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Re: My 318 is a dog, Need to make a change !
[Re: MileHighDart]
#1773525
03/10/15 02:10 PM
03/10/15 02:10 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
moper
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
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Quote:
Good suggestions so far, except for the 440 talk, those guys must not have seen the part about the budget.
Anyway, changing the gears to 3;55 or 3:91, probably would help wake it up, but that's not happening. I'd say 90% of my driving is on the highway.
I live in a small town, and although driving around town with 3:91's would be fun, driving around town in Lyons takes about 5 minutes max.
It I want to go do something I either have to hit the highway for 15 miles to Boulder, or 12 miles to Longmont. I'm not going to do that with the engine screaming along at 3000rpm. So until I get an overdrive, steeper gears are out.
I always find it funny when highway (3000rpm) is defined as "screaming". The only reason you say that is you're used to modern 7 speed autos or OD equipped cars that trudge along under 2K at highway speeds. You already have 3.23s. Going to 3.91s will give you a lot more snap, and raise the cruise rpm about 400. In the 80s trucks would cruise at 3500 all day, with trailers and no overdrive. These engines were developed at a time when that was normal, and they were used that way every day. The issue is not entirely the engine - but your own nerves. I'd swap the gears and get a factory high-stall convertor and drvie the snot out of it.
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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Re: My 318 is a dog, Need to make a change !
[Re: moper]
#1773526
03/10/15 04:07 PM
03/10/15 04:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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New gears and highstall converter cost as much as swapping to a 360 magnum and still won't be as fun. Also the new cars last a lot longer, cars used to be considered all washed up by 100,000, now they are considered crap if they don't last at least twice as long... those high RPM do take a tole on the engine.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: My 318 is a dog, Need to make a change !
[Re: HotRodDave]
#1773527
03/11/15 10:38 PM
03/11/15 10:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,798
Lyons, CO
MileHighDart
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,798
Lyons, CO
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Think I'm definitely leaning toward the 5.9 Magnum.
Although I still need to add up the costs. On top of the engine, I'm looking at magnum compatible intake manifold, probably a new carb, headers, electric fuel pump, etc, etc. probably a few things I'm forgetting.
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Re: My 318 is a dog, Need to make a change !
[Re: HotRodDave]
#1773529
03/12/15 03:30 PM
03/12/15 03:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,798
Lyons, CO
MileHighDart
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,798
Lyons, CO
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Quote:
Your carb and exhaust do not need replacing unless they are bad, they will work just fine 
That's good to know. Wasn't sure if my 600cfm Edlebrock carb would be enough for the 5.9
And I've heard something about the early 340 exhaust manifolds not matching up correctly to the ports on the magnum heads. Is this false ?
Here is a quote from Magnumswap.com
"Note: There are varying reports as to whether stock car-style manifolds will bolt up to magnum heads. Throughout our testing we have found a mismatch on the exhaust port openings between Magnum heads and the classic 340HP manifolds."
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Re: My 318 is a dog, Need to make a change !
[Re: MileHighDart]
#1773530
03/12/15 03:46 PM
03/12/15 03:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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There is a little mismatch but not enought to cause any issues, if it was overlapping the other way it would cause a severe restriction.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: My 318 is a dog, Need to make a change !
[Re: MileHighDart]
#1773531
03/12/15 04:05 PM
03/12/15 04:05 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
master
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master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
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Quote:
Think I'm definitely leaning toward the 5.9 Magnum.
Although I still need to add up the costs. On top of the engine, I'm looking at magnum compatible intake manifold, probably a new carb, headers, electric fuel pump, etc, etc. probably a few things I'm forgetting.
I think the magnum is external balanced, so you may need the B&M flexplate, or put weights on the converter. I don't think you can just swap to a 904 magnum converter because it looks like the input shaft spline count changed?
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Re: My 318 is a dog, Need to make a change !
[Re: MileHighDart]
#1773532
03/12/15 07:58 PM
03/12/15 07:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,940
Holly/MI
Dean_Kuzluzski
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,940
Holly/MI
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Sounds like the proverbial "Pandora's Box".
Personally, I'd either overbore to a set of KB167 (or KB399's) OR do a 4" stroker. Keep the "J" heads and all the other cost to go Magnum doesn't rear its ugly head.
I lived in the Broomfield/Arvada/Louisville/Westminster/Lafayette area of CO back in the early 80's. Passed through Lyons several times. Keep the 3.23's and build an efficient pump gas torque motor (meaning highest compression for altitude) that will pull to 5500. Done.
R.I.P.- Gary "Coop" Davis 02/09/68-05/13/04
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Re: My 318 is a dog, Need to make a change !
[Re: Dean_Kuzluzski]
#1773533
03/12/15 09:09 PM
03/12/15 09:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,344
Central TX
roe
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,344
Central TX
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I was leaning heavily towards doing an LA based stroker motor too. Originally planned a 318 based, then a 360 based after the 318 took a dump and was replaced.
But when the chance to swap to a 5.9 mag stroker came up I jumped on it for several reasons. The ability to go roller and not have to worry about wiped lobes was a major factor. Also the advantage of all around better mag heads, better combustion chambers, easier to build for quench, higher comp ratio, flows better... And I really wanted to go with a sepentine belt and the much better magnum alternator. I figured if im going to spend money, why not spend it on the best smallblock combo for me. My cost was only increased by the price of the core. And I didnt want to swap to a BB.
1971 Plymouth Satellite
408/904 8 3/4 3.23 SG
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Re: My 318 is a dog, Need to make a change !
[Re: 451Mopar]
#1773534
03/12/15 09:21 PM
03/12/15 09:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,798
Lyons, CO
MileHighDart
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,798
Lyons, CO
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Quote:
Quote:
Think I'm definitely leaning toward the 5.9 Magnum.
Although I still need to add up the costs. On top of the engine, I'm looking at magnum compatible intake manifold, probably a new carb, headers, electric fuel pump, etc, etc. probably a few things I'm forgetting.
I think the magnum is external balanced, so you may need the B&M flexplate, or put weights on the converter. I don't think you can just swap to a 904 magnum converter because it looks like the input shaft spline count changed?
Your thinking LA-360,
The 5.2 and 5.9 Magnum engines are neutral balance just like a 318. You can absolutely bolt up a 904 to a 5.9magnum, just have to use the magnum flexplate, and your neutral balance 904 - 318 torque converter.
Been reading up on this stuff at magnumswap . com
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Re: My 318 is a dog, Need to make a change !
[Re: MileHighDart]
#1773535
03/12/15 09:30 PM
03/12/15 09:30 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 735
Pa. U.S.A.
moparborn
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 735
Pa. U.S.A.
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So for a magnum swap,you are back to needing the motor and an intake,exhaust plus misc. parts.
Seems like the way to go.
When the funds allow for it,do up a set of heads,add a bigger cam,a little more carb and you are making HP.
Last edited by moparborn; 03/12/15 09:34 PM.
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Re: My 318 is a dog, Need to make a change !
[Re: moparborn]
#1773536
03/12/15 09:55 PM
03/12/15 09:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
dogdays
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
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Why oh why do people get this crap mixed up?
The 5.9 Mag motor is NOT internally balanced. That isn't even worth discussion. But it will work with a 318 or 5.2Mag torque converter if you use the 5.9Mag flexplate, because the imbalance is built into it.
RE: altitude...It's a fact that horsepower decreases by nearly 20 percent going from sea level to 6000 ft.
No amount of tuning can replace the lack of atmospheric pressure that pushes the air into the engine. You flatlanders should also be aware that octane numbers are smaller at altitude because the engines don't need as much to run without knocking. So what is 87 octane at sea level is 85 at the pump a mile up.
With that in mind the advice to turbocharge isn't as far out as it would seem.
The best choice would seem to be either Mag engine, maybe they are becoming more available there. When I lived there a few years ago prices were too darn high.
A cheap alternative would be to advance the cam 4 degrees as suggested above, and stick on a pair of junkyard 302 heads, still probably sitting in that maroon '86 Fifth Avenue in the junkyard. Or maybe you'd prefer the blue one. Or the white one. Spend the extra few dollars and use the Mr Gasket thin head gaskets. The combo will raise your compression by at least half a point, and going from 8.0 to 8.5 can really help.
Don't rebuild the heads, just replace the valve seals and slap'em on and see if that helps.
If you stumble across a pair of Mag heads you should know it is possible to use your intake on them by elongating the bolt holes and making angle spacers. If you have an aftermarket camshaft the odds are at least 10-1 that you already have the right lifters, just need a set of pushrods with holes in the ends.
And for those of you suggesting 308 heads, forget it. They are almost impossible to find and they have the same chambers as the heads he has now. Not worth the effort.
So either do the JY 302 head boogie or else look for a Mag motor that you can swap in, most of the other suggestions will cost more than they're worth, or else put you walking for several months.
One other thing - Distributor advance curves. A properly set up distributor can wake a motor up with no other changes to the motor. That should really be the first thing you do.
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Re: My 318 is a dog, Need to make a change !
[Re: Dean_Kuzluzski]
#1773537
03/13/15 12:13 AM
03/13/15 12:13 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,402
Littleton Colo
Geezer
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,402
Littleton Colo
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Quote:
Sounds like the proverbial "Pandora's Box".
Personally, I'd either overbore to a set of KB167 (or KB399's) OR do a 4" stroker. Keep the "J" heads and all the other cost to go Magnum doesn't rear its ugly head.
I lived in the Broomfield/Arvada/Louisville/Westminster/Lafayette area of CO back in the early 80's. Passed through Lyons several times. Keep the 3.23's and build an efficient pump gas torque motor (meaning highest compression for altitude) that will pull to 5500. Done.
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Re: My 318 is a dog, Need to make a change !
[Re: jeff57]
#1773538
03/13/15 12:44 PM
03/13/15 12:44 PM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,680
Wichita
GY3
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,680
Wichita
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Quote:
318 w/360 heads are pigs. can't make em run! sorry : get a la360 short block and use your cam and top end keep your cost at a minimum.you'll be happy, I did the same thing way back when and it just don't work for fast. 360-you will be happy.  jeff57
I had quite the opposite experience.
Granted, a 360 bottom end will always outperform one with a 318 bottom end, but mine did well for what it was.
Wore out, ringed and bearinged 318 with 360 J heads, M1 intake and Holley 750 3310. With horribly low compression, 3.23 gears and street tires it would do 14's at 95 mph and still get 17 mpg in my '71 Barracuda.
Lowest budget and one of the funnest motors I ever built. Friends still comment on it to this day! (This past weekend in fact!)
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Re: My 318 is a dog, Need to make a change !
[Re: GY3]
#1773539
03/13/15 02:13 PM
03/13/15 02:13 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,228
Colleyville
3hundred
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,228
Colleyville
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Quote:
Quote:
318 w/360 heads are pigs. can't make em run! sorry : get a la360 short block and use your cam and top end keep your cost at a minimum.you'll be happy, I did the same thing way back when and it just don't work for fast. 360-you will be happy. jeff57
I had quite the opposite experience.
Granted, a 360 bottom end will always outperform one with a 318 bottom end, but mine did well for what it was.
Same here, '82 Ramcharger, 318 w/ '82 360 heads, 4 bbl, otherwise stock. Ran MUCH better and beat up on 305 4 bbl Chevy trucks on a regular basis back in the mid '80's. 2¢
Robert
'68 Fury Convertible
'69 300 Convertible
'15 Durango 5.7 Hemi
'16 300 S Hemi
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Re: My 318 is a dog, Need to make a change !
[Re: 3hundred]
#1773540
03/13/15 05:36 PM
03/13/15 05:36 PM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,680
Wichita
GY3
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,680
Wichita
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
318 w/360 heads are pigs. can't make em run! sorry : get a la360 short block and use your cam and top end keep your cost at a minimum.you'll be happy, I did the same thing way back when and it just don't work for fast. 360-you will be happy. jeff57
I had quite the opposite experience.
Granted, a 360 bottom end will always outperform one with a 318 bottom end, but mine did well for what it was.
Same here, '82 Ramcharger, 318 w/ '82 360 heads, 4 bbl, otherwise stock. Ran MUCH better and beat up on 305 4 bbl Chevy trucks on a regular basis back in the mid '80's. 2¢
Robert
I often wonder if, when someone has a combo that didn't work, it turns out that the cam wasn't degreed or a good curve wasn't in the distributor, etc. It's the little things that can really add up!
Seen guys give up on combinations because of the above and were just a few tweaks away from having a stout running combo!
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