Re: Engine Masters 440-6 vs 426 Hemi
[Re: 3hundred]
#3014914
02/13/22 09:12 AM
02/13/22 09:12 AM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,497 nowhere
Sniper
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thats the first thing i thought, how do you have the same cam profile for a 440 and a hemi, if it were a good cam for the hemi it would have not been for the 440, i think they said the compression was about a half point lower for the hemi which did not help it, they did not prove anything that we all did not already know, but it sure was entertaining.
the Street Hemi girnd cam DC used to sell seemed to work pretty good in my 413. are you talking about the Mopar Purple Shaft 284 street Hemi grind cam in your 413? If so you may want to try another better grind, I hated those cams in wedges Ditto, had one in the mid '70's, no idle vacuum. IIRC, it was discontinued and replaced with a different "hemi grind" because it hurt the low end so badly and the top end was hardly improved over the stock cam. That was back in 88 I ran that cam. The power brakes worked just fine as did all the HVAC controls, those are vacuum operated. It worked just fine for me, but I wasn't racing it. Just a daily driver. It was a stick car with 4.10 gears so that probably helped. Didn't seem to have an issue lighting up the N50-15 baloneys I was running either so I'd say the low end was just fine.
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Re: Engine Masters 440-6 vs 426 Hemi
[Re: Hemi_Joel]
#3014919
02/13/22 09:20 AM
02/13/22 09:20 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,294 Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
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I’ll have to pull my road test reprint book. It had a 68 GTX shootout with a hemi and a. 440. Stock for stock. I do recall they tried the hemi with a 4.30 gear as it wanted more.
These guys have a constraint of available parts to throw together a show. Can’t overlook that.
I want my fair share
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Re: Engine Masters 440-6 vs 426 Hemi
[Re: Sniper]
#3014967
02/13/22 11:19 AM
02/13/22 11:19 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,806 Moved to N.E. Tennessee
GomangoCuda
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Several people here seem to have confused the old "Hemi Grind" cam with the 284- 484 purple cam. Not even close to the same cam.
Last edited by GomangoCuda; 02/13/22 11:22 AM.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
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Re: Engine Masters 440-6 vs 426 Hemi
[Re: GomangoCuda]
#3014973
02/13/22 11:42 AM
02/13/22 11:42 AM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,497 nowhere
Sniper
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Several people here seem to have confused the old "Hemi Grind" cam with the 284- 484 purple cam. Not even close to the same cam. That sounds like the P4120235 cam, which I did not have.
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Re: Engine Masters 440-6 vs 426 Hemi
[Re: dvw]
#3015481
02/14/22 07:35 PM
02/14/22 07:35 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,333 Prospect, PA
BSB67
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The closest example you are going to find are the Pure Stock drags. There they'll be blue printed with a stock lift cam and 2 1/2" exhaust. Doug
These are results from Mid Michigan Motorplex 2021. The quickest 9 winners.
Bob Karakashian; 1970 Plymouth ’Cuda; 426ci; 4.10; 11.816 sec @ 117.30 mph
Jeff Morgan; 1969 Chevrolet Camaro; 427ci; 4.10; 11.905 sec @ 118.65 mph
Menzo Dodge; 1972 Buick GS 455; 455ci; 3.90; 12.256 sec @ 111.31 mph
Tom Cannon; 1971 Dodge Super Bee; 426ci; 4.30; 12.323 sec @ 114.86 mph
Mike Marple; 1969 Plymouth Road Runner; 440ci; 4.10; 12.363 sec @ 113.72 mph
Jason Dalrymple; 1971 Plymouth ’Cuda; 440ci; 4.10; 12.456 sec @ 110.70 mph
Eddie George; 1970 Dodge Challenger; 426ci; 4.10; 12.511 sec @ 115.22 mph
Charlie Lombardi; 1966 Chevrolet Chevelle; 396ci; 4.56; 12.517 sec @ 115.51 mph
Dan Kruger; 1969 Dodge Super Bee; 440ci; 4.10; 12.518 sec @ 109.28 mph I agree Doug. This is about as level of a playing field as you're gonna get especially for the relative results. Only if we had race weights to go with those trap speeds.
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Re: Engine Masters 440-6 vs 426 Hemi
[Re: BSB67]
#3015483
02/14/22 07:40 PM
02/14/22 07:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,521 Minnesota
Hemi_Joel
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There is almost no tech at that event, except for a P&G on some cars. Some are a lot more stock than others.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img]31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum RS23J71 RS27J77 RP23J71 RO23J71 WM21J8A I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do. "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"
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Re: Engine Masters 440-6 vs 426 Hemi
[Re: Hemi_Joel]
#3015569
02/15/22 12:20 AM
02/15/22 12:20 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,294 Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
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Found it. 68 GTX hemi vert vs. 68 GTX 440 hardtop with ac. Both 727s. They changed the gears and tires around after running them stock for stock. Car Life Feb of 68 issue
I know it’s not a six pack, but this is as stock for stock as we will reliably get a test.
I want my fair share
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Re: Engine Masters 440-6 vs 426 Hemi
[Re: SomeCarGuy]
#3015625
02/15/22 12:16 PM
02/15/22 12:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,025 S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
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Emasculated Race engine vs great street engine: Not really a shocker: Test will predictably favor the great street engine every time.
Race engine in it's first, original configuration as intended by Chrysler Engineering (A990, '64 Circle track versions, etc).....The street version was a band aid to satisfy sanctioning bodies.
What I see is: "We're just going to pretend the street version came out first and call that "the legendary". in spite of awareness of history, knowledge Chrysler never wanted to sell them for the street, at all, and so forth.
Two points of compression, crossram manifold, probably another 30 degrees of duration/big solid flat tappet stuff=All came first and were the original intent.... these things just might affect horsepower ever so slightly don't you think? That is "the legendary" package swept under the rug for this lil' show.....
There is so much that is improved on with modern parts selection, for both engine types.
No matter what, I say: Have fun and build whatever it is you want while you can... because the day will come when you can't.
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: Engine Masters 440-6 vs 426 Hemi
[Re: ZIPPY]
#3015635
02/15/22 12:42 PM
02/15/22 12:42 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,904 Pattison Texas
CSK
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I say that Dulcich ported the 906 heads on that 440
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: Engine Masters 440-6 vs 426 Hemi
[Re: B1Frank]
#3015648
02/15/22 01:20 PM
02/15/22 01:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,637 fredericksburg,va
cudaman1969
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I tried the six pac on my 64 440 race car, stock 74 engine with cam. Blocked the bleed sec hose and jetted up a little, ran no better than the 850 DP on the Torker. Now racing class the six pac is better than that AVS. My Plym had 3800 vert, 4.88 gears and 14-32 slicks so no problems there. I agree with Zippy, de-tuning the Hemi and pumping up the 440 is not real world. All about port velocity and volume, after 3500 the Hemi says “can we play thru”
Last edited by cudaman1969; 02/15/22 01:21 PM.
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Re: Engine Masters 440-6 vs 426 Hemi
[Re: ZIPPY]
#3015651
02/15/22 01:21 PM
02/15/22 01:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,521 Minnesota
Hemi_Joel
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Emasculated Race engine vs great street engine: Not really a shocker: Test will predictably favor the great street engine every time.
Race engine in it's first, original configuration as intended by Chrysler Engineering (A990, '64 Circle track versions, etc).....The street version was a band aid to satisfy sanctioning bodies.
What I see is: "We're just going to pretend the street version came out first and call that "the legendary". in spite of awareness of history, knowledge Chrysler never wanted to sell them for the street, at all, and so forth.
Two points of compression, crossram manifold, probably another 30 degrees of duration/big solid flat tappet stuff=All came first and were the original intent.... these things just might affect horsepower ever so slightly don't you think? That is "the legendary" package swept under the rug for this lil' show.....
There is so much that is improved on with modern parts selection, for both engine types.
No matter what, I say: Have fun and build whatever it is you want while you can... because the day will come when you can't.
. RiGHt oN ZipsTEreR! .
[img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img]31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum RS23J71 RS27J77 RP23J71 RO23J71 WM21J8A I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do. "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"
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Re: Engine Masters 440-6 vs 426 Hemi
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#3016035
02/16/22 03:17 PM
02/16/22 03:17 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,825 Holland MI Ottawa
2boltmain
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Engines with a hi velocity (smaller ports and inline valves) are easier to make great street usable power- the 440 and the Buick Olds and Pontiac 455s. The Hi volume head motors definitely need to tap into their hi flow high RPM capability afforded them by their BIG ports and valves- the Hemi being the king here with the BBC and 351 4V Cleveland down the list from the Hemi. To own a 426 hemi powered car that runs 12s 13s 14s is simply not even touching where a Hemi shines. But a Hemi car regardless of ET is cool.
Keep old mopars alive.
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