Will this be faster? Or just look cool?

Switching up the intake setup for 2024. My Dad has always loved stack injection, fresh off of drag week and looking over some stack injected cars this W2 Kinsler manifold popped up on marketplace. I sent him the link and next thing I know he bought them! So off came the tunnel ram and the Kinsler manifold EFI conversion is underway.

First thing I learned is that Kinsler components are expensive but quality pieces. Second, the injector fittings are removable so changing them over for electronic fuel inectors is easy. Third, this manifold came off of a short deck block because the valley cover isn’t even in the zip code of working. I’ll either widen this one or get one made from somewhere.

Thoughts on performance? The current combo has been a best of 10.40@127. 3535lbs 10:1 W2 418”. I don’t expect it to hurt anything I just don’t know how much this combo has left in it. It for sure won’t have any lack of airflow with a 2 5/8” throttle blade for each cylinder. Nothing else will be changed other than the components needed to make this intake work.

We first saw this concept on the Ed Pink or Kieth Black SB mopar for a stillborn Indy attempt in the 60's?
Its way cool btw. Kudos to your Dad.

Don't know about "Way Faster" but should provide an improvement. Gets a little easier (control wise) if your converting to Elec injectors but more parts are going to be required, TPS, EGT sensors plus injector control unit, Assuming you are sending it out for the conversion they should be included in the package. Keeping it mechanical, I would tell you to send it out and have it flowed to your combination and start from there, I have not worked with a Kinsler set up but they are similar to Enderle as far as fuel control goes, once its flowed, make some passes and read the plugs, change the Main accordingly (bigger Main Jet = lean, Smaller Main Jet = rich). Once your close on the base main jet your can then start tweaking the port nozzles to optimize individual cylinders.As you tweak Port nozzles you will need to move the Main Jet up or down to keep the overall balance in check. A word of advice is always favor the Fat side of a fuel tune...Lean can get expensive real quick.This is regardless of fuel type.
You can improve performance with Injection vs Carbs do to better cylinder control as mentioned previously, where a carb kind of averages and has a better (less fussy) window, With Injection you can be more specific and has a more finite tuning capability and make changes closer to the time of need (make changes in the staging lanes) for best performance based on current weather conditions..or you can just leave it alone (fat tune) and run it...depends on what effort you want to put into it. Its one of the aspects of racing I enjoy.
Also I would recommend you get these from Kinsler, good info and How to stuff including parts (Mine are old....looks like from the 90's) and do some research as well, there's lot s of info out there.

The car already has EFI so I have all that stuff. I will need to get creative with the tps though as there is no provision for a standard TPS.

...Might be a draw then. But the Cool factor is way up

You had a tunnel ram with dual 4bbl throttle bodies already, right? I don't think it's going to pick up much but that is incredibly cool and awesome of your dad to pick it up!!

I don't know how the IAC is integrated on the Kinsler setup but I had a little bit of experience on the Roush crate motors with 8 stack injection. They were very touchy both for the IAC and the throttle/bellcrank ratio. Very small movements in blade position gets you a ton of airflow in comparison to a single 4 or dual 4 setup, so it ends up being jumpy unless you go with a progressive bellcrank and more pedal travel.

Would it be possible to just plumb an 8 way brake size line to a separate manifold that mounts an IAC and just have the butterfly's close for idle?

It will likely tilt the power curve towards higher rpm.

Yep-that's one way to do it, although in cold weather you'd typically need 1/4" line to each stack to provide enough air. Lots of the manifolds have a common plenum area underneath and the IAC can be remote mounted and plumbed to that as well.

No stack injector will make the power of a tunnel ram. BTDT long ago.

Tuned by you maybe
I've seen more than one Comp Eliminators car go faster with stack injection that it did with a tunnel ram with two big 4 barrel carbs. tuned by the same racers that were fast

This conversation is above my pay grade, I thought the TR vs Stack debate was more of the tradeoffs of the hp benefits of a plenum manifold vs the throttle response crispness, ease of stack length tuning, and precise fuel metering of stacks, the last advantage being somewhat diminished by the addition of port EFI to TR's.

I am all on board with the cool factor, and with EFI conversion the fuel curve tuneability gets much easier. And when tuning don't forget the length of the stacks control where the rpm range that the torque is made, you can't tune intake length with a tunnel ram. Not saying that there is enough science on the books to build tunnel rams the right length runner, but you are kind of stuck with what you have. I remember the early prostock days when covers on the manifolds helped hide the length and shape of the runners as a team's speed secret.

I guess I will find out lol.

Blusmbl I don't plan to run an IAC, I will drill all the runners for a vacuum line in order to make a small chamber for a common map signal. I'll turn on timing control to help maintain an idle speed. I will only miss it on cold starts most likely.

I've not noticed that, who are the Comp racers that went faster with stack injection?

I have a small vac block that is connected to each runner, from there I have a line that goes to a vac storage can it is an overflow tank that seals up that has 2 connections, the other goes to the MAP sensor, it dampens the pulse .smooths out the signal to the MAP, no need for an IAC, going from a Indy single plane & carb to 8stack efi the ONLY change, my converter flash went from about 4200rpm to 5100rpm, smooth idle, much higher vacuum, LOVE IT, just takes some effort to get them dialed in. also NO pcv, just have a catch can breather.

catch can

This car had mechanical injection, thoroughly worked out by Chrysler and Hilborn, so probably not typical.

It was a friend of mines car and it was really fun to run.

Hopefully Clark will have as much fun with his setup as we did with this one.

Or maybe, just maybe (and it’s highly likely because over the last FOURTY YEARS I’ve seen very few actual carb tuners or ignition guys) they couldn’t tune a carb.

I know Kinsler says their stack injectors give “each cylinder a precisely measured volume of air to each cylinder” and that’s not only wrong, it doesn’t matter.

There is a reason why you don’t see nearly as many stack injected cars out there as you did in the 60’s through the 80’s.

I stand by my post. Stack injectors are for nostalgia, not making power.

LOL, as you said people cant even tune a CARB, Stack EFI is not for that type of person, it takes a LOT of work to get the 8 stack working right, you can also TUNE it with different length ram tubes to match the engine, & guess what ???????? that make more power LOL, mine is a street strip car drive great & the power is INSTANT !!!!!!

You dont see many 8stack EFI set ups because people are afraid of them, and EFI 8Stack has not been around for very long.

i for one am impressed with your car CSK !
like you said, not many can tune stack injection, mainly because they are afraid of it.
same can be said of the Thermo-Quad.
it takes time and effort, probably way more than most want to spend learning in today's "instant gratification" society.

Thank you its a LOVE hate relationship LOL, has taken a lot to get it streetable

Aren’t they all a love/hate relationship lol??

Getting the closed throttle 8 blades open the same amount is a [censored], i use a small flow meter on each runner to get them balanced
[video:youtube]https://youtube.com/shorts/Vn8igQFrOis?feature=share[/video]

Wasn't that engine in the white stick shift Mustang you brought over to my folks' place, that we buzzed around in?

That was a fun car, I remember it running great, made an impression on me.

Right on- you should be ok. I think Roush only did it because they sold the 402/427 8 stack crate motors as turn key solutions that usually went in Cobra kit cars, so they wanted the best drivability possible when it was cold just to be safe. Also, depending on your cam, you might have to blend between alpha n and speed density off idle.

Edit: Rich, yep, that was one of them. The white SN95 had an 8 stack 427 with a TKO 5 speed. We also had a red fox GT hatchback, it had an 8 stack 402. The red car eventually got a 350 Chevy crate motor, then an ex-Nascar motor, then a milder carbureted Windsor. An old coworker finally bought it and now uses it as a track car.

While I like the looks of the TR, take one for the team and make your dad happy! If my dad were more closely involved, I'd probably retrofit one of his RC boat engines in my junker at this point? There's gotta be a major weight break too?