Losing my mind....and bank balance.
#2702443
09/30/19 10:16 PM
09/30/19 10:16 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,082 St. Paul , Mn.
tubtar
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,082
St. Paul , Mn.
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Well , I got the Dart to a track for a test day finally. I learned a lot. Of stuff I didn't want to learn. Some guys can get drag radials to work , but I am coming to believe that I am not one of them. Traction was an issue. First trip , I left off the two step , set for 3100. Conservative. It spun through second and into third...........I was thinking it would resemble a 1960's funny car , but it did finally grab in third. Only to nose over at about 1000 feet , with zero on the fuel pressure gauge. 1.99 60 ' , 8.073 1/8th at 97.48 and a 12.068 @ 123.07 m.p.h. Coasting. It wouldn't build any fuel pressure and I thought maybe the vent was plugged ??? Creating a vacuum ? I wasn't sure , but I have the vent plumbed into the fill neck by the cap , so I disconnected the line and taped it on to a tube for the roll cage that is in the trunk. Hit the switch and the gauge popped right up to 6 1/2 p.s.i. , where I set it to. O.K. , let's give that a try. This time , I left off idle , but matted it instead of easing into it. 1.85 60 ' , and spinning hard again.........into second , and I short shifted it to try and get it to behave. Into third and I lifted as I clicked and eased into it. It felt like it was eating real estate pretty good , again to about 1000 feet and it fell flat on it's face again........even harder than pass # 1. 7.56 1/8th @ 97.86 11.603 @ 115 at the stripe. Zero fuel pressure on the gauge again. Tank with sump , filter ( a new one ) , pump and -8 line to carb , then past it to a BG bypass regulator and -10 return to the tank. I am thinking the pump is weak and having a tough time pushing the fuel forward maybe ? But it worked O.K. during all of the shenanigans / testing on the street in the last couple months. I had 295 - 65 X 15's on the back........E.T. Street R's , but they rubbed so I pulled them off. Went to 275 - 50 X 15's .........same tire. The biggun's wanted to hook it seemed , but I wasn't going to risk carving them up to get a decent time slip. And I probably should have gone to a 275 - 60 instead of a 50 , but I was hoping to improve things ratio wise and make the 3.91's in the rear think they were 4.86's or so. This is with Cal Tracs and mono's. , set to just touching. Rancho 9 ways on 6 , AlterKtion front end and single adjustable QA 1's on 7. I ordered an Aeromotive 3000 pump and filter , new fuel line and a pair of Hoosier 10.5 X 28 radial slicks. I know the fuel line is old , and have seen them fail internally and behave like a check valve. I don't know if that is going on here , but I am not taking any chances. We have three more test days on the schedule for this season and I really want to get it figured out before the snow flies. The car is making nice power when it is getting fuel , and I think I threw a big enough check at that to fix it. Getting it to the ground is the tough one to figure.
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Re: Losing my mind....and bank balance.
[Re: tubtar]
#2702474
10/01/19 02:38 AM
10/01/19 02:38 AM
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Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 5 CA
ericxnelson
member
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member
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 5
CA
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I think you're headed in the right direction on all counts. M/T drag radials are a whole different ball of wax than the Hoosiers - I had 60 series MTs on my dart and got them working pretty well but had the most passes on hoosiers, which pretty much were a regular drag tire (I went to M/T because of sidewall rub). I can't imagine a 50 series MT tire is good at your power level and suspension setup because it'll be so much less flex. Fuel system I think you have dialed in, but those issues are frustrating since you gotta just fix and wait till next time out
Last edited by ericxnelson; 10/01/19 02:40 AM.
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Re: Losing my mind....and bank balance.
[Re: Dragula]
#2702504
10/01/19 08:28 AM
10/01/19 08:28 AM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,082 St. Paul , Mn.
tubtar
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They were glued on and I don't think I ever hit them hard enough to spin on the rim. I am wondering about the slicks.........I have always screwed bias ply slicks to the rim. Should I be doing this with a radial slick ? I have a good Moroso gauge that reads in 1/2 lbs. I was at 21 with the D.R.'s
Last edited by tubtar; 10/01/19 08:29 AM.
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Re: Losing my mind....and bank balance.
[Re: justinp61]
#2702525
10/01/19 09:31 AM
10/01/19 09:31 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,673 On the parachute mount
n20mstr
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,673
On the parachute mount
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FIRST OF ALL.....I DONT THINK ANY DECENTLY FAST RADIAL CAR WOULD EVER WORK WITH RANCH SHOCKS
YOU NEED A DOUBLE ADJ IN THE REAR
....BAD A$$ STREET CAR.....
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Re: Losing my mind....and bank balance.
[Re: n20mstr]
#2702551
10/01/19 10:25 AM
10/01/19 10:25 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,237 North Central, Indiana
Roughbird72
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,237
North Central, Indiana
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FIRST OF ALL.....I DONT THINK ANY DECENTLY FAST RADIAL CAR WOULD EVER WORK WITH RANCH SHOCKS
YOU NEED A DOUBLE ADJ IN THE REAR
Track prep is also a big factor. My car is slow compared to most, on a prepped track I've been running 26 psi in the MT 275/60.
Last edited by Roughbird72; 10/01/19 10:27 AM.
72 Plymouth Roadrunner 11.08@123.25
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Re: Losing my mind....and bank balance.
[Re: n20mstr]
#2702588
10/01/19 12:02 PM
10/01/19 12:02 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,162 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,162
PA.
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FIRST OF ALL.....I DONT THINK ANY DECENTLY FAST RADIAL CAR WOULD EVER WORK WITH RANCH SHOCKS
YOU NEED A DOUBLE ADJ IN THE REAR
What do you consider decently fast
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: Losing my mind....and bank balance.
[Re: tabletop390]
#2702702
10/01/19 05:35 PM
10/01/19 05:35 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,458 Sydney,Australia
tex013
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,458
Sydney,Australia
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regards radials . Get a decent double rear shock , Viking does a radial valved unit that is what I have . With 123mph should be high 10s . My Ranchos lost control around 11.20s .You have to hit those suckers hard and hold them . I have run MT and Hoosier radials , never had a rag slick on it . I use the mt Probracket radial nowadays . Far more forgiving . Crap track is not your friend even with PBRs .
Tex
New best ET 10.259@129.65 . New best MPH 130.32 Finally fitted a solid cam, stepped it up a bit more 3690lbs through the mufflers New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm Power by Tex's Automotive
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Re: Losing my mind....and bank balance.
[Re: tubtar]
#2702706
10/01/19 05:54 PM
10/01/19 05:54 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,162 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,162
PA.
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10 inch Mickey Thompson drag radials on 10 inch wheels glued to rims with high tach. 1.38-1.41 sixty foots, stock frontend with 90/10 shocks, caltracs with Rancho shocks@3200 pounds.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: Losing my mind....and bank balance.
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2702780
10/01/19 10:11 PM
10/01/19 10:11 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,082 St. Paul , Mn.
tubtar
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OP
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Joined: Nov 2009
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St. Paul , Mn.
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10 inch Mickey Thompson drag radials on 10 inch wheels glued to rims with high tach. 1.38-1.41 sixty foots, stock frontend with 90/10 shocks, caltracs with Rancho shocks@3200 pounds.
I know it can be done. I don't know why I can't do it. This thing just blows the tires off at the hit........idle , or chip. Am I not spanking it hard enough ? I would think a brake would only make things worse. It's hard to tell where I should be paying attention , because there is no reaction from the car but spinning. It doesn't get up on anything but my nerves.
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Re: Losing my mind....and bank balance.
[Re: tubtar]
#2702787
10/01/19 10:30 PM
10/01/19 10:30 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,162 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,162
PA.
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10 inch Mickey Thompson drag radials on 10 inch wheels glued to rims with high tach. 1.38-1.41 sixty foots, stock frontend with 90/10 shocks, caltracs with Rancho shocks@3200 pounds.
I know it can be done. I don't know why I can't do it. This thing just blows the tires off at the hit........idle , or chip. Am I not spanking it hard enough ? I would think a brake would only make things worse. It's hard to tell where I should be paying attention , because there is no reaction from the car but spinning. It doesn't get up on anything but my nerves. I honestly wish I could tell you but I do know my son used to footbrake his with the same set-up with the same results. Now when box racing its on the floorboard with a 5600 stall 727 convertor. He has helped several guys out at the track setting up other guys Caltracks and one was a guy running Indy the following week in Stock or Super Stock and he found .10 for him. He set up 2 or 3 cars that night. I've never touched a set except for my Sons when I bought them used at an almost give away price. My heads-up car has them on it but it sits in darkness unused.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: Losing my mind....and bank balance.
[Re: a493demon]
#2703225
10/02/19 09:24 PM
10/02/19 09:24 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,082 St. Paul , Mn.
tubtar
OP
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OP
master
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,082
St. Paul , Mn.
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Bottom hole.........just touching the leafs , so no real pre load. Shocks are on 6. I have no experience with them , so I used the suggested baseline , and that isn't close. Changing to a slick will change things again , but I feel they will be more forgiving than the drag radials and give me a chance to find something to build on. If it blows off a 10.5 slick , then I will lose my mind. I don't want to back half the car and go big tire. And I am not re-inventing the wheel here. But it has me baffled.
Last edited by tubtar; 10/04/19 10:02 PM.
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Re: Losing my mind....and bank balance.
[Re: tubtar]
#2703472
10/03/19 04:06 PM
10/03/19 04:06 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,178 Indy
FlyFish
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,178
Indy
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More than likely the track prep was crap. Mine hooks just fine on a prepped track with a 275/60R15 Hoosier DR, 1.45 60', 6.5's @ 104mph. My Caltracs are set bottom hole,1 flats driver side, 2 flats passenger, shocks on 6.
67 Barracuda street car, 408, e85, 1.38 60', 6.44 @105.9 in the 1/8 mile, 10.19 @130.5 in the 1/4...so far....
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