Re: Selling a hemi car privately. What aPain
[Re: srt]
#3043682
05/19/22 06:06 PM
05/19/22 06:06 PM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,823 Wind Gap,Pa.
Sammy
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,823
Wind Gap,Pa.
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Any chance fuel sloshing around on trip and ethanol laced fuel on fuel system components could have changed anything? This is part of the subjective stuff than can be cleared up on the suggested "fact finding" inquiry. I wouldn't open a can of worms, nor be the catalyst that gets this guy coming at you. Just a simple q "what's your idea to fix". Bottom line is that if he does not "go away" the list of "stuff" might become unfathomable. This car was rebuilt correctly. Built to OE Gold standards. The car is stunning front to back. Highly detailed. Car ran perfectly for 30 miles. Dropped it off then 20 minutes later started right up and moved in to his garage. Idled perfectly. I've owned rhis car for close to 20 years. Always ran great and started right up. There is no way this car needed a tune up. Brought it to a bunch of car cruises throughout the years. This guy was just a royal PITA containing about everything. The deal went smooth up until I got all the funds then all of a sudden a million questions over and over. I knew then and there, it was phucked.
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Re: Selling a hemi car privately. What aPain
[Re: SomeCarGuy]
#3043685
05/19/22 06:09 PM
05/19/22 06:09 PM
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Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 1,181 Nor here, Nor there
Dart 500
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 1,181
Nor here, Nor there
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You need to step back from this and get focused on what you can control. Worrying about what texts you have about an unsigned bill of sale isn’t going to get this to go away. Sure, save those, but as tjp said, a court may laugh at that as anything to be concerned with.
Cease communications until you speak to an attorney, and focus on finding one with experience with such a mess. Or wait until his sends a letter and then get one. These are things you can control. If you want to ask him what it will take to “make this right” to get you peace on the matter, that’s another thing you can control. Personally I would see if he moves on before doing that one.
History of the future- if he’s a game player with means or an accomplice attorney(himself, brother, friend) he can shake you down. A lawsuit will cost at least 15k. For you. He may not face as much if he has the right setup. The game will be chicken to see who will shell out the opening salvo in court, or see if the other guy coughs up 5k to make it go away. He’ll drum up a 30k invoice for a paint job, parts missing, engine work, etc. so you will have to choose to fight on principle or pay a lesser amount to get away from him. Will a judge or jury have knowledgeable car people that will see the issues with understanding, or will they see pictures taken to accent a flaky spot or rust on the back of a bumper and see it as you sold him a lemon? This - stop all communication until he makes the next move, which I doubt he even does as it sounds like he is hoping you just send him money. I doubt he gets an attorney involved and likely goes away but he wont until you stop communicating with him.
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Re: Selling a hemi car privately. What aPain
[Re: Dart 500]
#3043744
05/19/22 09:08 PM
05/19/22 09:08 PM
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,175 Md.
carnut68
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,175
Md.
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You need to step back from this and get focused on what you can control. Worrying about what texts you have about an unsigned bill of sale isn’t going to get this to go away. Sure, save those, but as tjp said, a court may laugh at that as anything to be concerned with.
Cease communications until you speak to an attorney, and focus on finding one with experience with such a mess. Or wait until his sends a letter and then get one. These are things you can control. If you want to ask him what it will take to “make this right” to get you peace on the matter, that’s another thing you can control. Personally I would see if he moves on before doing that one.
History of the future- if he’s a game player with means or an accomplice attorney(himself, brother, friend) he can shake you down. A lawsuit will cost at least 15k. For you. He may not face as much if he has the right setup. The game will be chicken to see who will shell out the opening salvo in court, or see if the other guy coughs up 5k to make it go away. He’ll drum up a 30k invoice for a paint job, parts missing, engine work, etc. so you will have to choose to fight on principle or pay a lesser amount to get away from him. Will a judge or jury have knowledgeable car people that will see the issues with understanding, or will they see pictures taken to accent a flaky spot or rust on the back of a bumper and see it as you sold him a lemon? This - stop all communication until he makes the next move, which I doubt he even does as it sounds like he is hoping you just send him money. I doubt he gets an attorney involved and likely goes away but he wont until you stop communicating with him. Excellent advice.
America First!
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Re: Selling a hemi car privately. What aPain
[Re: Dart 500]
#3043753
05/19/22 09:36 PM
05/19/22 09:36 PM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,823 Wind Gap,Pa.
Sammy
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,823
Wind Gap,Pa.
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You need to step back from this and get focused on what you can control. Worrying about what texts you have about an unsigned bill of sale isn’t going to get this to go away. Sure, save those, but as tjp said, a court may laugh at that as anything to be concerned with.
Cease communications until you speak to an attorney, and focus on finding one with experience with such a mess. Or wait until his sends a letter and then get one. These are things you can control. If you want to ask him what it will take to “make this right” to get you peace on the matter, that’s another thing you can control. Personally I would see if he moves on before doing that one.
History of the future- if he’s a game player with means or an accomplice attorney(himself, brother, friend) he can shake you down. A lawsuit will cost at least 15k. For you. He may not face as much if he has the right setup. The game will be chicken to see who will shell out the opening salvo in court, or see if the other guy coughs up 5k to make it go away. He’ll drum up a 30k invoice for a paint job, parts missing, engine work, etc. so you will have to choose to fight on principle or pay a lesser amount to get away from him. Will a judge or jury have knowledgeable car people that will see the issues with understanding, or will they see pictures taken to accent a flaky spot or rust on the back of a bumper and see it as you sold him a lemon? This - stop all communication until he makes the next move, which I doubt he even does as it sounds like he is hoping you just send him money. I doubt he gets an attorney involved and likely goes away but he wont until you stop communicating with him. After he tried to extort money from me and started handing me this bull chit about fouled sparkplug and bad sparkplug wires and needing a tuneup. BTW it had a Pertronix setup under the distributor cap. I knew this guy was going to be trouble and keep complaining so I blocked him. He sent a few more texts and tried calling 3 more times. Hopefully he just goes away.
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Re: Selling a hemi car privately. What aPain
[Re: Sammy]
#3043758
05/19/22 09:58 PM
05/19/22 09:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,348 Omaha Ne
TJP
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,348
Omaha Ne
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You need to step back from this and get focused on what you can control. Worrying about what texts you have about an unsigned bill of sale isn’t going to get this to go away. Sure, save those, but as tjp said, a court may laugh at that as anything to be concerned with.
Cease communications until you speak to an attorney, and focus on finding one with experience with such a mess. Or wait until his sends a letter and then get one. These are things you can control. If you want to ask him what it will take to “make this right” to get you peace on the matter, that’s another thing you can control. Personally I would see if he moves on before doing that one.
History of the future- if he’s a game player with means or an accomplice attorney(himself, brother, friend) he can shake you down. A lawsuit will cost at least 15k. For you. He may not face as much if he has the right setup. The game will be chicken to see who will shell out the opening salvo in court, or see if the other guy coughs up 5k to make it go away. He’ll drum up a 30k invoice for a paint job, parts missing, engine work, etc. so you will have to choose to fight on principle or pay a lesser amount to get away from him. Will a judge or jury have knowledgeable car people that will see the issues with understanding, or will they see pictures taken to accent a flaky spot or rust on the back of a bumper and see it as you sold him a lemon? This - stop all communication until he makes the next move, which I doubt he even does as it sounds like he is hoping you just send him money. I doubt he gets an attorney involved and likely goes away but he wont until you stop communicating with him. After he tried to extort money from me and started handing me this bull chit about fouled sparkplug and bad sparkplug wires and needing a tuneup. BTW it had a Pertronix setup under the distributor cap. I knew this guy was going to be trouble and keep complaining so I blocked him. He sent a few more texts and tried calling 3 more times. Hopefully he just goes away. EDITEDI'll bet he doesn't There is some experienced advice in this post that you should be listening to. Some Car Guy's input is one, mine is another SRT's is another yet, and maybe a few more. I would suggest being proactive (step 1 Attorney) rather than burying your head in the sand HOPING he'll go away.(Not trying to be offensive just stating facts). Being Reactive is usually not a good idea for several reasons The things he's complaining about would be less that 2k to fix at the most. A person that spent 100K (guessing) on a car is not going to be acting this way. I have dealt with many customers over the last 25 years that have been FRIED on purchases. in almost all cases the repairs are made or the cars have gone to auction. Only ONE went back to the seller demanding his $$ back on a blatant fraud. The did not know who he was dealing with A close relative of a very wealthy well known individual with influential AND world wide contacts, OOPPS. BTW this same individual has over 125 cars in his collection. He had been burned before and this was the only time he went back to the seller. The seller told him to take a hike and soon after received a call for the Tennessee State Attorney generals office encouraging him to buy the car back ASAP before things got ugly LMAO. The seller PROMPTLY sent a check overnight covering ALL the buyer's expenses including my fees, auction, and transportation costs. Don't know where the car wound up but I did look for it for several years. the seller was also banned from the well known auction company as he had sold 4 or 5 other fraudulent cars at the same auction I'm done trying to help at this point FYI: there was an attorney that used to advertise in Hemmings that specialized in classic car transactions. Don't know if he is still advertising in there or not Good luck and do keep us posted
Last edited by TJP; 05/20/22 10:54 AM.
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Re: Selling a hemi car privately. What aPain
[Re: srt]
#3043792
05/20/22 05:58 AM
05/20/22 05:58 AM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,240 nowhere
Sniper
master
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master
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,240
nowhere
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Only thing to add is that buyer is pizzed. Not about 2k in work, but his perceived treatment of what seems minor as to what we are hearing. He feels there has been misrepresentation. Will it get worse the more he's ignored? Battle of wits vs battle of principals? We can't judge, have only given thoughts. He had someone of his choosing look at the vehicle, IIRC. Then burden isn't on the OP, imo.
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Re: Selling a hemi car privately. What aPain
[Re: srt]
#3043863
05/20/22 11:31 AM
05/20/22 11:31 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,348 Omaha Ne
TJP
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,348
Omaha Ne
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Keep in mind the bow" flipped" or whatever as seller was taking it to delivery. Ran "perfectly" on trip to drop off. I have no other basis for belief conditions changed post agent inspection (was that his appointed task?). The bow itself could have been disclosed prior to transit, while the perceived tune issues need to be figured out. Each item can be further looked into, not to discredit either seller or buyer, simply to figure it out. Heck price for what the seller (did you mean buyer?)is asking, negotiate a 50-50 split and be done with it. Or not, and lose sleep and potential to spend lots of $ on a battle of wits and bowed backs. p.s. we are basing our opinions based on one perspective and source of info. Not judging anyone it's important to see it from both sides. Very well said and correct, IF you are dealing with a normal person which it does not sound like he is IF he is dealing with a SCROTE, there is no reasoning with them. Even asking them what they want / or will settle for only encourages them as they now: 1. Feel they are justified 2. Now have potential proof that you're admitting to their claims 3. Believe you knowingly misrepresented the transaction 4. Believe they now have the upper hand 5 .Will scrutinize every miniscule detail 6. In doing so, will find more problems and raise their demands. 7. Will follow though with an attorney as they now believe they have enough to win a judgment or get you to deposition where they will squeeze for even more $$ to settle. 8. At this point the OP has lost lots of sleep and $ on a battle that could not be reasonably resolved no matter what was offered
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Re: Selling a hemi car privately. What aPain
[Re: TJP]
#3043869
05/20/22 11:48 AM
05/20/22 11:48 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,341 Crook County, ILL
Mastershake340
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,341
Crook County, ILL
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The market has been super hot lately, hopefully it will remain that way despite the plunging stock market and general malaise our economy is falling into. If the buyer is playing some game trying to extort money out of you, why not call his bluff. Tell him you will take the car back, and refund his money. Is he far away? Might have to pick it up, pay for shipping or split shipping, but get the car back. Tell him you have others interested in the car, you want a good home for it and he isn't happy so it would be best to sell it to someone who is really excited about owning it. Unless he paid some outrageous price to you, you can almost certainly get the same selling price from another buyer. Don't offer to refund any % of the sales price to cover problems he found real or imagined, just offer to take it back refunding the full selling price, with the stipulation it has to be in the same condition it was when you relinquished possession to him.
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Re: Selling a hemi car privately. What aPain
[Re: TJP]
#3043895
05/20/22 12:32 PM
05/20/22 12:32 PM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,823 Wind Gap,Pa.
Sammy
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,823
Wind Gap,Pa.
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Keep in mind the bow" flipped" or whatever as seller was taking it to delivery. Ran "perfectly" on trip to drop off. I have no other basis for belief conditions changed post agent inspection (was that his appointed task?). The bow itself could have been disclosed prior to transit, while the perceived tune issues need to be figured out. Each item can be further looked into, not to discredit either seller or buyer, simply to figure it out. Heck price for what the seller (did you mean buyer?)is asking, negotiate a 50-50 split and be done with it. Or not, and lose sleep and potential to spend lots of $ on a battle of wits and bowed backs. p.s. we are basing our opinions based on one perspective and source of info. Not judging anyone it's important to see it from both sides. Very well said and correct, IF you are dealing with a normal person which it does not sound like he is IF he is dealing with a SCROTE, there is no reasoning with them. Even asking them what they want / or will settle for only encourages them as they now: 1. Feel they are justified 2. Now have potential proof that you're admitting to their claims 3. Believe you knowingly misrepresented the transaction 4. Believe they now have the upper hand 5 .Will scrutinize every miniscule detail 6. In doing so, will find more problems and raise their demands. 7. Will follow though with an attorney as they now believe they have enough to win a judgment or get you to deposition where they will squeeze for even more $$ to settle. 8. At this point the OP has lost lots of sleep and $ on a battle that could not be reasonably resolved no matter what was offered I feel exactly the same and you are 100% correct. This guy has more money than brains. I'm just hoping this guy goes away. It's going to cost him more in lawyer fees that it's worth. A few small repairs and this car is magnificent.
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Re: Selling a hemi car privately. What aPain
[Re: srt]
#3044011
05/20/22 09:18 PM
05/20/22 09:18 PM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,240 nowhere
Sniper
master
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master
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,240
nowhere
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You're bolder than I as I tip-toed around the buyers story. I'm not challenging the op position at all. The subjective part is we hear one perspective. We are not privy to all sorts of details. With that it is difficult to lay out a path to resolution. The middle road typically is the less messy one regardless of the situation. It is quite simple, to me. The buyer had an inspector of his choice look at it. The buyer bought it without any complaint. Now the buyer is wanting a refund of some sort. The time for negotiating the price was before cash was exchanged. F-off would be my response.
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Re: Selling a hemi car privately. What aPain
[Re: srt]
#3044017
05/20/22 09:44 PM
05/20/22 09:44 PM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,823 Wind Gap,Pa.
Sammy
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,823
Wind Gap,Pa.
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Yes, Buyer.
We're participating in exchanging ideas based on what you've presented. "older restoration" to "magnificent" is where the issue lays. I think you have received a range of answers to what you have presented. I believe you plan to ignore him and see what happens. It seems the buyer feels some items were misrepresented, or changed after it was described/or seen. Was his "agent" a knowledgeable inspector, or lizzard-skin deliverer? I do believe that guy is the sort that the little fixes should have been disclosed. If something changed, a reasonable approach by both parties can get it resolved. There is some items that could be clarified for those un-involved. (But I have no interest in hearing more details). It will be interesting to hear of anything that transpires as the days wear on.
His agent owns over 35 high end mopars and pontiac gross. I told him about the headliner prior to him picking up the car for transport. As far as an older restoration, when a car is restored correctly, and stored in a climate controlled environment, the car looked almost exactly as when it was restored. The guy who inspected thought the car was absolutely beautiful. He called the guy twice and said the car was super clean. The buyer rushed the sale and I was rushed off the property. I wasn't even able to get the bill of sale scanned and returned.
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Re: Selling a hemi car privately. What aPain
[Re: moparmike1]
#3044072
05/21/22 08:16 AM
05/21/22 08:16 AM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,823 Wind Gap,Pa.
Sammy
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,823
Wind Gap,Pa.
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Sammy,
Have you made an appointment with your lawyer/attorney yet?
I'm not the only one who recommended this.
Mike. I spoke to my lawyer last night. I explained the situation and he said let's wait and see if this guy escalates the situation. No need to jump the gun but we are now prepared.
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