Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world...
[Re: jim sciortino]
#1819869
05/06/15 12:41 AM
05/06/15 12:41 AM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,112 Western Md.
skicker
"The Champ"
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"The Champ"
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,112
Western Md.
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I am so fed up with the old, I ditched my 3/4 race cam for a .750 race cam and really picked up. I used to tell them "Imagine how much better it would have ran if you had put the rest of it in"
...FAFO...
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Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world...
[Re: Hot 340]
#1819871
05/06/15 12:44 AM
05/06/15 12:44 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,382 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,382
Las Vegas
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Pretty much 99% of the tech on the Mopar world is antiquated along with the thinking of most Mopar owners.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world...
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#1819883
05/06/15 12:57 AM
05/06/15 12:57 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664 IN
ahy
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
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Pretty much 99% of the tech on the Mopar world is antiquated along with the thinking of most Mopar owners. Hey... my '47 Power Wagon has a 3/4 cam ground by Isky (true it is ground by Isky and true it is advertised as a 3/4 cam). That 231 flattie (original displacement, forget overbore displacement) now will pull till almost 3200 RPM or so. With overbore and head milling it is no doubt over 7.4 CR as well. Power is up from original 90 HP OE to at least 115.
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Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world...
[Re: ahy]
#1819945
05/06/15 02:20 AM
05/06/15 02:20 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,686 W. Kentucky
justinp61
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,686
W. Kentucky
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Hey... my '47 Power Wagon has a 3/4 cam ground by Isky (true it is ground by Isky and true it is advertised as a 3/4 cam). That 231 flattie (original displacement, forget overbore displacement) now will pull till almost 3200 RPM or so. With overbore and head milling it is no doubt over 7.4 CR as well. Power is up from original 90 HP OE to at least 115.
Smokin!
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Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world...
[Re: J_BODY]
#1819983
05/06/15 08:05 AM
05/06/15 08:05 AM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,210 robin hood country
deaks
master
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master
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,210
robin hood country
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wish I still had my mullet..... I wish i still had hair. Lol
69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200# best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft best 60ft 1.36
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Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world...
[Re: Hot 340]
#1820026
05/06/15 10:28 AM
05/06/15 10:28 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978 Hilltown Pa
1967dartgt
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
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You need high velocity ports!
Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads STR Chassis fabraction
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Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world...
[Re: 1967dartgt]
#1820219
05/06/15 01:51 PM
05/06/15 01:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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You need high velocity ports! I guess it depends on who's stating the "old theory"... Darin Morgan: "Make no mistake, velocity is the primary variable in the design of the entire induction system. I often say that my job title should be Velocity Manager instead of Cylinder Head Designer. Air speed is 10 times more important than raw flow numbers. If you kill the velocity by 10 percent, you will kill almost 40 percent of the wave and ram energy that dynamically fills the cylinder! Raw airflow cfm is an important variable as well; it's just not as important. If you buy a cylinder head that is properly sized for a flow of 400 cfm and your engine is only asking for 350 cfm, you will not only fail to achieve the power potential that the 400 cfm would have given you, you will also fail to reach the power that the 350 cfm would have given you. That's because you killed all the air speed in the induction system. If your engine is asking for 350 cfm and you give it a properly sized cylinder head flowing 350 cfm, your airflow demand is matched and your air speed is matched. You then have a chance of achieving the power potential that 350 cfm can give you." "How much power potential can 350 cfm give? Well, that depends on a host of variables such as engine speed, overall induction system design, and piston speed. To put it in basic terms, the less restriction you have in the induction system and the more freedom you have to attain increased engine speeds, the easier it is to extract the full potential of the 350 cfm available. Most people don't know how much airflow their engine is actually asking for! This leads to builders wanting to purchase cylinder heads with way more airflow than their engines can possibly use. The end result is a low air-speed induction system that can't properly fill the cylinder by means of dynamic inertia and harmonic supercharging, which means the engine will never reach its full power potential." "That said, a good cylinder head port design will flow a lot of air for its valve size. The bad news is that a bad port design will flow just as much if not more air! Airflow alone won't tell you if a port design will reach its power potential with 100 percent certainty. Everyone knows that it's easy to compare two 23-degree small-block Chevy heads with 220cc ports. Just pick the one with the most flow, right? That's about all the average builder can do, and in a lot of cases it's hit-and-miss. There are multitudes of ways to achieve that 220ccs. You can have a big pushrod pinch section and a very small bowl area, or a huge bowl area and a super small pushrod pinch area. One 220cc port can actually be choked off at the pushrod, short-turn radius, or throat area, hurting top end power. Another 220cc port design can have too small of a bowl area and too large of a choke and hurt power and torque equally across the entire power range. Having extra airflow isn't always bad, but it can't come at the expense of air speed. The ports must be sized properly. The amount of air Pro Comp Eliminator engines are asking for are exactly how much the heads flow, and that's not a coincidence. People want to make cylinder head design simple, but it's not. It's very complex and interdependent on a massive amount of variables."
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Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world...
[Re: dodgeboy11]
#1821436
05/07/15 11:40 PM
05/07/15 11:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,976 Chilliwack B.C. Canada
RUNCHARGER
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,976
Chilliwack B.C. Canada
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I really could care less about most of this new technology. I like my old stuff and if someone doesn't like the way I spend my money, they can buy my car and do what they want with it. Other than that I guess they can keep their yap shut about it.
Sheldon
Sheldon
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Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world...
[Re: RUNCHARGER]
#1821458
05/07/15 11:57 PM
05/07/15 11:57 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,036 bean town ....Ca
WHITEDART
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,036
bean town ....Ca
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these heads are done by dick Landy
In the 8s N/A.with Brett miller W8's 5.07 at 133 at 2700lb
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Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world...
[Re: WHITEDART]
#1821492
05/08/15 12:22 AM
05/08/15 12:22 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 561 USA
B3RE
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 561
USA
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So, the other day my refrigerator died, so I walk into Lowes and say; "Hey, ya got any 1954 Kelvinators in the back? I used to have one of those back in the day, and in the top part it would make water so cold it would get hard. They were the best" Danged if they don't still have them in the back for the Kelvinator enthusiasts. I bought two, just in case they ever stop making them.
Mike Beachel
I didn't write the rules of math nor create the laws of physics, I am just bound by them.
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Re: Old theories die hard in the mopar world...
[Re: BradH]
#1821521
05/08/15 12:50 AM
05/08/15 12:50 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978 Hilltown Pa
1967dartgt
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
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You You need high velocity ports! I guess it depends on who's stating the "old theory"... Darin Morgan: "Make no mistake, velocity is the primary variable in the design of the entire induction system. I often say that my job title should be Velocity Manager instead of Cylinder Head Designer. Air speed is 10 times more important than raw flow numbers. If you kill the velocity by 10 percent, you will kill almost 40 percent of the wave and ram energy that dynamically fills the cylinder! Raw airflow cfm is an important variable as well; it's just not as important. If you buy a cylinder head that is properly sized for a flow of 400 cfm and your engine is only asking for 350 cfm, you will not only fail to achieve the power potential that the 400 cfm would have given you, you will also fail to reach the power that the 350 cfm would have given you. That's because you killed all the air speed in the induction system. If your engine is asking for 350 cfm and you give it a properly sized cylinder head flowing 350 cfm, your airflow demand is matched and your air speed is matched. You then have a chance of achieving the power potential that 350 cfm can give you." "How much power potential can 350 cfm give? Well, that depends on a host of variables such as engine speed, overall induction system design, and piston speed. To put it in basic terms, the less restriction you have in the induction system and the more freedom you have to attain increased engine speeds, the easier it is to extract the full potential of the 350 cfm available. Most people don't know how much airflow their engine is actually asking for! This leads to builders wanting to purchase cylinder heads with way more airflow than their engines can possibly use. The end result is a low air-speed induction system that can't properly fill the cylinder by means of dynamic inertia and harmonic supercharging, which means the engine will never reach its full power potential." "That said, a good cylinder head port design will flow a lot of air for its valve size. The bad news is that a bad port design will flow just as much if not more air! Airflow alone won't tell you if a port design will reach its power potential with 100 percent certainty. Everyone knows that it's easy to compare two 23-degree small-block Chevy heads with 220cc ports. Just pick the one with the most flow, right? That's about all the average builder can do, and in a lot of cases it's hit-and-miss. There are multitudes of ways to achieve that 220ccs. You can have a big pushrod pinch section and a very small bowl area, or a huge bowl area and a super small pushrod pinch area. One 220cc port can actually be choked off at the pushrod, short-turn radius, or throat area, hurting top end power. Another 220cc port design can have too small of a bowl area and too large of a choke and hurt power and torque equally across the entire power range. Having extra airflow isn't always bad, but it can't come at the expense of air speed. The ports must be sized properly. The amount of air Pro Comp Eliminator engines are asking for are exactly how much the heads flow, and that's not a coincidence. People want to make cylinder head design simple, but it's not. It's very complex and interdependent on a massive amount of variables." So why does my pump gas small block go faster then your high velocity big block?
Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads STR Chassis fabraction
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