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Re: carb hesitaition - squirter or??
[Re: John]
#784837
08/28/10 01:05 PM
08/28/10 01:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
Quickfuel's suggestion could be right. I decreased the pump squirt and the bog was gone.
theres a huge difference between a hesitation and a bog. hesitation feels like the motor shuts off for a second and a bog feels like it is just struggling to build rpms. best way I can describe it.
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Re: carb hesitaition - squirter or??
[Re: TonyS451]
#784838
08/28/10 01:38 PM
08/28/10 01:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,718
Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,718
Portage,michigan
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Quote:
Thanks for all the input. I think I have a pair of 42's and 47's I can try. I'm sure the floats are good and the carb is otherwise in good tune. Btw, I called quickfuel today and they thought the squirter may possibly be too big. Said that sometimes if it squirts too much fuel it can break up or hesitate when it tries to burn/clear up all the fuel. Hmmm, would have never thought that. I have 28's I can try too. I just need to find a low traffic area to do some testing! I want to have the hesitation fixed before going to the track so i can just focus on tuning for power and ET.
Btw Josh, I'm pretty sure you are making a good 500 or so more hp than me, but hope you work your stumble out too 
My guess is that actually going smaler might be the actual fix, people seldom dont have enough but they often run out..the smaller( like 28's)will provide a longer sqirt to get you up on the carb and eliminate the problem..
huge squirters needed are usually indicitave of some other issue, Imo.
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam
Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4
1.41 best 60 foot
6.60 at 103.90 1/8
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Re: carb hesitaition - squirter or??
[Re: TonyS451]
#784839
08/28/10 01:40 PM
08/28/10 01:40 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,218
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,218
Bend,OR USA
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To little and to big of a pump shot can cause a hesitation stumble or bog, not the same thing  Make sure all the basiscs are covered first like pump arm adjsutments at WOT and both gaskets in place on both squirters, I have found on most of the cars I have worked on need a 28 to 35 squirters, especially the double pumpers at the track. I have made a car bog with to big and to long, 50 CC versus 30 CC,and hesitate with to little of squirt 
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: carb hesitaition - squirter or??
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#784841
08/28/10 03:56 PM
08/28/10 03:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296
Chicago, IL
TonyS451
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296
Chicago, IL
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Thanks for all the input, it really helps to have all these experienced racers around here! Turns out I do have the pink cam, so that is one area I can likely impove upon.
Just to be clear on my bog/hesitation...I stomp the gas and the car leaves ok, then it starts to stumble/go in and out of power, then clears up around the 1st to 2nd shift and stays clear the rest of the run.
I'm going to try a 28 with the pink cam and if that doesn't help I will try a 42 (biggest and smallest I have). There is a vacant factory lot near my house with a ton of room to do some hard 1st gear launches. If neither of the squirters help any, I'll get on the horn with Jegs and order me up an accelerator pump tuning kit on Monday. trying to make the slicks night test n tune at DaGrove before my kids start school next week.
2 kids and a dog
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Re: carb hesitaition - squirter or??
[Re: TonyS451]
#784842
08/28/10 04:52 PM
08/28/10 04:52 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Thanks for all the input, it really helps to have all these experienced racers around here! Turns out I do have the pink cam, so that is one area I can likely impove upon.
Just to be clear on my bog/hesitation...I stomp the gas and the car leaves ok, then it starts to stumble/go in and out of power, then clears up around the 1st to 2nd shift and stays clear the rest of the run.
I'm going to try a 28 with the pink cam and if that doesn't help I will try a 42 (biggest and smallest I have). There is a vacant factory lot near my house with a ton of room to do some hard 1st gear launches. If neither of the squirters help any, I'll get on the horn with Jegs and order me up an accelerator pump tuning kit on Monday. trying to make the slicks night test n tune at DaGrove before my kids start school next week.
Sounds like your dumping too much fuel after the hit...
I'm a firm believer in the 50cc pumps.... its only
fuel in reserve if its not needed... the squirters
sound like they are too much .... JMO
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Re: carb hesitaition - squirter or??
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#784843
08/28/10 05:05 PM
08/28/10 05:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
Quote:
Thanks for all the input, it really helps to have all these experienced racers around here! Turns out I do have the pink cam, so that is one area I can likely impove upon.
Just to be clear on my bog/hesitation...I stomp the gas and the car leaves ok, then it starts to stumble/go in and out of power, then clears up around the 1st to 2nd shift and stays clear the rest of the run.
I'm going to try a 28 with the pink cam and if that doesn't help I will try a 42 (biggest and smallest I have). There is a vacant factory lot near my house with a ton of room to do some hard 1st gear launches. If neither of the squirters help any, I'll get on the horn with Jegs and order me up an accelerator pump tuning kit on Monday. trying to make the slicks night test n tune at DaGrove before my kids start school next week.
Sounds like your dumping too much fuel after the hit...
I'm a firm believer in the 50cc pumps.... its only
fuel in reserve if its not needed... the squirters
sound like they are too much .... JMO
 after reading that.
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Re: carb hesitaition - squirter or??
[Re: willp]
#784847
08/29/10 07:09 PM
08/29/10 07:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296
Chicago, IL
TonyS451
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296
Chicago, IL
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well i tried putting the pump cam in 2nd hole and seemed to help a bit but still a slight hesitation. Tried 28, 33 and 37 squirters and they all seemed similar. I'm going to pick up a 50cc pump kit and hopefully that will solve the problem once and for all. BTW, why is it important to put the pump cam back to hole one on the street??
FWIW, I also swapped out my 4.5pv for a 3.5 - the 3.5 is better suited to my in gear vacuum reading as per Holleys recommendations. Anyhow, not expecting anything major, but could not notice anything different whatsoever.
Sooo, my neigborhood 1st and 2nd gear blasts were fun and all, but still working out the bugs... I'll keep you posted on the 50cc conversion.
2 kids and a dog
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Re: Carb
[Re: fishy340]
#784851
08/30/10 10:47 AM
08/30/10 10:47 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
i agree pink pump cam,my tires came up after switching..it took that dead spot out completly 
after talking to him in pm's I don't think it's a pump shot issue at all. sounds more like he's running out of fuel right before the second gear shift. not off idle. the pink has the least aggressive profile but more fuel.
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Re: Carb
[Re: Quicktree]
#784852
08/30/10 11:06 AM
08/30/10 11:06 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Re: Carb
[Re: Quicktree]
#784853
09/03/10 12:48 AM
09/03/10 12:48 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296
Chicago, IL
TonyS451
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296
Chicago, IL
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Ok, so I get the 50cc pump kit and install it with the yellow cam it came with. It actually came with a brown one too, but it is thinner and for some reason the pump lever was only riding along the edge. It looked like eventually it could slip off. Either way, I figure the yellow cam is still a good option since it was only one of two included in the kit. So I take it out for a spin and still the same sputtering crap. Turns out my linkage was binding due this goofy thick gasket I got from FBO. Thats a story for another post. I pull the carb off to replace the gasket and also try bumping up the fuel pressure to 8.5 lbs to see if that helps. I take it out for another spin and this time the car pulls hard like it has never pulled before! But heres the thing. When I pulled the carb off and on, I forgot to reconnect the hose from the back of the carb to the pcv. This hardest/cleanest pull ever was done with a hose hanging off the back of the carb vacumm port. After scratching my head for a minute, I realized that the pcv was butted right up against the valve cover baffle and not allowing any room to breathe. We had to do a little "massaging" to the baffles to clear the rockers and never caught that. So I connected a hose from the back of the carb to another vacuum port on the intake and for now the pvc is going to a seperate intake vacuum port. After all this, could this have been a vacuum issue all along? I wasnt even sure the carb needed that port to function, I thought it was more for other accessories that require vacuum and otherwise capped. And how about the pcv, can I run without it? I do have a breather in the other valve cover. Now Im cornfused. BTW, Is there any downside to running the 50cc pump? Anyone ever heard of such goofiness before? 
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Re: Carb
[Re: TonyS451]
#784854
09/03/10 01:31 AM
09/03/10 01:31 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,221
Branson, Mo.
joedust451
super gas
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super gas
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,221
Branson, Mo.
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Quote:
Ok, so I get the 50cc pump kit and install it with the yellow cam it came with. It actually came with a brown one too, but it is thinner and for some reason the pump lever was only riding along the edge. It looked like eventually it could slip off. Either way, I figure the yellow cam is still a good option since it was only one of two included in the kit.
So I take it out for a spin and still the same sputtering crap. Turns out my linkage was binding due this goofy thick gasket I got from FBO. Thats a story for another post. I pull the carb off to replace the gasket and also try bumping up the fuel pressure to 8.5 lbs to see if that helps. I take it out for another spin and this time the car pulls hard like it has never pulled before! But heres the thing. When I pulled the carb off and on, I forgot to reconnect the hose from the back of the carb to the pcv. This hardest/cleanest pull ever was done with a hose hanging off the back of the carb vacumm port.
After scratching my head for a minute, I realized that the pcv was butted right up against the valve cover baffle and not allowing any room to breathe. We had to do a little "massaging" to the baffles to clear the rockers and never caught that.
So I connected a hose from the back of the carb to another vacuum port on the intake and for now the pvc is going to a seperate intake vacuum port.
After all this, could this have been a vacuum issue all along? I wasnt even sure the carb needed that port to function, I thought it was more for other accessories that require vacuum. Now Im cornfused.
BTW, Is there any downside to running the 50cc pump?
Anyone ever heard of such goofiness before?
I said this before, & i'll still say it, if for any reason you need to jack around with pumps/cams to try & cure a stumble or bad bogg is not the cure, its just a bandaid for another problem that needs fixed, whether its in the carbs metering or ign. issues, This is not the cure, most cars (mopars) will run just fine with pink cams & 30cc pumps, look at alot of your Biggs carbs, Quik fuel & so on, they have in most all cases a 31-33 squirter F&R, 30cc pump F&R & pink cams, the only exception being the Dom., if your ign./timing/curve (no vacuum leaks) & metering is set properly for a given combo, all thats needed is fine tuning on the squirters/cams for best excelleration & 60ft., normally there relatively close OOTB.
Now that you "found" a potential problem, get that fixed, then i'd drop the 30cc pump back on with the pink cam & 31 squirter & try it again, you might be very surprized how it runs.
The PCV valve is to release gases from the crankcase, if it was clogged in any way, it will cause issues, most likely relative to what you were having, you can get away with blocking it off & running breathers on both VCs, either way the gases need to get out, emission laws wouldn't allow the gases to escape into the atmosphere, so they got re-burned through the intake, whether the port is on the carbs base or the intake, it gets pulled back in. The 1 way valve on the PCV is there incase theres an ign. backfire, you don't want the flame going back in the engine.
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