Selling a hemi car privately. What aPain

Im really at my wits end with this guy who just bought my hemi car.
I decided after 35 years to part with my baby. It was older restoration but still looked great. He bought the car sight unseen. Gave him plenty of pictures and I gave him the most accurate description as possible.
He just received the car and he was easy to deal with at 1st when he gave me a deposit.
After deposit and many phone calls, he started getting a little intense and became a real PITA.
He just received the car and now is picking it apart wanting me to give him money back. I signed the bill of sale but they took the car without signing it.
What's your thoughts on this matter?

Don't fall for it... He could have had the vehicle inspected at any time... After the sale is no time for negotiation...

All sales final. No warranties express or implied.

As long as you didn’t misrepresent your car, there is nothing that you should be concerned about.
Buyers remorse is not your problem. You are not a bad person if you just ignore him at this point.

This, plus this "as is" "no refunds or returns".....on all my bill of sales!

They drove away without signing the bill of sale.
The guy got really annoying and asked a million questions before the deposit was made. I told him everything I knew and was totally transparent.
Now he's texting me like crazy wanting me to give him money back.
Should I just block him?

.

All of it,, or a portion?.
If all. and money's securely transferred to you, then No.
If a portion, and they can somehow dispute the payment, maybe yes.
Yes: because of something you may have overlooked.
Seems bought sight-unseen by them.
That's a "risk" a buyer knowingly takes & therefore must assume any repercussions.

I received all the money with wire transfer. If there's no bill of sale what's the repercussions?
He is asking what am I going to do for him?

1. Put together all of your paperwork and pictures.

2. Document a timeline of how the transaction took place, i.e. from the first point of contact with the buyer to the last point of contact you had with the car.

3. Call your lawyer's office Monday morning, make an appointment with your lawyer, explain the situation and ask for his advice.

4. Follow your lawyer's advice.

Mike.

He made the choice to purchase the car sight unseen with no inspection and you were honest. I think he’s likely just hoping you’re going to bite and save him some money.
Unless it’s something rather serious that you missed I’d tell him no refunds!
KID

Let’s see your listing and pictures associated with the ad for sale and perhaps we can all lend better advice.

Tell him to pound sand and block him. Just me but I’m old and grouchy.

IIRC, the buyer is not required to sign a bill of sale. If the document has the buyer identified, that is what is important.

Is it better to have the buyer sign a bill of sale, sure.

If the BOS says sold in "As-is" condition, tell him you bought it. Caveat emptor Proper due diligence on the buyers part is lacking if they complain now.

Honestly, this seems to be a common practice anymore, buy the car, it shows up and complain about what was purchased.

True, I would do this for piece of mind.

IF you decide to refund his money, I'd want to have the car back home and YOU pick it apart before I released a nickel. Just my opinion.

This is great advice.! Then your lawyer can tell him to pound sand. Or you can tell him you're coming to get the car and will give his money back. I wish you good luck. Some people are just a-holes.

doesn't matter if it is a classic or newer car, people always try to get money back later.
I have sold 3 used cars and every single time the person called me back after owning it a week wanting something, money back, or me to fix something that just broke.

I would do nothing. If he bought it "As-Is" and sight unseen...his risk. Sounds like a guy looking to flip the car for a greater profit and hoping you will cave and "refund" some of the money he paid you. Move on with your life.

Unless you misrepresented something, it's on him. Most likely he has a history of doing the same thing to other sellers too.

A “real” Hemi car?? I can’t even imagine what a pita that would be.

JUST IGNORE HIM... HE HAS NO REPERCUSSIONS... RELAX AND MOVE ON

If the buyer did not do his due diligence as you say, there is no way you have any responsibility in that. As has been said many times here, as long as you were not deceptive..........f*ck him. These are 50+ year old vehicles. The only way any kind of warranty would be in place is if it were specified.

I would not continue to communicate with the buyer on anything related to his buyer's remorse. It may be premature to lawyer up mostly due to the costs. The ball is in his court. There is not much you can do now to change the course of events. Unless you feel the need to buy him off.

Pretty sure all used cars sales are "as is" in the eyes of the law unless specifically stated otherwise or unless there was misrepresentation of the car on the seller's part. . That said, I always make the buyer sign a bill of sale that states the car is sold "as is, where is".

Assuming the OP was honest in his sales tactics, he should walk away from this guy. Done deal.

I'll assume there's no valid reason for the buyer to be disappointed in the car or purchase price.
But try Googling his name to see if any other post-purchase or legal shenanigans come up.

I used to know a guy in Calif who would refuse to sell a car to an attorney.
Only time I've ever had someone NOT thank me for selling them my car was a Harley Sportster, around 1992.
It had a small oil leak, which I'd pointed out as proof that it was an HD.
He called to whine about it & threaten a lawsuit; I reviewed his inspection & our discussion, and never heard from him again.

Listen to this chit.
Says the car needs a tune up. Needs plug wires and spark plugs. Says one headliner bow is upside down and now bumper has rust and there's paint bubble in the trunk.
Says to call him in 15 minutes or he's going to come after me with a lawyer. Never saw any problems with any of this. Headliner bow seemed to have turned upside down when I drove it to the drop off point on Saturday. Is this guy crazy?

Bill of sale was taken from the car and he never signed it.
I told him I wanted it signed and then would give him title.
Title was signed over but car was delivered and never got the bill of sale signed. He didn't do it my way a d rushed the sale.
I was rushed out of the spot where I hand delivered the car.

I believe if I give him a few thousand. It will never stop with this guy. I felt he was eccentric talking to him. But he wired me money immediately after I answered all his questions and sent him dozens of photos of the car.

I had big issues with a '66 Mercury Comet Caliente I sold.

Not because the car was misrepresented but because the guys wife bought it for him for a Christmas present and then realized they really didn't have the means to keep it.

Two months later they are asking me if I had any leads from when I owned it that they could sell it for them. Told them I had no one with any interest in it. Then it got nasty where they accused me of charging them too much for it (despite it being in line with the Hagerty valuation guide). THEN they had issues with the title because she had had a lien against it and told me the state told her the title was no good now and I needed to fix it! Like all of this was somehow my fault.

I told her the sale was final as far as I was concerned and didn't want any further contact.

Taught me a valuable lesson as I jumped through multiple hoops for these people including sacrificing Christmas out of town to deliver the car for them.

I would just stop it all now and tell the buyer the transaction has been completed. End it right there. Id not let the guy convince me something was wrong knowing it wasnt.

No one knows the buyers motivation for buying your car, could of had the big flip in mind, who knows. But if you know you were honest in your side of the sale end it now.

The transfer of funds sealed the deal. There are many stages of a sale with title transfer only being a part of it.

Someone brought up spending a couple hundred for a hour of your attorneys time, thats a good option, not for me, maybe for you. But Id stop any communication other then the deal is done.

Get your money out of that account the funds were transferred to ASAP. If possible move it to another bank.

I'm guessing this was an over $75K transaction for an original hemi car. With the lawyer threat, his fast paced actions to avoid signing bill of sale, the eccentric vibe you got, buying it sight unseen... you probably should see a lawyer ASAP. This is starting to smell scam-ish.

And see my commentary further down

I'd look at the big picture. The combination of chit is causing the prob:

"Says the car needs a tune up. Needs plug wires and spark plugs. Says one headliner bow is upside down and now bumper has rust and there's paint bubble in the trunk.
Says to call him in 15 minutes or he's going to come after me with a lawyer. Never saw any problems with any of this. Headliner bow seemed to have turned upside down when I drove it to the drop off point on Saturday. Is this guy crazy?"

You know the headliner bow issue.
How it ran is subjective. Was it recently tuned correctly?
Bumper rust Is it 50 years old, rust on the back side?
Paint Bubble. Was it there?

Those things are really not that big of deal, BUT, some might see them as red flags.
Did you take lots of pics? For his and your record? When turning a vehicle over to a transport co always take pics everywhere and have your documents of recent work.
If things erode I'd at least find someone close by to eyeball and gauge his claims.

imho I'd think about dealing with the headliner and in return you get a signed release on everything else. Hope he does not fight. Guys buying top shelf cars have the budget to make little things become big pita.

I would NEVER buy a big dollar car without personally looking at it IN-PERSON! This story is incredible, but there are people out there like him.

I have come across a few people like this over the years. Back in the 80's when I owned a company that supplied rust-free parts from the SW US, I remember we shipped a fender to a guy - it was a nice part & not rusted through anywhere. The guy calls us after receiving the part all worked-up: "THIS IS A USED PART!!!!!!!!" and: "YOU GUYS PROBABLY BOUGHT THIS FROM A JUNKYARD! I'LL BET YOU PAID LESS THAN $50.00 FOR IT!" I told the guy "actually - I think we got that fender for free."

So right after the guy uttered "this fender is USED!" - I asked him where in our ad or where in any communication we led him to believe everything we sold was NOS? This guy was just a babe in the woods - he had no business being involved with the old car hobby. There ARE people this naive out there! YOUR car buyer is either one of these, or he's trying to pull a scam. Like someone suggested in the thread here - move this $$ to another bank ASAP & give your attorney a heads-up on what is going on. Follow your attorney's advice. Obviously, you'll have some legal expenses but hopefully not more than a few hours.

He is probably a flipper looking to add another 10% by having you refund some of his money.

The buyer bought your car sight unseen...a Hemi car no less! To me, he is an idiot!!! The last car I bought...I traveled about 7-8 hours from my house to PERSONALLY check it out. Seller first sent me alot of photos, and a video of the car, and many phone/text conversations, then I went to look at it IN PERSON. Liked what I saw, bought the car, got ALL the paperwork and title signed over to me...then had the car picked up by transport truck a week later....simple. Like others have said, either this guy is really stupid, or a scam artist...transfer your money from the sale to another financial institution ASAP, and talk with an attorney to cover yourself...good luck!

There is an old saying in the car business( probably not popular with many, but in 32 years I have found it to have definite merit) and that is….Buyers are liars.

You unfortunately have sold to "SCROTE M _____________" (fill in the last name)
I had a customer several years back we Nick named SCROTE M SORENSEN.

I wish i had the time to write all the details out but will try to summarize.
1st. there was a dash knob missing. I said Ok send me a pic of the panel (Vintage air) and I'll order a replacement.
2nd 2weeks later, A rattle when it IDLES. OK send me the pic, I'll get the knob, install it and fix the rattle.
3rd. 2 more weeks, There's scratches on the ignition switch cover, was this a used part? NO
4th 2 more weeks, I suspect all of the work you did you used parts. i want the make model and VIN # of the cars you took the parts from.
This went on for over 6 months with many offers by myself to address the IMAGINARY issues. After 6 months i told him i was done and rescinded all previous offers

3 or 4 months later I was served with a notice i was being sued.
get an attorney involved XXX $
In spite of the fact that everything was done in writing it had no bearing on the current situation. My attorney advised to settle if possible as the court and his fees would likely exceed the amount involved.
After several more months and more lawyer fees A settlement was finally agreed to. Total cost about 5K on a 9k invoice Fortunately the lawyer was a friend.

IMO: You have made a transaction with SCROTE
your choices at this point
1. Try to reach an agreeable cash settlement.
2. OFFER buy the car back offering to split the transportation costs
3. Contact an attorney
I did not read this entire post but if you have anything that states the vehicle was being sold AS-IS it would be very beneficial. IF not see 1, 2 or 3 as I do not think this guy is going away SORRY

BTW: he pulled the same cr-p on his attorney when it came time to pay the bill. He claimed he didn't get the representation he was being billed for. In my case it was he didn't get the QUALITY he paid for

I hear from car friends and acquaintances being offered over market for collector cars at a Cruise-In or even at a stoplight.

These are tactics to "open the conversation" of selling a car that is not for sale. Typically they negotiate backwards after the car owner opened the idea of selling and can look at the car up close.

I think this guy is trying to do something similar. Once he got his deposit in, he totally changed attitudes and ramped up the pressure to close the deal. He is just choosing to work his way backwards AFTER he paid and took possession.

DITTO THAT! dabee im pretty sure you and me are cut from the same cloth, you post exactly what im thinking but usually beat me to it.

Recently I've been talking to people about the high prices of cars. The higher the car cost the worst it is to deal with people. The last two cars I've bought were only seen on websites not in person and I didn't have any issues with the cars. However these weren't hemi cars and I talked to the sellers on the phone for a couple of hours. Sometimes we are to eager to make a sale and should say no you cannot buy it unless you come and see the car.

That's a shame. Cause it's just mean more high end cars going to auctions and pumped up selling prices.

That in turn has an effect on the pricing on lower segment cars

Two words, POUND SAND! Bought sight unseen, paid you what you agreed upon, he has zero repercussions period!

He had a mutual acquaintance come look at the car. Once at my house and then when I delivered it to his place for delivery. I'm just pizzed that he rushed me off his property because he was going out with his wife for dinner and I wasn't able to get the bill of sale scanned and signed as agreed. The car was not supposed to be released until the bill of sale was signed and in my hand.

In looking at some of the used car sales most everything pertains to an actual dealer. There was one statement that stood out on private sales is that as long as the seller acted in good faith you shouldn’t have a problem. Of course if the buyer pursues it in court then no telling the outcome. Sounds like you’ve done your part in acting in good faith.

LMFAO...

There are plenty of old sayings about used car salespeople...

Mike.

Unfortunately this is 100% on you. You needed to hold him accountable for your own benefit, dinner be damned. Hopefully this is a lesson to everyone, don't get excited cause you see some greenbacks, get your docs in order is priority.

Car was presented accurately. A flipped headliner bow isn't anything big. Bumpers were not rusted and there was no paint bubbles in trunk.

New sparkplug were installed with 0 miles on them. Took the car to the delivery place and it ran flawlessly. He says it needs a tune-up when there's electronic ignition. Sparkplug wires have 30 miles on them. The guys a richardhead.

As stated previously, guy sounds like a flipper looking to increase his profit margin.

I agree to talk to a lawyer.

I would cut it to the chase and have the lawyer send a cease and desist letter threatening a lawsuit for harassment.

That should put it to an end but again take the lawyers advice. Most first meetings with a lawyer are free but the letter and all at going rates it should be $500 or less.

I wonder how all the Vintage car dealers and auctions avoid all these hassles from remorseful or scheming buyers?
Many of the cars they sell actually do have serious issues and buyers don't seem to have much recourse after they buy and find out the problems.
Let alone just some nitpicky stuff like an alleged headliner bow or engine needs fine tuning.

The engine was running perfectly. 30 mile journey and not one hiccup.
Bumpersneedwd polishing. No rust.
The buyer rushed me to get the car. I told him in text that he needed to sign the bill of sake 1st before releasing the var.
The mutual acquaintance said he was going to do it at his house once the car got there.
He rushed me out and never scanned the bill of sale as promised.

I think the bum’s rush was part of the plan and the “acquaintance” was used as a decoy.

I’m sorry to hear about your difficulties.

This reply wound Up in the unmoderated forum ? So I am reposting it here to make sure you see it. I have walked this road a few times with customers in the last 25 years and it is not pleasant. I would strongly encourage that you re-read my previous comment(s) as well.




THE ABOVE IS ADVICE YOU SHOULD HEED

All of the ignore, pound sand, you're in the clear comments are BUlls-T when it come's to our legal system. DAMHIK
PLEASE TAKE THE ADVICE ABOVE from Some Car Guy!!!
Despite ALL the documentation, recordings of conversations, letters my lawyer told me it may all count for ZERO depending on how the Judge feels that day. An example he used was
"Imagine the Judge just picked up his Mercedes from repairs at the dealer and thinks he got screwed. How do you think he might rule?"
"He then asked How many times have you seen a bad call by a referee that stood in spite of the video playback?"
"Welcome to our legal system" he then said

Talking to a lawyer right now before this goes any further is the best money you will have spent in a long time. Doing so will do one of two things,
1. Quiet him down (doubtful)
2. Escalate it
You have my sympathy as dealing with this type of individual is HELL

twocents beer

1. They have their butts covered 16 ways to to Sunday in the Contract
2: The have a lawyer(s) on retainer

Selling real estate I've used this clause:

At Closing, Buyer shall receive a repair credit against the Purchase Price in an amount equal to $X for repairs and replacements at the Property. Said repair credit is the total agreed amount between Buyer and Seller as offset the repair work found during Buyers completing due diligence inspections of the property. Seller nor Buyer shall have any obligation to pay the other party due to any increase or decrease of the actual cost of the repair work compared with the credit given and said credit shall not be subject to adjustment.

As it seems it may be difficult for you to communicate with the buyer about what you said "It was older restoration but still looked great."
All the writing on this site does nothing to resolve. Before the deal completely sours and with the potential to spend a lot to resolve think about a fairly easy fix.
The real estate deal requires inspections. The sale from a far requires trust and facts (there's that word). The problem is based in interpretation of condition and the private discussions we are not privy.
It's tough to communicate about these deals. I'd recommend the easy road of communicating and getting his list and what he wants. Then you develop your counter and get him to accept.
Or, don't and see what happens.

Especially when it's presumably a higher priced purchase like this I wouldn't have let him rush me out of there without signing anything you wanted. It doesn't take that long to do.

It sounds like he had something planned from the beginning or huge buyers remorse. I'd be tempted to turn around and offer him something to buy the car back minus something to cover the time and expenses this costed you but i'd be worried about what's happened to the car in the meantime.

First thing I thought. Not coming himself in person and the whole "rush rush" thing seems fishy for such a rare, valuable car. How does somebody "forget" to sign the bill of sale? That's like the most important thing next to handing over the cash...

Sadly, we live in a world today full of people who are looking to blame someone else. If he did not do a personal inspection for himself but was given the opportunity for a friend to inspect the car in person well, he should rely on who he sent to inspect it. Otherwise, he should have sent someone else to look. I see more and more folks who do not want to do the leg work needed to make a smooth transaction. No way I would buy any car without a personal inspection or the inspection of a qualified person. Even when cars are sold with a decent description, in some cases the buyer and seller will have a different idea in their minds about condition. A person needs to satisfy themselves before any money changes hands. If they do not, you're asking for trouble IMO. For sure once a car is shipped and paid for all of these things need to be taken care of, unless grossly misrepresented. That said the inspection by his person of choice should have taken care of his questions.
Matt

Stop worrying about the bill of sale signature issue... it's a non starter and irrelevant. You have other factors that support the transaction.

I'd tell him that the car is his and if he has any issues with the vehicle, take it up with his person that "inspected" the car and approved condition prior to the wire transfer. Transaction is complete and consistent with used vehicle sales, sold in "as is" condition. Enjoy the car.

I would like to see pictures of the car in question? Was this a high dollar sale?

Agreed, bill of sale doesn't mean anything in Texas.

How is this guy going to title this car without a bill of sale.

Not all states require one.

Here in TN you put the purchase price on the back of the title and that is all that is needed. In LA where I used to live, they required a notarized bill of sale and the title.

Each state is different.

In my case the list of IMAGINARY problems and his demands kept changing. Keep in mind this went on for 6 MONTHS with no opportunity by him to allow me to address ANY of the IMAGINARY issues. I tried everything humanly possible and he just kept adding things. He finally said he wanted all money refunded .After telling him I was done, I was served several weeks later. Based on what I have read so far this is likely Scrote's close relative

If you were selling the car as a private individual(I assume) it is all on him. I have bought 3 "hotrods" sight unseen. Talked to the owners quite a bit also. They are used cars so you get what you get for not getting on a plane and doing your own due diligence. Cyclone, was almost exactly as described. Only thing he forgot to tell me was only 1 of the drum brakes worked which made the drive from the dropoff spot fun as heck. Superbee was a roller so yeah, Got what I paid for. Barracuda looked nicer than it was. Started working on it and was going to just put a V8 kframe in, drop a 360 in and drive it and have fun. That was the plan until I crawled under the rear and realized the frame over the diff was completely rusted out. Never called any of the sellers back. You buy a car that is 30-50 years old, well, it isn't like it was just on the show room floor. Guy is and idgit who is trying to scam you. Yes Hemis aren't cheap but he knew the risks. Not like the car showed up with 318 in it when you showed a Hemi in the pictures I hope.

only way i have sold cars is if the owner... or his rep eyeballed them- would not sell sight unseen

in the bill of sale it states sold 'as is, as seen' .....

Just out of curiosity,
Do you have ANYTHING in writing, an email, the original ad etc. that states the car is being sold AS -IS?

I will mention the following for others: I've learned in the last 25 years of being in business that People who are in a rush to get something done almost always turn out to be A PROBLEM.
After having experienced this 5 or so times, I noted it was a common trait these people seem to have
After noting this, It became a BRIGHT RED FLAG that I will not ignore, and send them elsewhere.

This comes too late for this deal, but I have learned through selling hundreds and hundreds of used cars, trucks, vans, and motorcycles including classics that the deal is going to go down MY WAY. Not their way. That doesn't mean that I won't make some concessions to them to get the deal. But overall, the deal will be done my way and all documents that I have will be executed to my satisfaction. And one document in particular that the buyer has to sign and is all by itself with no fine print is AS-IS NO WARRANTY. A full page that has only that and the vehicle's description on it.

Now recently, Illinois has stepped in and forced a warranty on some used vehicles. That played a role in our deciding to go exclusively to 'rebuilts'. They are exempt from the State's mandate.

There is not much the OP can do at this point except wait for the buyer's next move. As I said before, I certainly would cease all communication with the buyer immediately. Whether the time is right for an attorney is a matter of opinion. It's only money.

If selling a car privately, would you recommend something like this (distorted on purpose)?:

It would be perfect if printed on very dark shadowy grey paper.

Probably nothing wrong with that agreement. It uses a lot more verbiage than we do, but it gets to the point.

Bummer for your situation. First thing is I would do is a google search in his state and see if he has sued others for similar problems.
Have an attorney send a letter to stop harassing you.
Change accounts, just in case.
Remind him he bought it after it was inspected twice already and your done with it. Anything that he finds or damaged while he uses it is on him. Also, your not responsible for damage after it leaves your possession from improper transport or driver repellence.
I would not even offer to take the car back. He could have damaged it or swapped out some valuable parts with cheap ones.

Personally I would send a pic of myself in a Las Vegas club surrounded by pretty girls, my crew, lots of bottles of house booze and a couple black bags on the table with a caption saying ‘I spent it all buddy. Go pound sand or get buried in it).

Sad to say but I have literally rebuilt every mechanical system, suspension, steering, etc and 1/2 the electrical on the 69 Cyclone. That said, it is still a "USED" car. I was a refusnik for cell phones until 2 years ago. Why? Because despite a huge effort and good money going into the car I knew eventually I was going to need to call for a tow. In fact second time out I exploded the torque convertor and trashed the trans. There I sat in a parking lot that I was able to push the car into. Technically a brand new/old car with 15 miles on the engine. Only person I wished I had gone after were the manufacturers of "BOSS HOG" convertors. Had I known my local trans shop makes billet units. Oh, if only. Think everyone gets my point. Even with a transplanted new engine, you are still going to have issues. Nature of the beast. If you don't believe it, find a new hobby.

I have text messages that you must sign the bill of sale.
He said he would and scan it and send it back. I said I want to fax it to you now and both him and the guy who looked at rhe car stated they don't own a fax machine.

I'm assuming he didn't scan it and send it back. STOP

OK, then send a PDF file. He could have printed it, signed it, scanned it back into a PDF it or take a picture, and return it via email.

As previously mentioned It doesn't sound like this is his first rodeo

Don't sign it without him signing it first. I don't know what that matters...maybe not at all, but if he wants to play head games, play 'em...
It sounds to me like maybe now he needs you...

maybe I'm confused (easily done )

On the Bill of sale,
Is he now requesting a bill of sale OR is your statement above referring to BEFORE the car left your possession.

If the request is current, type up a bill of sale listing the date of sale, amount received, make, model, VIN #
State that the vehicle is / was (is preferred) sold AS-IS with no warranties of any kind implied or claims on condition as it was inspected by his _____________
PDF the file and email. He can sign it, HAVE IT NOTARIZED and overnite or PDF it back. if all looks good, sign it a send it back

You need to step back from this and get focused on what you can control. Worrying about what texts you have about an unsigned bill of sale isn’t going to get this to go away. Sure, save those, but as tjp said, a court may laugh at that as anything to be concerned with.

Cease communications until you speak to an attorney, and focus on finding one with experience with such a mess. Or wait until his sends a letter and then get one. These are things you can control. If you want to ask him what it will take to “make this right” to get you peace on the matter, that’s another thing you can control. Personally I would see if he moves on before doing that one.

History of the future- if he’s a game player with means or an accomplice attorney(himself, brother, friend) he can shake you down. A lawsuit will cost at least 15k. For you. He may not face as much if he has the right setup. The game will be chicken to see who will shell out the opening salvo in court, or see if the other guy coughs up 5k to make it go away. He’ll drum up a 30k invoice for a paint job, parts missing, engine work, etc. so you will have to choose to fight on principle or pay a lesser amount to get away from him. Will a judge or jury have knowledgeable car people that will see the issues with understanding, or will they see pictures taken to accent a flaky spot or rust on the back of a bumper and see it as you sold him a lemon?

His text was saying only rusty bumpers, needs tune up and new spark ug wires and sparkplug and one flipped headliner bow. The car was thoroughly inspected twice. Once at my house and then at the drop-off location.
He complained also, I left the car with little gasoline.
Bumpers weren't rusty and also sparkplug wires were new with 30 miles on them . Same with sparkplug
As stated before, the car ran unbelievably strong and no issues. Idles perfectly.

Any chance fuel sloshing around on trip and ethanol laced fuel on fuel system components could have changed anything?
This is part of the subjective stuff than can be cleared up on the suggested "fact finding" inquiry.
I wouldn't open a can of worms, nor be the catalyst that gets this guy coming at you. Just a simple q "what's your idea to fix".
Bottom line is that if he does not "go away" the list of "stuff" might become unfathomable.

This car was rebuilt correctly. Built to OE Gold standards.
The car is stunning front to back. Highly detailed.
Car ran perfectly for 30 miles. Dropped it off then 20 minutes later started right up and moved in to his garage. Idled perfectly.
I've owned rhis car for close to 20 years. Always ran great and started right up.
There is no way this car needed a tune up.
Brought it to a bunch of car cruises throughout the years.
This guy was just a royal PITA containing about everything.
The deal went smooth up until I got all the funds then all of a sudden a million questions over and over.
I knew then and there, it was phucked.

This - stop all communication until he makes the next move, which I doubt he even does as it sounds like he is hoping you just send him money. I doubt he gets an attorney involved and likely goes away but he wont until you stop communicating with him.

Excellent advice.

After he tried to extort money from me and started handing me this bull chit about fouled sparkplug and bad sparkplug wires and needing a tuneup. BTW it had a Pertronix setup under the distributor cap. I knew this guy was going to be trouble and keep complaining so I blocked him.
He sent a few more texts and tried calling 3 more times. Hopefully he just goes away.

EDITED

I'll bet he doesn't There is some experienced advice in this post that you should be listening to. Some Car Guy's input is one, mine is another SRT's is another yet, and maybe a few more. I would suggest being proactive (step 1 Attorney) rather than burying your head in the sand HOPING he'll go away.(Not trying to be offensive just stating facts). Being Reactive is usually not a good idea for several reasons
The things he's complaining about would be less that 2k to fix at the most. A person that spent 100K (guessing) on a car is not going to be acting this way. I have dealt with many customers over the last 25 years that have been FRIED on purchases. in almost all cases the repairs are made or the cars have gone to auction. Only ONE went back to the seller demanding his $$ back on a blatant fraud. The did not know who he was dealing with
A close relative of a very wealthy well known individual with influential AND world wide contacts, OOPPS. BTW this same individual has over 125 cars in his collection. He had been burned before and this was the only time he went back to the seller. The seller told him to take a hike and soon after received a call for the Tennessee State Attorney generals office encouraging him to buy the car back ASAP before things got ugly LMAO. The seller PROMPTLY sent a check overnight covering ALL the buyer's expenses including my fees, auction, and transportation costs. Don't know where the car wound up but I did look for it for several years.
the seller was also banned from the well known auction company as he had sold 4 or 5 other fraudulent cars at the same auction
I'm done trying to help at this point
FYI: there was an attorney that used to advertise in Hemmings that specialized in classic car transactions. Don't know if he is still advertising in there or not
Good luck and do keep us posted

Only thing to add is that buyer is pizzed. Not about 2k in work, but his perceived treatment of what seems minor as to what we are hearing. He feels there has been misrepresentation. Will it get worse the more he's ignored? Battle of wits vs battle of principals? We can't judge, have only given thoughts.

He had someone of his choosing look at the vehicle, IIRC. Then burden isn't on the OP, imo.

Keep in mind the bow" flipped" or whatever as seller was taking it to delivery. Ran "perfectly" on trip to drop off.
I have no other basis for belief conditions changed post agent inspection (was that his appointed task?).
The bow itself could have been disclosed prior to transit, whild the perceived tune issues need to be figured out.
Each item can be further looked into, not to discredit either seller or buyer, simply to figure it out.
Heck price for what the seller is asking, negotiate a 50-50 split and be done with it.
Or not, and lose sleep and potential to spend lots of $ on a battle of wits and bowed backs.
p.s. we are basing our opinions based on one perspective and source of info.
Not judging anyone it's important to see it from both sides.

Very well said and correct, IF you are dealing with a normal person which it does not sound like he is IF he is dealing with a SCROTE, there is no reasoning with them. Even asking them what they want / or will settle for only encourages them as they now:
1. Feel they are justified
2. Now have potential proof that you're admitting to their claims
3. Believe you knowingly misrepresented the transaction
4. Believe they now have the upper hand
5 .Will scrutinize every miniscule detail
6. In doing so, will find more problems and raise their demands.
7. Will follow though with an attorney as they now believe they have enough to win a judgment or get you to deposition where they will squeeze for even more $$ to settle.
8. At this point the OP has lost lots of sleep and $ on a battle that could not be reasonably resolved no matter what was offered

The market has been super hot lately, hopefully it will remain that way despite the plunging stock market and general malaise our economy is falling into.
If the buyer is playing some game trying to extort money out of you, why not call his bluff. Tell him you will take the car back, and refund his money. Is he far away? Might have to pick it up, pay for shipping or split shipping, but get the car back. Tell him you have others interested in the car, you want a good home for it and he isn't happy so it would be best to sell it to someone who is really excited about owning it.
Unless he paid some outrageous price to you, you can almost certainly get the same selling price from another buyer.
Don't offer to refund any % of the sales price to cover problems he found real or imagined, just offer to take it back refunding the full selling price, with the stipulation it has to be in the same condition it was when you relinquished possession to him.

I feel exactly the same and you are 100% correct.
This guy has more money than brains.
I'm just hoping this guy goes away. It's going to cost him more in lawyer fees that it's worth.
A few small repairs and this car is magnificent.

Yes, Buyer.

We're participating in exchanging ideas based on what you've presented.
"older restoration" to "magnificent" is where the issue lays.
I think you have received a range of answers to what you have presented.
I believe you plan to ignore him and see what happens.
It seems the buyer feels some items were misrepresented, or changed after it was described/or seen.
Was his "agent" a knowledgeable inspector, or lizzard-skin deliverer?
I do believe that guy is the sort that the little fixes should have been disclosed. If something changed, a reasonable approach by both parties can get it resolved.
There is some items that could be clarified for those un-involved. (But I have no interest in hearing more details).
It will be interesting to hear of anything that transpires as the days wear on.

Id almost be inlcined to go over there to see the guy and the car. If plugs and wires will shut him up change them and at the very least it's shown you've tried to make him happy. If the headliner bow flipped after his guy inspected it maybe find out how much it would cost to deal with that for him. If the bumper has issues tough s*!t. He can blame the guy who inspected it for him.
If this guy is a hot head ignoring him might make him start talking to an attorney.

I would like to see a picture of this flipped headliner bow. Some things to this story dont add up. What year and model car is this. Pictures would help. Poster should post some pre sale pictures of this Gold class restoration.

You're bolder than I as I tip-toed around the buyers story.
I'm not challenging the op position at all. The subjective part is we hear one perspective. We are not privy to all sorts of details. With that it is difficult to lay out a path to resolution.
The middle road typically is the less messy one regardless of the situation.

It is quite simple, to me.

The buyer had an inspector of his choice look at it. The buyer bought it without any complaint. Now the buyer is wanting a refund of some sort. The time for negotiating the price was before cash was exchanged.

F-off would be my response.

His agent owns over 35 high end mopars and pontiac gross.
I told him about the headliner prior to him picking up the car for transport.
As far as an older restoration, when a car is restored correctly, and stored in a climate controlled environment, the car looked almost exactly as when it was restored.
The guy who inspected thought the car was absolutely beautiful.
He called the guy twice and said the car was super clean. The buyer rushed the sale and I was rushed off the property. I wasn't even able to get the bill of sale scanned and returned.

I understood what you wrote and don't doubt any of what you are saying.
Update later will be nice.

Sammy,

Have you made an appointment with your lawyer/attorney yet?

I'm not the only one who recommended this.

Mike.

I spoke to my lawyer last night. I explained the situation and he said let's wait and see if this guy escalates the situation. No need to jump the gun but we are now prepared.

keep us posted

If he has more money than brains as you say when he takes it to court he'll go after you for the repairs AND his lawyer fees ...

He has to get it into court first. He sent his agent, his agent said it was good, he owns it, ALL of it. Can't claim misrepresentation because his agent confirmed the condition. His only cause for action evaporates right there.

Kevin

Any word on the guy yet?

Any updates on this ? just curious

Just wanted to mention that if the buyer (plaintiff) is not in the same state, county, or even the same municipality, it makes it much more of a hassle for him to chase the seller (defendant). At least that's how it has been for me in both New Jersey & New York. It almost seems to me that for the amount of work the buyer claims the car needs, he won't bother following through. It will require researching the legal name, address, company, Inc., LLC, etc., then filing the papers to sue. You can't even go into a courthouse these days with the current Covid regulations & need to make an appointment.

I'm not saying the seller won't do it, but it'll be a big pain in the neck for him.

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Yeah, the op needs to give an update.

maybe his legal rep said mum is the word...

Good advice.

pretty simple: block his number.

Ta da!

give a description of car sold... doesnt do you any good not to reveal the car SOLD... makes yah wonder... take the cash and heck with it!..

I wouldn’t. You start giving him things that implies warranty.
I would simply say, you bought, you get both halves if it breaks in half.
Leave me alone or deal with my lawyer if it comes to that.
Everyone who sells stuff has “ that” customer. The other 99% are fine. Don’t give them oxygen to bug you

With the money I suspect has been exchanged, you are dealing with a different psychology. He likely tries to beat down the money on everything he does. Home Remodeling , going to nit pick and try to get a discount of the amount two MEN agreed on.

It’s all a game to them. I would say 95% of us on this board would have visited the car before and picked it up ourselves, because that is part of the enjoyment of our cars.

Now, if you honestly thought it had an important aspect, such as it wasn’t numbers matching after all, but it was priced as such, then maybe.

Block him, and he should get the message. You may even get a letter from an attorney. Just games they play. Keep in mind, he could be psychopath (tons of them in the upper money strata), so just don’t feed his pathology.

Since you are asking input from the board, as one suggested, post the ad to give more guidance.