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Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world... [Re: dodgeboy11] #1821546
05/08/15 01:11 AM
05/08/15 01:11 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 13,189
aZLiViN
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I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 13,189
aZLiViN
Originally Posted By dodgeboy11
An engine needs some backpressure on the exhaust to run right.


Actually that describes the Revolution engine on my V-Rod. Bought it with an aftermarket pipe and tuner. Went to stock pipes and it absolutely woke the bike up.

Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world... [Re: slantzilla] #1821550
05/08/15 01:14 AM
05/08/15 01:14 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila Offline
master
Crizila  Offline
master

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Az
Originally Posted By slantzilla
Originally Posted By dustergirl340
Still haven't had anyone snatch that gosh darned $20 bill off the dash yet...of course my car does make 1,200 HP on Yellowbullet.


Fixed.
Originally Posted By slantzilla
Originally Posted By dustergirl340
Still haven't had anyone snatch that gosh darned $20 bill off the dash yet...of course my car does make 1,200 HP on Yellowbullet.


Fixed.
grin


Fastest 300
Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world... [Re: Hot 340] #1821559
05/08/15 01:22 AM
05/08/15 01:22 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 429
Washington
skrews Online content
mopar
skrews  Online Content
mopar

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 429
Washington
Gotta have X heads on your small block.

Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world... [Re: Hot 340] #1821569
05/08/15 01:40 AM
05/08/15 01:40 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 429
Washington
skrews Online content
mopar
skrews  Online Content
mopar

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 429
Washington
"Thermoquad is the same as fuel injection." Yeah, I've heard that one a few times.

Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world... [Re: Hot 340] #1821585
05/08/15 01:56 AM
05/08/15 01:56 AM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,563
Janesville, WI
SpareParts Offline
pro stock
SpareParts  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,563
Janesville, WI
It's warmed over

Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world... [Re: Hot 340] #1821589
05/08/15 01:58 AM
05/08/15 01:58 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 429
Washington
skrews Online content
mopar
skrews  Online Content
mopar

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 429
Washington
Heads have been "Hogged Out"

Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world... [Re: Hot 340] #1821699
05/08/15 09:55 AM
05/08/15 09:55 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 561
USA
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B3RE Offline
mopar
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mopar
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Posts: 561
USA
My roller is centered on the valve tip, so my geometry is good.

I got custom length pushrods, so my geometry is good.

I didn't pay a lot for that part and it broke. It must be junk!
I paid a lot for that part and it broke. It has to be something else!


Mike Beachel

I didn't write the rules of math nor create the laws of physics, I am just bound by them.
Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world... [Re: 1967dartgt] #1821708
05/08/15 10:20 AM
05/08/15 10:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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BradH Offline
Taking time off to work on my car
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
Originally Posted By 1967dartgt
You
Originally Posted By BradH
Originally Posted By 1967dartgt
You need high velocity ports!

I guess it depends on who's stating the "old theory"...

Darin Morgan: "Make no mistake, velocity is the primary variable in the design of the entire induction system...


So why does my pump gas small block go faster then your high velocity big block?

You mean the 3700# 452 c.i., flat-tappet cam, pump-gas street car I drove from Virginia to race at E-town (about a 500 mile round trip) over the weekend and also raced at Cecil County on the drive up?

I have no idea, since we're obviously talking a total apples-to-apples comparison. realcrazy

And I'll aplogize in advance, but I still think Darin Morgan might know a little more about cylinder heads than you.

EDIT: On a less sarcastic note, I recognize that you can have a larger volume & better flowing head that has better velocity characteristics than a smaller & lower flowing head.

I'm hoping that the Victors that are replacing my old Stage VIs prove that out on the track, as well as flowing better across the lift curve on the flow bench. The CD #s (Coefficient of Discharge) values are better through the lift curve w/ the Victors, too. luck

Last edited by BradH; 05/08/15 01:36 PM.
Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world... [Re: BradH] #1821766
05/08/15 12:41 PM
05/08/15 12:41 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,675
Akron, Ohio U.S.A.
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Akron, Ohio U.S.A.
Originally Posted By BradH
Originally Posted By 1967dartgt
You need high velocity ports!

I guess it depends on who's stating the "old theory"...

Darin Morgan: "Make no mistake, velocity is the primary variable in the design of the entire induction system. I often say that my job title should be Velocity Manager instead of Cylinder Head Designer. Air speed is 10 times more important than raw flow numbers. If you kill the velocity by 10 percent, you will kill almost 40 percent of the wave and ram energy that dynamically fills the cylinder! Raw airflow cfm is an important variable as well; it's just not as important. If you buy a cylinder head that is properly sized for a flow of 400 cfm and your engine is only asking for 350 cfm, you will not only fail to achieve the power potential that the 400 cfm would have given you, you will also fail to reach the power that the 350 cfm would have given you. That's because you killed all the air speed in the induction system. If your engine is asking for 350 cfm and you give it a properly sized cylinder head flowing 350 cfm, your airflow demand is matched and your air speed is matched. You then have a chance of achieving the power potential that 350 cfm can give you."

"How much power potential can 350 cfm give? Well, that depends on a host of variables such as engine speed, overall induction system design, and piston speed. To put it in basic terms, the less restriction you have in the induction system and the more freedom you have to attain increased engine speeds, the easier it is to extract the full potential of the 350 cfm available. Most people don't know how much airflow their engine is actually asking for! This leads to builders wanting to purchase cylinder heads with way more airflow than their engines can possibly use. The end result is a low air-speed induction system that can't properly fill the cylinder by means of dynamic inertia and harmonic supercharging, which means the engine will never reach its full power potential."

"That said, a good cylinder head port design will flow a lot of air for its valve size. The bad news is that a bad port design will flow just as much if not more air! Airflow alone won't tell you if a port design will reach its power potential with 100 percent certainty. Everyone knows that it's easy to compare two 23-degree small-block Chevy heads with 220cc ports. Just pick the one with the most flow, right? That's about all the average builder can do, and in a lot of cases it's hit-and-miss. There are multitudes of ways to achieve that 220ccs. You can have a big pushrod pinch section and a very small bowl area, or a huge bowl area and a super small pushrod pinch area. One 220cc port can actually be choked off at the pushrod, short-turn radius, or throat area, hurting top end power. Another 220cc port design can have too small of a bowl area and too large of a choke and hurt power and torque equally across the entire power range. Having extra airflow isn't always bad, but it can't come at the expense of air speed. The ports must be sized properly. The amount of air Pro Comp Eliminator engines are asking for are exactly how much the heads flow, and that's not a coincidence. People want to make cylinder head design simple, but it's not. It's very complex and interdependent on a massive amount of variables."



I can prove this theory by installing my Indy -1's and slowing my car down laugh2

Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world... [Re: RUNCHARGER] #1821831
05/08/15 02:02 PM
05/08/15 02:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 403
southern Maryland
K
keefe Offline
mopar
keefe  Offline
mopar
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Posts: 403
southern Maryland
Originally Posted By RUNCHARGER
I really could care less about most of this new technology. I like my old stuff and if someone doesn't like the way I spend my money, they can buy my car and do what they want with it. Other than that I guess they can keep their yap shut about it.

Sheldon

True That... up


1971 duster twister 440, 3380#,509 M/P hyd,906's,full Exhaust,11.06@117.46 1/4,6.95@ 97.03 1/8,1.497 60ft.....
Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world... [Re: Hot 340] #1821840
05/08/15 02:19 PM
05/08/15 02:19 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,401
Tucson, Arizona
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MRMOPAR Offline
top fuel
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top fuel
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,401
Tucson, Arizona
Full race wheel covers, stroked radio antenna, and Fazzooolll Headers.
and lets not forget

Those parts "Bolt Right ON".........


68 RR 528" INDY MAXX 07 2500 CTD Southwest International Raceway - IHRA - Tucson, AZ
Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world... [Re: keefe] #1821849
05/08/15 02:30 PM
05/08/15 02:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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BradH Offline
Taking time off to work on my car
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
Originally Posted By keefe
Originally Posted By RUNCHARGER
I really could care less about most of this new technology. I like my old stuff and if someone doesn't like the way I spend my money, they can buy my car and do what they want with it. Other than that I guess they can keep their yap shut about it.

Sheldon

True That... up

Keefe, this thread's all about you! grin
--> 906 heads - Check!
--> MP .509 cam - Check!
--> Super Stock springs - Check!

green

Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world... [Re: BradH] #1821905
05/08/15 03:54 PM
05/08/15 03:54 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,176
Bend,OR USA
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I Win
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I Win
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Bend,OR USA
No myths on this post that I can remember now to post about blush I have found that every BB Mopar that was raced at the track or dyno tested that I worked on like more air up It didn't seem to matter if it was from the carb. size, camshaft, exhaust system, heads or a combination of some of those listed or all of them work I have not managed to make less power or go slower by increasing the air flow and fuel supply shruggy Now, about them excellent Mopar brand Purple shaft street hemi grinds or any of the rest of those cams, have any of you found any of them that worked well whistling stirthepot smile


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world... [Re: Hot 340] #1821909
05/08/15 04:00 PM
05/08/15 04:00 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,174
PA.
pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John
pittsburghracer  Offline
"Little"John

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,174
PA.
Its kinda FUNNY how some guys knock the old stuff but 38 years ago I was running high 9's in my Duster with stock blocks, stock cranks, TRW pistons, and 906 heads and 38 years later some guys still can't run 9's with stroker engines and good heads. Makes you think, doesn't it???????????


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world... [Re: pittsburghracer] #1821916
05/08/15 04:30 PM
05/08/15 04:30 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 610
long time lurker, short time p...
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mopar
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mopar
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 610
long time lurker, short time p...
Originally Posted By pittsburghracer
Its kinda FUNNY how some guys knock the old stuff but 38 years ago I was running high 9's in my Duster with stock blocks, stock cranks, TRW pistons, and 906 heads and 38 years later some guys still can't run 9's with stroker engines and good heads. Makes you think, doesn't it???????????

Some guys figure out how to make chicken salad out of chicken sh!t, and others can't spell "cat" if you spot them "ca_". That's just something that's never going to change.

Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world... [Re: Hot 340] #1821919
05/08/15 04:36 PM
05/08/15 04:36 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 48
missouri
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ragin sonny Offline
member
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Posts: 48
missouri
I always ran the classic,440, trw 11.5 domes, 509, 906's tm7 850 dp. fast enough to hold its own against the competition of the day. now all that stuff is junk on this site

Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world... [Re: pittsburghracer] #1821922
05/08/15 04:38 PM
05/08/15 04:38 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,161
CT
GTX MATT Offline
master
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Posts: 5,161
CT
Originally Posted By pittsburghracer
Its kinda FUNNY how some guys knock the old stuff but 38 years ago I was running high 9's in my Duster with stock blocks, stock cranks, TRW pistons, and 906 heads and 38 years later some guys still can't run 9's with stroker engines and good heads. Makes you think, doesn't it???????????


Yeah, makes me think I should have you tune up my car drive


Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world... [Re: Hot 340] #1821958
05/08/15 05:39 PM
05/08/15 05:39 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 760
Canada
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CTD5.9 Offline
super stock
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super stock
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Posts: 760
Canada
So much resentment between mopar people, it's kind of sad. Especially since a bunch of it just revolves around slang terms thrown out there.

At least my anger is caused by other brands fans saying that mopars won't run if there is a cloud in the sky or rain in the 7 day forecast

Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world... [Re: Al_Alguire] #1822131
05/08/15 09:06 PM
05/08/15 09:06 PM
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Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila Offline
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Az
Originally Posted By Al_Alguire
Pretty much 99% of the tech on the Mopar world is antiquated along with the thinking of most Mopar owners.
No real positive / polite response to that comment. At my age, I do take it some what personal. That's ok, at my age I am a whole lot less naïve than many ( already made those mistakes). Pretty fine line between technology and BS - at times.


Fastest 300
Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world... [Re: BradH] #1822148
05/08/15 09:27 PM
05/08/15 09:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 403
southern Maryland
K
keefe Offline
mopar
keefe  Offline
mopar
K

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 403
southern Maryland
Originally Posted By BradH
Originally Posted By keefe
Originally Posted By RUNCHARGER
I really could care less about most of this new technology. I like my old stuff and if someone doesn't like the way I spend my money, they can buy my car and do what they want with it. Other than that I guess they can keep their yap shut about it.

Sheldon

True That... up

Keefe, this thread's all about you! grin
--> 906 heads - Check!
--> MP .509 cam - Check!
--> Super Stock springs - Check!

green

Yes Sir....LOL smoke


1971 duster twister 440, 3380#,509 M/P hyd,906's,full Exhaust,11.06@117.46 1/4,6.95@ 97.03 1/8,1.497 60ft.....
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