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when I talked with the guys with blown up motors and asked them where their timing was set at WOT, most stated their tuners set them between 25 and 26*s. At the dyno with 105 tuning the timing and fuel curves, we heard audible knock at 27* and our DP engine made the most power and tq at 19.5*s thanks to the very efficient chamber design. I'm also a true believer in keeping the knock sensors in the tuning picture. Most tuners take those out of the equation, but I'd rather have the computer pull timing and fuel to save our very expensive engine if it goes into detonation.

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I am also wondering why folks would try to replace the highly efficient EFI system on these engines? I am a carb guy too (Gary Williams dominator), but these systems are hard to beat and are usually included with an engine swap. The 6.1 intake is hard to beat for performance/efficiency up to 7000rpm, there are aftermarket throttle bodies available as well as "stock" higher flowing injectors.

Just my thoughts....

This is a great thread and maybe we can get a Modern Mopar forum set up for these types of discussions?

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I have had several requests for engine pricing information on the Gen III Hemi's. I recently have become a distributor for the PWR engines and can email you a price list with options. I would post it here but can't figure out how to attach the price sheet? Email me if you want a copy of the price sheet.

I tune quite a few of the PWR engines and I can tell you that they take the abuse well and are currently setting records across the country.

Good engines for a fair price.

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For me, primarily it was the fact that the stock 6.1 set-up has absolutley no sex appeal. And with my motor going into old iron (my 70 Road Runner) things must look as cool as they perform......hense the Drag Pack Intake. Long therm plans are go to F.I with the DP Intake, so I didn't want to get into the $1000 conversion wiring harness & stock computor reprogramming blah blah blah....with the stock stuff. So, the simple soution is a carb on the DP Intake.

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I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder Nothing like a dominator sitting on a high rise intake!

But calculate the cost... If you buy a 2005 5.7 swap including the PCM, wire it yourself (not really that complicated, just time consuming) or purchase one of the $750 kits you can buy a used Predator tuning device for $200 and either attempt to tune it yourself or pay me $375. Now you have a grand total of $1500 (or $600 if you wire it yourself) invested in a killer, factory designed system.

Or you can buy a drag pack intake for $900, a good holley carb for $400, some type of distributor system - $$$$$ and then in the future convert to EFI? Custom injector bungs installed in you $900 drag pack intake w/fuel rails - $700
Then you will need and EFI system (ie. Fast, BS3, Holley etc.) close to $2000 + tuning.

I just want to make sure you have all the information and have calculated the total cost. From reading your posts it appears you have thought it out and will build a killer ride!


BTW - if you meant "forced induction" when you said FI, we are making 20+psi on the factory intake, EFI and PCM without issue.

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Have you any expereince tunning the Mopar performance progammable ECM I was wondering what it is. IS it just an OBD2 that moapr unlock to be easier to tune or is it just an aftermarket unit like the FAST units.

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For me, primarily it was the fact that the stock 6.1 set-up has absolutley no sex appeal. And with my motor going into old iron (my 70 Road Runner) things must look as cool as they perform......

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I'm not sure this doesn't have some sex appeal..... It's a customer with a 6.1 swap in a 71 Road Runner

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I am also wondering why folks would try to replace the highly efficient EFI system on these engines? I am a carb guy too (Gary Williams dominator), but these systems are hard to beat and are usually included with an engine swap. The 6.1 intake is hard to beat for performance/efficiency up to 7000rpm, there are aftermarket throttle bodies available as well as "stock" higher flowing injectors.

Just my thoughts....

This is a great thread and maybe we can get a Modern Mopar forum set up for these types of discussions?

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For me, primarily it was the fact that the stock 6.1 set-up has absolutley no sex appeal. And with my motor going into old iron (my 70 Road Runner) things must look as cool as they perform......hense the Drag Pack Intake. Long therm plans are go to F.I with the DP Intake, so I didn't want to get into the $1000 conversion wiring harness & stock computor reprogramming blah blah blah....with the stock stuff. So, the simple soution is a carb on the DP Intake.

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For looks in the old iron I fully understand however in terms of cost. All the carbed intakes for the Hemi are big bucks, I would think it would be cheaper to go the FI route YOu still need a computer to run the spark/timing control anyways. PLus the drag pack is around 1000.00 on it own last time i checked, unless you get a hell of a deal on one.

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For me, primarily it was the fact that the stock 6.1 set-up has absolutley no sex appeal. And with my motor going into old iron (my 70 Road Runner) things must look as cool as they perform......

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I'm not sure this doesn't have some sex appeal..... It's a customer with a 6.1 swap in a 71 Road Runner

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Just needs a procharger setting where the air filter is and I probably would pop the question.

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Have you any expereince tunning the Mopar performance progammable ECM I was wondering what it is. IS it just an OBD2 that moapr unlock to be easier to tune or is it just an aftermarket unit like the FAST units.

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If you are referring to the AEM unit that Mopar resells, no, I have not. It is a "standalone" unit just like the FastXFI and BS3 units. I personally would carefully consider that choice. I have seen quite a few of these units on the market and have had several Mopar performance parts dealers contact me to see if I wanted to buy a unit that they couldn't sell or use.

AEM makes and EXCELLENT tuning system. The rub is making it work with a Gen III Hemi. The factory PCM is more than sufficient for the most builds.

The factory PCM is OBDII like and requires a CMR dealer for detailed tuning. The handheld Diablosport modules will allow some modifications by the owner but they are limited.

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Thanks for the info. As we speak Iam planning on doing the swap. I already have the alterkation K-frame to make my life easier for the swap. So at least that is done . AS of know my plans seem to be once availble pick up a New 6.4L through mopar either complete or Long block. 6/1L intake. Lock the 6.4L cam "maybe a cam swap at this time" unless by the time i am ready to do this There is a better way to control the VCT. Use a older style computer 2010 and back so it can be tuned.

Do you have an engine dyno to tune or just a chassis dyno. Once I get everything said and done I will would like you to do the work. You seem to have a good handle on the the 3rd Gen. hemi stuff and being located in PA not to far away.

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Sounds like you've done your homework! We can't tune the 6.4 pcm yet so going with the 2010 or older PCM is a wise choice. Actually, if you can get a 2005 5.7 truck PCM these are the only units that I know work for certain. I am trying to determine if other model years will work. If other model year PCM's will work try to stick to the pre-2009 since these units have active VE tables to aid in tuning where the 2009 and up do not.

Yes, we have... just a chassis dyno

I actually do quite a bit of email tuning too, so if distance is an issue, as long as you have a wideband or access to a local chassis dyno I can remote tune you.

In your case NY is relatively close and we can get you on our dyno.

Dannysbee -as far as a supercharger I am not partial, Maggie, Kenne Bell, Vortech or Procharger we do them all and the all look sweet! Here's my personal favorite as far as "clean" looking goes a Maggie on a 10 Chally (5.7 vvt) w/spray

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Thanks for the info. As we speak Iam planning on doing the swap. I already have the alterkation K-frame to make my life easier for the swap. So at least that is done . AS of know my plans seem to be once availble pick up a New 6.4L through mopar either complete or Long block. 6/1L intake. Lock the 6.4L cam "maybe a cam swap at this time" unless by the time i am ready to do this There is a better way to control the VCT. Use a older style computer 2010 and back so it can be tuned.

Do you have an engine dyno to tune or just a chassis dyno. Once I get everything said and done I will would like you to do the work. You seem to have a good handle on the the 3rd Gen. hemi stuff and being located in PA not to far away.

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Sounds like you've done your homework! We can't tune the 6.4 pcm yet so going with the 2010 or older PCM is a wise choice. Actually, if you can get a 2008 or older PCM to work you will be better off (2009 and up do not have functioning VE tables).
... just a chassis dyno

I actually do quite a bit of email tuning too, so if distance is an issue, as long as you have a wideband or access to a local chassis dyno I can remote tune you.

In your case NY is relatively close and we can get you on our dyno.

And as far as a supercharger I am not partial, Maggie, Kenne Bell, Vortech or Procharger we do them all and the all look sweet! Here's my personal favorite as far as "clean" looking goes a Maggie on a 10 Chally (5.7 vvt) w/spray

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Thank for the info on the PCM, I will keep that in mind while hunt down parts.

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I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder Nothing like a dominator sitting on a high rise intake!

But calculate the cost... If you buy a 6.1 swap including the PCM, wire it yourself (not really that complicated, just time consuming) or purchase one of the $750 kits you can buy a used Predator tuning device for $200 and either attempt to tune it yourself or pay me $375. Now you have a grand total of $1500 (or $600 if you wire it yourself) invested in a killer, factory designed system.

Or you can buy a drag pack intake for $900, a good holley carb for $400, some type of distributor system - $$$$$ and then in the future convert to EFI? Custom injector bungs installed in you $900 drag pack intake w/fuel rails - $700
Then you will need and EFI system (ie. Fast, BS3, Holley etc.) close to $2000 + tuning.

I just want to make sure you have all the information and have calculated the total cost. From reading your posts it appears you have thought it out and will build a killer ride!


BTW - if you meant "forced induction" when you said FI, we are making 20+psi on the factory intake, EFI and PCM without issue.

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I totally dig what you're saying, but again the factory intake just doesn't do it for me, visually, compared to the DP Intake, and thats a deal breaker. I sold it for $600. Bought the DP Intake for $1000, carb for $300 & for now it works great. I'm using the MSD Hemi 6 controller & will reuse it when I go to Fuel Injection. The DP Intake already has the injector bosses as they run fuel injection.

Yes, it will cost me a few bucks more to go to F.I with the DP intake, but again, the visual appeal is as important to me as the functionality.

Also, I didn't get a factry PCM or factory wiring harness with my motor when purchased. Got a sweet price on the motor though.....$2300

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Thanks for the info! I just read the MSD 6013 manual. I did not realize that they had this unit. Are you running it currently and can you give me any feedback on functionality? It looks like it use the same software I use for my MSD Digital 7.

Thanks in advance,
Mike

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