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Re: DRIVING A COURSE W/ OLD IRON [Re: 68rrunner] #2945100
07/20/21 10:52 AM
07/20/21 10:52 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 531
Los Osos, Ca
C
CKessel Offline
mopar
CKessel  Offline
mopar
C

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 531
Los Osos, Ca
Originally Posted by 68rrunner
Car is good, ran it a Sears Point earlier this year to start shaking it out.
I had planned for the 341 Challenge again this year, but I'm not sure that the car is there. I think its mad after 10 years of storage. I've got a fresh 438 I just got back from the machine shop that I want to start messing with MPFI and the CNP stuff that AndyF and some of the guys figured out.
If I an get the 4.22's swapped out and track down a funky shimmy its sporadically having, I think I'll be at a couple more NASA events to close out the year and have the car ready for a 2022 season.

Cool. Will watch for updates. My car has been at a standstill since late 17 because we moved to the central coast. Built a garage, which is done and the car is inside after 2 years being out but covered up, but I still have some stuff to finish for the final inspection. Had been working on it in Ramona but had to stop due to move. Can't wait to get back at it. My focus is going to be time at Buttonwillow, some autox and a trip here and there to Famosa since its close.


Carl Kessel
Re: DRIVING A COURSE W/ OLD IRON [Re: Frankenduster] #2945227
07/20/21 03:15 PM
07/20/21 03:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,543
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,543
Brookeville, Md
Originally Posted by Frankenduster
Originally Posted by Mr.Yuck
Get the car as light as possible and ditch the t-bar front end and you'll be fine.


F A L S E.


lol ok go run a really heavy car.


[IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/pui5j.jpg[/IMG]
Coming soon!!!!
Re: DRIVING A COURSE W/ OLD IRON [Re: Mr.Yuck] #2945439
07/21/21 12:49 AM
07/21/21 12:49 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 21,607
Trumussia
J
jcc Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
jcc  Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
J

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 21,607
Trumussia
The lighter wallet will compensate for the heavy car?


If you can't dazzle them with diamonds, don't waste your time, because nothing will
Re: DRIVING A COURSE W/ OLD IRON [Re: CKessel] #2945659
07/21/21 02:52 PM
07/21/21 02:52 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 212
Mountain View, CA
6
68rrunner Offline
enthusiast
68rrunner  Offline
enthusiast
6

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 212
Mountain View, CA
I hear ya. After I got the car back from paint jail I was so busy driving for Kevin Wesley at the NASA events to get us qualified for Nationals the Road Runner had to sit. Had to drive the new junk before we could play with the old junk. I finally kicked a friends project (68 Dart) out of the garage and that has opened up my opportunities to tinker. Like a lazy idiot, I farmed out what should have some easy work to a shop I trusted and they really set me back. I'm now re-doing a bunch of stuff and my budget for fun stuff took a $12k whack. That plus the new engine (438cid) and my racing budget for the year is kaput. The guys are still trying to drag me out to the track so if I can get the new center section built in time and get the shimmy dialed out, I'll try to make NASA Sanoma in August for a few sessions.

Re: DRIVING A COURSE W/ OLD IRON [Re: 68rrunner] #2945710
07/21/21 05:21 PM
07/21/21 05:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 531
Los Osos, Ca
C
CKessel Offline
mopar
CKessel  Offline
mopar
C

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 531
Los Osos, Ca
Here is a link to my car. I mostly post projects on FBBO [ for b bodies only] due to the ease of doing so. Kind of tough, for me anyway, to do it here. https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/threads/updating-the-super-street-mopar.116131/


Carl Kessel
Re: DRIVING A COURSE W/ OLD IRON [Re: CKessel] #2945989
07/22/21 11:23 AM
07/22/21 11:23 AM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 337
Mequon, WI
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gzig5 Offline
enthusiast
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Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 337
Mequon, WI
Originally Posted by CKessel
Here is a link to my car. I mostly post projects on FBBO [ for b bodies only] due to the ease of doing so. Kind of tough, for me anyway, to do it here. https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/threads/updating-the-super-street-mopar.116131/

Do you have any more detail on the K-frame reinforcement? Did you separate all the panels and add structure somewhere?

Kframe Reinforcement.jpg
Re: DRIVING A COURSE W/ OLD IRON [Re: gzig5] #2946332
07/23/21 11:59 AM
07/23/21 11:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 531
Los Osos, Ca
C
CKessel Offline
mopar
CKessel  Offline
mopar
C

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 531
Los Osos, Ca
I didn't separate the panels, just drilled through one layer. My method of working this over had no engineering or FEA done, just me looking at going hmmm, just like in the old days. On the idler arm mount, I did got through two layers to get to main portion of the K. Outer hole was larger than next one. Filled it up like a soft serve cone. I did cut pockets at the control arm mount, you can see them in the upper corners. Got some weld around them on the inside. I picked up some structural washers from Fastenal to put on both sides of the tube. Tacked them on then formed them around the K, finished with welding all around. On the front side of the K, where the shaft pokes through, I welded the washers on that came with the FF greasable shafts then put larger flats around them and welded them on too. The strut rod pocket got attention. If you look inside the k, there is not much there. I boxed that area in with some metal plus I put some in so I could get some welds through the topside, engine side of the k, that attached to the added on pieces inside. For cutting all of the holes, I used my Blair Rotabroach set, the 1/4-3/4" set. I did add a skid plate too. I have not gotten to the topside of it yet addressing the steering box mount but that will get done in the future when I get back to work on it. There are also some areas around the engine mount brackets that need to get trimmed of excess material. Even after I had the K tanked two times, there was still a fair amount of grunge hiding in places that showed up with the weld heat. I ended up taking the torch to the inside and burned out as much as possible from any inner areas. Lots of smoke! I do have more pics of the K. Posting them on here is a pain. If you want, pm me with your email and I can send more to you.


Carl Kessel
Re: DRIVING A COURSE W/ OLD IRON [Re: 68rrunner] #2948632
07/29/21 06:58 PM
07/29/21 06:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,543
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,543
Brookeville, Md
Originally Posted by 68rrunner
I hear ya. After I got the car back from paint jail I was so busy driving for Kevin Wesley at the NASA events to get us qualified for Nationals the Road Runner had to sit. Had to drive the new junk before we could play with the old junk. I finally kicked a friends project (68 Dart) out of the garage and that has opened up my opportunities to tinker. Like a lazy idiot, I farmed out what should have some easy work to a shop I trusted and they really set me back. I'm now re-doing a bunch of stuff and my budget for fun stuff took a $12k whack. That plus the new engine (438cid) and my racing budget for the year is kaput. The guys are still trying to drag me out to the track so if I can get the new center section built in time and get the shimmy dialed out, I'll try to make NASA Sanoma in August for a few sessions.


what series are you running in NASA? I'd like to do American Iron, but the rules seem limiting on an old Mopar.


[IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/pui5j.jpg[/IMG]
Coming soon!!!!
Re: DRIVING A COURSE W/ OLD IRON [Re: Mr.Yuck] #2948635
07/29/21 07:03 PM
07/29/21 07:03 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 212
Mountain View, CA
6
68rrunner Offline
enthusiast
68rrunner  Offline
enthusiast
6

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 212
Mountain View, CA
We've been running TT3 as it has the best rules for the older cars. Tires, weight & power are the biggest parameters.

Re: DRIVING A COURSE W/ OLD IRON [Re: 68rrunner] #2948646
07/29/21 07:52 PM
07/29/21 07:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,543
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,543
Brookeville, Md
Originally Posted by 68rrunner
We've been running TT3 as it has the best rules for the older cars. Tires, weight & power are the biggest parameters.


is that just against the clock or are there other cars on the track? We like racing with others...


[IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/pui5j.jpg[/IMG]
Coming soon!!!!
Re: DRIVING A COURSE W/ OLD IRON [Re: Mr.Yuck] #2948807
07/30/21 12:10 PM
07/30/21 12:10 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 212
Mountain View, CA
6
68rrunner Offline
enthusiast
68rrunner  Offline
enthusiast
6

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 212
Mountain View, CA
Originally Posted by Mr.Yuck
Originally Posted by 68rrunner
We've been running TT3 as it has the best rules for the older cars. Tires, weight & power are the biggest parameters.


is that just against the clock or are there other cars on the track? We like racing with others...


It's Time Trials so fastest lap wins the day, however its usually pretty crowded for the first 3 sessions of the day. Its wheel to wheel with open passing. Finishing order sets grid for next session, we do rolling starts after a formation lap.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkC3rHEELOc&t=14607s

Go to about the 3hour 40min mark. You'll see Kevin pounding around in the Blue Pikes Peak car and me in the White Bilstien car

That is Nationals and the last day, so a lot of folks who knew they weren't going to podium didn't even take their cars out of the trailer. At my local events a TT session will be 30-40 cars. Usually hit the back markers after 3-4 laps.




Last edited by 68rrunner; 07/30/21 12:22 PM.
Re: DRIVING A COURSE W/ OLD IRON [Re: 68rrunner] #2948876
07/30/21 03:29 PM
07/30/21 03:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,543
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,543
Brookeville, Md
Originally Posted by 68rrunner
Originally Posted by Mr.Yuck
Originally Posted by 68rrunner
We've been running TT3 as it has the best rules for the older cars. Tires, weight & power are the biggest parameters.


is that just against the clock or are there other cars on the track? We like racing with others...


It's Time Trials so fastest lap wins the day, however its usually pretty crowded for the first 3 sessions of the day. Its wheel to wheel with open passing. Finishing order sets grid for next session, we do rolling starts after a formation lap.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkC3rHEELOc&t=14607s

Go to about the 3hour 40min mark. You'll see Kevin pounding around in the Blue Pikes Peak car and me in the White Bilstien car

That is Nationals and the last day, so a lot of folks who knew they weren't going to podium didn't even take their cars out of the trailer. At my local events a TT session will be 30-40 cars. Usually hit the back markers after 3-4 laps.





cool one reason you don't see Mopars (b-body's) in the cheap leagues is initial cost, nobody wants to destroy a Gen II or III b-body


[IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/pui5j.jpg[/IMG]
Coming soon!!!!
Re: DRIVING A COURSE W/ OLD IRON [Re: Mr.Yuck] #2949101
07/31/21 11:15 AM
07/31/21 11:15 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,258
Pikes Peak Country
T
TC@HP2 Offline
master
TC@HP2  Offline
master
T

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,258
Pikes Peak Country
Agreed. Wheel to wheel racing in a vintage mopar has become so expensive, it doesn't make much sense to use one any more. Perhaps there a re parts of the country where cool, old, inexpensive front engine/rwd mopars can be found, but it certainly isn't anywhere near where I live when I see basket case 4 dr F bodies being sold for $2500.

Re: DRIVING A COURSE W/ OLD IRON [Re: TC@HP2] #2949758
08/02/21 06:05 PM
08/02/21 06:05 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 212
Mountain View, CA
6
68rrunner Offline
enthusiast
68rrunner  Offline
enthusiast
6

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 212
Mountain View, CA
Even the weird stuff isn't cheap. Just sold my 62 4 door dart for 6k.

Re: DRIVING A COURSE W/ OLD IRON [Re: 68rrunner] #2949883
08/03/21 12:47 AM
08/03/21 12:47 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,562
Granite Bay CA
Frankenduster Offline
I Live Here
Frankenduster  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,562
Granite Bay CA
I have some doors and hoods for those early toads. THose cars are hideous!

Re: DRIVING A COURSE W/ OLD IRON [Re: Frankenduster] #2951793
08/08/21 05:47 PM
08/08/21 05:47 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 21,607
Trumussia
J
jcc Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
jcc  Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
J

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 21,607
Trumussia
Originally Posted by Frankenduster
I have some doors and hoods for those early toads. THose cars are hideous!


Beauty is still in the eye of the beholder methinks. grin

P6080037.JPG

If you can't dazzle them with diamonds, don't waste your time, because nothing will
Re: DRIVING A COURSE W/ OLD IRON [Re: jcc] #2951817
08/08/21 06:38 PM
08/08/21 06:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,562
Granite Bay CA
Frankenduster Offline
I Live Here
Frankenduster  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,562
Granite Bay CA
I should have been clearer...I had some 60-62 Valiant parts. I gave them away yesterday.

1 A 3.jpg1 A 10.jpg1 A 15.jpg1 A 16.jpg
Re: DRIVING A COURSE W/ OLD IRON [Re: Frankenduster] #2951918
08/09/21 12:11 AM
08/09/21 12:11 AM
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 11
Canada
B
bellenbeast Offline
member
bellenbeast  Offline
member
B

Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 11
Canada
Those who got these parts are lucky. They just need to do some polishing and it will be useful again.

Re: DRIVING A COURSE W/ OLD IRON [Re: bellenbeast] #2955107
08/18/21 06:08 PM
08/18/21 06:08 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,121
East Coast
A
A/MP Offline OP
super stock
A/MP  Offline OP
super stock
A

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,121
East Coast
I watched the 4 days of the Monterey Classic and found a recent series where they race the "70's Trans Am cars. Cars are originals and suspension and tires are strictly regulated to the era. I looked for a Mopar Performance Trans Am bulletin liked they had for drag racing with no luck. Did the 70's Nascar have to run the stock suspension? I figure that these 2 venues might be a ticket for much info. I have have an opportunity of putting my hands on a '66 Dart. That solves the weight issue.73+ UCA/LCA, spindles and 1" front torsion bars, might get me closer.

Re: DRIVING A COURSE W/ OLD IRON [Re: A/MP] #2955212
08/19/21 12:25 AM
08/19/21 12:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,726
Oregon
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AndyF Offline
Too Many Posts
AndyF  Offline
Too Many Posts
A

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,726
Oregon
I had a bunch of Mopar NASCAR chassis pictures in my B body performance book. Basically the Mopar chassis evolved as NASCAR evolved. In the late '60s they were using torsion bar suspensions with rear leaf springs but year after year the chassis designs became stronger and more sophisticated. The K frames got moved up and welded to the chassis rather than bolted on from below. The torsion bars lasted a few years but eventually gave way to coil springs. Same with the rear leaf springs. They hung in there for a bit but then gave way to the long swing arm truck rear suspension that everyone eventually moved to.

I poked around some old NASCAR and sportsman cars when I shot pictures for the book. It was interesting to see how they kept moving weight around and making things stronger. The battery box moved a bunch of times, they went from single shocks to dual shocks up front, moved from drum brakes to disc brakes, etc. They used the C body front knuckle for many years then eventually moved to an aftermarket design.

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