Originally Posted by Pacnorthcuda
Originally Posted by jcc
Originally Posted by topside
I can see a bit of both sides of the argument, and from experiences like an unbelted wreck as a passenger, and having owned a Corvair and a couple 911s.
Still have the scars from the wreck, and learned handling in SoCal's canyons in the Corvair & '73 911 without putting a mark on them.

What Nader did crate, besides an awareness of safety, was a high profile for himself, and primarily the culture of victimization.
He's the patron saint of an entire class of liability lawyers, and advanced the blaming game as a means to hide behind one's own incompetence.
Obviously one can be hurt or killed in a wreck, but the avoidance of same remains woefully under-addressed.
Witness the "jerk it back" experience posted previously. That never works, unless you want a catastrophe.
That's why I always recommend parents take their kids to a HPDE or race school to learn car control.

By the same token, though, many of the crash-mitigating and survival features are definitely a good thing, especially for innocent 2nd/3rd/etc parties.
And there's no defense for things like the Pinto fuel tank debacle or similar corporate decisions.
I'd say there's a sizable amount of evidence that mankind will put money before everything else, thereby becoming his own enemy.


Yes there are always two sides, simplistic answers are mainly for the simple minded. On victimization, we seem to forget, there normally are 12? peers sitting in judgement. that have the final say, if the they are swayed by smooth talking lawyers, they IMO share a lot of the blame in that regard. Regarding your extremely valid point on car control, which IMo should be ingrained as to be nearly automatic, I feel go karts are the best car control platform for beginners to learn the needed skills. Nobody needs to get behind the wheel ,on the street, until they have mastered a go kart, driven near its limits IMO.


At the risk of being off topic, I’ve noticed that people who live in snowy/icy areas tend to be better “emergency situation” drivers than people who live in warmer climates. When teaching my daughter to drive and the snow fell I told she was going driving, she thought I was nuts. I told her we were going to have fun, a lot of fun, and learn a lot. She did.


I would think your above conclusion has merit.


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.