Originally Posted By fast68plymouth
IMO, if you replaced Brads Victor heads with a set of 300cfm RPM heads, milled for equal compression, and left everything else the same, the motor would have made way less power. I don't think it would be much, but even if it was 40hp less than are the Victors really worth the ROI?

Additionally, in "engine contest" trim, there would certainly be some more power available from that combo.
More aggressive cam, more rigid rocker arms, ported intake manifold, gas ported pistons, lower tension ring pack, 4500 carb on an HVH SS/adapter...... It easily would have made solidly over 700hp. You bring up some good points here but using my 2016 469 I had 1.5 Comp rockers, no spacer, Holley 950 XP 4150, standard tension rings albeit .043" 3mm Total Seal AP's. Had I been allowed to use a spacer then yes I observed 696HP w 1 1/2" Wilson 4 hole, A 4500 would have undoubtedly yielded even more. Again I would ask just how much power are the Victors worth? 40, 50 hp?

When the RPM heads first came out I built a 448 that was very comparable to Brads 452(same cr, similar cam).
I ported the heads to flow in the 300cfm range, and tested them on the motor with a few different intake and carb combos.
At that point, the best intake/carb combo i tried was the Weiand TR with 2 x 650 Demon carbs on it. That made around 595tq and not quite 640hp.
The next closest single carb test was around 625hp, with a similar drop in tq.

Brads Victor combo made 684hp/605tq with an old school HP950 Holley on it(1.375 venturi), which resulted in the motor using 20cfm less air than when the bigger carbs were being run.
Had the bigger carbs been better optimized for the motor, I have to believe some benefit could have been gleaned from that extra 20cfm of air. You know yourself that moving more air but not making power with it is inefficiency. This is telling you that that carb is simply a better fuel mixer. I doubt you could ever turn that extra 20 cfm into power--there no way to trap it without getting into the cam timing events.

With the current crop of std port offerings available, for me the real litmus test would be how much difference in power there would be if you pulled the Victors off Brads motor and plopped a set of ootb TF240's on it.
If it made within 10-15hp of the Victors, then that would be a good argument against the viability of the std port version of those heads, at least at that power level.
It would be a fun test. It would be a cool test and I'm glad you brought up the TF240's. To me there are nothing more than a fully CNC'd RPM with a slightly nicer chamber. I will have an opportunity to work with them soon. Again--I will reiterate, The TF's cannot be any better than an RPM with the stock valve placement and stock rocker offset.

The nuts and bolts of this particular test is that Brad replaced his ported std port Stage 6's and flat tappet cam with the std port Victors and a roller cam and picked up 20ft/lbs and 60hp. I agree but this can easily be attributed to the roller cam swap. I have seen a 50+ gain with my own eyes, same engine/ same dyno 2 days. Also the Stage 6's could have easily been inferior to Victors that you and Brad ported with the knowledge you have gained over the years.

There are a few things I don't really care for in how the Victors are made, but I'd say the biggest "problem" with the std port version for me is the they are cast with the bowls .300 smaller in diameter than they should be.
If they had the bowls sized correctly to begin with(sort of like the original version was), then I would feel better about recommending them for the hot street applications where a high flowing std port head can work. Totally with you on this

As they are now though, they're too labor intensive to be cost effective. Nailed it again



Dwayne I think you and I are on the same page almost all of the time, however I don't think you realize just how underperforming the Victors really are. I don't want to de-rail this thread further with more of their shortcomings (install height, etc....)

In short I view the RPM's especially the 75cc version, and TF 240 as the same in power potential. The only difference is the TF's come fully CNC'd. If Edelbrock was smart they would offer their 75cc version fully CNC'c with a GOOD design at the same price point as TF and with their marketing and distribution TF probably would not sell too many. Edelbrock could then market their NOW JUNK Victor line with revised valve locations and angles with only a large port version CNC'd for serious efforts and probably demolish Indy's sales.

Sorry Brad, not meaning to derail your thread, the question you posed is a very viable one. A large port in this style of head CAN be crutched with headers, aggressive cam, increased static comp, wrong timing curve, etc..... However when these are missed a giant hole in the power curve often shows up.

To sum up: How much more power are the standard port Victors worth over another standard port RPM or TF240? 100hp? nope, 75hp? nope, 50hp? probably not even. ROI @ less than 50hp? Not there for me. J.Rob


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