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Losing my mind....and bank balance. #2702443
09/30/19 10:16 PM
09/30/19 10:16 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,082
St. Paul , Mn.
tubtar Offline OP
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tubtar  Offline OP
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St. Paul , Mn.
Well , I got the Dart to a track for a test day finally.
I learned a lot.
Of stuff I didn't want to learn.
Some guys can get drag radials to work , but I am coming to believe that I am not one of them.
Traction was an issue.
First trip , I left off the two step , set for 3100.
Conservative.
It spun through second and into third...........I was thinking it would resemble a 1960's funny car , but it did finally grab in third.
Only to nose over at about 1000 feet , with zero on the fuel pressure gauge.
1.99 60 ' , 8.073 1/8th at 97.48 and a 12.068 @ 123.07 m.p.h.
Coasting.
It wouldn't build any fuel pressure and I thought maybe the vent was plugged ???
Creating a vacuum ?
I wasn't sure , but I have the vent plumbed into the fill neck by the cap , so I disconnected the line and taped it on to a tube for the roll cage that is in the trunk.
Hit the switch and the gauge popped right up to 6 1/2 p.s.i. , where I set it to.
O.K. , let's give that a try.
This time , I left off idle , but matted it instead of easing into it.
1.85 60 ' , and spinning hard again.........into second , and I short shifted it to try and get it to behave.
Into third and I lifted as I clicked and eased into it.
It felt like it was eating real estate pretty good , again to about 1000 feet and it fell flat on it's face again........even harder than pass # 1.
7.56 1/8th @ 97.86
11.603 @ 115 at the stripe.
Zero fuel pressure on the gauge again.
Tank with sump , filter ( a new one ) , pump and -8 line to carb , then past it to a BG bypass regulator and -10 return to the tank.
I am thinking the pump is weak and having a tough time pushing the fuel forward maybe ?
But it worked O.K. during all of the shenanigans / testing on the street in the last couple months.
I had 295 - 65 X 15's on the back........E.T. Street R's , but they rubbed so I pulled them off.
Went to 275 - 50 X 15's .........same tire.
The biggun's wanted to hook it seemed , but I wasn't going to risk carving them up to get a decent time slip.
And I probably should have gone to a 275 - 60 instead of a 50 , but I was hoping to improve things ratio wise and make the 3.91's in the rear think they were 4.86's or so.
This is with Cal Tracs and mono's. , set to just touching. Rancho 9 ways on 6 , AlterKtion front end and single adjustable QA 1's on 7.
I ordered an Aeromotive 3000 pump and filter , new fuel line and a pair of Hoosier 10.5 X 28 radial slicks.
I know the fuel line is old , and have seen them fail internally and behave like a check valve.
I don't know if that is going on here , but I am not taking any chances.
We have three more test days on the schedule for this season and I really want to get it figured out before the snow flies.
The car is making nice power when it is getting fuel , and I think I threw a big enough check at that to fix it.
Getting it to the ground is the tough one to figure.

Re: Losing my mind....and bank balance. [Re: tubtar] #2702474
10/01/19 02:38 AM
10/01/19 02:38 AM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 5
CA
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ericxnelson Offline
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CA
I think you're headed in the right direction on all counts. M/T drag radials are a whole different ball of wax than the Hoosiers - I had 60 series MTs on my dart and got them working pretty well but had the most passes on hoosiers, which pretty much were a regular drag tire (I went to M/T because of sidewall rub). I can't imagine a 50 series MT tire is good at your power level and suspension setup because it'll be so much less flex.

Fuel system I think you have dialed in, but those issues are frustrating since you gotta just fix and wait till next time out wrench

Last edited by ericxnelson; 10/01/19 02:40 AM.
Re: Losing my mind....and bank balance. [Re: ericxnelson] #2702480
10/01/19 05:59 AM
10/01/19 05:59 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,379
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline
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Dragula  Offline
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Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Drag radials are tricky...I do not like them...We get one good pass, and the next pass up in smoke....No rhyme or reason. I like slicks for the most part. The guys that seem to get them to work are the guys that can feed the power in gradually.

For us, to get a car moving, our suspension is setup to drive that tire into the ground... DR's do not like that....I see guys running a 1.8 60ft and then click off an 8.50.....Just amazes me. Can you imagine what that run would be with a proper 1.20 60ft?

I hope you figure it out, my best suggestion is to try another tire gauge and double check air pressure, and make sure they are not slipping on the rim. Ours were spinning on the rim with a 1.50 60ft....We switched back to slicks with screws....


'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: Losing my mind....and bank balance. [Re: Dragula] #2702504
10/01/19 08:28 AM
10/01/19 08:28 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,082
St. Paul , Mn.
tubtar Offline OP
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tubtar  Offline OP
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They were glued on and I don't think I ever hit them hard enough to spin on the rim.
I am wondering about the slicks.........I have always screwed bias ply slicks to the rim.
Should I be doing this with a radial slick ?
I have a good Moroso gauge that reads in 1/2 lbs.
I was at 21 with the D.R.'s

Last edited by tubtar; 10/01/19 08:29 AM.
Re: Losing my mind....and bank balance. [Re: tubtar] #2702521
10/01/19 09:26 AM
10/01/19 09:26 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,678
W. Kentucky
justinp61 Offline
I Live Here
justinp61  Offline
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W. Kentucky
I've ran a 275 and 325 DR and 17-18.5 psi has worked best for me. My Dart has 325's on it now and I can't make them work on a mediocre track. When it's time to replace them most likely I'll buy Hoosier bias.

Re: Losing my mind....and bank balance. [Re: justinp61] #2702525
10/01/19 09:31 AM
10/01/19 09:31 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,662
On the parachute mount
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n20mstr Offline
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On the parachute mount
FIRST OF ALL.....I DONT THINK ANY DECENTLY FAST RADIAL CAR WOULD EVER WORK WITH RANCH SHOCKS

YOU NEED A DOUBLE ADJ IN THE REAR


....BAD A$$ STREET CAR.....
Re: Losing my mind....and bank balance. [Re: n20mstr] #2702551
10/01/19 10:25 AM
10/01/19 10:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,237
North Central, Indiana
Roughbird72 Offline
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Roughbird72  Offline
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Posts: 1,237
North Central, Indiana
Originally Posted by n20mstr
FIRST OF ALL.....I DONT THINK ANY DECENTLY FAST RADIAL CAR WOULD EVER WORK WITH RANCH SHOCKS

YOU NEED A DOUBLE ADJ IN THE REAR



iagree Track prep is also a big factor.
My car is slow compared to most, on a prepped track I've been running 26 psi in the MT 275/60.

Last edited by Roughbird72; 10/01/19 10:27 AM.

72 Plymouth Roadrunner 11.08@123.25
Re: Losing my mind....and bank balance. [Re: n20mstr] #2702588
10/01/19 12:02 PM
10/01/19 12:02 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116
PA.
pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John
pittsburghracer  Offline
"Little"John

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PA.
Originally Posted by n20mstr
FIRST OF ALL.....I DONT THINK ANY DECENTLY FAST RADIAL CAR WOULD EVER WORK WITH RANCH SHOCKS

YOU NEED A DOUBLE ADJ IN THE REAR





What do you consider decently fast


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: Losing my mind....and bank balance. [Re: tubtar] #2702618
10/01/19 01:15 PM
10/01/19 01:15 PM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 61
The Great State of PA
tabletop390 Offline
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Posts: 61
The Great State of PA
Go to a beadlock rim and play with your air pressures. Find a used set of wheels or use your current ones and get them converted if you want to save some money on beadlocks. I was able to pick up a ton of consistency with mine. If you do decide to go the conversion route, use a good shop like Mac-Fab or Exstreme Fab

Re: Losing my mind....and bank balance. [Re: tabletop390] #2702702
10/01/19 05:35 PM
10/01/19 05:35 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,457
Sydney,Australia
tex013 Offline
top fuel
tex013  Offline
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Posts: 2,457
Sydney,Australia
regards radials . Get a decent double rear shock , Viking does a radial valved unit that is what I have . With 123mph should be high 10s . My Ranchos lost control around 11.20s .You have to hit those suckers hard and hold them . I have run MT and Hoosier radials , never had a rag slick on it . I use the mt Probracket radial nowadays . Far more forgiving . Crap track is not your friend even with PBRs .

Tex


New best ET 10.259@129.65 .
New best MPH 130.32
Finally fitted a solid cam,
stepped it up a bit more
3690lbs through the mufflers
New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm
Power by Tex's Automotive
Re: Losing my mind....and bank balance. [Re: tubtar] #2702706
10/01/19 05:54 PM
10/01/19 05:54 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116
PA.
pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John
pittsburghracer  Offline
"Little"John

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116
PA.
10 inch Mickey Thompson drag radials on 10 inch wheels glued to rims with high tach. 1.38-1.41 sixty foots, stock frontend with 90/10 shocks, caltracs with Rancho shocks@3200 pounds.

0A921D60-44B4-4D0A-994C-4058B26CA39C.jpeg3C558DBF-386E-4BE0-B713-67FFA99A7498.jpeg1828E870-7D95-497F-B051-6DE43D328FE1.jpeg

1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: Losing my mind....and bank balance. [Re: pittsburghracer] #2702780
10/01/19 10:11 PM
10/01/19 10:11 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,082
St. Paul , Mn.
tubtar Offline OP
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tubtar  Offline OP
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St. Paul , Mn.
Originally Posted by pittsburghracer
10 inch Mickey Thompson drag radials on 10 inch wheels glued to rims with high tach. 1.38-1.41 sixty foots, stock frontend with 90/10 shocks, caltracs with Rancho shocks@3200 pounds.



I know it can be done.
I don't know why I can't do it.
This thing just blows the tires off at the hit........idle , or chip.
Am I not spanking it hard enough ?
I would think a brake would only make things worse.
It's hard to tell where I should be paying attention , because there is no reaction from the car but spinning.
It doesn't get up on anything but my nerves.

Re: Losing my mind....and bank balance. [Re: tubtar] #2702787
10/01/19 10:30 PM
10/01/19 10:30 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116
PA.
pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John
pittsburghracer  Offline
"Little"John

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116
PA.
Originally Posted by tubtar
Originally Posted by pittsburghracer
10 inch Mickey Thompson drag radials on 10 inch wheels glued to rims with high tach. 1.38-1.41 sixty foots, stock frontend with 90/10 shocks, caltracs with Rancho shocks@3200 pounds.



I know it can be done.
I don't know why I can't do it.
This thing just blows the tires off at the hit........idle , or chip.
Am I not spanking it hard enough ?
I would think a brake would only make things worse.
It's hard to tell where I should be paying attention , because there is no reaction from the car but spinning.
It doesn't get up on anything but my nerves.




I honestly wish I could tell you but I do know my son used to footbrake his with the same set-up with the same results. Now when box racing its on the floorboard with a 5600 stall 727 convertor. He has helped several guys out at the track setting up other guys Caltracks and one was a guy running Indy the following week in Stock or Super Stock and he found .10 for him. He set up 2 or 3 cars that night. I've never touched a set except for my Sons when I bought them used at an almost give away price. My heads-up car has them on it but it sits in darkness unused.


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: Losing my mind....and bank balance. [Re: pittsburghracer] #2702798
10/01/19 11:40 PM
10/01/19 11:40 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,550
baldwinsville new york
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a493demon Offline
pro stock
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Posts: 1,550
baldwinsville new york
How do you have the cals set up ?
I have been kind of fast on them with just glued tires no bead locks .

5.26.jpg
Re: Losing my mind....and bank balance. [Re: a493demon] #2703225
10/02/19 09:24 PM
10/02/19 09:24 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,082
St. Paul , Mn.
tubtar Offline OP
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Bottom hole.........just touching the leafs , so no real pre load.
Shocks are on 6.
I have no experience with them , so I used the suggested baseline , and that isn't close.
Changing to a slick will change things again , but I feel they will be more forgiving than the drag radials and give me a chance to find something to build on.
If it blows off a 10.5 slick , then I will lose my mind.
I don't want to back half the car and go big tire.
And I am not re-inventing the wheel here.
But it has me baffled.

Last edited by tubtar; 10/04/19 10:02 PM.
Re: Losing my mind....and bank balance. [Re: tubtar] #2703273
10/02/19 11:19 PM
10/02/19 11:19 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,550
baldwinsville new york
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a493demon Offline
pro stock
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Posts: 1,550
baldwinsville new york
I had mine at 1/16 gap , bottom hole and calver shocks full tight.
Went to DA shocks and helped a lot

Re: Losing my mind....and bank balance. [Re: tubtar] #2703472
10/03/19 04:06 PM
10/03/19 04:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,178
Indy
FlyFish Offline
super stock
FlyFish  Offline
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Indy
More than likely the track prep was crap. Mine hooks just fine on a prepped track with a 275/60R15 Hoosier DR, 1.45 60', 6.5's @ 104mph. My Caltracs are set bottom hole,1 flats driver side, 2 flats passenger, shocks on 6.


67 Barracuda street car, 408, e85, 1.38 60', 6.44 @105.9 in the 1/8 mile, 10.19 @130.5 in the 1/4...so far....






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