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Fuel System Upgrade Recommendations #1755792
02/16/15 01:40 PM
02/16/15 01:40 PM
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Posts: 153
Bradenton, FL
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Benforsp Offline OP
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Hello All,

I am looking to upgrade the fuel system on my car to support the motor. The car is setup with a stock tank (e-body)and the small block 5/16 lines. The new motor is a BB stroker with Indy -1 heads. The car is a street car, but would like it to be compliant for the track. I am open to use the stock lines or a 3/8 stock lines etc. I am more concerned with function the form. The motor is currently carbed but the next step after the fuel system is a EFI conversion, so it will need to be a return system able to support both carb and EFI.Thanks for all the forthcoming advice!

Simon

Re: Fuel System Upgrade Recommendations [Re: Benforsp] #1755793
02/16/15 01:57 PM
02/16/15 01:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,436
Oklahoma City OK
Cudajon Offline
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Oklahoma City OK
I'm sure the recommendation will be for a 1/2" line or better, but just for your info, I put in a new 3/8" line for my build. I left the old line in and it became My return line. It works very good. I run the setup used for the Hemi's were the return line exits from the fuel filter.

Re: Fuel System Upgrade Recommendations [Re: Benforsp] #1755794
02/16/15 02:17 PM
02/16/15 02:17 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Romeo MI
I would suggest a 3/8" min supply and the same for
the return.. if your going with EFI it will need a
good return.. I myself run a 1/2" supply and return
with my set up.. it was carbed but now I run a Holley
multi point EFI and the system is good up to 700 hp..
if I were to go more than that I would need a bigger
pump and injectors.. the rest will work... the issue
with a 3/8 line that I dont like is the bends.. if
you get any kink at all it reduces the flow... the
ID is already 5/16" on a 3/8"
EDIT
Also... if you keep the stock tank I would add a sump
to it... injection doesnt like to have air sucked
in and if you run low in the tank it will suck air
in

Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 02/16/15 02:20 PM.
Re: Fuel System Upgrade Recommendations [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1755795
02/16/15 05:00 PM
02/16/15 05:00 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,195
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Online work
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Quote:

I would suggest a 3/8" min supply and the same for
the return.. if your going with EFI it will need a
good return.. I myself run a 1/2" supply and return
with my set up.. it was carbed but now I run a Holley
multi point EFI and the system is good up to 700 hp..
if I were to go more than that I would need a bigger
pump and injectors.. the rest will work... the issue
with a 3/8 line that I dont like is the bends.. if
you get any kink at all it reduces the flow... the
ID is already 5/16" on a 3/8"
EDIT
Also... if you keep the stock tank I would add a sump
to it... injection doesnt like to have air sucked
in and if you run low in the tank it will suck air
in



Bigger is better when it comes to fuel line sizes, my next race car will have a 5/8 O.D. fuel ine with a 1/2 minumim return line, that is Carbureted, not EFI I'll put on what ever size the fuel stystem, probally Magnafuel, company recommends


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Fuel System Upgrade Recommendations [Re: Cab_Burge] #1755796
02/16/15 07:36 PM
02/16/15 07:36 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 153
Bradenton, FL
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Benforsp Offline OP
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Benforsp  Offline OP
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Bradenton, FL
Seems as though bigger is better as you never know where you will end up. I have noticed there are more hose choices available these days that still meet the track rules. You are not required to buy these stainless braid anymore. Any experience with the push-lock hose? Seems priced right and would think it would be easy to work with? The price difference between -8 and -10 is pretty minimal...Not sure if it is compliant with the new fuels though?

Re: Fuel System Upgrade Recommendations [Re: Benforsp] #1755797
02/16/15 07:44 PM
02/16/15 07:44 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
Quote:

Seems as though bigger is better as you never know where you will end up. I have noticed there are more hose choices available these days that still meet the track rules. You are not required to buy these stainless braid anymore. Any experience with the push-lock hose? Seems priced right and would think it would be easy to work with? The price difference between -8 and -10 is pretty minimal...Not sure if it is compliant with the new fuels though?




I havent used any push lock but I do use the black
braided hose with alum fittings... if you run a hose
that has a Viton liner its good for any fuel... I
use the standard black braided and its good for pump
gas since thats what I run which can have 10% ethanol

Re: Fuel System Upgrade Recommendations [Re: Benforsp] #1755798
02/16/15 10:25 PM
02/16/15 10:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,531
Jacksonville, FL
Chris2581 Offline
master
Chris2581  Offline
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Posts: 6,531
Jacksonville, FL
Quote:

Seems as though bigger is better as you never know where you will end up. I have noticed there are more hose choices available these days that still meet the track rules. You are not required to buy these stainless braid anymore. Any experience with the push-lock hose? Seems priced right and would think it would be easy to work with? The price difference between -8 and -10 is pretty minimal...Not sure if it is compliant with the new fuels though?




I'm using Aeroquip push lok hose and pump gas with no problems.


Nautilus Racing-
We use Superformance gaskets and Turbo Action converters/products.
Re: Fuel System Upgrade Recommendations [Re: Chris2581] #1755799
02/16/15 10:51 PM
02/16/15 10:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
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ahy Offline
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IN
I used the steel lines (3/8 supply, 5/16 return) for my EFI setup. Works great on a healthy 496 with tank in pump. I used short lengths of SS braided line at the tank and engine ends to make the connections.

With EFI, you need pump in tank or a sump to get decent pump life and ability to use all fuel tank capacity. EFI pumps do not like to suck.

Re: Fuel System Upgrade Recommendations [Re: ahy] #1755800
02/17/15 12:16 AM
02/17/15 12:16 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,195
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Online work
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Joined: Aug 2003
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Bend,OR USA
Quote:

I used the steel lines (3/8 supply, 5/16 return)EFI pumps do not like to suck.


I don't think any electric fuel pumps like to suck, they push better than suck usually.


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Fuel System Upgrade Recommendations [Re: Cab_Burge] #1755801
02/17/15 01:26 AM
02/17/15 01:26 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
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Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
Quote:

Quote:

I used the steel lines (3/8 supply, 5/16 return)EFI pumps do not like to suck.


I don't think any electric fuel pumps like to suck, they push better than suck usually.




Pumps dont suck.. they create the negative pressure
so atmospheric pressure can push in the fuel(or oil
like in a oil pump)

Re: Fuel System Upgrade Recommendations [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1755802
02/17/15 04:05 PM
02/17/15 04:05 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 153
Bradenton, FL
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Benforsp Offline OP
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Benforsp  Offline OP
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Posts: 153
Bradenton, FL
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I used the steel lines (3/8 supply, 5/16 return)EFI pumps do not like to suck.


I don't think any electric fuel pumps like to suck, they push better than suck usually.




Pumps dont suck.. they create the negative pressure
so atmospheric pressure can push in the fuel(or oil
like in a oil pump)






So while its in its carb version am I going to be able to pull the fuel out of the tank using the stock pickup.

Re: Fuel System Upgrade Recommendations [Re: Benforsp] #1755803
02/17/15 04:12 PM
02/17/15 04:12 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
MR_P_BODY  Offline
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Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I used the steel lines (3/8 supply, 5/16 return)EFI pumps do not like to suck.


I don't think any electric fuel pumps like to suck, they push better than suck usually.




Pumps dont suck.. they create the negative pressure
so atmospheric pressure can push in the fuel(or oil
like in a oil pump)






So while its in its carb version am I going to be able to pull the fuel out of the tank using the stock pickup.




Yes but if your running more power than stock a larger
pick up would be nice(depending on whats there now)

Re: Fuel System Upgrade Recommendations [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1755804
02/17/15 10:06 PM
02/17/15 10:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
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ahy Offline
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ahy  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I used the steel lines (3/8 supply, 5/16 return)EFI pumps do not like to suck.


I don't think any electric fuel pumps like to suck, they push better than suck usually.




Pumps dont suck.. they create the negative pressure
so atmospheric pressure can push in the fuel(or oil
like in a oil pump)






So while its in its carb version am I going to be able to pull the fuel out of the tank using the stock pickup.




Yes but if your running more power than stock a larger
pick up would be nice(depending on whats there now)






Moderate size carb electric pumps seem to handle the stock pickup OK... many members have good luck. As posted above, a bigger pickup is better. 3/8" minimum, 1/2" preferred. Somebody with more experience will likely post good combos.

EFI pumps just don't work very well or long with the restriction of the stock style pickup. I toasted a couple as have others before going to pump in tank (or sump). Fuel system upgrade for EFI can get involved so maybe best to pick a pump to cover the carb for now and deal with the EFI requirements later.

Re: Fuel System Upgrade Recommendations [Re: ahy] #1755805
02/17/15 10:20 PM
02/17/15 10:20 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 153
Bradenton, FL
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Benforsp Offline OP
member
Benforsp  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 153
Bradenton, FL
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I used the steel lines (3/8 supply, 5/16 return)EFI pumps do not like to suck.


I don't think any electric fuel pumps like to suck, they push better than suck usually.




Pumps dont suck.. they create the negative pressure
so atmospheric pressure can push in the fuel(or oil
like in a oil pump)






So while its in its carb version am I going to be able to pull the fuel out of the tank using the stock pickup.




Yes but if your running more power than stock a larger
pick up would be nice(depending on whats there now)






Moderate size carb electric pumps seem to handle the stock pickup OK... many members have good luck. As posted above, a bigger pickup is better. 3/8" minimum, 1/2" preferred. Somebody with more experience will likely post good combos.

EFI pumps just don't work very well or long with the restriction of the stock style pickup. I toasted a couple as have others before going to pump in tank (or sump). Fuel system upgrade for EFI can get involved so maybe best to pick a pump to cover the carb for now and deal with the EFI requirements later.




That is the plan...the carb pump will be something to get me by and will definetly go with an in tank solution for EFI (Phantom Maybe?) but I would like the lines and anything I can put on it to be compatible so I don't have to duplicate anything. That's why I want the line sizing correct etc. The current pickup is a replacement and it's 3/8". I just want to make sure it will do for now. All the suggestions are great. I have flirted with E-85 as it is coming to this area slowly so I am really only looking to minimize any possible "redo" work. Hopefully, the push lock stuff will work and a simple pump for now.

Re: Fuel System Upgrade Recommendations [Re: Benforsp] #1755806
02/18/15 12:23 AM
02/18/15 12:23 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
That is the plan...the carb pump will be something to get me by and will definetly go with an in tank solution for EFI (Phantom Maybe?) but I would like the lines and anything I can put on it to be compatible so I don't have to duplicate anything. That's why I want the line sizing correct etc. The current pickup is a replacement and it's 3/8". I just want to make sure it will do for now. All the suggestions are great. I have flirted with E-85 as it is coming to this area slowly so I am really only looking to minimize any possible "redo" work. Hopefully, the push lock stuff will work and a simple pump for now.




You can do a little math work and a flow test to
see if your currant set up will work for carb or EFI..
you need .5 PPH of fuel per HP so if you do a flow
test you can find out if you have enough line or
need more flow rate... you can use a base fuel for
your measurements

Re: Fuel System Upgrade Recommendations [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1755807
02/18/15 02:14 AM
02/18/15 02:14 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
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ahy Offline
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The stock replacement steel lines (3/8" supply, 5/16" return) work great on the pressure side of my EFI setup. Mine is a ~550 HP 496 with pump rated for 700 HP. Would probably work fine with higher HP as long as the pump has an un-restricted feed (pump in tank or sump with -10 lines or bigger feeding the high pressure pump inlet).

Re: Fuel System Upgrade Recommendations [Re: ahy] #1755808
02/18/15 12:35 PM
02/18/15 12:35 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 153
Bradenton, FL
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Benforsp Offline OP
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Bradenton, FL
Quote:

The stock replacement steel lines (3/8" supply, 5/16" return) work great on the pressure side of my EFI setup. Mine is a ~550 HP 496 with pump rated for 700 HP. Would probably work fine with higher HP as long as the pump has an un-restricted feed (pump in tank or sump with -10 lines or bigger feeding the high pressure pump inlet).




My concern is I have the smaller lines and didn't think they would be sufficient. I figured I would need to upgrade and looking at the cost of the prebent stainless lines they are about the same cost as going with larger push-lock or stainless braid. I figured why not upgrade for the future?

Re: Fuel System Upgrade Recommendations [Re: Benforsp] #1755809
02/18/15 01:10 PM
02/18/15 01:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,178
Indy
FlyFish Offline
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Indy
I have 1/2" push lock hose on my car from regulator to carb and it works great (1/2" hard line from cell to regulator). It is a bit of a pain to "push" the fittings into the hose, but after the trial and error approach, I found that putting the end of the hose in boiling water for 15-30 seconds then jamming it on the fitting worked best.

My car is on e85 if that helps.


67 Barracuda street car, 408, e85, 1.38 60', 6.44 @105.9 in the 1/8 mile, 10.19 @130.5 in the 1/4...so far....
Re: Fuel System Upgrade Recommendations [Re: FlyFish] #1755810
02/18/15 03:06 PM
02/18/15 03:06 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 153
Bradenton, FL
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Benforsp Offline OP
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Bradenton, FL
Quote:

I have 1/2" push lock hose on my car from regulator to carb and it works great (1/2" hard line from cell to regulator). It is a bit of a pain to "push" the fittings into the hose, but after the trial and error approach, I found that putting the end of the hose in boiling water for 15-30 seconds then jamming it on the fitting worked best.

My car is on e85 if that helps.




Flyfish,

What brand are you using for push-lock hose? Do they give you any trouble at the track?

Re: Fuel System Upgrade Recommendations [Re: Benforsp] #1755811
02/18/15 09:21 PM
02/18/15 09:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 961
Carson City, Nevada
RobbMc Offline
super stock
RobbMc  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 961
Carson City, Nevada
Our PowerSurge would be ideal. No need to change the fuel lines or the fuel tank. Can be used with carbs or FI by changing the regulator:

http://www.robbmcperformance.com/products/powersurge.html


Designing a better mouse trap always seems to lead to the evolution of smarter mice. www.robbmcperformance.com
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