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Re: If you were to build a Big Block Wedge...... [Re: Airwoofer] #1641078
07/02/14 07:45 PM
07/02/14 07:45 PM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 503
Idaho
1320Dart Offline OP
mopar
1320Dart  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: May 2014
Posts: 503
Idaho
Quote:

That's why I pulled the 499 and am putting in the 540 that only has 700 valve lift. I street drive a bit also and the radiator for the 540 will be bigger than the little one the 499 uses. Next up after I see how the 540 runs with the Indy R2 cam and 13.9 (C-16 still) it will get lower compression and a milder cam so I can run it on pump swill. Will freshen up the 499 so I can trust it (came with the KOS car, but is supposed to be fresh) and get the header dents fixed. That motor on spray sent the 3150# car down the track in low to flat 8s and 175 MPH - back in the day.

So back to the OP, you have to decide what it is you want to do. The parts will follow that decision and the compromises you make. To me, fuel is a key thing to consider but if only for the track C-16 isn't that big a hassle, just $13.50 per gallon.




My last motor ran C-16.
Here in Idaho I was paying over $17 a gallon. So my next motor will be given alcohol. Even at twice the amount used, it's still cheaper than C-16


Greg

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Cost is irrelevant, making memories is far more valuable!biggrin
Re: If you were to build a Big Block Wedge...... [Re: 1320Dart] #1641079
07/02/14 11:47 PM
07/02/14 11:47 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,286
Hamilton,Ont
7
72chrgrally Offline
top fuel
72chrgrally  Offline
top fuel
7

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,286
Hamilton,Ont
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

If you were to build a Big Block Wedge to go drag racing, What would you build, and how?




Low deck alloy block, B1 originals, with a gear driven procharger. Cubic inch would depend on pound per cube weight penalty when I win the lottery.

Steve




I've got an F1R ProCharger. Its not enough for a 572.
I've only had it for mocking up on a small block. I'll be getting rid of it and the small block cog kit.




That F1R would probably be real happy on my 432, and it's a legal blower for the class........


Photobucket sucks
Re: If you were to build a Big Block Wedge...... [Re: 72chrgrally] #1641080
07/03/14 12:38 AM
07/03/14 12:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,448
Phoenix, AZ
M
MoparBilly Offline
master
MoparBilly  Offline
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M

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,448
Phoenix, AZ
I didn't give this thread much of a chance when it started, but this has been a pretty good discussion. When I started playing this game 30 years ago, without the internet, and mopar specific magazines. I went to the track, and talked to the Mopar guys who were running twelves, and the ones running elevens, and rare few in the tens, and the rare few who's street cars would run 13's and then go high elevens with this crazy stuff called nitrous. I didn't just talk to the successful ones, I talked to the guys who broke often as well... some of those conversations were the most enlightening!

All these years later, it's the same. I've learned far more from watching guys on this board over a long period of time, than I have from just asking a specific question. Al is gold mine of info because he's not afraid to repurpose a given combo and really push the parameters of the design beyond the little box that common mopar knowledge is willing to accept.

As was stated earlier, 8's are fairly easy to attain with the common Mopar combo's if you're under 3k in weight. I've been there with an Edelbrock RPM, flat tappet, 440...and more nitrous than was likely prudent. I currently have an Indy Maxx low deck at 512 inches with Indy -1s, and I've pretty much decided that's it for me. I see many guys get over their heads chasing 7's with mopar stuff, and while it's attainable, I'm not willing to pay that price...The initial investment, or the time and money in upkeep.


"Livin' in a powder keg and givin' off sparks" 4 Street cars, 5 Race engines
Re: If you were to build a Big Block Wedge...... [Re: MoparBilly] #1641081
07/03/14 03:11 AM
07/03/14 03:11 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,010
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline
I Live Here
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,010
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
For a budget build, I would try B1 heads, 512 lowdeck, 650 Comp flat tappet cam. If the newer Beehive springs will allow decent revs , it out to make some good power reasonably priced, and low maintenance to boot.
If I had a KB block to work with, same heads and cam, but 572 cubes to keep the revs down with the flat tappet cam.
Either engine combo could be upgraded to roller stuff down the road, as budget allows.

Last edited by gregsdart; 07/03/14 03:16 AM.

8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: If you were to build a Big Block Wedge...... [Re: 1320Dart] #1641082
07/03/14 09:39 AM
07/03/14 09:39 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
If 8's are your goal I'd look at boost. In the long run it will be cheaper and you'll have something you can putt around town in. Like cab said earlier, do the biggest CID you can, top it off w/ the best heads you can afford, then add about 14-16lbs of boost. If you are good at fabbing exhaust go turbo, if not look into a centrif blower unit.


[IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/pui5j.jpg[/IMG]
Coming soon!!!!
Re: If you were to build a Big Block Wedge...... [Re: 72chrgrally] #1641083
07/03/14 09:44 AM
07/03/14 09:44 AM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 503
Idaho
1320Dart Offline OP
mopar
1320Dart  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: May 2014
Posts: 503
Idaho
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

If you were to build a Big Block Wedge to go drag racing, What would you build, and how?




Low deck alloy block, B1 originals, with a gear driven procharger. Cubic inch would depend on pound per cube weight penalty when I win the lottery.

Steve




I've got an F1R ProCharger. Its not enough for a 572.
I've only had it for mocking up on a small block. I'll be getting rid of it and the small block cog kit.




That F1R would probably be real happy on my 432, and it's a legal blower for the class........




I've got it up for sale


Greg

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Cost is irrelevant, making memories is far more valuable!biggrin
Re: If you were to build a Big Block Wedge...... [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1641084
07/03/14 09:49 AM
07/03/14 09:49 AM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 503
Idaho
1320Dart Offline OP
mopar
1320Dart  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: May 2014
Posts: 503
Idaho
Quote:

If 8's are your goal I'd look at boost. In the long run it will be cheaper and you'll have something you can putt around town in. Like cab said earlier, do the biggest CID you can, top it off w/ the best heads you can afford, then add about 14-16lbs of boost. If you are good at fabbing exhaust go turbo, if not look into a centrif blower unit.




I've got an F1R ProCharger. But its too small for a 572 or 556.

I had bought my B1's with the hope of super charging them at some point. I love blower cars. I just don't like the parts they seem to eat.


Greg

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Cost is irrelevant, making memories is far more valuable!biggrin
Re: If you were to build a Big Block Wedge...... [Re: Al_Alguire] #1641085
07/03/14 10:37 AM
07/03/14 10:37 AM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 503
Idaho
1320Dart Offline OP
mopar
1320Dart  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: May 2014
Posts: 503
Idaho
Quote:

Well still kinda open ended. I went 9.04 at 150 in a 3470lb 67 Valiant with a set of originals that flowed 415-420cfm with a stock block, Ohio crank, GRP rods, Indy oil pump and Bullet roller with 286/290 on a 113lsa with life at @800", unported single 4 intake and a out of the box Holley Dominator. Was a fairly budget minded build and in a 2800lb ish car would certainly run 8's with no issues. It was a father son project when my kid was still playing HS baseball so racing time was limited. We built the engine to get an idea on what would work well with plans to upgrade some components later to better pieces and more power. Made some cam and carb changes along the way and had a good handle on where to go with it. Ended up deciding to go super class racing instead after baseball and eventually sold the car. BTW if anyone in the Lincoln, NE area knows the car I would like try and get it back.

My point being some sort of budget it required to make some decisions on what direction lead. My advice is buy the best components you can afford. Running 8's at 2800lbbs is not rocket science. 900 hp will get you in the 8's easily. Your heads can support 950 relatively easy but if you want more you will either need to spin it harder or look for better heads. 950 in a great working car at sea level will net you sub 8.50 times. In Boise maybe 8.60's. FWIW my Barracuda at 2975 went 155 in Boise at the S/ST index of 11.15




Would you mind sharing, or PM me, some build secrets of the motor you and your kid ran in your 67 Valiant?


Greg

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Cost is irrelevant, making memories is far more valuable!biggrin
Re: If you were to build a Big Block Wedge...... [Re: 1320Dart] #1641086
07/08/14 11:33 AM
07/08/14 11:33 AM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 503
Idaho
1320Dart Offline OP
mopar
1320Dart  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: May 2014
Posts: 503
Idaho
UPDATE-
I bought a set R&R Pro billet aluminum rods. Now I wonder how much clearance ill have between the 54mm cam and rod. R&R says that rod absolutely cannot be modified in any way. With out the block I can't even mock it up to check the clearance. So I still don't know if I'm putting a 556ci together or a 572.


Greg

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Cost is irrelevant, making memories is far more valuable!biggrin
Re: If you were to build a Big Block Wedge...... [Re: 1320Dart] #1641087
07/08/14 11:54 AM
07/08/14 11:54 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 659
Tampa Fl
K
kens avenger Offline
mopar addict
kens avenger  Offline
mopar addict
K

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 659
Tampa Fl
I see not much has changed around here....
you might look into going with 2.350 intake valves in the B1 Org's.

PM me if you want to find out some more on B1's.last time i said some stuff on here all the no it alls gave me crap..LOL..
and i see it in this thread (no change) don't get me wrong there is some good here.. but most of the good has left ..


Remember in here some don't think you should have a Opinion.. sad fact..
Re: If you were to build a Big Block Wedge...... [Re: Airwoofer] #1641088
07/09/14 09:42 AM
07/09/14 09:42 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,010
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline
I Live Here
gregsdart  Offline
I Live Here

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Posts: 10,010
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
Could you be more specific on your goals? There is a world of difference between 8.00s at 3,000 lbs or 8.90s at 2500 lbs. Like from 700 hp to over 1,000 hp. what do you think the car will weigh? Are you looking to run high 8s or 8.0s?
Since you are committed to the KB and the rods, it kinda boils down to how much you want to spend on the rest, and what you consider a good interval between stuff like spring changes, tear down, etc. A mild rate of lift roller cam and very good valve springs that is easy on parts ought to put you into the mid 8s with out a problem at 2500 lbs, for example, and not need much attention.

Last edited by gregsdart; 07/09/14 09:49 AM.
Re: If you were to build a Big Block Wedge...... [Re: gregsdart] #1641089
07/09/14 09:54 AM
07/09/14 09:54 AM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 503
Idaho
1320Dart Offline OP
mopar
1320Dart  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: May 2014
Posts: 503
Idaho
Quote:

Could you be more specific on your goals? There is a world of difference between 8.00s at 3,000 lbs or 8.90s at 2500 lbs. Like from 700 hp to over 1,000 hp. what do you think the car will weigh? Are you looking to run high 8s or 8.0s?




my Problem Child (my Dart) with me and a Mega-Block, it weighs 2836.
I have a KB on order. So it will weigh different. BTW I will be switching over from C-16 to carbureted alcohol as well.


Greg

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Cost is irrelevant, making memories is far more valuable!biggrin
Re: If you were to build a Big Block Wedge...... [Re: 1320Dart] #1641090
07/09/14 10:13 AM
07/09/14 10:13 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,010
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline
I Live Here
gregsdart  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,010
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
It should weigh about 2700 then. 850s to 8.60s is vey reachable, only needing about 850 hp. I have run 8.70s with much poorer heads and 528 cubes at 3040 lbs, alcohol injected single throttle body. Figure at that performance level, it takes about 35 hp per tenth of ET reduction. Will you be satisfied with 8.50s? That could be done with a very low maintenance motor.


8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: If you were to build a Big Block Wedge...... [Re: gregsdart] #1641091
07/09/14 10:36 AM
07/09/14 10:36 AM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 503
Idaho
1320Dart Offline OP
mopar
1320Dart  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: May 2014
Posts: 503
Idaho
Quote:

It should weigh about 2700 then. 850s to 8.60s is vey reachable, only needing about 850 hp. I have run 8.70s with much poorer heads and 528 cubes at 3040 lbs, alcohol injected single throttle body. Figure at that performance level, it takes about 35 hp per tenth of ET reduction. Will you be satisfied with 8.50s? That could be done with a very low maintenance motor.




Honestly I was shooting for 8.10 to 8.20 for all out. But back it off to bracket race and be consistent. But yes, and as maintenance free as possible.
Our track is at 2690 to 2720 above sea level. If that helps.


Greg

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Cost is irrelevant, making memories is far more valuable!biggrin
Re: If you were to build a Big Block Wedge...... [Re: 1320Dart] #1641092
07/09/14 11:35 AM
07/09/14 11:35 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,010
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline
I Live Here
gregsdart  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,010
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
My weather station calculator says it would take about 1040 dyno hp to run in that range at a DA of roughly 3,000 ft. That makes it a pretty serious motor build. Al Alguire is who I would go to for a decent recipe, he has done it.


8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: If you were to build a Big Block Wedge...... [Re: gregsdart] #1641093
07/09/14 11:47 AM
07/09/14 11:47 AM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 503
Idaho
1320Dart Offline OP
mopar
1320Dart  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: May 2014
Posts: 503
Idaho
Quote:

My weather station calculator says it would take about 1040 dyno hp to run in that range at a DA of roughly 3,000 ft. That makes it a pretty serious motor build. Al Alguire is who I would go to for a decent recipe, he has done it.




Thank you for all the advice!
Yeah I've actually seen his car out at our track. Seems to run really darn strong!


Greg

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Cost is irrelevant, making memories is far more valuable!biggrin
Re: If you were to build a Big Block Wedge...... [Re: 1320Dart] #1641094
07/09/14 11:48 AM
07/09/14 11:48 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,928
NC
440Jim Offline
I Live Here
440Jim  Offline
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NC
Quote:

I have a KB on order.


Has KB shipped your block yet? When I talked to them on July 1, it sounded like they would be finished machining your block that week. I plan to check back on Friday (7/11) for the status on mine.

Re: If you were to build a Big Block Wedge...... [Re: 440Jim] #1641095
07/09/14 12:04 PM
07/09/14 12:04 PM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 503
Idaho
1320Dart Offline OP
mopar
1320Dart  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: May 2014
Posts: 503
Idaho
Quote:

Quote:

I have a KB on order.


Has KB shipped your block yet? When I talked to them on July 1, it sounded like they would be finished machining your block that week. I plan to check back on Friday (7/11) for the status on mine.




Check the latest post on-
"Keith Black Aluminum block ordering experience" Ken replied on there


Greg

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Cost is irrelevant, making memories is far more valuable!biggrin
Re: If you were to build a Big Block Wedge...... [Re: 1320Dart] #1641096
07/09/14 01:48 PM
07/09/14 01:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,368
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire Online laugh2
I Live Here
Al_Alguire  Online laugh2
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,368
Las Vegas
Looks like you are getting close on the block for sure. You will definitely loose quite a bit of weight on the nose for sure. All the megablocks I have weighed were 305-317lbs. My KB low deck was 127, so you will see a solid 175lb loss I would imagine. That is a TON of weight off the nose for sure.

My log book shows Firebirds elevation at 2695, a few hundred more than here in Vegas. Everytime I have run there the DA was 3200-4800' and that was at the division race which is one of your first races of the year. So you would still need a fair amount of steam to run 8.0's up there even at 2600lb. One thing some of the Midwest and East coast guys don't get is we have no barometer at these tracks. While Boise is a tad better than most as we go up in altitude the TRUE barometer is very low. This will kill power in a hurry. Boise was pretty good when I was there with the true barometer being in the low 27's. As we say here in Vegas if we see a 28.00 on the barometer it is a banner day and you will be fast, well for here anyway.

Re: If you were to build a Big Block Wedge...... [Re: Al_Alguire] #1641097
07/09/14 02:13 PM
07/09/14 02:13 PM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 503
Idaho
1320Dart Offline OP
mopar
1320Dart  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: May 2014
Posts: 503
Idaho
Quote:

Looks like you are getting close on the block for sure. You will definitely loose quite a bit of weight on the nose for sure. All the megablocks I have weighed were 305-317lbs. My KB low deck was 127, so you will see a solid 175lb loss I would imagine. That is a TON of weight off the nose for sure.

My log book shows Firebirds elevation at 2695, a few hundred more than here in Vegas. Everytime I have run there the DA was 3200-4800' and that was at the division race which is one of your first races of the year. So you would still need a fair amount of steam to run 8.0's up there even at 2600lb. One thing some of the Midwest and East coast guys don't get is we have no barometer at these tracks. While Boise is a tad better than most as we go up in altitude the TRUE barometer is very low. This will kill power in a hurry. Boise was pretty good when I was there with the true barometer being in the low 27's. As we say here in Vegas if we see a 28.00 on the barometer it is a banner day and you will be fast, well for here anyway.




Wow I figured I'd loose 100 to 125lbs at the most!
Last weekend here at our Mopar race, it was so damn hot. I was checking the local barometer(about 5 miles away). It was in the low 29's around mid to late morning.


Greg

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Cost is irrelevant, making memories is far more valuable!biggrin
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