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Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world... [Re: jim sciortino] #1819869
05/06/15 12:41 AM
05/06/15 12:41 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,102
Western Md.
skicker Offline
"The Champ"
skicker  Offline
"The Champ"

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,102
Western Md.
Originally Posted By jim sciortino
I am so fed up with the old, I ditched my 3/4 race cam for a .750 race cam and really picked up.


I used to tell them "Imagine how much better it would have ran if you had put the rest of it in" whistling


...FAFO...
Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world... [Re: Hot 340] #1819871
05/06/15 12:44 AM
05/06/15 12:44 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,361
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire Offline
I Live Here
Al_Alguire  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,361
Las Vegas
Pretty much 99% of the tech on the Mopar world is antiquated along with the thinking of most Mopar owners.


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world... [Re: Al_Alguire] #1819883
05/06/15 12:57 AM
05/06/15 12:57 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
A
ahy Offline
master
ahy  Offline
master
A

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
Originally Posted By Al_Alguire
Pretty much 99% of the tech on the Mopar world is antiquated along with the thinking of most Mopar owners.


Hey... my '47 Power Wagon has a 3/4 cam ground by Isky (true it is ground by Isky and true it is advertised as a 3/4 cam). That 231 flattie (original displacement, forget overbore displacement) now will pull till almost 3200 RPM or so. With overbore and head milling it is no doubt over 7.4 CR as well. Power is up from original 90 HP OE to at least 115.

Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world... [Re: Hot 340] #1819936
05/06/15 01:59 AM
05/06/15 01:59 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 13,185
aZLiViN
J
J_BODY Offline
I Live Here
J_BODY  Offline
I Live Here
J

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 13,185
aZLiViN
All I can afford is hand me downs.

Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world... [Re: ahy] #1819945
05/06/15 02:20 AM
05/06/15 02:20 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,684
W. Kentucky
justinp61 Offline
I Live Here
justinp61  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,684
W. Kentucky
Originally Posted By ahy

Hey... my '47 Power Wagon has a 3/4 cam ground by Isky (true it is ground by Isky and true it is advertised as a 3/4 cam). That 231 flattie (original displacement, forget overbore displacement) now will pull till almost 3200 RPM or so. With overbore and head milling it is no doubt over 7.4 CR as well. Power is up from original 90 HP OE to at least 115.


Smokin!

Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world... [Re: Hot 340] #1819953
05/06/15 02:37 AM
05/06/15 02:37 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 13,185
aZLiViN
J
J_BODY Offline
I Live Here
J_BODY  Offline
I Live Here
J

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 13,185
aZLiViN
wish I still had my mullet.....

Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world... [Re: Hot 340] #1819976
05/06/15 07:02 AM
05/06/15 07:02 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,647
aotearoa
rebel Offline
master
rebel  Offline
master

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,647
aotearoa
them; what size engine is that?
me; 340
them; hemi or wedge?

Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world... [Re: J_BODY] #1819983
05/06/15 08:05 AM
05/06/15 08:05 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,210
robin hood country
deaks Offline
master
deaks  Offline
master

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,210
robin hood country
Originally Posted By J_BODY
wish I still had my mullet.....


I wish i still had hair. Lol


69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200#
best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft
best 60ft 1.36
Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world... [Re: Al_Alguire] #1820014
05/06/15 10:04 AM
05/06/15 10:04 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
B
BradH Offline
Taking time off to work on my car
BradH  Offline
Taking time off to work on my car
B

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
Originally Posted By Al_Alguire
Pretty much 99% of the tech on the Mopar world is antiquated along with the thinking of most Mopar owners.

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh!!!! panic

Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world... [Re: Hot 340] #1820026
05/06/15 10:28 AM
05/06/15 10:28 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
1967dartgt Offline
master
1967dartgt  Offline
master

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
You need high velocity ports!


Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads
STR Chassis fabraction
Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world... [Re: 1967dartgt] #1820045
05/06/15 10:58 AM
05/06/15 10:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 176
Sterling Heights, MI
John_T_Brown Offline
member
John_T_Brown  Offline
member

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 176
Sterling Heights, MI
!!THIS!!!
Glad I never listened to any of this crap!

What is the MOPAR Bible anyway?


If it ain't broke fix it anyway!
Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world... [Re: Hot 340] #1820155
05/06/15 12:32 PM
05/06/15 12:32 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 36
tennessee
M
mike54 Offline
member
mike54  Offline
member
M

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 36
tennessee
so many old theories...many of those guys are lost in time...they try to adjust reality to their situation

Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world... [Re: mike54] #1820218
05/06/15 01:49 PM
05/06/15 01:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
D
dogdays Offline
I Live Here
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D

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
I almost forgot my pet peeve, "Ported and polished heads". Even though we have known for 20+ years that putting a mirror finish on an intake port is counterproductive, the term still exists.

Another, "Blueprinted engine". Yeah, right, you've got the blueprints or engineering drawings close by.....

R.

Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world... [Re: 1967dartgt] #1820219
05/06/15 01:51 PM
05/06/15 01:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
B
BradH Offline
Taking time off to work on my car
BradH  Offline
Taking time off to work on my car
B

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
Originally Posted By 1967dartgt
You need high velocity ports!

I guess it depends on who's stating the "old theory"...

Darin Morgan: "Make no mistake, velocity is the primary variable in the design of the entire induction system. I often say that my job title should be Velocity Manager instead of Cylinder Head Designer. Air speed is 10 times more important than raw flow numbers. If you kill the velocity by 10 percent, you will kill almost 40 percent of the wave and ram energy that dynamically fills the cylinder! Raw airflow cfm is an important variable as well; it's just not as important. If you buy a cylinder head that is properly sized for a flow of 400 cfm and your engine is only asking for 350 cfm, you will not only fail to achieve the power potential that the 400 cfm would have given you, you will also fail to reach the power that the 350 cfm would have given you. That's because you killed all the air speed in the induction system. If your engine is asking for 350 cfm and you give it a properly sized cylinder head flowing 350 cfm, your airflow demand is matched and your air speed is matched. You then have a chance of achieving the power potential that 350 cfm can give you."

"How much power potential can 350 cfm give? Well, that depends on a host of variables such as engine speed, overall induction system design, and piston speed. To put it in basic terms, the less restriction you have in the induction system and the more freedom you have to attain increased engine speeds, the easier it is to extract the full potential of the 350 cfm available. Most people don't know how much airflow their engine is actually asking for! This leads to builders wanting to purchase cylinder heads with way more airflow than their engines can possibly use. The end result is a low air-speed induction system that can't properly fill the cylinder by means of dynamic inertia and harmonic supercharging, which means the engine will never reach its full power potential."

"That said, a good cylinder head port design will flow a lot of air for its valve size. The bad news is that a bad port design will flow just as much if not more air! Airflow alone won't tell you if a port design will reach its power potential with 100 percent certainty. Everyone knows that it's easy to compare two 23-degree small-block Chevy heads with 220cc ports. Just pick the one with the most flow, right? That's about all the average builder can do, and in a lot of cases it's hit-and-miss. There are multitudes of ways to achieve that 220ccs. You can have a big pushrod pinch section and a very small bowl area, or a huge bowl area and a super small pushrod pinch area. One 220cc port can actually be choked off at the pushrod, short-turn radius, or throat area, hurting top end power. Another 220cc port design can have too small of a bowl area and too large of a choke and hurt power and torque equally across the entire power range. Having extra airflow isn't always bad, but it can't come at the expense of air speed. The ports must be sized properly. The amount of air Pro Comp Eliminator engines are asking for are exactly how much the heads flow, and that's not a coincidence. People want to make cylinder head design simple, but it's not. It's very complex and interdependent on a massive amount of variables."

Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world... [Re: Hot 340] #1821424
05/07/15 11:34 PM
05/07/15 11:34 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,025
Las Vegas, NV
dodgeboy11 Offline
super stock
dodgeboy11  Offline
super stock

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,025
Las Vegas, NV
An engine needs some backpressure on the exhaust to run right.

Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world... [Re: dodgeboy11] #1821436
05/07/15 11:40 PM
05/07/15 11:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,976
Chilliwack B.C. Canada
R
RUNCHARGER Offline
I Live Here
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I Live Here
R

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,976
Chilliwack B.C. Canada
I really could care less about most of this new technology. I like my old stuff and if someone doesn't like the way I spend my money, they can buy my car and do what they want with it. Other than that I guess they can keep their yap shut about it.

Sheldon


Sheldon
Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world... [Re: RUNCHARGER] #1821458
05/07/15 11:57 PM
05/07/15 11:57 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,036
bean town ....Ca
W
WHITEDART Offline
master
WHITEDART  Offline
master
W

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,036
bean town ....Ca
these heads are done by dick Landy


In the 8s N/A.with Brett miller W8's
5.07 at 133 at 2700lb
Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world... [Re: WHITEDART] #1821492
05/08/15 12:22 AM
05/08/15 12:22 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 561
USA
B
B3RE Offline
mopar
B3RE  Offline
mopar
B

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 561
USA
So, the other day my refrigerator died, so I walk into Lowes and say; "Hey, ya got any 1954 Kelvinators in the back? I used to have one of those back in the day, and in the top part it would make water so cold it would get hard. They were the best" Danged if they don't still have them in the back for the Kelvinator enthusiasts. I bought two, just in case they ever stop making them.


Mike Beachel

I didn't write the rules of math nor create the laws of physics, I am just bound by them.
Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world... [Re: BradH] #1821521
05/08/15 12:50 AM
05/08/15 12:50 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
1967dartgt Offline
master
1967dartgt  Offline
master

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
You
Originally Posted By BradH
Originally Posted By 1967dartgt
You need high velocity ports!

I guess it depends on who's stating the "old theory"...

Darin Morgan: "Make no mistake, velocity is the primary variable in the design of the entire induction system. I often say that my job title should be Velocity Manager instead of Cylinder Head Designer. Air speed is 10 times more important than raw flow numbers. If you kill the velocity by 10 percent, you will kill almost 40 percent of the wave and ram energy that dynamically fills the cylinder! Raw airflow cfm is an important variable as well; it's just not as important. If you buy a cylinder head that is properly sized for a flow of 400 cfm and your engine is only asking for 350 cfm, you will not only fail to achieve the power potential that the 400 cfm would have given you, you will also fail to reach the power that the 350 cfm would have given you. That's because you killed all the air speed in the induction system. If your engine is asking for 350 cfm and you give it a properly sized cylinder head flowing 350 cfm, your airflow demand is matched and your air speed is matched. You then have a chance of achieving the power potential that 350 cfm can give you."

"How much power potential can 350 cfm give? Well, that depends on a host of variables such as engine speed, overall induction system design, and piston speed. To put it in basic terms, the less restriction you have in the induction system and the more freedom you have to attain increased engine speeds, the easier it is to extract the full potential of the 350 cfm available. Most people don't know how much airflow their engine is actually asking for! This leads to builders wanting to purchase cylinder heads with way more airflow than their engines can possibly use. The end result is a low air-speed induction system that can't properly fill the cylinder by means of dynamic inertia and harmonic supercharging, which means the engine will never reach its full power potential."

"That said, a good cylinder head port design will flow a lot of air for its valve size. The bad news is that a bad port design will flow just as much if not more air! Airflow alone won't tell you if a port design will reach its power potential with 100 percent certainty. Everyone knows that it's easy to compare two 23-degree small-block Chevy heads with 220cc ports. Just pick the one with the most flow, right? That's about all the average builder can do, and in a lot of cases it's hit-and-miss. There are multitudes of ways to achieve that 220ccs. You can have a big pushrod pinch section and a very small bowl area, or a huge bowl area and a super small pushrod pinch area. One 220cc port can actually be choked off at the pushrod, short-turn radius, or throat area, hurting top end power. Another 220cc port design can have too small of a bowl area and too large of a choke and hurt power and torque equally across the entire power range. Having extra airflow isn't always bad, but it can't come at the expense of air speed. The ports must be sized properly. The amount of air Pro Comp Eliminator engines are asking for are exactly how much the heads flow, and that's not a coincidence. People want to make cylinder head design simple, but it's not. It's very complex and interdependent on a massive amount of variables."


So why does my pump gas small block go faster then your high velocity big block?


Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads
STR Chassis fabraction
Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world... [Re: Al_Alguire] #1821540
05/08/15 01:05 AM
05/08/15 01:05 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Q
Quicktree Offline
I Win
Quicktree  Offline
I Win
Q

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Originally Posted By Al_Alguire
Pretty much 99% of the tech on the Mopar world is antiquated along with the thinking of most Mopar owners.
the pinion angle thread proves that every time laugh2

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