LOL... Just watched a rerun of tonight's Ingraham Angle on FOX.
It seems someone on her staff finally discovered Flu/Pneumonia figures from the NY State Health site.
Was funny to see the exact figures I've been quoting on here to you guys for a week, finally appear on TV

They talked about the drop off starting at week 13... State officials reported response to their inquires was that "it happens all the time"... yeah right. It would have been more effective if she just would have posted the chart I posted here, instead of only quoting the weekly case numbers.... The clearly unexplainable drop in weeks 13-15 compared to exact same weeks in previous years, really drives the point home.

BFD, like I said, I can certainly see the incentive to classify those deaths as covid 19, maybe they did test positive. The real point is there are still a whole lot more dead people.

“Figures never lie, but liars are always figuring”
was one of my paternal grandmother’s favorite sayings.”

Others:

We are too soon old and too late smart

All sunshine and no rain makes a desert.

Be still little fish, all I want to do is
GUT YOU !

This grandmother survived both the 1918 flu and the 1957 flu.
She also survived a local Typhus epidemic in 1903 that killed my grandfather’s older brother.

What other “country sayings” are appropriate to our present situation?

How many other Moparts members have seen the
2001 French film Amelie

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amélie

where the shy nerdy guy is pleading to Amelie’s female friend to help him get Amelie to go on a first date with him, and the friend tests his “goodness” by saying the first half of, then asking him to complete the second half of a long string of traditional French country sayings?

About 45% of Americans have at least medical condition predicted to make COVID-19 worse

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-04-percent-adults-complications-covid-.html

Sample quote

Mary L. Adams, M.P.H., from On Target Health Data LLC in Suffield, Connecticut, and colleagues used population-based U.S. data to estimate the fraction of adults in the community who may be at increased risk for COVID-19 complications because they reported any of the chronic conditions with a high case-fatality rate in China. Publicly available 2017 Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System data were included from telephone surveys of 444,649 randomly selected adults.

The researchers found that 26.7, 12, 4.7, and 2 percent of the adults reported one, two, three, and four or more chronic conditions, respectively.

The prevalence rates of the chronic conditions were 8.5, 6.6, 9.1, 10.8, 32.4, and 6.8 percent for cardiovascular disease, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, asthma, diabetes, hypertension, and cancer, respectively; the overall prevalence was 45.4 percent.

With age, there was an increase in the percentage of adults with any of the chronic conditions; 53.4 percent were aged 18 to 59 years. There was variation in rates by state, race/ethnicity, insurance status, and employment, but not by sex.
End quote

Utah has been doing unusually good against coronavirus.

Is that because their ER and ICU are especially skilled,
or are Utah citizens more healthy?

The Navy now has 2 ships in port under quarantine due to Coronavirus infections. Hundreds of sailors have tested positive and one Commander was relieved of duty because he went out of the chain of command in response. But there have been no deaths reported. Hundreds infected but no one has died.

This morning, it was all over the news that Coronavirus deaths have now exceeded the number of Americans killed in the Vietnam War. An ironic comparison given the scandal over our government's inflated 'body counts' of the enemy. And how about the Tonken Gulf Resolution? Again, an inflated report from our leaders. https://www.history.com/topics/vietnam-war/gulf-of-tonkin-resolution-1

Most here are old enough to remember our government's disastrous response to the Swine Flu in 1976 that still resonates today in many communities. https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2009-apr-27-sci-swine-history27-story.html

There are many, many examples where our leaders have 'padded' the numbers to justify their actions. To deny that is to deny reality. And to not have a healthy scepticism of the reports being trumpeted by our government is naive. 'He who controls the information, controls'.

Our government's reaction to this virus is going to have long lasting effects on you, me, the economy, individuals and businesses. We have a duty to discuss how the information that these kind of decisions are made is gathered and reported. Just as we have a duty to discuss how and when we return to normal. And we have a duty to discuss at what point these kinds of actions should be repeated.

This is not North Korea or China. We have the right, if not the duty, to question our government's actions. They certainly have given us good reason to question them.

I read one of the Roosevelt sailors had died?

Likewise:
California vs. New York
SF Bay area vs NYC
Body Mass Index
Country vs City
Race
Sex
Age
So many variables for the number grinders/cherry pickers on both sides.
I say to the skeptics when you go out don't wear a mask and involve yourselves in high risk activities
I say to the fearful when you go out, do it infrequently during slack hours, and gear up and continue to sequester.
I have a hunch that many of the naysayers will not be running out of the gate and re-entering society asap.
Silver linings to pandemics....

the way this thread is progressing, it might pass the "loosing weight" thread that was so popular over on the racing forum by years end !

You're right, one sailor has died. Apparently he was found unresponsive on board the ship and had tested positive for Coronavirus. But as usual, it is unclear whether he simply had tested positive at the time of death or whether the virus itself actually killed him.

It is also interesting that with over 1,000 sailors testing positive, no sailors are currently in intensive care or on a ventilator.

It is also interesting that with over 1,000 sailors testing positive, no sailors are currently in intensive care or on a ventilator. [/quote]

Not hard at all.. they are in better shape.. In the states people are fat and out of shape and tend to live in
cities where its crouded

Where do you see the end game then? At what point do we pull back on the restrictions? Do we hunker down until the last vestiges of the disease have disappeared? We'll never make it. All it takes is for a single vector out of hundreds of millions of people to start another flare up. We're going to have to open the economy back up in measured intervals while keeping tabs on the case rates. Yes, this involves risk and this is just a cold reality. We need to have these discussions to figure out where that point is. Painting those attempting to find it with a broad brush as selfish serves only to shutdown the discussions we need to be having.

...and I'll say this again...someone wanting to go back to work is not inherently selfish and uncaring. You might be OK with a savings to draw upon, but not everyone is in that position. Besides, quarantine measures right now are being drawn as a one-size-fits-all policy for entire states. What needs to be done in NYC does not need to be done in upstate NY. This in itself is where a lot of the friction is coming from. We may very well get to a point where it makes more sense to keep those in high risk groups quarantined and send those that aren't back to work.

In my opinion, we need at the very least the following, in no particular order, before we can start opening again:

Plentiful PPE for healthcare workers
Widespread testing, that's no cost to the user whether they test positive or negative, so anyone can get tested
Contact tracing needs set up/expanded, so we can trace the infections we do know about from the free testing
People coming to the country need to be quarantined for 2 weeks and followed up with during that time
Everyone needs to wear a mask in public

The shut down bought us a lot of time to figure out more about how the virus works. We could have done even more with the couple months we had before it really took off, but we didn't

->Video of California immunologists that You Tube deleted<-

Immune systems aren't built up when you are sequestered in a bubble for months on end. I'm in that old fart high risk group, but, I don't lick toilet bowls, and I don't wear masks. If your plan is cowering in place, that's your choice. I chose not to.

Not clear to me with the demographics already suggested on the COVID fatalities, that a high percentage carry adequate medical insurance to cover over a weeks care in an ICU, ie they really become "charity cases". The Fed $38K ( if indeed accurate), likely is just to cover PPE for the staff. I don't see evidence of an overwhelming capitalistic financial goal here in this pandemic, yet. When the "death panels" start, I'll revisit the topic.

Your apparent callousness in the discussion of the horrible deaths of 100,000+ Americans using "ironic", is rather unconscionable.

Kinda like the father, who has his car stolen with his kidnapped daughter,who is assaulted, and the perp is caught when the car runs out of gas, and when the cops return the perp and the car to the fathers house, the dad ask's the perp, "What kind of mileage did you get?"

I don't expect any change in your in your demeanor no matter what I or anyone else can share here, but it has to be mentioned.

Once again you missed the whole point. Either that or you actually got the point and decided to try to twist it to your advantage. Simply put, the comparison is, in fact, ironic. If you really are still confused on this subject too, a little review of the well documented facts might help your confusion.

And now it's 100,000+? Where on Earth did you come up with that number?

I see a changed country, if not world at least for the short term.
During a measured return? Needs to be structured right and it likely will not involve the many "large group" activities owners and promoters love.
i.e. large concerts, sports auditoriums and stadiums, theaters, resorts, cruise ships, casinos, black fridays, and other concentrating activities as packed restaurants, fairs, parades, air travel , and unfortunately auto sports. Without re-thinking the entire approach that includes shirking health and safety rules.
I see many of those and other activities as a luxury that I have participated and may again sometime in the future. For now the risk is too high.
Anyone desiring to plod forth at this time should do so fully knowing there may be consequences of doing so.. Hopefully those that do will respect others "space" same way that people drive down the road, give some space. Tailgaters are risking others lives.

Another great post from a person with common sense,
Thank you.