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Re: Engine Masters 440-6 vs 426 Hemi [Re: Ramman] #3014912
02/13/22 09:04 AM
02/13/22 09:04 AM
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Long Island, NY
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Re: Engine Masters 440-6 vs 426 Hemi [Re: 3hundred] #3014914
02/13/22 09:12 AM
02/13/22 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by 3hundred
Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
Originally Posted by Sniper
Originally Posted by SV_MOPARS

thats the first thing i thought, how do you have the same cam profile for a 440 and a hemi, if it were a good cam for the hemi it would have not been for the 440, i think they said the compression was about a half point lower for the hemi which did not help it, they did not prove anything that we all did not already know, but it sure was entertaining.


the Street Hemi girnd cam DC used to sell seemed to work pretty good in my 413.
are you talking about the Mopar Purple Shaft 284 street Hemi grind cam in your 413?
If so you may want to try another better grind, I hated those cams in wedges down tsk


Ditto, had one in the mid '70's, no idle vacuum. IIRC, it was discontinued and replaced with a different "hemi grind" because it hurt the low end so badly and the top end was hardly improved over the stock cam.


That was back in 88 I ran that cam. The power brakes worked just fine as did all the HVAC controls, those are vacuum operated. It worked just fine for me, but I wasn't racing it. Just a daily driver. It was a stick car with 4.10 gears so that probably helped.

Didn't seem to have an issue lighting up the N50-15 baloneys I was running either so I'd say the low end was just fine.

Re: Engine Masters 440-6 vs 426 Hemi [Re: Hemi_Joel] #3014919
02/13/22 09:20 AM
02/13/22 09:20 AM
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I’ll have to pull my road test reprint book. It had a 68 GTX shootout with a hemi and a. 440. Stock for stock. I do recall they tried the hemi with a 4.30 gear as it wanted more.

These guys have a constraint of available parts to throw together a show. Can’t overlook that.


I want my fair share
Re: Engine Masters 440-6 vs 426 Hemi [Re: Sniper] #3014967
02/13/22 11:19 AM
02/13/22 11:19 AM
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Several people here seem to have confused the old "Hemi Grind" cam with the 284- 484 purple cam. Not even close to the same cam.

Last edited by GomangoCuda; 02/13/22 11:22 AM.

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
Re: Engine Masters 440-6 vs 426 Hemi [Re: GomangoCuda] #3014973
02/13/22 11:42 AM
02/13/22 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by GomangoCuda
Several people here seem to have confused the old "Hemi Grind" cam with the 284- 484 purple cam. Not even close to the same cam.


That sounds like the P4120235 cam, which I did not have.

Re: Engine Masters 440-6 vs 426 Hemi [Re: Sniper] #3015259
02/14/22 09:08 AM
02/14/22 09:08 AM
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The closest example you are going to find are the Pure Stock drags. There they'll be blue printed with a stock lift cam and 2 1/2" exhaust.
Doug

These are results from Mid Michigan Motorplex 2021. The quickest 9 winners.

Bob Karakashian; 1970 Plymouth ’Cuda; 426ci; 4.10; 11.816 sec @ 117.30 mph

Jeff Morgan; 1969 Chevrolet Camaro; 427ci; 4.10; 11.905 sec @ 118.65 mph

Menzo Dodge; 1972 Buick GS 455; 455ci; 3.90; 12.256 sec @ 111.31 mph

Tom Cannon; 1971 Dodge Super Bee; 426ci; 4.30; 12.323 sec @ 114.86 mph

Mike Marple; 1969 Plymouth Road Runner; 440ci; 4.10; 12.363 sec @ 113.72 mph

Jason Dalrymple; 1971 Plymouth ’Cuda; 440ci; 4.10; 12.456 sec @ 110.70 mph

Eddie George; 1970 Dodge Challenger; 426ci; 4.10; 12.511 sec @ 115.22 mph

Charlie Lombardi; 1966 Chevrolet Chevelle; 396ci; 4.56; 12.517 sec @ 115.51 mph

Dan Kruger; 1969 Dodge Super Bee; 440ci; 4.10; 12.518 sec @ 109.28 mph

Re: Engine Masters 440-6 vs 426 Hemi [Re: dvw] #3015481
02/14/22 07:35 PM
02/14/22 07:35 PM
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Prospect, PA
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Originally Posted by dvw
The closest example you are going to find are the Pure Stock drags. There they'll be blue printed with a stock lift cam and 2 1/2" exhaust.
Doug

These are results from Mid Michigan Motorplex 2021. The quickest 9 winners.

Bob Karakashian; 1970 Plymouth ’Cuda; 426ci; 4.10; 11.816 sec @ 117.30 mph

Jeff Morgan; 1969 Chevrolet Camaro; 427ci; 4.10; 11.905 sec @ 118.65 mph

Menzo Dodge; 1972 Buick GS 455; 455ci; 3.90; 12.256 sec @ 111.31 mph

Tom Cannon; 1971 Dodge Super Bee; 426ci; 4.30; 12.323 sec @ 114.86 mph

Mike Marple; 1969 Plymouth Road Runner; 440ci; 4.10; 12.363 sec @ 113.72 mph

Jason Dalrymple; 1971 Plymouth ’Cuda; 440ci; 4.10; 12.456 sec @ 110.70 mph

Eddie George; 1970 Dodge Challenger; 426ci; 4.10; 12.511 sec @ 115.22 mph

Charlie Lombardi; 1966 Chevrolet Chevelle; 396ci; 4.56; 12.517 sec @ 115.51 mph

Dan Kruger; 1969 Dodge Super Bee; 440ci; 4.10; 12.518 sec @ 109.28 mph


I agree Doug. This is about as level of a playing field as you're gonna get especially for the relative results. Only if we had race weights to go with those trap speeds.

Re: Engine Masters 440-6 vs 426 Hemi [Re: BSB67] #3015483
02/14/22 07:40 PM
02/14/22 07:40 PM
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Minnesota
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There is almost no tech at that event, except for a P&G on some cars. Some are a lot more stock than others.


[img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img]
31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum
RS23J71
RS27J77
RP23J71
RO23J71
WM21J8A
I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do.
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"
Re: Engine Masters 440-6 vs 426 Hemi [Re: Hemi_Joel] #3015569
02/15/22 12:20 AM
02/15/22 12:20 AM
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Found it. 68 GTX hemi vert vs. 68 GTX 440 hardtop with ac. Both 727s. They changed the gears and tires around after running them stock for stock. Car Life Feb of 68 issue

I know it’s not a six pack, but this is as stock for stock as we will reliably get a test.

8897CE8D-C5B0-4E3B-92CC-978B8D76794A.jpeg031B78E3-B54F-4CCD-8478-B74862C10C99.jpeg65BD8904-0392-4C54-9E51-542F35C2B98A.jpeg

I want my fair share
Re: Engine Masters 440-6 vs 426 Hemi [Re: SomeCarGuy] #3015571
02/15/22 12:21 AM
02/15/22 12:21 AM
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I have no idea why they are sideways.

CDD47115-BB14-469D-916D-865326703011.jpeg14B50E22-A352-4192-9A71-859EA9614C0E.jpeg

I want my fair share
Re: Engine Masters 440-6 vs 426 Hemi [Re: SomeCarGuy] #3015572
02/15/22 12:23 AM
02/15/22 12:23 AM
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The article concludes “the hemi is the fastest standard car in the market.”

0F4665E6-2D23-437A-BEEC-E31B038AAE08.jpeg

I want my fair share
Re: Engine Masters 440-6 vs 426 Hemi [Re: SomeCarGuy] #3015625
02/15/22 12:16 PM
02/15/22 12:16 PM
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S.E. Michigan
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Emasculated Race engine vs great street engine:
Not really a shocker: Test will predictably favor the great street engine every time.

Race engine in it's first, original configuration as intended by Chrysler Engineering
(A990, '64 Circle track versions, etc).....The street version was a band aid to satisfy sanctioning bodies.

What I see is:
"We're just going to pretend the street version came out first and call that "the legendary".
in spite of awareness of history, knowledge Chrysler never wanted to sell them for the street, at all, and so forth.

Two points of compression, crossram manifold, probably another 30 degrees of duration/big solid flat tappet stuff=All came first and were the original intent....
these things just might affect horsepower ever so slightly don't you think? That is "the legendary" package swept under the rug for this lil' show.....

There is so much that is improved on with modern parts selection, for both engine types.

No matter what, I say: Have fun and build whatever it is you want while you can... because the day will come when you can't.

















Rich H.

Esse Quam Videri




Re: Engine Masters 440-6 vs 426 Hemi [Re: ZIPPY] #3015635
02/15/22 12:42 PM
02/15/22 12:42 PM
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Pattison Texas
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I say that Dulcich ported the 906 heads on that 440


1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI
512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim
2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5

Re: Engine Masters 440-6 vs 426 Hemi [Re: DaveRS23] #3015643
02/15/22 01:01 PM
02/15/22 01:01 PM
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West Virginia
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I rode in a 69 six-pack super bee , it was all stock but the cam, and it was no joke !

Re: Engine Masters 440-6 vs 426 Hemi [Re: B1Frank] #3015648
02/15/22 01:20 PM
02/15/22 01:20 PM
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fredericksburg,va
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I tried the six pac on my 64 440 race car, stock 74 engine with cam. Blocked the bleed sec hose and jetted up a little, ran no better than the 850 DP on the Torker. Now racing class the six pac is better than that AVS. My Plym had 3800 vert, 4.88 gears and 14-32 slicks so no problems there. I agree with Zippy, de-tuning the Hemi and pumping up the 440 is not real world. All about port velocity and volume, after 3500 the Hemi says “can we play thru”

Last edited by cudaman1969; 02/15/22 01:21 PM.
Re: Engine Masters 440-6 vs 426 Hemi [Re: ZIPPY] #3015651
02/15/22 01:21 PM
02/15/22 01:21 PM
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Minnesota
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Originally Posted by ZIPPY
Emasculated Race engine vs great street engine:
Not really a shocker: Test will predictably favor the great street engine every time.

Race engine in it's first, original configuration as intended by Chrysler Engineering
(A990, '64 Circle track versions, etc).....The street version was a band aid to satisfy sanctioning bodies.

What I see is:
"We're just going to pretend the street version came out first and call that "the legendary".
in spite of awareness of history, knowledge Chrysler never wanted to sell them for the street, at all, and so forth.

Two points of compression, crossram manifold, probably another 30 degrees of duration/big solid flat tappet stuff=All came first and were the original intent....
these things just might affect horsepower ever so slightly don't you think? That is "the legendary" package swept under the rug for this lil' show.....

There is so much that is improved on with modern parts selection, for both engine types.

No matter what, I say: Have fun and build whatever it is you want while you can... because the day will come when you can't.




iagree. RiGHt oN ZipsTEreR!


.


[img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img]
31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum
RS23J71
RS27J77
RP23J71
RO23J71
WM21J8A
I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do.
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"
Re: Engine Masters 440-6 vs 426 Hemi [Re: cudaman1969] #3015657
02/15/22 01:56 PM
02/15/22 01:56 PM
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I did the same swap for a friend with a iron six pack intake and stock 1970 carbs, the six pack was .15 ET quicker and 2.0 mph MPH faster than the Torker and Holley shruggy
Every Mopar BB that I have increase the fuel and airflow to went quicker and faster, from a single four barrel to a six pack to a tunnel ram shruggy


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Engine Masters 440-6 vs 426 Hemi [Re: Cab_Burge] #3015667
02/15/22 02:34 PM
02/15/22 02:34 PM
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fredericksburg,va
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Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
I did the same swap for a friend with a iron six pack intake and stock 1970 carbs, the six pack was .15 ET quicker and 2.0 mph MPH faster than the Torker and Holley shruggy
Every Mopar BB that I have increase the fuel and airflow to went quicker and faster, from a single four barrel to a six pack to a tunnel ram shruggy

I ran 1/8 miles so 1/4 would probably see the gain.

Re: Engine Masters 440-6 vs 426 Hemi [Re: cudaman1969] #3015778
02/15/22 08:44 PM
02/15/22 08:44 PM
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You may be correct up
We ran 1/4 mile only back then in SO CA. that was long before we got all the information on the time slip like we get today shruggy
When I put the six pack on my old pump gasstroker motor I got the car to go the fastest by making the outboard carbs. open quicker by using a bolt in the return slot on the center carb to force the outboard carbs open immediately at WOT wrench up


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Engine Masters 440-6 vs 426 Hemi [Re: Cab_Burge] #3016035
02/16/22 03:17 PM
02/16/22 03:17 PM
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Holland MI Ottawa
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Engines with a hi velocity (smaller ports and inline valves) are easier to make great street usable power- the 440 and the Buick Olds and Pontiac 455s. The Hi volume head motors definitely need to tap into their hi flow high RPM capability afforded them by their BIG ports and valves- the Hemi being the king here with the BBC and 351 4V Cleveland down the list from the Hemi. To own a 426 hemi powered car that runs 12s 13s 14s is simply not even touching where a Hemi shines. But a Hemi car regardless of ET is cool.


Keep old mopars alive.
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