Switching up the intake setup for 2024. My Dad has always loved stack injection, fresh off of drag week and looking over some stack injected cars this W2 Kinsler manifold popped up on marketplace. I sent him the link and next thing I know he bought them! So off came the tunnel ram and the Kinsler manifold EFI conversion is underway.
First thing I learned is that Kinsler components are expensive but quality pieces. Second, the injector fittings are removable so changing them over for electronic fuel inectors is easy. Third, this manifold came off of a short deck block because the valley cover isn’t even in the zip code of working. I’ll either widen this one or get one made from somewhere.
Thoughts on performance? The current combo has been a best of 10.40@127. 3535lbs 10:1 W2 418”. I don’t expect it to hurt anything I just don’t know how much this combo has left in it. It for sure won’t have any lack of airflow with a 2 5/8” throttle blade for each cylinder. Nothing else will be changed other than the components needed to make this intake work.
68 Barracuda Formula S 340
Re: Will this be faster? Or just look cool?
[Re: Bad340fish]
#3201368 01/01/2410:34 AM01/01/2410:34 AM
Don't know about "Way Faster" but should provide an improvement. Gets a little easier (control wise) if your converting to Elec injectors but more parts are going to be required, TPS, EGT sensors plus injector control unit, Assuming you are sending it out for the conversion they should be included in the package. Keeping it mechanical, I would tell you to send it out and have it flowed to your combination and start from there, I have not worked with a Kinsler set up but they are similar to Enderle as far as fuel control goes, once its flowed, make some passes and read the plugs, change the Main accordingly (bigger Main Jet = lean, Smaller Main Jet = rich). Once your close on the base main jet your can then start tweaking the port nozzles to optimize individual cylinders.As you tweak Port nozzles you will need to move the Main Jet up or down to keep the overall balance in check. A word of advice is always favor the Fat side of a fuel tune...Lean can get expensive real quick.This is regardless of fuel type. You can improve performance with Injection vs Carbs do to better cylinder control as mentioned previously, where a carb kind of averages and has a better (less fussy) window, With Injection you can be more specific and has a more finite tuning capability and make changes closer to the time of need (make changes in the staging lanes) for best performance based on current weather conditions..or you can just leave it alone (fat tune) and run it...depends on what effort you want to put into it. Its one of the aspects of racing I enjoy. Also I would recommend you get these from Kinsler, good info and How to stuff including parts (Mine are old....looks like from the 90's) and do some research as well, there's lot s of info out there.
'01 P1500, Blown/Inj BAE,/Veney ,Bruno/CS2,Dana 60 '01 Dodge 3500 S Cummins Auto, Fresh air kit, 4" Exhaust, '05 Dodge Magnum R/T - Too Much to list '60 Willys CJ5 '01 International LPX - Project,DT466, Allison '64 Plymouth Valiant, Inj 528 Hemi, 2spd
Re: Will this be faster? Or just look cool?
[Re: W.I.N. Racing]
#3201391 01/01/2412:32 PM01/01/2412:32 PM
You had a tunnel ram with dual 4bbl throttle bodies already, right? I don't think it's going to pick up much but that is incredibly cool and awesome of your dad to pick it up!!
I don't know how the IAC is integrated on the Kinsler setup but I had a little bit of experience on the Roush crate motors with 8 stack injection. They were very touchy both for the IAC and the throttle/bellcrank ratio. Very small movements in blade position gets you a ton of airflow in comparison to a single 4 or dual 4 setup, so it ends up being jumpy unless you go with a progressive bellcrank and more pedal travel.
'18 Ford Raptor, random motorcycles, 1968 Plymouth Fury III - 11.37 @ 118
Re: Will this be faster? Or just look cool?
[Re: Blusmbl]
#3201464 01/01/2404:59 PM01/01/2404:59 PM
You had a tunnel ram with dual 4bbl throttle bodies already, right? I don't think it's going to pick up much but that is incredibly cool and awesome of your dad to pick it up!!
I don't know how the IAC is integrated on the Kinsler setup but I had a little bit of experience on the Roush crate motors with 8 stack injection. They were very touchy both for the IAC and the throttle/bellcrank ratio. Very small movements in blade position gets you a ton of airflow in comparison to a single 4 or dual 4 setup, so it ends up being jumpy unless you go with a progressive bellcrank and more pedal travel.
Would it be possible to just plumb an 8 way brake size line to a separate manifold that mounts an IAC and just have the butterfly's close for idle?
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: Will this be faster? Or just look cool?
[Re: Bad340fish]
#3201473 01/01/2406:10 PM01/01/2406:10 PM
You had a tunnel ram with dual 4bbl throttle bodies already, right? I don't think it's going to pick up much but that is incredibly cool and awesome of your dad to pick it up!!
I don't know how the IAC is integrated on the Kinsler setup but I had a little bit of experience on the Roush crate motors with 8 stack injection. They were very touchy both for the IAC and the throttle/bellcrank ratio. Very small movements in blade position gets you a ton of airflow in comparison to a single 4 or dual 4 setup, so it ends up being jumpy unless you go with a progressive bellcrank and more pedal travel.
Would it be possible to just plumb an 8 way brake size line to a separate manifold that mounts an IAC and just have the butterfly's close for idle?
Yep-that's one way to do it, although in cold weather you'd typically need 1/4" line to each stack to provide enough air. Lots of the manifolds have a common plenum area underneath and the IAC can be remote mounted and plumbed to that as well.
'18 Ford Raptor, random motorcycles, 1968 Plymouth Fury III - 11.37 @ 118
Re: Will this be faster? Or just look cool?
[Re: Blusmbl]
#3201552 01/02/2402:48 AM01/02/2402:48 AM
No stack injector will make the power of a tunnel ram. BTDT long ago.
Tuned by you maybe I've seen more than one Comp Eliminators car go faster with stack injection that it did with a tunnel ram with two big 4 barrel carbs. tuned by the same racers that were fast
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Will this be faster? Or just look cool?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#3201568 01/02/2409:38 AM01/02/2409:38 AM
This conversation is above my pay grade, I thought the TR vs Stack debate was more of the tradeoffs of the hp benefits of a plenum manifold vs the throttle response crispness, ease of stack length tuning, and precise fuel metering of stacks, the last advantage being somewhat diminished by the addition of port EFI to TR's.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: Will this be faster? Or just look cool?
[Re: jcc]
#3201575 01/02/2410:15 AM01/02/2410:15 AM
I am all on board with the cool factor, and with EFI conversion the fuel curve tuneability gets much easier. And when tuning don't forget the length of the stacks control where the rpm range that the torque is made, you can't tune intake length with a tunnel ram. Not saying that there is enough science on the books to build tunnel rams the right length runner, but you are kind of stuck with what you have. I remember the early prostock days when covers on the manifolds helped hide the length and shape of the runners as a team's speed secret.
Re: Will this be faster? Or just look cool?
[Re: madscientist]
#3201577 01/02/2410:25 AM01/02/2410:25 AM
No stack injector will make the power of a tunnel ram. BTDT long ago.
I guess I will find out lol.
Blusmbl I don't plan to run an IAC, I will drill all the runners for a vacuum line in order to make a small chamber for a common map signal. I'll turn on timing control to help maintain an idle speed. I will only miss it on cold starts most likely.
68 Barracuda Formula S 340
Re: Will this be faster? Or just look cool?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#3201589 01/02/2411:18 AM01/02/2411:18 AM
No stack injector will make the power of a tunnel ram. BTDT long ago.
Tuned by you maybe I've seen more than one Comp Eliminators car go faster with stack injection that it did with a tunnel ram with two big 4 barrel carbs. tuned by the same racers that were fast
I've not noticed that, who are the Comp racers that went faster with stack injection?
Re: Will this be faster? Or just look cool?
[Re: Bad340fish]
#3201606 01/02/2412:21 PM01/02/2412:21 PM
I have a small vac block that is connected to each runner, from there I have a line that goes to a vac storage can it is an overflow tank that seals up that has 2 connections, the other goes to the MAP sensor, it dampens the pulse .smooths out the signal to the MAP, no need for an IAC, going from a Indy single plane & carb to 8stack efi the ONLY change, my converter flash went from about 4200rpm to 5100rpm, smooth idle, much higher vacuum, LOVE IT, just takes some effort to get them dialed in. also NO pcv, just have a catch can breather.
Last edited by CSK; 01/02/2412:23 PM.
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
Re: Will this be faster? Or just look cool?
[Re: CSK]
#3201608 01/02/2412:27 PM01/02/2412:27 PM
No stack injector will make the power of a tunnel ram. BTDT long ago.
Tuned by you maybe I've seen more than one Comp Eliminators car go faster with stack injection that it did with a tunnel ram with two big 4 barrel carbs. tuned by the same racers that were fast
Or maybe, just maybe (and it’s highly likely because over the last FOURTY YEARS I’ve seen very few actual carb tuners or ignition guys) they couldn’t tune a carb.
I know Kinsler says their stack injectors give “each cylinder a precisely measured volume of air to each cylinder” and that’s not only wrong, it doesn’t matter.
There is a reason why you don’t see nearly as many stack injected cars out there as you did in the 60’s through the 80’s.
I stand by my post. Stack injectors are for nostalgia, not making power.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
Re: Will this be faster? Or just look cool?
[Re: madscientist]
#3201649 01/02/2401:45 PM01/02/2401:45 PM
No stack injector will make the power of a tunnel ram. BTDT long ago.
Tuned by you maybe I've seen more than one Comp Eliminators car go faster with stack injection that it did with a tunnel ram with two big 4 barrel carbs. tuned by the same racers that were fast
Or maybe, just maybe (and it’s highly likely because over the last FOURTY YEARS I’ve seen very few actual carb tuners or ignition guys) they couldn’t tune a carb.
I know Kinsler says their stack injectors give “each cylinder a precisely measured volume of air to each cylinder” and that’s not only wrong, it doesn’t matter.
There is a reason why you don’t see nearly as many stack injected cars out there as you did in the 60’s through the 80’s.
I stand by my post. Stack injectors are for nostalgia, not making power.
LOL, as you said people cant even tune a CARB, Stack EFI is not for that type of person, it takes a LOT of work to get the 8 stack working right, you can also TUNE it with different length ram tubes to match the engine, & guess what ???????? that make more power LOL, mine is a street strip car drive great & the power is INSTANT !!!!!!
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5