Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Track Day Car Square wheel dilemma #2919102
05/05/21 10:23 PM
05/05/21 10:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 21,491
Trumussia
J
jcc Offline OP
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
jcc  Offline OP
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
J

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 21,491
Trumussia
I am a big fan of a square tire set-up for hobbyist track day with not in competition cars. Luckily the wheels that work best for my set-up are 20x12, and can be had in the popular 3 5xBC's.

The problem is, it looks like I'm stuck with 5x5 in the front, and 5x4.75 in the rear. I'm a mopar guy and have plenty of 5x4.5 stuff, but I can't seem to under any situation make that work on this car.
Redrilling the hubs is not possible, there is not enough meat on the hubs in this application, period, trust me.

So is the car really "square" if the wheels are the same size but the BC are different? Is there a big downside to that. None on my existing wheels will fit unfortunately.

Additionally, if the BC's are different, I might as well optimize the back spacing also rather than compromise BS. The 20x12 wheels ain't cheap, so having spares on hand will not be my first goal, but one off track bent wheel excursion will make me change my mind I suspect rather promptly.

Any thoughts?



If you can't dazzle them with diamonds, don't waste your time, because nothing will
Re: Track Day Car Square wheel dilemma [Re: jcc] #2919143
05/06/21 12:05 AM
05/06/21 12:05 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,489
Granite Bay
Frankenduster Offline
I Live Here
Frankenduster  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,489
Granite Bay
Yeah....wheels are round, not square.

1 excited.jpg
Re: Track Day Car Square wheel dilemma [Re: Frankenduster] #2919205
05/06/21 08:50 AM
05/06/21 08:50 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 21,491
Trumussia
J
jcc Offline OP
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
jcc  Offline OP
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
J

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 21,491
Trumussia
They are when you have "square" tires.


If you can't dazzle them with diamonds, don't waste your time, because nothing will
Re: Track Day Car Square wheel dilemma [Re: jcc] #2919610
05/07/21 09:23 AM
05/07/21 09:23 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,246
Pikes Peak Country
T
TC@HP2 Offline
master
TC@HP2  Offline
master
T

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,246
Pikes Peak Country
Typically the guys I've worked with over the years considered equal tire sizes as a square set-up without consideration of the bolt circles or wheel offsets. It is the rarity that one runs into mixed bolt circles on a vehicle. I have seen it it, but it isn't common. However, if you do have alternate bolt circles in your hubs, all you really loose is the ability to easily rotate tires to any position. In a car turning right and left, I don't see that as an issue on the same level as a car that only turns one direction that may be running alternate diameters right to left.

Are replacement hubs in a square bolt pattern more or less expensive than the wheels under consideration and which methods serves the long term goals best?

Re: Track Day Car Square wheel dilemma [Re: TC@HP2] #2919817
05/07/21 09:56 PM
05/07/21 09:56 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 234
n.c.
G
geo. Offline
enthusiast
geo.  Offline
enthusiast
G

Joined: May 2015
Posts: 234
n.c.
Originally Posted by TC@HP2
Typically the guys I've worked with over the years considered equal tire sizes as a square set-up without consideration of the bolt circles or wheel offsets. It is the rarity that one runs into mixed bolt circles on a vehicle. I have seen it it, but it isn't common. However, if you do have alternate bolt circles in your hubs, all you really loose is the ability to easily rotate tires to any position. In a car turning right and left, I don't see that as an issue on the same level as a car that only turns one direction that may be running alternate diameters right to left.

Are replacement hubs in a square bolt pattern more or less expensive than the wheels under consideration and which methods serves the long term goals best?


I'd price this, and having wheels wheels re-drilled if there's enough meat between the existing pattern. I know I've read about holes being welded up and then re-drilled, so maybe the voids between your existing holes could be filled if there's not enough there to drill. In the long run probably be cheaper to pay to have tires remounted and balanced each time. And don't forget to price replacement axles, but then you'd still need two new wheels!
Years ago I thought one of the circle track wheel companies sold a 15" dual bolt pattern wheel, wonder if those are still available.But for circle track use I doubt you'd find them in 20" sizes.

Last edited by geo.; 05/07/21 10:01 PM.
Re: Track Day Car Square wheel dilemma [Re: geo.] #2919878
05/08/21 07:02 AM
05/08/21 07:02 AM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 3,336
ohio
R
ruderunner Offline
master
ruderunner  Offline
master
R

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 3,336
ohio
Not sure on current availability but wheels were available drilled for multiple patterns. And I don't mean unilug.

If the wheels are custom ordered, can they be double drilled?


Angry white guy
Re: Track Day Car Square wheel dilemma [Re: ruderunner] #2919959
05/08/21 11:55 AM
05/08/21 11:55 AM
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 140
rust belt
M
Moparite Offline
member
Moparite  Offline
member
M

Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 140
rust belt

Last edited by Moparite; 05/08/21 11:56 AM.
Re: Track Day Car Square wheel dilemma [Re: TC@HP2] #2919973
05/08/21 12:50 PM
05/08/21 12:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 21,491
Trumussia
J
jcc Offline OP
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
jcc  Offline OP
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
J

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 21,491
Trumussia
Originally Posted by TC@HP2
Typically the guys I've worked with over the years considered equal tire sizes as a square set-up without consideration of the bolt circles or wheel offsets. It is the rarity that one runs into mixed bolt circles on a vehicle. I have seen it it, but it isn't common. However, if you do have alternate bolt circles in your hubs, all you really loose is the ability to easily rotate tires to any position. In a car turning right and left, I don't see that as an issue on the same level as a car that only turns one direction that may be running alternate diameters right to left.

Are replacement hubs in a square bolt pattern more or less expensive than the wheels under consideration and which methods serves the long term goals best?


It 's becoming clear the complexity of having two different BC's on the car is greater then in my case, just building a new set of custom spindles with better bearings to then have my matching BC's. I need a stronger hub/bearing package then any stock offering available.

That will also allow me to go with Mopar friendly 4.5" BC, and since I believe GM 4.75" BC is a bit stronger, I'm likely when tapping for the 4.5" BC, I'll convert to either 9/16" or 14mm studs.

Redrilling/dual pattern wheels are not available for my size that I have found.

Last edited by jcc; 05/08/21 12:56 PM.

If you can't dazzle them with diamonds, don't waste your time, because nothing will
Re: Track Day Car Square wheel dilemma [Re: jcc] #2920129
05/08/21 07:14 PM
05/08/21 07:14 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 234
n.c.
G
geo. Offline
enthusiast
geo.  Offline
enthusiast
G

Joined: May 2015
Posts: 234
n.c.
Originally Posted by jcc
Originally Posted by TC@HP2
Typically the guys I've worked with over the years considered equal tire sizes as a square set-up without consideration of the bolt circles or wheel offsets. It is the rarity that one runs into mixed bolt circles on a vehicle. I have seen it it, but it isn't common. However, if you do have alternate bolt circles in your hubs, all you really loose is the ability to easily rotate tires to any position. In a car turning right and left, I don't see that as an issue on the same level as a car that only turns one direction that may be running alternate diameters right to left.

Are replacement hubs in a square bolt pattern more or less expensive than the wheels under consideration and which methods serves the long term goals best?


It 's becoming clear the complexity of having two different BC's on the car is greater then in my case, just building a new set of custom spindles with better bearings to then have my matching BC's. I need a stronger hub/bearing package then any stock offering available.

That will also allow me to go with Mopar friendly 4.5" BC, and since I believe GM 4.75" BC is a bit stronger, I'm likely when tapping for the 4.5" BC, I'll convert to either 9/16" or 14mm studs.

Redrilling/dual pattern wheels are not available for my size that I have found.


Well I admit you've got my attention, if you don't mind please answer some questions.

What car?

What rear axle?

What knuckles/front hubs?

If not using the popular circle track 5" pattern, I'd agree the 4.75" might be your best bet.

As an aside, when my bro. in-lsw built his mazda GTU car in 1980 he used the porsche bolt pattern. He said wheels, hubs, brake parts were more available and less$, and available used!

I lived with 4.5 on the front, and 5 on the rear of my road race Challenger for too long before I finally had the rear axles/rotors re-drilled.

There wasn't enough meat to re-drill the fomoco front hubs to 5"

Re: Track Day Car Square wheel dilemma [Re: geo.] #2920300
05/09/21 09:15 AM
05/09/21 09:15 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 21,491
Trumussia
J
jcc Offline OP
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
jcc  Offline OP
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
J

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 21,491
Trumussia
1972 Barracuda
CTS V modified/upgraded IRS converted to coilovers with a Quickchange, using upgraded SKF X tracker bearing 33 spline 4.75"BC hubs, now(?) being redrilled to 4.5" BC.
I'm currently heading down the path of fabbing some custom 7075 front uprights for an identical front bearing package, also redrilled. These X trackers do have limited track lifetimes, but seem to be the best available presently.
The 20x12 square wheel package for a 600+HP road race 3,000lb car at my home track of Sebring, which is really a demolition derby course built in 1941, seems to want a 5x5 front hub set-up, that is difficult to achieve squarely with all the above, and hence the point of this thread.


If you can't dazzle them with diamonds, don't waste your time, because nothing will
Re: Track Day Car Square wheel dilemma [Re: jcc] #2921922
05/12/21 10:42 PM
05/12/21 10:42 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 234
n.c.
G
geo. Offline
enthusiast
geo.  Offline
enthusiast
G

Joined: May 2015
Posts: 234
n.c.
sounds like quite a car!
Do you think wheel offset is a factor in bearing life?

Re: Track Day Car Square wheel dilemma [Re: geo.] #2922291
05/13/21 11:50 PM
05/13/21 11:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 21,491
Trumussia
J
jcc Offline OP
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
jcc  Offline OP
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
J

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 21,491
Trumussia
Yes


If you can't dazzle them with diamonds, don't waste your time, because nothing will






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1