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Re: 70 Challenger T/A - Engine Detailing - Whats correct? [Re: Troy] #511181
11/06/09 09:30 AM 11/06/09 09:30 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
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WI
RestoRick Offline
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Quote:

Here is a photo of the cowl. You can see how the yellow goes over the top of the back paint. Even in this photo it look like a smooth black paint.



Correct, the black was applied first, then masked off before the topcoat color. As Troy points out, you can see some bleed back of topcoat color under the masking.
Non TA/AAR cars had the blackout applied after topcoat color.

As for the type of black... my belief is it was organisol.
I have a perfect organisol sample on hand right now; it's a very fine texture, that can be easily mistaken for smooth especially if dirty & aged.
Logic... AAR's were painted in the same sequence... however, the AAR also had the fender tops, door & quarter upper edges sprayed at the same time as the cowl & fender banding. Why would two different kinds of black be used?

The real dead give away to identify it is to clean it well and look close to see the metallic flecks.

Rick

Re: 70 Challenger T/A - Engine Detailing - Whats correct? [Re: RestoRick] #511182
11/06/09 12:24 PM 11/06/09 12:24 PM
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West Coast, CA
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Quote:


The real dead give away to identify it is to clean it well and look close to see the metallic flecks.

Rick



Hi Rick, hope all is well. On my car, before I started to strip it down I took many pictures of the black paint that was used on the trunk lid and under the rear spoiler.....It was organisol....no doubt about it. I compaired that paint to the cowl and there was a big difference in texture. Where all T/As this way? I don't know.....

....there is nothing like driving my 1968 Hemi Dart around town and having people looking at you like you're nuts!!
Re: 70 Challenger T/A - Engine Detailing - Whats correct? [Re: Troy] #511183
11/06/09 12:30 PM 11/06/09 12:30 PM
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So Cal
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Quote:

however, the AAR also had the fender tops, door & quarter upper edges sprayed at the same time as the cowl & fender banding. Why would two different kinds of black be used?




On an AAR did that fender tops, door & quarter upper edges organasol get put on before or after final color exterior top coat?

Last edited by autoxcuda; 11/06/09 12:40 PM.
Re: 70 Challenger T/A - Engine Detailing - Whats correct? [Re: Troy] #511184
11/06/09 12:34 PM 11/06/09 12:34 PM
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RestoRick Offline
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Doing great Troy!

Very possible...
I haven't seen them all

Funny how anytime words like "detailing, details, OE, etc." are in a thread subject, how fast the topic drifts!!

Re: 70 Challenger T/A - Engine Detailing - Whats correct? [Re: autoxcuda] #511185
11/06/09 12:48 PM 11/06/09 12:48 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
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Ont, Canada
moparo Offline
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yes all before color was applied

performancecarrestorations.com
Re: 70 Challenger T/A - Engine Detailing - Whats correct? [Re: moparo] #511186
11/06/09 01:36 PM 11/06/09 01:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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Hamtramck, PA
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Quote:



The valve cover looks to be later with the raise circle in the front.





Not sure what you mean by "later"? It is a 1970 car & the photo was taken in 1970.

The low mile T/A has the same style.

Since more than one style of washer bottle was available, I am sure it was pretty random as to which one ended up on which car.
Re: 70 Challenger T/A - Engine Detailing - Whats correct? [Re: Alaskan_TA] #511187
11/06/09 01:42 PM 11/06/09 01:42 PM
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Hamtramck, PA
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On the blackout....

One of the engineering drawings states;

"Apply blackout paint or organisol paint in areas indicated"

This is no doubt why some of you have found original cars one way or the other.

Re: 70 Challenger T/A - Engine Detailing - Whats correct? [Re: moparo] #511188
11/06/09 01:44 PM 11/06/09 01:44 PM
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Hamtramck, PA
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Quote:

yes all before color was applied



With the exception of the rocker pinchweld area.

Re: 70 Challenger T/A - Engine Detailing - Whats correct? [Re: RestoRick] #511189
12/04/09 03:19 PM 12/04/09 03:19 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

Here is a photo of the cowl. You can see how the yellow goes over the top of the back paint. Even in this photo it look like a smooth black paint.



Correct, the black was applied first, then masked off before the topcoat color. As Troy points out, you can see some bleed back of topcoat color under the masking.
Non TA/AAR cars had the blackout applied after topcoat color.

As for the type of black... my belief is it was organisol.
I have a perfect organisol sample on hand right now; it's a very fine texture, that can be easily mistaken for smooth especially if dirty & aged.
Logic... AAR's were painted in the same sequence... however, the AAR also had the fender tops, door & quarter upper edges sprayed at the same time as the cowl & fender banding. Why would two different kinds of black be used?

The real dead give away to identify it is to clean it well and look close to see the metallic flecks.

Rick



I dissagree with the black first. This is the tear down of my T/A. You can see in this photo the yellow was first then the black. Download the pic and enlarge it.
Re: 70 Challenger T/A - Engine Detailing - Whats correct? [Re: RareTA] #511190
12/05/09 02:36 PM 12/05/09 02:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
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Mass
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I dissagree with the black first. This is the tear down of my T/A. You can see in this photo the yellow was first then the black. Download the pic and enlarge it.






As with "mass production" of anything, cars, trucks, kids toys, etc,....there may be factory prints, procedures, etc, they all change as production gets underway, some are due to mistakes, some are due to "experimentation", or penny pinching as production is underway,...in the case of different blacks, for black outs,....might have run out of "that" paint that day, and substituted something else, or a certain procedure was done at another work station on the line and Gomer used the "wrong" paint, or what was substitued on purpose or accident ,....back in the day it was Human intervention/mistakes on the line, not robots programed with a set of perimeters

Re: 70 Challenger T/A - Engine Detailing - Whats correct? [Re: DAYCLONA] #511191
02/26/15 10:58 AM 02/26/15 10:58 AM
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Houston, Tx
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Quote:





Mike,
This thread is a blast... Now that I have my own T/A, I'm discovering things... One of my latest detailing questions is the center carb vent and it's relationship with the breather on the pass. valve cover. I see in the picture above and your factory illustration, the 340 pictures had all three nipples;
1. air cleaner base
2. Carb float bowl vent
3. gas tank vent

I thought #3 was only for California Emissions cars in '70 and then bacame standard on all cars starting in '70. I have seen a lot of T/A's and AAR's and haven't seen many, if any, with the gas tank vent. If that's the case and it was only for California emissions, then a production T/A and AAR would have the breather with 2 nipples, both on top, not the bottom-smallest one for the gas tank vent line...

No?

Troy
Houston Mopar Connection Club
'69 Charger Daytona 440 - auto - 4.10 Dana (now with 426 hemi)
'69 Charger 500 440 - 4speed - 3.54 Dana
'70 Road Runner 383 - 4speed - a/c (now with 440)
Re: 70 Challenger T/A - Engine Detailing - Whats correct? [Re: hemi68charger] #511192
02/26/15 08:19 PM 02/26/15 08:19 PM
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Hamtramck, PA
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Single nipple breather on these engines unless the car has N95, 3 nipple breather on those.

On the non-N95 cars the port on the middle carb was open to the atmosphere.
Re: 70 Challenger T/A - Engine Detailing - Whats correct? [Re: Troy] #511193
02/27/15 12:44 AM 02/27/15 12:44 AM
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ontario calif
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ns1aar Offline
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Quote:

And last but not least...

"Most Trans-Am (only) cars have 2 plugs in the floor similar to the rubber-steel plugs for the rear shock towers in the trunk but about half the diameter. I have never seen these on anything other than a Trans-Am car."

Not sure what your talking about here....I don't recall any trunk photos being shown. My trunk floor (and all the other sheet metal) in my car is original, nothing was ever replaced.

That should be it on that subject..

I will say this....I'm no expert when it comes to these cars or any other car but I do love them and respect them. Because of that I put alot of time into the researching them. I don't say things like "Always" "Never" and "Positively" because somebody will prove you wrong.

Jimmy and I started off on the wrong foot and I'm sorry for that. I had a bad day at work and I guess I popped off a little to quick so I'm sorry for calling you out.

Again I would like to thank Berry Washington (Alaskan TA) for all of his photos and knowledge. If anybody would like a CD that is FULL of photos of a VERY low milage T/A, just PM him, IT IS WORTH EVERY PENNY!!!



My AAR had these plugs located over the mufflers. Only thing I could think of was the plastic/rubber might melt.Also had a steel plug located over the side exhaust outlet.

NS1AAR
Re: 70 Challenger T/A - Engine Detailing - Whats correct? [Re: Alaskan_TA] #511194
02/27/15 01:39 AM 02/27/15 01:39 AM
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Houston, Tx
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Quote:

...

On the non-N95 cars the port on the middle carb was open to the atmosphere.



Get out of here !!!! Well, I would have never thought that.... Thanks Barry....

Troy
Houston Mopar Connection Club
'69 Charger Daytona 440 - auto - 4.10 Dana (now with 426 hemi)
'69 Charger 500 440 - 4speed - 3.54 Dana
'70 Road Runner 383 - 4speed - a/c (now with 440)
Re: 70 Challenger T/A - Engine Detailing - Whats correct? [Re: hemi68charger] #511195
02/27/15 10:55 AM 02/27/15 10:55 AM
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Florida
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mopar346 Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

...

On the non-N95 cars the port on the middle carb was open to the atmosphere.



Get out of here !!!! Well, I would have never thought that.... Thanks Barry....



The question I have been running through my mind is was there a stub hose attached or was it bare.

The one at Wellborn's has one and pictures of my car right out of the barn has none. I run with none and believe it correct.

Careful, your character's showing!
Re: 70 Challenger T/A - Engine Detailing - Whats correct? [Re: mopar346] #511196
02/27/15 05:20 PM 02/27/15 05:20 PM
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northwest USA
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Quote:

Quote:


The question I have been running through my mind is was there a stub hose attached or was it bare.

The one at Wellborn's has one and pictures of my car right out of the barn has none. I run with none and believe it correct.



Please define "right out of the barn", are we talking Hamtramck, MI in the spring of 1970? Or sometime later. As you know those will pull out quite easily sometimes.
Re: 70 Challenger T/A - Engine Detailing - Whats correct? [Re: NANKET] #511197
02/27/15 09:19 PM 02/27/15 09:19 PM
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Florida
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:


The question I have been running through my mind is was there a stub hose attached or was it bare.

The one at Wellborn's has one and pictures of my car right out of the barn has none. I run with none and believe it correct.



Please define "right out of the barn", are we talking Hamtramck, MI in the spring of 1970? Or sometime later. As you know those will pull out quite easily sometimes.



Literally pulled out of a barn in South Georgia in the early-mid-80s, in a reasonable state of originality. There is some incorrect items in the pictures from then and it is known that the shortblock was replaced under warranty in 72 with a non-TA 340. By no means an absolute reference but a was a very original lowish-milage car. That is why I ask about the vent tube, I have seen both ways but most every car has some many incorrect items that I can point out that I have not found one I consider proof. Troy's in a N95 car and although I used it for many things in my restoration it is no good for that question. Barry's DVD is the closest to proof, it has no hose either. I believe no hose but I figured I would ask since I had all the experts tuned in.

Thanks, Kevin

Careful, your character's showing!
Re: 70 Challenger T/A - Engine Detailing - Whats correct? [Re: mopar346] #511198
02/28/15 12:30 AM 02/28/15 12:30 AM
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Houston, Tx
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Quote:

...The one at Wellborn's has one and pictures of my car right out of the barn has none. I run with none and believe it correct.



I'm supposed to talk to Tim tonight or this weekend, I'll ask him. Do you have any pictures of what you're talking about.

Troy
Houston Mopar Connection Club
'69 Charger Daytona 440 - auto - 4.10 Dana (now with 426 hemi)
'69 Charger 500 440 - 4speed - 3.54 Dana
'70 Road Runner 383 - 4speed - a/c (now with 440)
Re: 70 Challenger T/A - Engine Detailing - Whats correct? [Re: hemi68charger] #511199
02/28/15 01:22 AM 02/28/15 01:22 AM
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Quote:

Quote:

...The one at Wellborn's has one and pictures of my car right out of the barn has none. I run with none and believe it correct.



I'm supposed to talk to Tim tonight or this weekend, I'll ask him. Do you have any pictures of what you're talking about.



Yes, they're to big to post though. It is a tube from the vent on the center carb bowl, it protrudes beyond the edge of the breather. It has the line like so many factory hoses and is held on with a keystone clamp. His Blue T/A which is a survivor by all accounts has one, his Red AAR which is a surface restoration with moany incorrect items does not have it. I cant say that I have seen it many if any others.

Thanks for info you can come up with.

Careful, your character's showing!
Re: 70 Challenger T/A - Engine Detailing - Whats correct? [Re: hemi68charger] #511200
02/28/15 02:28 AM 02/28/15 02:28 AM
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This is on his blue TA, a survivor from all accounts.

8443477-IMG_2104.JPG (456 downloads)
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