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69-383 Motor not making enough low end torque #624394 02/25/10 09:24 PM 02/25/10 09:24 PM
Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 25 TX 6 68 Dart GTS OP member
68 Dart GTS OP member 6 Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 25 TX	Mopart guys, i'm having very low end torque problems. I have a 68 dart 383. It is pretty much stock but bored 30 over, schumacher headers, 383 torker mainifold with a new holley 770 avenger carb, new Comp. XE274 cam and lifters, stock heads ported and polished with HD springs, new pushrods, rebuilt 727 trans, 323 sure grip and 3000 hughes stall converter, stock elct. ignition with orange ECU box. Everything is pretty much new in the motor, compression test is good, vac.is good but it's totally a dog on the low end out of the hole. the motor runs great and it seems to make good power but it just seems like its not getting the power to the rear wheels at launch. I'm starting to think the new in the box stall converter which i bought from a friend may be clogged or have trash in it. Any suggestions are similar problems and fixes would greatly be appreciated. I have gotten pretty frustrated and don't want to just keep throwing more money at it and hope the problem gets solved. Compression is approx 9.5 - 1 to 10-1,vac.@ 14, intl., dist. @ 12. Thanks.

Re: 69-383 Motor not making enough low end torque [Re: 68 Dart GTS] #624395 02/25/10 10:45 PM 02/25/10 10:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,471 renton, Washington ph23vo I Live Here
ph23vo I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,471 renton, Washington	you dont have anywhere near enough initial advance! i,d try 25 deg initial and see if it picks it up... good luck dan

Re: 69-383 Motor not making enough low end torque [Re: 68 Dart GTS] #624396 02/25/10 10:57 PM 02/25/10 10:57 PM
Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,457 oklahoma F forphorty pro stock
forphorty pro stock F Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,457 oklahoma	What does the converter flash to? That 274 cam is what, 230/236 at .050? I would think 3500-3800 stall would be about right for that cam. You might consider switching to a Performer RPM or DP4B too, that Torker isn't doing you any favors in the low end department. As mentioned already. more initial timing wouldn't hurt.

Re: 69-383 Motor not making enough low end torque [Re: forphorty] #624397 02/25/10 11:01 PM 02/25/10 11:01 PM
Joined: May 2005 Posts: 2,295 dark side of the moon D Dougsmopars top fuel
Dougsmopars top fuel D Joined: May 2005 Posts: 2,295 dark side of the moon	The torker intake isn't your freind. Would be ok with 4;10 or 4;30 gears and a 4 speed. My 440 likes 22 degree's initial timing.

Re: 69-383 Motor not making enough low end torque [Re: Dougsmopars] #624398 02/25/10 11:23 PM 02/25/10 11:23 PM
Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 25 TX 6 68 Dart GTS OP member
68 Dart GTS OP member 6 Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 25 TX	Thanks keep the suggestions coming. I have already thought about switching the torker intake and have a old Weiland intake simalar to the eddl.RPM that i'm gong to switch out this weekend to see what kind of improvements it will make along with messing with the timing again, which we have adjusted quite a bit already.

Re: 69-383 Motor not making enough low end torque [Re: 68 Dart GTS] #624399 02/26/10 01:27 AM 02/26/10 01:27 AM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada DaytonaTurbo Too Many Posts
DaytonaTurbo Too Many Posts Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada	Quote: along with messing with the timing again, which we have adjusted quite a bit already. You are going to need to recurve your distributor. No way around that one. I would try first setting it up for 18 initial, 38 total. Then if the motor likes it and doesn't fight back when trying to restart the motor when hot, keep tweaking the initial up as high as you can, but recurve to keep the total at 38. And you'll want all your advance in around the 2500rpm range. I do agree with the other replies, that cam is a bit big for a 383 with 3.23 gears and a 3000rpm converter.

Re: 69-383 Motor not making enough low end torque [Re: 68 Dart GTS] #624400 02/26/10 04:46 AM 02/26/10 04:46 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,511 Tampa , Fl MoparJoe super gas
MoparJoe super gas Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,511 Tampa , Fl	I would try more advance first, as much as you can get without it rattling when you lay into it- probably near 30* base, 36-38* max with 9.5 comp and open chamber heads, if thats not enough get a tight 8" converter or a 4 speed.

Re: 69-383 Motor not making enough low end torque [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #624401 02/26/10 08:59 AM 02/26/10 08:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,123 Grand Haven, MI patrick I Live Here
patrick I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,123 Grand Haven, MI	is that verified or what the pistons are supposed to give? KB flat tops at 0 deck, steel shim head gasket, and OEM 906 heads (~92cc) usually only yields 8.5-8.7:1. with the 6cc dome, its in the 9.4-9.6:1 range....but their specs, you need to mill the deck ~.024" to get them at 0 deck...drop them into an uncut block, drop those compression figures another .2 points. if they are stock type replacement pistons in the hole, you're probably in the upper 7's to low 8's for compression at best, unless you've milled the snot out of the heads or the block deck. what's your cranking compression in PSI? initial with that cam, assuming actual compression is in the 8's, I'd run about 18-20. if your cranking compression comes in low (under 150), I'd seriously consider dropping in cam size a bit (lunati voodoo 60302 is what I'd pick), or opening up the motor and advancing installed centerline of the cam 4-6 degrees to close the intake valve sooner to gain cranking compression. the torker is also a mediocre intake...especially if you're looking for "street" performance... http://hotrod.automotive.com/62106/hrdp-0712-mopar-intake-manifold-comparo/edelbrock-383.html check out the torque figures at 3000 RPM...it's down 25 lb-ft from a weiand action plus, or eddie performer, and most likely a stock intake. Last edited by patrick; 02/26/10 09:06 AM. 1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD 1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod SOLD!* 2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T 2017 Grand Cherokee Overland 2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)

Re: 69-383 Motor not making enough low end torque [Re: 68 Dart GTS] #624402 02/26/10 09:23 AM 02/26/10 09:23 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md	you'll never get good low-end grunt w/ 3.23 gears. [IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/pui5j.jpg[/IMG] Coming soon!!!!

Re: 69-383 Motor not making enough low end torque [Re: Mr.Yuck] #624403 02/26/10 02:56 PM 02/26/10 02:56 PM
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,825 Sk. Canada RemCharger master
RemCharger master Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,825 Sk. Canada	Quote: you'll never get good low-end grunt w/ 3.23 gears. ding-ding. Much more fun with good gears.(4.56)

Re: 69-383 Motor not making enough low end torque [Re: RemCharger] #624404 02/26/10 03:08 PM 02/26/10 03:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,838 Detroit, Michigan, USA! peelerboy master
peelerboy master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,838 Detroit, Michigan, USA!	I'm with the guys on the gear. You'll get your maximum bang-for-the-buck by installing at least 3.91's, if not something steeper. At the very least, get your distributor recurved to allow full advance at a lower rpm. (e.g. 2k) This will bring a lot more low end grunt into play. Dale

Re: 69-383 Motor not making enough low end torque [Re: peelerboy] #624405 02/26/10 03:46 PM 02/26/10 03:46 PM
Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 4,041 michigan woods imfixinmopars426 master
imfixinmopars426 master Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 4,041 michigan woods	remember..a 69 runner came with 3.23's..small carb..a low dual plane intake,and a 214-220@.050 cam..and ran strong. you have..too much cam,too big intake..maybe too low comp= no torque. a dog w/ 3k stall,which w/ no torgue= low flash i bet.2-2200?..and 3.23 makes a pig out of it...oh and set the total at 36deg FIRST! i would look into a 214-224 cam,a performer/perf rpm? intake and tune it right and have a strong driver! classic mis-match issue.

Re: 69-383 Motor not making enough low end torque [Re: peelerboy] #624406 02/26/10 03:54 PM 02/26/10 03:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 472 Downey, IA G Gt383 mopar
Gt383 mopar G Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 472 Downey, IA	That short stroke motor is crying for big gear...That 3.23 is a highway gear for that short stroke, I'd want at least a 4.30 or better to maximize ur combo, u wont believe hat it'll do to that car. If I hafta come in and getchya.......I'm gonna getchya!

Re: 69-383 Motor not making enough low end torque [Re: 68 Dart GTS] #624407 02/26/10 06:29 PM 02/26/10 06:29 PM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,313 Prospect, PA BSB67 master
BSB67 master Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,313 Prospect, PA	Quote: Mopart guys, i'm having very low end torque problems. I have a 68 dart 383. It is pretty much stock but bored 30 over, schumacher headers, 383 torker mainifold with a new holley 770 avenger carb, new Comp. XE274 cam and lifters, stock heads ported and polished with HD springs, new pushrods, rebuilt 727 trans, 323 sure grip and 3000 hughes stall converter, stock elct. ignition with orange ECU box. Everything is pretty much new in the motor, compression test is good, vac.is good but it's totally a dog on the low end out of the hole. the motor runs great and it seems to make good power but it just seems like its not getting the power to the rear wheels at launch. I'm starting to think the new in the box stall converter which i bought from a friend may be clogged or have trash in it. Any suggestions are similar problems and fixes would greatly be appreciated. I have gotten pretty frustrated and don't want to just keep throwing more money at it and hope the problem gets solved. Compression is approx 9.5 - 1 to 10-1,vac.@ 14, intl., dist. @ 12. Thanks. What is your cylinder pressure?

Re: 69-383 Motor not making enough low end torque [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #624408 03/01/10 09:58 PM 03/01/10 09:58 PM
Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 25 TX 6 68 Dart GTS OP member
68 Dart GTS OP member 6 Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 25 TX	Thnaks guys, i know i have a mis-matched set up, i was trying to work from a budget and alot of horse trading to build this car/engine and am paying for it now. The compression check is at 160-165 @ all cylinders, and i went with the recommendation of comp. cams on using the XE274 230-488 cam with the current set up, but they said using higher gears would be better... i debated on using the XE268 cam which is 224-477 but comp. recommended the 274 with the stall speed etc. I'm working on putting the Weiland intake on and going with a higher gear probably 3.55 to 3.90. this is going to be my weekend cruiser and i really want to be able to run 70 mph without all the RPMS. Thanks again to all for your help and imput. Also the Int. timing is at 25-28 which i stated a incorrct int. timing in my original post.

Re: 69-383 Motor not making enough low end torque [Re: 68 Dart GTS] #624409 03/01/10 10:27 PM 03/01/10 10:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md 3 383man Too Many Posts
383man Too Many Posts 3 Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md	Lots of good advise here. I can tell you that I ran a very mild 383 for a few years. I used the same orange ECU with a stock dist I recurved and in fact that same dist is in the 400 in my sons Dart right now. I installed the MR Gasket spring kit and set the total at 38 all in by 2000 rpm. I let the initial timing fall where it did as long as it had full timing by 38 I was happy. The initial was around 18 to 22 when I actually looked at it. It had a stock bottom end including stock pistons. The 452 heads had some mild pocket porting and were cut for 9.5 comp. I had the MP .484 cam in it and used the Eddy RPM intake. Had a 3000 tight TA converter and 3.91's all in a 72 Dart. It had great bottom end as it would fry the street tires even if you nailed it from a 10 to 15 mph roll and it ran as fast as 12.30's @ 110 at the track. I would take some of the advise these guys have given you and get the initial timing up more and definetly 3.91 gears will help. Good luck , Ron

Re: 69-383 Motor not making enough low end torque [Re: 68 Dart GTS] #624410 03/02/10 10:06 AM 03/02/10 10:06 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,123 Grand Haven, MI patrick I Live Here
patrick I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,123 Grand Haven, MI	Quote: Thnaks guys, i know i have a mis-matched set up, i was trying to work from a budget and alot of horse trading to build this car/engine and am paying for it now. The compression check is at 160-165 @ all cylinders, and i went with the recommendation of comp. cams on using the XE274 230-488 cam with the current set up, but they said using higher gears would be better... i debated on using the XE268 cam which is 224-477 but comp. recommended the 274 with the stall speed etc. I'm working on putting the Weiland intake on and going with a higher gear probably 3.55 to 3.90. this is going to be my weekend cruiser and i really want to be able to run 70 mph without all the RPMS. Thanks again to all for your help and imput. Also the Int. timing is at 25-28 which i stated a incorrct int. timing in my original post. one thing I think a lot of mopar guys do is overcam...I woulda listened to the little voice in your head and run the XE268...that said, if you want to keep your 3.23's, I'd definitely run the dual plane intake, and I'd actually pop the front of the motor apart and degree the cam in to a 102* ICL from comp's recommended 106. 1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD 1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod SOLD!* 2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T 2017 Grand Cherokee Overland 2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)

Re: 69-383 Motor not making enough low end torque [Re: 383man] #624411 03/02/10 10:41 AM 03/02/10 10:41 AM
Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,565 tennessee P pushbutton pro stock
pushbutton pro stock P Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,565 tennessee	I'd try that set up with the 3.23's. I think you'll be happy.

Re: 69-383 Motor not making enough low end torque [Re: patrick] #624412 03/02/10 04:49 PM 03/02/10 04:49 PM
Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 4,041 michigan woods imfixinmopars426 master
imfixinmopars426 master Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 4,041 michigan woods	[quote one thing I think a lot of mopar guys do is overcam...I woulda listened to the little voice in your head and run the XE268...that said, if you want to keep your 3.23's, I'd definitely run the dual plane intake, and I'd actually pop the front of the motor apart and degree the cam in to a 102* ICL from comp's recommended 106. exactly! decide what gear to run for YOUR usage,and build the engine for that...dont put 3.91-4.10's and be afraid to drive the car like you REALLT WANT TO!

Re: 69-383 Motor not making enough low end torque [Re: imfixinmopars426] #624413 03/02/10 06:04 PM 03/02/10 06:04 PM
Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,255 IL furious70 top fuel
furious70 top fuel Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,255 IL	unless I missed it in here somewhere, you didn't say and no one asked if you degreed the cam when you put it together? If not, that's an obv. first thing. With a 3.23 gear you may like the Weiand intake better, but if you are going to move to a 3.55 or 3.91 I would personally leave that torker on there. Too late now, but I know several guys who love the XE268 in their 383's. 70 Sport Fury 68 Charger 69 Coronet 72 RR

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