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A NEW alignment question! #1464847
07/08/13 03:50 PM 07/08/13 03:50 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,822
Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda Offline OP
Too Many Posts
Pacnorthcuda  Offline OP
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,822
Kirkland, Washington
At least I think its new: More and more alignment equipment is using degrees and minutes for specing toe during an alignment. Thats good because the angle doesnt change with the diameter of the wheel / tire. BUT...determining the desired angle doesnt see to be so simple.

Does anybody know what 1/16" - 1/8" equates to for a 26 inch tire on a 15 inch rim?

So far I THINK 14 minutes or about 0.25 of a degree equates to 1/16"

Anybody gone down this road?

Re: A NEW alignment question! [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #1464848
07/08/13 10:08 PM 07/08/13 10:08 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,822
Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda Offline OP
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Pacnorthcuda  Offline OP
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Posts: 21,822
Kirkland, Washington
Nobody has dealt with toe being expressed as degrees instead of inches?
Re: A NEW alignment question! [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #1464849
07/08/13 11:05 PM 07/08/13 11:05 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 549
WV
J
JohnH Offline
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Posts: 549
WV
A good toe in will be about 1/4" toe in.. The reason for the toe in is that centrifugal force will put it at zero when you are going down the road.. Don't know about the degrees..
Re: A NEW alignment question! [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #1464850
07/08/13 11:24 PM 07/08/13 11:24 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,377
Ohio
Todd Offline
pro stock
Todd  Offline
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Posts: 1,377
Ohio
I've always used degrees instead of inches when I do alignments. I guess its what I got used to years ago. But anyway, every 1/32 of an inch of toe is 0.12 degrees or 7 minutes. Should get you close.
Edit..I just looked it up on my machine at work and 1/16 =.13°

Last edited by Todd; 07/09/13 09:05 AM.
Re: A NEW alignment question! [Re: Todd] #1464851
07/09/13 01:02 AM 07/09/13 01:02 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 742
Oak Harbor, WA
W
Wicked49670dart Offline
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 742
Oak Harbor, WA
I do all of my alignments in degree's also, pretty sure 1/16 is .06, I'll check tomorrow at work....Matt

70 Dart 3400 496 New Best 6.15@110.37 660ft, 9.76@135 with a 1.34 60ft
Re: A NEW alignment question! [Re: Wicked49670dart] #1464852
07/09/13 04:40 AM 07/09/13 04:40 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,301
colorado
A
a12superbee Offline
master
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Posts: 6,301
colorado
Could someone explain what you mean by 'minutes'? Please.

I can't afford this. mark
Re: A NEW alignment question! [Re: a12superbee] #1464853
07/09/13 09:12 AM 07/09/13 09:12 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,377
Ohio
Todd Offline
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Ohio
For every degree there are 10 minutes. So .5 minutes is 1/2 degree

Re: A NEW alignment question! [Re: Todd] #1464854
07/09/13 09:58 AM 07/09/13 09:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,212
Minn
S
SportF Offline
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Posts: 1,212
Minn
Actually for every degree there is 60 minutes, for every minute there is 60 seconds. And the tire diameter affects the toe in when measured at the tread. A 1/4 inch toe on a 20" tire would be far greater degrees than a 1/4 inch toe on a 28 inch tire. Which is why degrees is a better way to measure toe, its consistant no matter the tire size.
Re: A NEW alignment question! [Re: Todd] #1464855
07/09/13 10:08 AM 07/09/13 10:08 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,377
Ohio
Todd Offline
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Todd  Offline
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Ohio
Quote:

For every degree there are 10 minutes. So .5 minutes is 1/2 degree


DUH...Your right I was thinking of tenths...Not enough coffee.

Re: A NEW alignment question! [Re: Todd] #1464856
07/09/13 11:07 AM 07/09/13 11:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,212
Minn
S
SportF Offline
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Minn
Well, when I read your post I had to think about it, even though I used to work with minutes and seconds everyday. So, I had another cup of starting fluid myself before I was sure. Whatever, it is obvious you know what you are talking about.
Re: A NEW alignment question! [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #1464857
07/09/13 04:03 PM 07/09/13 04:03 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,157
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,157
Bend,OR USA
I like to use 1/16 inch Toe In on all my Hi Po older cars with stock front ends I have the alignment shop set that with the front of the car raised up one inch above the sitting hieghts on the rack to simulate actual driving conditions under normal power Radial tires don't need as much toe in as the original OEM bias ply tires did back in the day

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: A NEW alignment question! [Re: Cab_Burge] #1464858
07/09/13 05:57 PM 07/09/13 05:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 892
MA
steve70 Offline
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MA
I just drew it out on MasterCam and you're very close, .25 degree comes out to .0568 inches or just a nick under 1/16

1970 Challenger T/A 4 speed
Re: A NEW alignment question! [Re: steve70] #1464859
07/13/13 01:11 AM 07/13/13 01:11 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 606
Montana
Y
Yancy Derringer Offline
mopar
Yancy Derringer  Offline
mopar
Y

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 606
Montana
I've never understood why toe was not ALWAYS in degrees. The size of the front tires, indeed, whether you are the proper height inline with the spindle center will change toe ANGLE even though the inch measurement is "the same."
Re: A NEW alignment question! [Re: Yancy Derringer] #1464860
07/13/13 03:12 AM 07/13/13 03:12 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,301
colorado
A
a12superbee Offline
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Posts: 6,301
colorado
I almost missed this thread, thanks for the explanation of minutes.
I've never heard of minutes and seconds used for any measurement other than time. Tick. Tock.

I can't afford this. mark
Re: A NEW alignment question! [Re: a12superbee] #1464861
07/16/13 03:12 AM 07/16/13 03:12 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 606
Montana
Y
Yancy Derringer Offline
mopar
Yancy Derringer  Offline
mopar
Y

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 606
Montana
Quote:

I almost missed this thread, thanks for the explanation of minutes.
I've never heard of minutes and seconds used for any measurement other than time. Tick. Tock.



I'll bet you have, just didn't realize.

Used in Navigation, depending on the "format" of the figures

Used in expression of bullet path (I'm sure you've heard the term "minute of angle" re: shooting)

Here's about KREM channel 2 tower location in Spokane:

47° 35′ 40.9″ N, 117° 17′ 56.8″ W

The first is degrees of elevation from the equator, which is zero degrees, 90 being the N pole, so the tower (near Spokane) is 47 degrees, 35 MINUTES, and 40.9 seconds toward the N from the equator.

The second half, is east - west, so 117 degrees 17 MINUTES and 56.8 seconds west of the 0 degree longitude point on earth which is called the Greenwich meridian. This is an arbitrary point on earth that is designated as being the zero degree point, and dates back to the early days of navigation, Europe being the "important" area at the time.

Google longitude, latitude, "prime meridian," "Greenwich Meridian" and have a day.
Re: A NEW alignment question! [Re: JohnH] #1464862
07/16/13 03:32 AM 07/16/13 03:32 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,099
Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah Offline
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Rogue River, OR
Quote:

A good toe in will be about 1/4" toe in.. The reason for the toe in is that centrifugal force will put it at zero when you are going down the road.. Don't know about the degrees..



1/4" toe will KILL a set of tires. 1/8" MAX toe in.

Re: A NEW alignment question! [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #1464863
07/16/13 11:33 AM 07/16/13 11:33 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,752
Jefferson State
S
srt Offline
ESYC
srt  Offline
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S

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,752
Jefferson State
for an easy conversion to decimal degrees
divide minutes by 60 and add to degrees 2*45' = 45/60 =.75 + 2 = 2.75*

To change decimal degrees to d*min' multiply the decimal portion by 60 and result is minutes then write the degrees.

2.5* = 0.5* x 60 = 30' + 2* = 2*30'

By converting to decimal degrees and back converting back to minutes it makes it easier to determine how much angle needs to be adjusted.

For examples above
2.5* - 2.75* = (-)0.25*, then multiply 0.25* x 60 (to convert to minutes) or (-)15'.
One can also include seconds if needed, or desired, but this takes additional steps that I could explain if anyone needs to know pm me.
Re: A NEW alignment question! [Re: Yancy Derringer] #1464864
07/16/13 11:39 AM 07/16/13 11:39 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,388
Pikes Peak Country
T
TC@HP2 Offline
master
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Pikes Peak Country
Quote:

I've never understood why toe was not ALWAYS in degrees.



Cuz when your pitted out in the south forty where the track lights don't shine, you wacked the lead car in the last heat race, and bent a tie rod and you need to get it replaced and buttoned back up before the main, and you've got a flashlight and your working in the dirt, you whip out the tape measure and jack stands and get to it.
Re: A NEW alignment question! [Re: TC@HP2] #1464865
07/18/13 01:02 AM 07/18/13 01:02 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 606
Montana
Y
Yancy Derringer Offline
mopar
Yancy Derringer  Offline
mopar
Y

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 606
Montana
Quote:

Quote:

I've never understood why toe was not ALWAYS in degrees.



Cuz when your pitted out in the south forty where the track lights don't shine,



I can assure that when Ma "wrote the books," there was no thought of you being in that condition
Re: A NEW alignment question! [Re: Jeremiah] #1464866
07/18/13 11:40 AM 07/18/13 11:40 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,561
Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick Offline
Still wishing...
Twostick  Offline
Still wishing...

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,561
Downtown Roebuck Ont
Quote:

Quote:

A good toe in will be about 1/4" toe in.. The reason for the toe in is that centrifugal force will put it at zero when you are going down the road.. Don't know about the degrees..



1/4" toe will KILL a set of tires. 1/8" MAX toe in.



He's in tire sales...

Kevin
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