Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world...
[Re: dodgeboy11]
#1821546
05/08/15 01:11 AM
05/08/15 01:11 AM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 13,189 aZLiViN
J_BODY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 13,189
aZLiViN
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An engine needs some backpressure on the exhaust to run right. Actually that describes the Revolution engine on my V-Rod. Bought it with an aftermarket pipe and tuner. Went to stock pipes and it absolutely woke the bike up.
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Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world...
[Re: slantzilla]
#1821550
05/08/15 01:14 AM
05/08/15 01:14 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506 Az
Crizila
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
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Still haven't had anyone snatch that gosh darned $20 bill off the dash yet...of course my car does make 1,200 HP on Yellowbullet. Fixed. Still haven't had anyone snatch that gosh darned $20 bill off the dash yet...of course my car does make 1,200 HP on Yellowbullet. Fixed.
Fastest 300
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Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world...
[Re: Hot 340]
#1821699
05/08/15 09:55 AM
05/08/15 09:55 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 561 USA
B3RE
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 561
USA
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My roller is centered on the valve tip, so my geometry is good.
I got custom length pushrods, so my geometry is good.
I didn't pay a lot for that part and it broke. It must be junk! I paid a lot for that part and it broke. It has to be something else!
Mike Beachel
I didn't write the rules of math nor create the laws of physics, I am just bound by them.
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Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world...
[Re: 1967dartgt]
#1821708
05/08/15 10:20 AM
05/08/15 10:20 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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You You need high velocity ports! I guess it depends on who's stating the "old theory"... Darin Morgan: "Make no mistake, velocity is the primary variable in the design of the entire induction system... So why does my pump gas small block go faster then your high velocity big block? You mean the 3700# 452 c.i., flat-tappet cam, pump-gas street car I drove from Virginia to race at E-town (about a 500 mile round trip) over the weekend and also raced at Cecil County on the drive up? I have no idea, since we're obviously talking a total apples-to-apples comparison. And I'll aplogize in advance, but I still think Darin Morgan might know a little more about cylinder heads than you. EDIT: On a less sarcastic note, I recognize that you can have a larger volume & better flowing head that has better velocity characteristics than a smaller & lower flowing head. I'm hoping that the Victors that are replacing my old Stage VIs prove that out on the track, as well as flowing better across the lift curve on the flow bench. The CD #s (Coefficient of Discharge) values are better through the lift curve w/ the Victors, too.
Last edited by BradH; 05/08/15 01:36 PM.
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Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world...
[Re: BradH]
#1821766
05/08/15 12:41 PM
05/08/15 12:41 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,675 Akron, Ohio U.S.A.
roadhazard
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,675
Akron, Ohio U.S.A.
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You need high velocity ports! I guess it depends on who's stating the "old theory"... Darin Morgan: "Make no mistake, velocity is the primary variable in the design of the entire induction system. I often say that my job title should be Velocity Manager instead of Cylinder Head Designer. Air speed is 10 times more important than raw flow numbers. If you kill the velocity by 10 percent, you will kill almost 40 percent of the wave and ram energy that dynamically fills the cylinder! Raw airflow cfm is an important variable as well; it's just not as important. If you buy a cylinder head that is properly sized for a flow of 400 cfm and your engine is only asking for 350 cfm, you will not only fail to achieve the power potential that the 400 cfm would have given you, you will also fail to reach the power that the 350 cfm would have given you. That's because you killed all the air speed in the induction system. If your engine is asking for 350 cfm and you give it a properly sized cylinder head flowing 350 cfm, your airflow demand is matched and your air speed is matched. You then have a chance of achieving the power potential that 350 cfm can give you." "How much power potential can 350 cfm give? Well, that depends on a host of variables such as engine speed, overall induction system design, and piston speed. To put it in basic terms, the less restriction you have in the induction system and the more freedom you have to attain increased engine speeds, the easier it is to extract the full potential of the 350 cfm available. Most people don't know how much airflow their engine is actually asking for! This leads to builders wanting to purchase cylinder heads with way more airflow than their engines can possibly use. The end result is a low air-speed induction system that can't properly fill the cylinder by means of dynamic inertia and harmonic supercharging, which means the engine will never reach its full power potential." "That said, a good cylinder head port design will flow a lot of air for its valve size. The bad news is that a bad port design will flow just as much if not more air! Airflow alone won't tell you if a port design will reach its power potential with 100 percent certainty. Everyone knows that it's easy to compare two 23-degree small-block Chevy heads with 220cc ports. Just pick the one with the most flow, right? That's about all the average builder can do, and in a lot of cases it's hit-and-miss. There are multitudes of ways to achieve that 220ccs. You can have a big pushrod pinch section and a very small bowl area, or a huge bowl area and a super small pushrod pinch area. One 220cc port can actually be choked off at the pushrod, short-turn radius, or throat area, hurting top end power. Another 220cc port design can have too small of a bowl area and too large of a choke and hurt power and torque equally across the entire power range. Having extra airflow isn't always bad, but it can't come at the expense of air speed. The ports must be sized properly. The amount of air Pro Comp Eliminator engines are asking for are exactly how much the heads flow, and that's not a coincidence. People want to make cylinder head design simple, but it's not. It's very complex and interdependent on a massive amount of variables." I can prove this theory by installing my Indy -1's and slowing my car down
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Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world...
[Re: RUNCHARGER]
#1821831
05/08/15 02:02 PM
05/08/15 02:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 403 southern Maryland
keefe
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 403
southern Maryland
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I really could care less about most of this new technology. I like my old stuff and if someone doesn't like the way I spend my money, they can buy my car and do what they want with it. Other than that I guess they can keep their yap shut about it.
Sheldon True That...
1971 duster twister 440, 3380#,509 M/P hyd,906's,full Exhaust,11.06@117.46 1/4,6.95@ 97.03 1/8,1.497 60ft.....
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Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world...
[Re: Hot 340]
#1821840
05/08/15 02:19 PM
05/08/15 02:19 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,401 Tucson, Arizona
MRMOPAR
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,401
Tucson, Arizona
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Full race wheel covers, stroked radio antenna, and Fazzooolll Headers. and lets not forget
Those parts "Bolt Right ON".........
68 RR 528" INDY MAXX
07 2500 CTD
Southwest International Raceway - IHRA - Tucson, AZ
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Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world...
[Re: keefe]
#1821849
05/08/15 02:30 PM
05/08/15 02:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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I really could care less about most of this new technology. I like my old stuff and if someone doesn't like the way I spend my money, they can buy my car and do what they want with it. Other than that I guess they can keep their yap shut about it.
Sheldon True That... Keefe, this thread's all about you! --> 906 heads - Check! --> MP .509 cam - Check! --> Super Stock springs - Check!
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Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world...
[Re: BradH]
#1821905
05/08/15 03:54 PM
05/08/15 03:54 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,176 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,176
Bend,OR USA
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No myths on this post that I can remember now to post about I have found that every BB Mopar that was raced at the track or dyno tested that I worked on like more air It didn't seem to matter if it was from the carb. size, camshaft, exhaust system, heads or a combination of some of those listed or all of them I have not managed to make less power or go slower by increasing the air flow and fuel supply Now, about them excellent Mopar brand Purple shaft street hemi grinds or any of the rest of those cams, have any of you found any of them that worked well
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world...
[Re: Hot 340]
#1821909
05/08/15 04:00 PM
05/08/15 04:00 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,174 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,174
PA.
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Its kinda FUNNY how some guys knock the old stuff but 38 years ago I was running high 9's in my Duster with stock blocks, stock cranks, TRW pistons, and 906 heads and 38 years later some guys still can't run 9's with stroker engines and good heads. Makes you think, doesn't it???????????
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world...
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#1821916
05/08/15 04:30 PM
05/08/15 04:30 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 610 long time lurker, short time p...
PorkyPig
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 610
long time lurker, short time p...
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Its kinda FUNNY how some guys knock the old stuff but 38 years ago I was running high 9's in my Duster with stock blocks, stock cranks, TRW pistons, and 906 heads and 38 years later some guys still can't run 9's with stroker engines and good heads. Makes you think, doesn't it??????????? Some guys figure out how to make chicken salad out of chicken sh!t, and others can't spell "cat" if you spot them "ca_". That's just something that's never going to change.
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Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world...
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#1821922
05/08/15 04:38 PM
05/08/15 04:38 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,161 CT
GTX MATT
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,161
CT
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Its kinda FUNNY how some guys knock the old stuff but 38 years ago I was running high 9's in my Duster with stock blocks, stock cranks, TRW pistons, and 906 heads and 38 years later some guys still can't run 9's with stroker engines and good heads. Makes you think, doesn't it??????????? Yeah, makes me think I should have you tune up my car
Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
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Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world...
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#1822131
05/08/15 09:06 PM
05/08/15 09:06 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506 Az
Crizila
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
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Pretty much 99% of the tech on the Mopar world is antiquated along with the thinking of most Mopar owners. No real positive / polite response to that comment. At my age, I do take it some what personal. That's ok, at my age I am a whole lot less naïve than many ( already made those mistakes). Pretty fine line between technology and BS - at times.
Fastest 300
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Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world...
[Re: BradH]
#1822148
05/08/15 09:27 PM
05/08/15 09:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 403 southern Maryland
keefe
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 403
southern Maryland
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I really could care less about most of this new technology. I like my old stuff and if someone doesn't like the way I spend my money, they can buy my car and do what they want with it. Other than that I guess they can keep their yap shut about it.
Sheldon True That... Keefe, this thread's all about you! --> 906 heads - Check! --> MP .509 cam - Check! --> Super Stock springs - Check! Yes Sir....LOL
1971 duster twister 440, 3380#,509 M/P hyd,906's,full Exhaust,11.06@117.46 1/4,6.95@ 97.03 1/8,1.497 60ft.....
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