum] #1195393 03/12/12 02:23 PM 03/12/12 02:23 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: I just pulled my motor apart due to a wiped cam after a few thousand miles. When I built it, I installed a Cloyes tensioner. There is visible wear on the pads. Wish I had pictures handy, but the chain �bars� have worn grooves in the pad. Looks like it wore in until the rollers started hitting the pad, and then stopped. With the effective bearing surface increased, the wear will probably stop. Before I re-assemble though, I�d like to hear some other tensioner wear stories. Thats the normal wear pattern... as soon as it gets more surface area it slows right down on wear

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1195394 03/12/12 02:34 PM 03/12/12 02:34 PM
Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 2,128 sweden S sshemi top fuel
sshemi top fuel S Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 2,128 sweden	doesnt matter if you put in the most expensive of all timing sets, there will be slop just after a little while. I use tensioners on all my builds and never have one failed.

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: Brian Hafliger] #1195395 03/12/12 02:42 PM 03/12/12 02:42 PM
Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 12,008 Finally a HUSKER again Moparnut426 I Live Here
Moparnut426 I Live Here Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 12,008 Finally a HUSKER again	I agree here, but its a total crap shoot, and personal preferance. Will one make or break an engine, doubt it, will I run one, NO, do I care if someone else runs one, NO. All part of the Hot rod game. Some people LOVE header wrap, some HATE it, same thing here. Kasey

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: Moparnut426] #1195396 03/12/12 03:47 PM 03/12/12 03:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 550 Ma Voluster mopar
Voluster mopar Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 550 Ma	I run them in both of my motors I want the timming spot on Seeing I spray my car

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: Moparnut426] #1195397 03/12/12 03:57 PM 03/12/12 03:57 PM
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,415 Toronto M mshred OP master
mshred OP master M Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,415 Toronto	hearing these opinions has just put me right back on the fence lol The engine was never line honed, so that is not the issue. The timing set was always kinda sloppy from day one. I am looking into a new timing set, just seems like a shame since this one is still in great shape other then a stretched chain (thought about getting a new chain, but unsure of what to do for length). I too would like to hear more about the tensioners wear characteristics. As the pads wear, isn't that material going to get into the oil like Brian mentioned? Would this not be a possibility for engine failure as a result? or does the pickup screen prevent this?

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: mshred] #1195398 03/12/12 04:05 PM 03/12/12 04:05 PM
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,415 Toronto M mshred OP master
mshred OP master M Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,415 Toronto	Also, I see that Cloyes makes one as well. Is there a difference in quality between the Cloyes one and the factory one? Does anybody know the part number for the factory piece?

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: mshred] #1195399 03/12/12 04:13 PM 03/12/12 04:13 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: Also, I see that Cloyes makes one as well. Is there a difference in quality between the Cloyes one and the factory one? Does anybody know the part number for the factory piece? When I put my engine together a few months ago the factory one was not available... dont remember if it was on back order or dis continued... I got the Cloyes

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1195400 03/12/12 05:02 PM 03/12/12 05:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 412 Hampton Va gtsdon mopar
gtsdon mopar Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 412 Hampton Va	I have run a tensioner on my street and strip 340 for the past 5 years. My block was previously line bored and I could not find a chain that fit tight. Currently upgrading my combo to a 416 and will reuse the same tensioner.

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: gtsdon] #1195401 03/12/12 05:46 PM 03/12/12 05:46 PM
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,544 Syracuse,NY CompWedgeEngines master
CompWedgeEngines master Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,544 Syracuse,NY	Your dealer or auto parts store can get you one. P5007709...same as used on Jeeps...5.2 and 5.9 trucks, and I think the 3.9L. Keep in mind, timing will only bounce in a case like this at slower or on and off speeds. A timing chain will always have tension against ONE SIDE while under power. Or at least it better. You'll always have a tight side, and one more slack. If its a horrible fitting chain right fromt he beginning, then this could serve as a bandaid. Its funny, you dont see SBC having to run them. Hell, they still successfully use a single roller chain on the late model cams with great success. As you can see, we dont all agree.... ...its your vehicle, do what makes you comfortable. RIP Monte Smith Your work is a reflection of yourself, autograph it with quality. WD for Diamond Pistons,Sidewinder cylinder heads, Wiseco, K1 rods and cranks,BAM lifters, Morel lifters, Molnar Technologies, Harland Sharp, Pro Gear, Cometic, King Engine Bearings and many others.

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: CompWedgeEngines] #1195402 03/12/12 06:19 PM 03/12/12 06:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 3,395 Pa Hot 340 master
Hot 340 master Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 3,395 Pa	Quote: Its funny, you dont see SBC having to run them. Hell, they still successfully use a single roller chain on the late model cams with great success. SBC doesnt have the long cam to crank centerline a SBM does either--which is why these engine are hard on timing chains to start with. That said I dont run one...

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: Hot 340] #1195403 03/12/12 06:22 PM 03/12/12 06:22 PM
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,415 Toronto M mshred OP master
mshred OP master M Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,415 Toronto	well I just called the dealer with the part number and just like Mr. P said, they don't seem to make them anymore. Was told there are none whatsoever in Canada and that I MIGHT be able to find one from the states. Wonder if the auto parts store would be any different

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: mshred] #1195404 03/12/12 06:30 PM 03/12/12 06:30 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Check Summit... thats where I got mine

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: mshred] #1195405 03/12/12 06:35 PM 03/12/12 06:35 PM
Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 12,008 Finally a HUSKER again Moparnut426 I Live Here
Moparnut426 I Live Here Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 12,008 Finally a HUSKER again	When I ordered my Rollmaster chain, they asked me if I had linehoned the block, I said yes, they asked how much, and made it 3thou shorter, and it fits nice, not to tight, and not to loos, there is zero play in the chain, and I have a lock collar on my distributor shaft to keep my cam gear from bouncing. My timing is ROCK solid. Kasey

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: mshred] #1195406 03/12/12 06:42 PM 03/12/12 06:42 PM
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,544 Syracuse,NY CompWedgeEngines master
CompWedgeEngines master Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,544 Syracuse,NY	I can get them, drop me a PM. RIP Monte Smith Your work is a reflection of yourself, autograph it with quality. WD for Diamond Pistons,Sidewinder cylinder heads, Wiseco, K1 rods and cranks,BAM lifters, Morel lifters, Molnar Technologies, Harland Sharp, Pro Gear, Cometic, King Engine Bearings and many others.

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: Moparnut426] #1195407 03/12/12 07:22 PM 03/12/12 07:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,719 Space Station #5 471Magnum master
471Magnum master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,719 Space Station #5	Here's the wear on mine after a couple thousand miles... 7115362-P1090669.JPG (398 downloads) -Jim I can fix it... my old man is a television repairman. He's got the ultimate set of tools... I can fix it. Currently Mopar-less

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: 471Magnum] #1195408 03/12/12 07:45 PM 03/12/12 07:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,415 Toronto M mshred OP master
mshred OP master M Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,415 Toronto	Just called the local parts store and they have this guy for 20 bucks...Doesn't look to reassuring laugh: http://www.autopartsway.ca/PartDetails.cfm?W0133-1685095/MAH Todd, Im going to see if my local guy has it since I didn't want to bother him with something this small, but i will shoot you an email if he doesn't thanks!

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: mshred] #1195409 03/12/12 08:04 PM 03/12/12 08:04 PM
Joined: Feb 2009 Posts: 892 Illinois StrkrDart69 super stock
StrkrDart69 super stock Joined: Feb 2009 Posts: 892 Illinois	Hughes engines has them. That is where i got mine.

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: Brian Hafliger] #1195410 03/12/12 08:30 PM 03/12/12 08:30 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 7,348 Mt.Vernon ,Ohio VernMotor master
VernMotor master Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 7,348 Mt.Vernon ,Ohio	Quote: When you see how much the nylon wears in such a short time, and it's all in the oil/oil pan you'll never run one again!! Gimmick if you ask me. Buy a good timing set and be done. And I agree !! 100%. it is a bandage for junk timing chain set,,

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: VernMotor] #1195411 03/12/12 09:55 PM 03/12/12 09:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,826 las vegas 70AARcuda master
70AARcuda master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,826 las vegas	http://www.monicattichrysler.com/comersus/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=1296 Tony 70 AARCuda Vitamin C 71 Dart Swinger 360 10.318 @ 128.22(10-04-14 Bakersfield) 71 Demon 360 10.666 @122.41 (01-29-17 @ Las Vegas) 71 Duster 408 (10.29 @ 127.86 3/16/19 Las Vegas)

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: VernMotor] #1195412 03/12/12 09:58 PM 03/12/12 09:58 PM
Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 3,978 Hilltown Pa 1967dartgt master
1967dartgt master Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 3,978 Hilltown Pa	I don't know what you guys are doing but my motor has two seasons on it and the wear is minimal. This is with a solid roller too. I am going to put it back in the motor as is too. I also run a good chain but I don't think you can make your timing to steady. Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads STR Chassis fabraction

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: VernMotor] #1195413 03/12/12 10:06 PM 03/12/12 10:06 PM
Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 3,410 Belpre,Ohio C CHAPPER master
CHAPPER master C Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 3,410 Belpre,Ohio	Quote: Quote: When you see how much the nylon wears in such a short time, and it's all in the oil/oil pan you'll never run one again!! Gimmick if you ask me. Buy a good timing set and be done. And I agree !! 100%. it is a bandage for junk timing chain set,, This is about SMALL blocks,,,big blocks don't need tensioners/etc..they will still run good with 'sloppy' chains,,,right, Vern.?? If you like drag racing, support your local track.

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: VernMotor] #1195414 03/12/12 10:26 PM 03/12/12 10:26 PM
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 892 USA K krw71ragtop super stock
krw71ragtop super stock K Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 892 USA	Mancini Racing has them for $39.95 part #mopp5007709. I just installed one on my 416. It did not make a difference on how hard or easy the motor turns over. My motor is not back together yet so can't comment on the wear pattern. If you do use one I would degree your cam again with the tensioner on just to see the difference. I tore my motor down with only 800 miles on it because of a vibration. So it gave me a chance to check everything out. I'm using a good quality timing chain and it appeared to have stretched quite a bit, so I'm trying the tensioner. I'm using a gear drive timing set on my 410 so time will tell which one out lasts the other. I think if you use a good quality oil, regular oil changes, and a good screen on the pick-up tube everything should be fine.

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: krw71ragtop] #1195415 03/12/12 10:59 PM 03/12/12 10:59 PM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,506 Az Crizila master
Crizila master Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,506 Az	I have run a Mopar brand ( P5007709 )tensioner for about 3 years now on my 408. No problems and minimal wear. Had the oil pan off once in that time and didn't see anything. Maybe the oil filter caught some stuff. Fastest 300

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: mshred] #1195416 03/12/12 11:01 PM 03/12/12 11:01 PM
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,708 S. Il. U.S.A. 5spdcuda top fuel
5spdcuda top fuel Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,708 S. Il. U.S.A.	This is clearly one of those "builders choice" items. I've built them both ways and can't really tell any difference in how they ran. Two things worth considering. One: these tensioners were intended to be used with stock type link chains which have a much smoother back than the double rollers typically used in performance builds. 2nd. If you do decide to use one it may not be a bad idea to drill the 4th. bolt hole in the tensioner [ use a standard cam retainer for a template ] and use a bolt with an 1/8 in. hole drilled through the center in the upper left [ looking at it from the front ] bolt hole. This bolt goes through the front of the block and sits in a pocket in the cam valley that collects oil. This would allow oil to drip directly onto the chain and possibly improve wear. Last edited by 5spdcuda; 03/13/12 11:04 PM.

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: 70AARcuda] #1195417 03/12/12 11:05 PM 03/12/12 11:05 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: http://www.monicattichrysler.com/comersus/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=1296 they dont have any... i tried them

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1195418 03/12/12 11:45 PM 03/12/12 11:45 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,575 K KOS pro stock
KOS pro stock K Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,575	Ryan put one in my build and it broke after 1season.the band(tensioner)broke in two hardly any wear on the nylon i noticed it when i did an oil change a piece of it came out with the oil.when i fixed it i didnt put one back in

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: 5spdcuda] #1195419 03/13/12 12:11 AM 03/13/12 12:11 AM
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,415 Toronto M mshred OP master
mshred OP master M Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,415 Toronto	Quote: This is clearly one of those "builders choice" items. I've built them both ways and can't really tell any difference in how they ran. Two things worth considering. One: these tensioners were intended to be used with stock type link chains which have a much smoother back than the double rollers typically used in performance builds. 2nd. If you do decide to use one it may not be a bad idea to drill the 4th. bolt hole in the tensioner [ use a standard cam retainer for a template ] and use a bolt with an 1/8 in. hole drilled through the center in the lower left [ looking at it from the front ] bolt hole. This bolt goes through the front of the block and sits in a pocket in the cam valley that collects oil. This would allow oil to drip directly onto the chain and possibly improve wear. that is some really good advice If I go the tensioner route I'll be sure to do this...thanks!

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: KOS] #1195420 03/13/12 12:11 AM 03/13/12 12:11 AM
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,415 Toronto M mshred OP master
mshred OP master M Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,415 Toronto	Quote: Ryan put one in my build and it broke after 1season.the band(tensioner)broke in two hardly any wear on the nylon i noticed it when i did an oil change a piece of it came out with the oil.when i fixed it i didnt put one back in that definitely doesn't sound too good

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: 471Magnum] #1195421 03/13/12 12:12 AM 03/13/12 12:12 AM
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,415 Toronto M mshred OP master
mshred OP master M Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,415 Toronto	Quote: Here's the wear on mine after a couple thousand miles... For all the guys who have experience with these tensioners, does this wear look normal??

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: 471Magnum] #1195422 03/13/12 12:29 AM 03/13/12 12:29 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,034 Oregon A AndyF I Win
AndyF I Win A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,034 Oregon	We decided not to use one in the 427 SB that was built for Tim's Valiant. The last tensioner got chewed up in just a few laps at the track so we ditched it. 7115871-tension.jpg (177 downloads)

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: AndyF] #1195423 03/13/12 10:18 AM 03/13/12 10:18 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,129 Vermont T TrWaters top fuel
TrWaters top fuel T Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,129 Vermont	Do you suppose that these are getting chewed up because they were orginally designed for a linkbelt chain?

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: AndyF] #1195424 03/13/12 12:08 PM 03/13/12 12:08 PM
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,415 Toronto M mshred OP master
mshred OP master M Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,415 Toronto	Quote: We decided not to use one in the 427 SB that was built for Tim's Valiant. The last tensioner got chewed up in just a few laps at the track so we ditched it. so Andy, what is pictured then should not be happening?

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: mshred] #1195425 03/13/12 12:24 PM 03/13/12 12:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,376 D dogdays I Live Here
dogdays I Live Here D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,376	That Mahle part is not for a smallblock Mopar. Kinda looks like it comes out of a mercedes engine. Go on Rock Auto look at the timing components for a 3.9 V6, there it is. You disbelievers are within your rights, but when I overhauled my Mercedes 6 which sees 6500 rpm on occasion and has a timing chain about five feet long, I found two of the chain tensioners. One was actually just a guide around a corner, the other "banana rail" was hydraulically loaded against the chain and I could have reused it, it was still in decent shape. And I found no trace of any plastic on the oil pump intake screen. R.

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: TrWaters] #1195426 03/13/12 12:39 PM 03/13/12 12:39 PM
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,415 Toronto M mshred OP master
mshred OP master M Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,415 Toronto	Quote: Do you suppose that these are getting chewed up because they were orginally designed for a linkbelt chain? Funny you say this because on summit racing the description for the cloyes tensioner says "for use with silent type chains only"....not too sure what that means, but maybe it is referring to that?

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: TrWaters] #1195427 03/13/12 12:43 PM 03/13/12 12:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,034 Oregon A AndyF I Win
AndyF I Win A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,034 Oregon	Quote: Do you suppose that these are getting chewed up because they were orginally designed for a linkbelt chain? Yes, that is my guess. The tensioners seem to last just fine when mated up to a timing chain with a smooth backside. But ours got chewed up quickly with a double roller type of chain.

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: AndyF] #1195428 03/13/12 03:29 PM 03/13/12 03:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,719 Space Station #5 471Magnum master
471Magnum master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,719 Space Station #5	I'd like to see if anyone has seen any wear beyond what Andy and I have posted pics showing. Like I stated previously, I'm pretty sure the wear stops once the rollers start spreading the load on the pad. -Jim I can fix it... my old man is a television repairman. He's got the ultimate set of tools... I can fix it. Currently Mopar-less

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: 471Magnum] #1195429 03/13/12 07:00 PM 03/13/12 07:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,376 D dogdays I Live Here
dogdays I Live Here D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,376	The abovementioned Mercedes timing chain is double roller and there were grooves that didn't look as ragged as the pictures. After around 90K miles everything was quite smooth and it sure looked like the wear had stopped or slowed way down. As I had already bought the new banana rail I installed it, but wouldn't have had to. There was still quite a thickness of plastic under the grooves. One other thing, wear probably slows down when the chain has worn in a little and there isn't quite so much pressure on the tensioner. But I'm sure the "silent chain" would wear a lot less on the plastic. R.

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: dogdays] #1195430 03/13/12 07:09 PM 03/13/12 07:09 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: The abovementioned Mercedes timing chain is double roller and there were grooves that didn't look as ragged as the pictures. After around 90K miles everything was quite smooth and it sure looked like the wear had stopped or slowed way down. As I had already bought the new banana rail I installed it, but wouldn't have had to. There was still quite a thickness of plastic under the grooves. One other thing, wear probably slows down when the chain has worn in a little and there isn't quite so much pressure on the tensioner. But I'm sure the "silent chain" would wear a lot less on the plastic. R. The silent chain has alot more surface area that rides on the plastic so its much slower on wear... even in the early days on it... the double roller slows right up on wear as soon as the rollers start to ride on the plastic(more surface area)

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1195431 03/13/12 07:52 PM 03/13/12 07:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,875 Weddington, N.C. Streetwize master
Streetwize master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,875 Weddington, N.C.	Small blocks don't seem to get a lot of oil up front so wear/stretch is more heat/fatigue related and of course valvetrain spring tension factors in. I don't run tensioners on them but I am real particular on the chain's I do run on Smallblocks because the slack will vary between sets. I remember some well-respected Old timers used to centerline them +2-3 just to "get 'em right' at high RPMs; like they were 'factoring in' the stretch Retarding them. I also knew guys that would swear by the old link chains but with steel gears claiming the 'silent chains' had less friction Last edited by Streetwize; 03/13/12 07:58 PM. WIZE World's Quickest Diahatsu Rocky (??) 414" Stroker Small block Mopar Powered. 10.84 @ 123...and gettin' quicker! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mWzLma3YGI In Car: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjXcf95e6v0

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: mshred] #1195432 03/13/12 11:11 PM 03/13/12 11:11 PM
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,708 S. Il. U.S.A. 5spdcuda top fuel
5spdcuda top fuel Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,708 S. Il. U.S.A.	I just corrected my original post. It should have said upper left bolt,not lower. Sorry, getting old.

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: 5spdcuda] #1195433 03/14/12 12:44 AM 03/14/12 12:44 AM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,506 Az Crizila master
Crizila master Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,506 Az	Quote: I just corrected my original post. It should have said upper left bolt,not lower. Sorry, getting old. Think most figured that out, but thanks. Fastest 300

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1195434 03/14/12 12:52 AM 03/14/12 12:52 AM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,506 Az Crizila master
Crizila master Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,506 Az	Quote: Quote: The abovementioned Mercedes timing chain is double roller and there were grooves that didn't look as ragged as the pictures. After around 90K miles everything was quite smooth and it sure looked like the wear had stopped or slowed way down. As I had already bought the new banana rail I installed it, but wouldn't have had to. There was still quite a thickness of plastic under the grooves. One other thing, wear probably slows down when the chain has worn in a little and there isn't quite so much pressure on the tensioner. But I'm sure the "silent chain" would wear a lot less on the plastic. R. The silent chain has alot more surface area that rides on the plastic so its much slower on wear... even in the early days on it... the double roller slows right up on wear as soon as the rollers start to ride on the plastic(more surface area) Mine looked like the pic above after about 100+ runs ( double roller chain ). Once the grooves are cut in and the rollers start to ride on the plastic the wear stops. I will be pulling my NA motor down in a few months and I will decide after looking at the tensioner (with close to 200 runs on it ) if I will be putting one on my next motor. Fastest 300

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: Crizila] #1195435 03/15/12 07:32 AM 03/15/12 07:32 AM
Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 20,640 in a cattle trailer down by th... G Guitar Jones Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Guitar Jones Paddle faster! I hear banjo music! G Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 20,640 in a cattle trailer down by th...	The LA engine was fine without a tensioner for over 30 years. MaMopar added it as a bandaid on the odd fire roller motor 3.9 for a noise and now it's supposed to be a performance piece? Not hardly. As others pointed out it was designed to be used with a silent link chain anyway and not a roller. It's unnecassary in my opinion. "Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind" '92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion. '74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon! 2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: Guitar Jones] #1195436 03/15/12 01:06 PM 03/15/12 01:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,129 Vermont T TrWaters top fuel
TrWaters top fuel T Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,129 Vermont	I guess a guy could machine the tension blocks for a roller chain.

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: Guitar Jones] #1195437 03/15/12 09:38 PM 03/15/12 09:38 PM
Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 9,366 Lehigh Acres, Florida rickstershemi master
rickstershemi master Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 9,366 Lehigh Acres, Florida	Quote: The LA engine was fine without a tensioner for over 30 years. MaMopar added it as a bandaid on the odd fire roller motor 3.9 for a noise and now it's supposed to be a performance piece? Not hardly. As others pointed out it was designed to be used with a silent link chain anyway and not a roller. It's unnecassary in my opinion. Never used one on any of our LA motors and don't have one on the 408" either. Rickster

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: Guitar Jones] #1195438 03/15/12 11:16 PM 03/15/12 11:16 PM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,506 Az Crizila master
Crizila master Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,506 Az	Quote: The LA engine was fine without a tensioner for over 30 years. MaMopar added it as a bandaid on the odd fire roller motor 3.9 for a noise and now it's supposed to be a performance piece? Not hardly. As others pointed out it was designed to be used with a silent link chain anyway and not a roller. It's unnecassary in my opinion. Good to know. I'll probably leave it off my next build. Fastest 300

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: Crizila] #1195439 03/16/12 08:24 AM 03/16/12 08:24 AM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,466 Answering the call of the wild T ThermoQuad top fuel
ThermoQuad top fuel T Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,466 Answering the call of the wild	Lemmee try to make some sense here...the 2 reasons not to use a tensioner are: -for 30 yrs they did not use one -some one had trouble because one was improperly installed The tensioner works, I torture tested a few running many laps on the road course, No failures, no issues. I have a log book, but you can't see it. It's a lot of laps which could translate to thousands of 1/4 mile passes. Hows that for data? Some history the tensioner was designed for the V6 to hold the timing steady at idle and thru the rpm range. the roundy rounders discovered it and began running it in their engines with great success. You can't just throw one on the engine with any chain and expect it to work. As in any engine build the parts need to be fitted together for proper fit.

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: ThermoQuad] #1195440 03/16/12 01:46 PM 03/16/12 01:46 PM
Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 733 jacksonville,FLORIDA slammedR/T super stock
slammedR/T super stock Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 733 jacksonville,FLORIDA	I had two of these tensioners break on my 408. They break the spring right where it fixes onto the mounting pad. i only know they were broke when I found a strange piece of metal when i changed my oil. First one broke and rubbed agaisnt my stock timing cover, i thought it was a fluke or defect and bought another one. Well it broke in the same spot and rubbed against my nice billet cover. i also replaced the timing set at the same time in case it was the issue, it wasn't. I also checked the clearances and installation to make sure it wasn't something I did. I have since been running with out the tensioner and instead got the roller bearing conversion from comp that replaces the thrust plate with a torrington bearing for less drag.Both tensioners were brand new from mopar performance. first time was a comp hydraulic roller cam, second time was a billet solid roller lunati cam with JP billet timing sets both cases. DEPUTY 2000 Dakota R/T, 408 magnum, 727, Indy heads 1000cfm 4150 carb, 93 octane fuel. motor; 10.258 @ 132.78 200 shot; 9.262 @ 144.69 racemagnum

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: slammedR/T] #1195441 03/17/12 12:12 AM 03/17/12 12:12 AM
Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 3,333 MARYLAND 69Cuda340S master
69Cuda340S master Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 3,333 MARYLAND	I don't run a tensioner in my 414. Thats one less part I have to worry about failing. Also, most already know this, but soak your new chain in fresh motor oil for a few hours before installing so its not run dry on first start up. Right before I bolt the oil pan on I like to squirt some fresh motor oil on the chain to make sure its nice and wet.

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: 69Cuda340S] #1195442 03/17/12 11:07 AM 03/17/12 11:07 AM
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,415 Toronto M mshred OP master
mshred OP master M Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,415 Toronto	Well I have decided against the tensioner. I have a friend who offered me a brand new comp cams timing set in the box for a really good price, and he is local, so that makes it easier since no one around here carries the tensioner (although Todd aka Competition Wedge was going to take care of me real nice) After looking at pictures of those tensioners over and over, especially the ones of the wear, it got me thinking that even once it wears properly, where does all the "worn off stuff" go? I think im just going to stick with a good chain for now, and maybe do a gear drive on the next motor if it really bugs me Thanks for all the input everyone!

Re: Small block timing chain tensioner- safe to use or not? [Re: mshred] #1195443 03/17/12 12:23 PM 03/17/12 12:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2012 Posts: 323 A A57_RT Parts Problem
A57_RT Parts Problem A Joined: Jan 2012 Posts: 323	A little late to comment since you have made up your mind, ived used them on almost everyting with a added oil provision and esp on my 410, ive had it apart 3 times and have seen no need to replace it. The tenisoner uses 3 bolts, I drill the tensioner for what would be the 4th in the block as it goes into the crankcase, oil comes from there, runs down the front channel of the tensioner and right on the chain in the contact are of the chain/surface. At over 7500 often I show little wear, mainly I use them because of align bored blocks, it takes up any slack vs hunting down a diff chain set. Ive seen many nice builds snap crackle and pop on decel. ive notived ones with the tenisoner stay more stable.

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